<Begin Segment 1>

TI: So today is June 18, 2024. We're at your residence, the Sterling Court in San Mateo.

RK: Right.

TI: Just for the purposes of documenting, so Dana Hoshide is running the camera, my name is Tom Ikeda, I'm the interviewer. We also have a couple other people in the room. We have your son, Derek, who is observing, and then we also have another filmmaker, Jason, who is filming us filming you. So, Ron, we're going to get started. And the first question is just, tell me where and when you were born?

RK: I was born in Amache, Colorado, October 18, 1943.

TI: So here's a question that you're one of the few people I can ask, is when you were growing up and people asked, "Where were you born?" what would you say? Like in elementary school or high school, "Ron, where were you born?" what would you say?

RK: I would basically... well, they've asked me here, so I basically just tell them I was born in camp, in Colorado.

TI: But still, a lot of people don't know what that means, right? "What do you mean camp in Colorado?"

RK: Yeah. But there are a lot of people that understand what "camp" means.

TI: And answer this question, because I remember asking, there was a professor, Roger Daniels, who used to teach at UCLA, and this was years ago, but he had students find out where they were born. And one of the students was reluctant to say that he was born in camp. And so when you were growing up as a student, like in elementary school, what would you say? Now you say, yeah, a camp in Colorado, people know about this, but back then, they didn't know about that. What would you say in terms of where you were born?

RK: I basically just told them that I was born in Colorado.

TI: Yeah, not being specific.

RK: Because a lot of them didn't understand what "camp" was, or what it meant. So I just... Colorado.

TI: I always thought what I would do, do I really want to get into that? Because it feels like it's a long story. You'd have to explain everything, especially people that understand, and then it's like, "What do you mean? So you were in prison or you had to go to camp, or what was that?"

RK: Well, a lot of people here have asked me, "Was it like a prison?" And I just tell them that I was born there, I can't remember what was going on. But yeah, my mom and dad, maybe from my uncles and my aunts, they would say it was like a prison, they were behind barbed wire, they had guards, so to them, it was like a prison.

TI: I'm sure that is an interesting conversation piece. It could be, because people aren't expecting, people are expecting, yeah, San Francisco or something. So that leads to the next question. What was the name given to you at birth?

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: What was the name given to you when you were born?

RK: Oh, Ronald Isao Ota.

TI: So tell me, so Ota, your name now is Kenmotsu. So tell me where the Ota comes from.

RK: The Ota were my real parents in camp. What I was told was that I had six brothers and sisters, I was number seven, and my parents at the time, the Otas, felt that they just couldn't handle one more. So they asked a Buddhist minister if he could find somebody that would take care of me while we were in camp, so that's how I got put up with the Kenmotsu family.

TI: And as you found out this eventually, did you ever learn the names of your birth parents?

RK: No.

TI: And just for the purposes of this recording, we did, at Densho, the staff did some research, and just for your information, your birth father's name was Akito Ota, he was born February 1904, and before the war, he was from Los Angeles. And then the mother was Chiyeko Ota, born September 28, 1912, and so, again, you wouldn't know this, but I just wanted, for the purposes of this interview, to just mention that. But now, when you say this Buddhist minister found another family, do you know what the process was? How did they do that? Was it like a formal process, or was just, "I know a family"?

RK: I'm really not sure, but probably the minister just went from family to family and asked if they could take care of me. And at the time I had no siblings in the Kenmotsu family.

TI: And just, again, from the records, I think we'll get into more his... when we look at the records at Colorado, Amache camp, there was no record of a formal adoption...

RK: That's correct.

TI: ...from an Ota to Kenmotsu. And so it appears that at this time, it was almost an informal arrangement that you were given to this other couple.

RK: Yeah.

TI: So from Amache, you then left in October 1945 to go to San Francisco. Again, you're like this baby. I wanted to ask, what are some of your earliest memories when you think of, as a child, what's the first things you can remember?

RK: Probably when I was about two. My mom and dad, whenever we went to my uncle's place for dinner, they would kind of discuss what was happening, what happened in camp. Because my dad's sister, they were in the same camp, actually, in the same building as I was, so they kind of discussed things.

TI: At those early ages, do you remember at all how it was discussed in terms of maybe not in terms of the details, but maybe just the feeling of when it was discussed, was it done with any emotion that you could remember?

RK: Well, I didn't understand at the time what they were talking about anyway. All I remember is what they told me. I guess I was one, and it was in the middle of winter, snowing, and they told me to come inside and I wouldn't. So they just let me sit outside the barrack, basically the barracks, and I basically turned blue. That's the way I was, I was kind of hard headed.

TI: [Laughs] So even at that early age, you were very strong willed.

RK: Yeah.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: That seems a little, I always have to realize that things have changed, but I'm a parent and seems like that's pretty extreme to leave a one-year-old out in the freezing cold until they turn blue.

RK: Well, that's the way I was, that's the way my uncles tell me.

