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VY: Okay, okay. So let's talk about your early years. You'd already mentioned, so you were born in 1941 and you noted that you were born really, really close to when Pearl Harbor was attacked. So just to sort of place things in chronological order in history, I just wanted to say, so you were born in Tacoma in 1941, the attack on Pearl Harbor happened in December of that year. And then Executive Order 9066 was signed in February of 1942, and then the Pinedale Assembly Center, which is located in Fresno, California, opened in May and then Tule Lake concentration camp, which is located in Newell, California, just south of the Oregon border, also opened in May. So that's kind of the backdrop of what was going on right when you were born. So with that in mind, what happened to your family during World War II, and were you forced to leave Tacoma?

MM: Apparently so. I don't remember any of the moving, or anything like that. I have some memories of camp, as we called it, but I don't remember anything about the move.

VY: Did your parents ever talk about it, like talk about where you were sent right after leaving Tacoma?

MM: No, that's why I didn't... after I actually started learning a few things about it, I realized that actually, most people were moved to other places before they settled into their permanent, where they were actually... I mean, I always thought that we always just stayed at Tule Lake, but I do think we were somewhere else before, and then we were moved to Tule Lake, and I don't know why.

VY: So I think maybe your family might have been sent to Pinedale.

MM: Could be. I have no idea.

VY: And so my understanding is that you were transferred to Tule Lake in July of 1942.

MM: Oh, okay, that's news to me. [Laughs] But I'm glad to know that.

VY: Thanks to Caitlin.

MM: Yes, thank you, Caitlin.

VY: And how long were you in Tule Lake?

MM: I was there until, I think, August or something, of the year I turned four. No, five. I was going to turn five that year. I think I was four when we left. For some reason, a long time ago, I used to think I was three, but I must have been four. Because it was right after we got out of camp that I started kindergarten.

VY: So it sounds like you were in Tule Lake pretty much close to when they shut down.

MM: Yeah. Oh, we were one of the last to leave, apparently.

VY: Around February, maybe, of 1946?

MM: Possibly, I don't know.

VY: And so when you left camp, it sounds like you were roughly four or five years old.

MM: I was four. I for certain was not five, because then I wouldn't have had any trouble getting into kindergarten.

VY: Yeah, okay.

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