TI: And when they tell that story, is it like a funny story, or how did they tell that story?

RK: Well, it was more like, "You were too hard headed as a little guy."

TI: Oh, okay. So it's almost like, "From a very early age, we knew that you were hard headed."

RK: I just wanted to do what I felt like doing.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: One of things I love about these interviews, at a very early age, sometimes there were some characteristics that come out, that that person has their whole life, showing up. When you talked about going to San Francisco, in your very early memories, about that time, you also had a sibling arrive, your younger brother. So do you remember when that happened in terms of his birth of anything like that, or when he first arrived?

RK: No, I don't have a lot of memories of what happened all the way back to San Francisco.

TI: Yeah, because on some ways, your younger brother Richard was born also in camp, Amache, in June of 1945, so that was before you went to San Francisco. So you talked about your early childhood memories in San Francisco, and you talked about living with your mother's sister. But do you remember the address of where you lived in San Francisco?

RK: The first place was 3610 Sacramento. There was actually two families that lived on the lower flat area, and then my uncle, the Sekinos, lived upstairs in the upper unit. Because they had two sons, so they took the larger unit.

TI: So this is, it sounds like a duplex?

RK: Yeah, it's almost like a duplex.

TI: And upstairs there were four people who lived, and then the downstairs unit where you lived with your parents and your brother, who else lived down there?

RK: My dad's cousin. And they had three kids, so they lived in the back, the back portion of our place, we lived in the front.

TI: So they had a family of five, there were three kids, and then you had a family of four, so there were nine living downstairs.

RK: Yeah.

TI: So how many bedrooms were downstairs?

RK: The downstairs... my mom and dad slept in the living room, they had a, basically a couch, it rolled out into a bed. And my brother and I slept in the next room. And then...

TI: And what kind of room was that? Was it like a...

RK: It was like a parlor, basically, is what it was. It was like a sitting room. But then they just converted it into a bedroom. And then my dad actually kind of took one of the smaller rooms and converted it into a kitchen, put a little small refrigerator in there and a little stove, and then we had one bathroom that we shared between both families. And they had one big bedroom where the mother and father and I think the son slept, and the two sisters slept in the next room. But they had a bigger kitchen, they had the main kitchen, and that's the way it was. We lived that way for, I don't know, about ten years, until everybody started moving out.

TI: And so it sounds like, downstairs, even though it was one unit, it was sort of configured into two separate living spaces, the shared space being the bathroom? That was the one thing that we shared?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And how was that for you growing up?

RK: Well, I mean, we weren't in school yet, so it didn't bother us, my brother and I. My mom's sister stayed with my uncle in the country, and then when she got a job, then she came, she lived with us.

TI: Downstairs?

RK: Oh, this was after we moved upstairs.

TI: Oh, after you moved upstairs.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: Okay, so before we go there, then upstairs, there was a family of four that lived upstairs?

RK: Yeah. The two girls were sent back to Japan before the war. Well, not before the war but before camp. So they grew up in Japan, and so there was already a family of four that lived upstairs.

TI: And did the girls from Japan that went there before the war, did they come to San Francisco after the war?

RK: Yeah. Well, it was almost, I think I was in, in those days, they would call it junior high school. So I think I was in junior high school at the time, and then my mom says that we were going over to my uncle's place to meet our cousin, and I went, "What are you talking about? I already know my cousin." I had no idea that there was two girls living in Japan.

TI: And I'm curious, age-wise, the kids, were they all about the same age or tell me about the age breakdown. I know you and your brother...

RK: Yeah, me and my brother were two years apart. The boys that lived, the cousin was the same age as my brother.

TI: These are upstairs?

RK: Well, they were living downstairs, but they were in the back. The boys upstairs were like twelve, thirteen, fourteen, something like that.

TI: When you were like two or three, they were about ten years old?

RK: Yeah.

TI: Now, this might be stretching your memory, can you remember the names of the people in each of the...

RK: The two that lived downstairs in the back was... I can't remember the father or mother, I can't remember their name. But the boy's name was Mineo Hirai. The two girls were Chizuko and Tazuko. And then the boy, nobody wanted to call him Hei Min, so we called him Fred. So he goes by Fred, he still does. The two girls, I can't remember what their English names were, but I still remember them as Chizu and Tazu. And then the other, the Sekino family, it was the two boys, it was Osamu and Tadayuki. The two girls were Reiko and Sachiko. So they always had Japanese names, they never had English, per se.

TI: So when the, so I'm thinking about this, sort of, upstairs/downstairs, all these people living together, so it feels a little crowded. I've done lots of these interviews, a lot of people, the Japanese Americans who came back from camp, didn't even have a place to stay. They lived in hostels or...

RK: Well, we didn't actually have a place to stay either, but we got back to San Francisco -- this is what my mom told me -- they had an apartment in Japantown. So I don't know how long we lived there, because of the other people that were living in the house, they had to move back in to their place.

TI: But when you say people that lived in the house had to move someplace else, the house that you ended up living in in Sacramento Street, who owned that house and who...

RK: My mom.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: Okay, so this was the family house before the war.

RK: Right.

TI: And how was it kept? A lot of people had to give up their homes or they lost... it seemed like your family was able to keep the house. How did that happen?

RK: Well, most of the people, when they had to go to camp, they only had to carry one suitcase, and they lost everything. They had to move out of the homes and people just moved in. So they lost everything. They had no place to go after they got back from camp.

TI: But in your case, the family was able to retain the house.

RK: Yeah.

TI: How did that happen?

RK: Well, they were our neighbors, so my mom and dad got to know them. It was a nice neighborhood, I mean, nobody was sitting there throwing bricks at each other or anything. So when they found out that we had to go to camp, they offered to take care of the house, our place.

TI: And tell me about the family that took care of the house. Who were they and where did they live?

RK: They lived right next door to us, and they were actually a German family.

TI: That's interesting, they were a German family.

RK: So they just kept the place up. The whole neighborhood itself was a real nice neighborhood. We had, there was a German family, there was another Japanese family across the street, we had French, they had a French laundry. And on the corner there was a grocery store that was owned by two Jewish brothers. So there was a lot of nice people in the whole neighborhood.

TI: Were there any nonwhite families, like other Japanese or Chinese or African American?

RK: Well, around the corner from us was an African American apartment complex. I think there was like four families in that complex. I don't think there was any Chinese, but I know there was another Japanese family that lived across the street.

TI: When I look at the address in terms of where your house was, it looked like it was just two or three blocks away from the Presidio, and so all the park, the Presidio Park, so did you ever go there and play as a kid?

RK: To the Presidio? Oh, yeah. We used to play baseball down there, or softball. And then there was another place, another park up on Clay Street, maybe three blocks from the house. It was basically a tennis court, basketball, jungle gym, slide and then swings, I mean, it's just a little small place. So we used to go there a lot. That was about it. And then down the block from us, what they call Laurel Village right now, there used to be an empty lot. So we used to fly kites, we used to go down there and fly kites, because it gets quite windy in that area, so we'd be able to fly kites.

TI: Yeah, we were looking at pictures of that neighborhood a little bit, of your place. When you go back to that neighborhood now, how has it changed? What does it look like now versus when you were there as a kid?

RK: Well, where we used to fly kites is now what they call Laurel Village, which had two supermarkets. They've got a couple of restaurants, couple of little shops. So that whole block basically just grew with little boutiques and stuff. There used to be a big cemetery where the Fireman's Fund Building is right now. So we used to kind of cut through there when we were playing. But then after they put the Fireman's Fund Building in there, it was like what did they do with the bodies?

TI: [Laughs] Well, I was going to ask, yeah...

RK: I have no idea what they did with the bodies.

TI: The land was just, I guess, so valuable that they had to exhume...

RK: Yeah, they had to burn 'em up.

TI: Burn them all up.

RK: But we used to play there.

TI: I don't hear of too many places where they actually take over a cemetery, that's interesting.

RK: Well, that whole area changed a lot. I think Derek can remember, he used to play baseball there, a place called Laurel Hill Park. So they used to play baseball there.

TI: So you mentioned that the house, I think you said it was from your mother. Was it from the mother's family, or why did you say "mother" and not your parents or your dad? You said your mother, I was curious.

RK: Well, I'm not quite sure about that, because I know my mom had it before, it may have been with my uncle, they had that property before they even got married, my mom and dad.

TI: Yeah, just because land is so expensive in San Francisco, I'm curious. So at what point did the family sell the property on Sacramento Street?

RK: I'm not quite sure about the year, but I think it had to have been in the early '70s. Because I was married to Grace, Derek's mom, and we were living in San Bruno, I think. This was before they were born. And then after they were born, we got invited to dinner at their place, at my mom and dad's place. Well, I went to the old place because I had no idea of them selling the house and moving into the apartment. I had no idea what was going on. So I went back to the house expecting...

TI: Your parents to be there.

RK: I drove up and the place is dark, no lights, nothing. So I had to call them, "Where are you guys at?"

TI: That's interesting. And how did you feel? That was kind the house you grew up, for it to be sold...

RK: Well, you don't feel good about that because it's someplace that you grew up in, and then all of a sudden you kind of find out that she moved in to some other place. I didn't even know anything about it.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: During this time when you were growing up on Sacramento Street, what kind of work did your father or the family do to support himself?

RK: My dad basically was a handyman type. And then he went to work as a night clerk in a hotel on Powell Street. My mom was like a caregiver to an elderly couple. So we come back, and then that's how we got into, or my mom and dad got into managing a hotel. We bounced around school, my brother and I had to go from school to school, back to original school. Because my mom and dad were managing a hotel on Powell Street, so we had to go to a school that was in the area. And then I think I was in the third grade, second grade, something like that, we moved back to the house so I went back to the original school.

TI: Oh, so for a period when they started managing hotels, you lived in the hotel, and so that's why you went to school.

RK: Yeah.

TI: So let's talk about that. So what was it like living... and so the location, you say, Powell Street, is this like the Tenderloin district?

RK: No. It was right above Chinatown where the hotel was. You could walk two blocks and you were right in the middle of Chinatown.

TI: And so this was the first hotel that they managed?

RK: Right.

TI: And you lived here for a while?

RK: We were there for, I don't know, four years, three years, something like that. And then we went back to Sacramento Street, so I went back to the original school.

TI: But let's go back to the house, the hotel. About how old were you when... you said three or four years, what kind of grades or age were you?

RK: I think I was in the second grade. Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the second grade.

TI: And so the family, talk about how the family lived in the hotel? Was it like you had this one shared room or multiple rooms?

RK: The first hotel, it was, my brother and I slept on one bed and then my mom and dad were in another... actually they had a bedroom right across the hall.

TI: And then was it one of those types where you had the rooms, and then there was a shared bathroom down the hallway, or did you have your own bathroom?

RK: We had our own bathroom. And then we went back to Sacramento Street, actually, we all went, my brother and I almost burned the hotel down.

TI: Tell me about that. How did you almost...

RK: Well, it was around the Fourth of July, and we got some sparklers. So I used to have fun. I lit one of 'em up and I was swinging it back and forth and we lit the curtain on fire.

TI: And this was in your room?

RK: Yeah. My brother and I were going back and forth to the bathroom with cups filling with water and so on.

TI: Because it was actually on fire? It was burning?

RK: Yeah. So somebody on the street happened to see us, so they called the fire department.

TI: Oh, so the fire trucks came?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And so what happened? Did you guys get in trouble?

RK: Oh, yeah, we got in trouble.

TI: [Laughs] And what did that look like? Who was the disciplinarian in your family?

RK: My dad.

TI: And when you say you got in trouble, what did that mean? Did he just sort of yell at you or what types of things happened?

RK: Yeah, he yelled a lot. My mom always had to tell him it's okay, it's okay, they're just young kids playing around.

TI: And when you think about fire trucks coming, did they just kind of come in and put it out, or did they have to break windows or anything like that? How major...

RK: Well, no, they came into the room with the extinguishers. They didn't have to use any hoses or anything.

TI: Okay, so it wasn't really, it wasn't at that point spreading or anything.

RK: No. Somebody actually happened to see us, happened to see what we were doing up in the bedroom.

TI: Well, you guys were lucky because probably those little cups weren't going to...

RK: Oh, yeah.

TI: That's a good story.

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<Begin Segment 8>

TI: And so from there, when you were living at the Powell, what was your typical day? Did you have to do chores before school or anything like that?

RK: I remember I always had to kind of clean up in the back. They had a little storage room, and my job was to sweep the place out. I don't remember what my brother did.

TI: At this Powell Street hotel, who was the clientele? Who were, essentially, your neighbors?

RK: Most of the people that were in that hotel were retired. Sold their home and did whatever, and they moved into the hotel. There was one lady that she was like a night clerk, so she actually worked for my mom and dad.

TI: And you mentioned earlier, in terms of your parents got into this, and I think it was right after you mentioned the work they did, you mentioned your mom was like a caregiver and your dad was a night clerk. It sounds like by focusing on retired, did your mom also help the people that were retired with her kind of care service? Did she do any of that?

RK: Well, she actually found out from one of the family friends. The wife happened to be doing the same thing, but she had so many clients that she just couldn't handle everybody, so she asked my mom if she'd be willing to pick up some of the clients.

TI: Now, for you and your brother, here you had your room with your own bathroom. After the Sacramento Street, it sounds like you had more room to live in?

RK: At the hotel? Yeah, we did.

TI: Did you like that better than Sacramento Street?

RK: In the sense that we didn't have to share a bathroom with another family, yeah. It was a lot better.

TI: Then how about friends in school? Was that hard to move or was it the same, or how was that?

RK: To me, school was school. You just had to get to know the other students. Most of them were all Chinese because it was close to Chinatown.

TI: So that must have been a shift for you, because on Sacramento Street, you described your neighbors as mostly white, and now you're going to a school that's mostly Chinese.

RK: Right.

TI: That's a pretty big difference.

RK: After a while you get used to it. I mean, I was glad to go back to my first school after we moved back to the house, because I lost a lot of friends.

TI: But then I remember now something you told me earlier. So when you first started school, back at Sacramento Street in kindergarten, how was that to start school? You were the oldest and you're starting school. What was that like for you?

RK: It was hard because at home, I always spoke Japanese. And then you go to school, you had to learn English. So that's why the teacher told my mom, "No more speaking Japanese at home, you have to speak English." And then now I forgot all my Japanese, can't remember it, couldn't remember any of it.

TI: I've heard this story, but it's generally with older Niseis before the war, but then postwar, not as much, so this is interesting that you had that same experience where growing up, you just had Japanese, and then you had to essentially learn English when you were in school. I'm guessing it might have been a little easier for Richard, your younger brother, because he probably knew he had to learn English and you maybe taught him English. So it's probably hardest on you.

RK: Yeah, it was.

TI: Now, how quickly were you able to learn English? Do you have any stories about the difficulties of not knowing English in this first year or so?

RK: Well, it wasn't that bad, because my mom spoke both Japanese and English. My dad's English was so-so. So he would kind of talk to us in pidgin, if you will. But my mom, her English was, she was born in California, so she spoke real good English, she went to school.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: So when you're... and I'm not sure if that's Powell Street or Sacramento, but when you're in elementary school, your mother told you something about your status in terms of essentially being adopted. Do you remember your mom doing that and what she said?

RK: Yeah. We were living in this second hotel, they were managing the second hotel.

TI: So the second hotel, meaning, so you went from Powell Street to Sacramento. Were you living at Sacramento?

RK: And then we went in and they moved to another hotel downtown.

TI: Okay, this is the Tenderloin area.

RK: Right.

TI: Okay, so you moved there, and so about what grade would that be then?

RK: I was in the fifth grade.

TI: Okay. So you're about to... about ten or eleven years old?

RK: In that area, ten or eleven. I always used to like to joke around, that was me, because whenever I dealt with my friends, I would always be joking around with them, I'd laugh. And my dad used to get mad; he used to get mad at me. I remember my mom said, she said something like, "I'm going to go downtown shopping," or something like that, and I just kind of made a smart-aleck response. So that's when she kind of let me know that I'd been adopted. Her words were, "You're adopted, you know," and that kind of shocked me. It was like all this time I thought you were my parents, and now you're telling me you're not.

TI: Given the circumstances that you just described, you said, you mentioned you were kind of being smart-alecky with your mom. So do you think she blurted it out because she was hurt in some ways and she was trying to get back at you? It was almost like she...

RK: Yeah, I guess. And then she must have told my dad that she let me know that I was adopted. And right after that... I was in the fifth grade. Right after that, that whole episode, I got sick. I mean, my dad started giving me chores to do around the hotel. My brother wasn't getting any of that, but I was, so that kind of put pressure on me, so I got sick, I came down with an ulcer. Well, they thought I had appendicitis.

TI: So let's go back to when you first, when your mom blurted out that you were adopted, and you didn't know this.

RK: Right.

TI: How did that affect you? What were you thinking? What was the first reaction when you heard that?

RK: It was like, how did this happen? My real parents don't me and now you're telling me this? You've been hiding this from me for all these years. This is something you could have told me a long time ago, but now you just blurt it out. So that kind of tells me that, okay, my real family, the original family doesn't want me, and now you're telling me this, does that mean that you don't want me either?

TI: It seems like you were really hurt.

RK: Yeah, I was. And it affected me to the point where I got sick. First they thought I had an ulcer, not ulcer, but appendicitis, because it was on the right side.

TI: And so during this period, to have an ulcer, that acid would just stay there for a while. So after you were told, and then you mentioned that your mom told your dad, were you feeling, how would you describe how you were feeling like in the weeks after that? Was it always on your mind, were you always thinking about it?

RK: Well, yeah. If you're ten, eleven years old, and it's always going through your head, right, "Boy, what's going on here? I'm not wanted by anybody."

TI: So that's what you're thinking, "Why did my birth parents give me away?"

RK: Yeah. See, I didn't know, nobody let me know that my birth parents had all these kids, and that they had to give up, they have to give me up. See, I didn't find that out until I was in the military. I was in basic training, actually.

TI: So you didn't know the circumstances?

RK: So when they thought I had appendicitis, I was in the hospital for two days, and they couldn't find anything wrong. I had to take x-rays, the whole works, couldn't find anything, so they sent me home, and a few days later I was back in the hospital. I got back into that environment at home, and it just compounded everything. So then two days later, I was back in the hospital going through more tests, and that's when they found the ulcer.

TI: When they found out that it was an ulcer, did any of the medical people start asking you questions, like trying to get at the cause of what was causing the ulcer? Did they ask you, like, "How are things at home?" those kind of things?

RK: No.

TI: Did it ever come up with anyone that you just sort of told, "The reason I'm feeling so upset is that I just found out that I was adopted?"

RK: No, nobody asked me. They just assumed, okay, must be some kind of, maybe something happened at school or something.

TI: You talked about, after you found out, after your mom told you that you were adopted, you said that she told your father also, and that he started treating you differently?

RK: Yeah, he did.

TI: And then you mentioned that when you went in the first time for the appendicitis, they didn't find anything, you said you had to go back into that environment. What did you mean by "going back into that environment"? What was that like?

RK: Well, it was like, "Do I have to put up with more of this, not physical, but verbal abuse?" Well, maybe them not talking to me. Even my brother stopped talking to me. He didn't know, but...

TI: He probably sensed something was going on.

RK: Probably. So I was sitting there having dinner one night, yeah, I couldn't even eat anything. But I'd be sitting at the dinner table and nobody was talking, nobody said anything.

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<Begin Segment 10>

TI: And you mentioned earlier that up to this point, you mentioned yourself as sort of this happy-go-lucky guy, joking, lots of joking. So it sounds like who you now were was very different?

RK: Oh, yeah, I was different. I can remember it was my birthday, I forget which one it was, but we went to a movie with a group of friends, and after the movie, we came back to the hotel and had lunch and cake and all this, and I was joking around and laughing and everything else, everybody was laughing and having a good time, and my dad opens up the door and he just says, "Stop being stupid." I mean, it wasn't very quiet, "Stop being stupid," he was yelling. So after that, it was like, okay, so I shut up. And I stayed that way for a long time. So even that stress just made my sickness worse. They found out that I had the ulcer and I was in the hospital for about two and a half, almost a month, because they had to go through all these tasks, x-rays and all that stuff, I couldn't eat anything.

TI: And during that month, again, none of the medical people just asked, talked with you...

RK: Well, they may have talked to my mom, but nobody asked me.

TI: Did your mom, do you think your mom shared with the medical staff, maybe, some of the causes of the ulcers? Like, "Ron just found out he was adopted"?

RK: Yeah, I'm quite sure she was.

TI: So she might have shared that with them?

RK: So she may have talked to my dad. But I don't know, for six months or so, I couldn't eat anything except Jell-o.

TI: When you talked about when you found out you were adopted, the sense was that no one wanted you. Your birth parents gave you away, and yet your parents, your mom and dad, took you in. So wasn't there a sense that they wanted you, especially for your mother?

RK: Well, I wasn't sure if they really wanted to be part of this family or not. That's why after I graduated high school, I decided to go into the service just to get away for a while, and I just couldn't live in that environment anymore.

TI: Before we go there, I just wanted to finish up a few things. So you talked about your father treating you differently than your younger brother, Richard. What would be some examples of things that he had you do that Richard didn't have to do?

RK: Well, when I was... I think I was in the fourth grade, something like that. My dad had to have, he had a cyst on his neck, he had to have surgery. So I had to do some of his stuff like emptying the garbage cans. Every day I had to take empty garbage cans, help take the full ones downstairs. I mean, that plus doing my homework, and then I asked my brother to help. He had this way of kind of smiling, and, "Hmm, nah." So I just kept doing it every day, every day. The other thing was I ended up painting. I had three rooms, and this is when they had, it was lead-based paint. So you were up in a hotel room painting, lead-based paint, you have to wear a mask, because it was pretty bad. So I did that, I did maybe two rooms. This is a summer-type job. It was things like, got to paint, and then I didn't feel like going down to have lunch, but I would go downstairs and have lunch. I wouldn't eat anything, I didn't eat a lot. And my brother was, I don't know what he was doing. So our relationship, my brother and I, had kind of changed after all this started going on.

TI: It sounds like the whole... what's the right way... feelings or the tenor of the family shifted after you found out that you were adopted, people started treating you differently. It sounds like you also saw people differently also with that information?

RK: All that kind of built up, and it didn't help my ulcers any.

TI: How did, when you eventually went back to school, how did it affect things like your schoolwork or just being with friends? Did things change after the adoption, finding out about the adoption?

RK: Well, I was out of school for like three months, so I had to repeat fifth grade. And after I found out I was adopted, I could see my grades were going down, because all this was affecting me. I was making pretty good grades. I wasn't all As, but As, Bs, Cs. And all that started to change. It became a lot of Cs and Ds, but all that went through junior high school and high school.

TI: With your grades going down, did it affect other things? Did people see you more difficult in terms of maybe disruptive or anything, or did you become more quiet, or did your mood change or personality change?

RK: Yeah, it did. It was almost like I stayed within myself. Even though I had friends at school, I wasn't really having a lot of fun, not like I used to have.

TI: So did any of your friends or maybe a teacher just maybe notice some of the differences and say, "Ron, is everything okay?" or, "What happened?" Did you ever have any conversations like that?

RK: Well, they may have talked to my parents, but my parents, they never came up and said, "We had a talk with your teacher, your grades seem to be slipping," none of that happened. I knew my grades were slipping, I mean, I could tell. I had to take my report card home and had them sign it.

TI: And also it was probably difficult having to repeat a grade, too, right? You had three months, so because of that, you had to repeat, so you lost some of your friends, and your friends sort of went on, so that must have been difficult, also.

RK: I kept a lot inside of me, which doesn't help when you have an ulcer.

TI: Well, that, I think, is what causes the ulcer, right?

RK: Yeah.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So as you find out that your mom blurts out you're adopted, but technically you weren't adopted, right? They didn't do the paperwork at this point. So did you ever, during this time, did you ever have to look at your birth certificate? Or how did you find out that you weren't officially adopted?

RK: As far as my birth certificate, no, I never saw that. The only way I found out that I would legally have to change my name was when I was in the service. When I enlisted in the service, one of the questions that they ask you was, "Have you ever lived under a different name?" So that's when I had to say, "Yeah. My real name is Ronald Ota." So then for six months, when I was in the service, my name tag said "Ota."

TI: Oh, because that was your legal name. Even though you thought of yourself as Kenmotsu. Because everything else up to that point, like library cards or anything else, it was Kenmotsu. When you were in the service, you had to answer this questionnaire?

RK: Well, I actually, at that time, I had to bring my birth certificate with me.

TI: Oh, so that's the first time...

RK: Well, not so much birth certificate, it's the military card. When I first enlisted, I enlisted under Kenmotsu, so that's what my military card said. But then when they found out that I also had the name of Ota, I had to change that.

TI: Because at that point, you told them, or they found out and you told them that, still, legally, you were Ota even though you were using Kenmotsu.

RK: Because my birth certificate still said Ota.

TI: So it was about this time, well, let me back up a little bit. Your decision to join the army, so you graduate from high school. When you're in high school, was that your plan? I mean, what were you thinking about military service and the family situation, I'm trying to get at the decision to join the army. Because this is about 1961 that you're doing this?

RK: '61. I just kind of looked at what I was doing, and with my grades the way they were, I just got to get out of here for a while and get my head straight. Because there was no way I was going to get into a college unless I went to City College or whatever. But I just needed to get away.

TI: Did you have anyone to talk about with this decision? It's a big decision, right, in terms of you graduated from high school, which path did you take? Was there anyone that you remember? It could be another adult, too, it could be one of your coaches or a minister or another adult or a friend. Is there anyone that you could...

RK: Well, I discussed it with one my classmates, because he was thinking about going into the military himself. So we just kind of decided, well, let's go into what they call a buddy system, two guys going in as buddies. But then when we went to the recruiting office, he backed out. And I figured, well, I'm the one who started this, I'm going to see it through. I needed to get away for a while. So that was it, I mean, I enlisted. But it helped just to get away, clear my head. Maybe not so much going into the military, but...

TI: Maybe running away a little bit from your family situation.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: And before we go back to the military, I just want to talk a little bit in terms of some of the other extracurricular activities you would do, like church or sports or things like that?

RK: Well, yeah. I think I was eight, and my brother was six. So it was like my uncle told my mom and dad that I should go to church, "It'd be good for him." So, yeah, I went to Buddhist church. And then he comes up and he says, "Oh, he should join the Scouts. Scouting would be good for him. So I ended up in the Cub Scouts. And they did the same thing to my brother, "You go to church, it's good for you."

TI: When you told me that, you kind of laughed about it. So what was that, why did you laugh? Because a lot of people went to the Buddhist church.

RK: Well, it's like you're telling me I have to do this, why don't you ask me if I wanted to? My kids, both Curtis and Derek, I never told them they had to do any Scouts, I left it up to them. I asked them, "Do you want to do it, then fine. But if� you don't like it, you can drop out." Same thing with church. But for me, it was like you're shoving this down my throat, you don't even give me a chance.

TI: And so because of that, I mean, given that you felt like they didn't ask you, you just had to go, what was the Buddhist church and Scouts like for you? Was it kind of an unpleasant experience or did you learn to like it?

RK: Well, you learned to like it after a while, because you make a lot of friends, especially in Scouting and at church, too. But it wasn't like something that I needed to do or had to do. But after a while, yeah, I'd make new friends. I didn't mind it.

TI: As a teenager, when you think back, was there a certain type of activity that was kind of yours that you really liked to do, that was one of your favorite things to do?

RK: Well, just growing up, going to school, I participated in a lot of sports. But then when your grades started to fall...

TI: They don't let you play sports.

RK: You can't do it anymore. Because the coaches won't let you play unless you get your school, unless you get your grades up.

TI: Now, what sports did you like to play?

RK: Well, I started out playing, started out running track in junior high school.

TI: And what event did you do?

RK: Actually, I was the only one in the seventh grade that was participating in any sports, track, baseball, basketball, I was the only one. And then I got lucky, the first year in track, we won a city championship, so I got a block [inaudible] one year.

TI: When you say you're the only one, were you like the only one in the family that was doing things.

RK: Yeah. My brother never participated in any sports.

TI: So sports was kind of like your thing that you were the only one doing?

RK: Well, the two cousins, the Sekino boys, they participated in track, football, baseball, so I just did it.

TI: But you really liked this, you liked sports? This was something you chose to do?

RK: It was like the competition, that was the fun part.

TI: Now, so did people, if they were to describe you back then, would they say you're a good athlete?

RK: Yeah, "You're a decent athlete. Maybe not the greatest, but you're a decent athlete. You've got good speed for track."

TI: And so were you like a sprinter? You would run the sprints, and that made you good at football because you were fast there, made you good in baseball because you could feel...

RK: Well, I kind of gave up baseball after a while because I'm too short, I'm a little guy.

TI: Really? Baseball is the one sport you can play when you're little, right? Football is hard when you're small. Track and baseball, basketball is kind of hard if you're short.

RK: Well, I don't know. Won a city championship.

TI: Oh, that's significant.

RK: In basketball.

TI: Oh, so you were on a team that won the city championship?

RK: Yeah. I won a city championship in track.

TI: So those were all significant.

RK: Those were the only two that I really did anything. Football it was just football, football, you get knocked around and get beat up.

TI: I could tell, sports was important because you light up when you talk about sports.

RK: I had a lot of fun. That was the fun part, being around other athletes.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: So when you talked about, after high school, deciding to go into the service, into the army, so you went to the recruiting office, volunteered. And you talked about earlier that it was the first time that you had to go through the... you had to actually let people know that you were Ota instead of Kenmotsu. But it was also about this time then you decided to officially be adopted as a Kenmotsu, right?

RK: Well, my mom sent me a letter when I was still in basic saying that, "You're gonna have to be in the city to sign adoption papers. This is when I was eighteen, yeah, you had to be eighteen to officially sign the adoption papers. But it was like, I had to be at the courthouse at, I forgot, nine o'clock or something like that. So that means I had to catch a, somehow get into the city from Fort Ord, which is the basic training camp. But the buses don't run until nine, so it was like how the heck am I going to get into the city? So I hitchhiked into the city. Some guy happened to see me and just pulled over and he goes, "I'll give you a ride." So from there, he dropped me off at the bus station, so then from there, I took a bus to the courthouse where I signed the papers.

TI: Now, what was your thinking about the official adoption? I mean, were things like, I guess one question is, that you might ask, is why didn't it happen earlier? Why didn't they officially adopt you when you were younger, would be one question, and two, why did you decide to... because now you're going around with Ota, why not be Ota? I mean, what were you thinking? Why go through the official adoption?

RK: First of all, I didn't know anything about the Ota family, I only knew one family, and that's the way I grew up, just the one family. I didn't know anything about the Ota family at all. So to keep things straight, I just changed my name to Kenmotsu.

TI: So who started that process in terms of someone had to...

RK: Well, my mom talked to the judge, and they set the date, whatever day it was.

TI: But you knew about this, this was okay with you, you said, "Yes, let's do it"?

RK: Yeah, because my mom let me know what she was going to do, so I said, okay, that's fine. I only know one family, there's no sense in me having a name that I don't know anything about.

TI: And when you were younger, when you had the ulcers, you talked about feeling like no one wanted you. So at this point, did you feel like, "Oh, no, I'm a Kenmotsu, and this is my family, and this where I belong"?

RK: Well, I think going into the military kind of changed my way of thinking a little bit. Calm down, don't hold any grudges, just live your life the way you want to live it, but live it under the Kenmotsu name.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: So joining the military, you mentioned earlier, was a way of getting away from the family. But it sounds like, going through basic training, it actually kind of settled you down, or calmed you down, but maybe you think a little differently about who you were and what was important?

RK: Well, I have no idea what the Ota family was about, who they were. I only knew one family, so I got to stay this way. It's me going back to a family that I don't know anything about.

TI: Earlier in the interview you mentioned, when you were talking about the Ota family, you said you knew nothing about that. But then you said when you were in the military, though, you learned that there were like six or seven kids.

RK: Right.

TI: So how did you find that out? Who told you...

RK: My mom did.

TI: Okay, so was it during kind of this adoption process, she gave you more information?

RK: Well, see, that was because she told me that was the reason why the Ota family put me up, to have somebody else care for me.

TI: Why did she tell you then and not ten years earlier, or eight years earlier when you first found out? She knew that already, she never, she waited all this time. Why do you think... what were you thinking?

RK: I have no idea. I didn't know anything about them. She could have just not say anything, and I would have just kept going and living as a Kenmotsu. But legally I'm still...

TI: Do you think she ever worried that maybe if you knew more about the Ota family that you would want to go to them and leave the Kenmotsu family?

RK: I never thought about it, leaving. But my personal feeling was, you gave me up. I don't know if I wanted to go find out what this family's all about. I only know one family, so I just decided to leave it that way.

TI: But in your heart, when you found out, oh, they had so many kids, and it probably then made more sense to why, and then your parents didn't have any children at the time, so you were given to this other family. When you heard all that, how did you feel about that? Did that change anything?

RK: I didn't feel any different. It was like, "I don't know you, I never knew you," I only know this one side. So that's way I left it.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: And so you go through this official adoption process. I actually love that little story that you had to walk around with "Ota" on your uniform. So I'm assuming that after you changed it, you then changed back to Kenmotsu?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And so did people notice that? They said, "Hey, Ron, your named changed." Did anyone notice the change from Ota to Kenmotsu?

RK: I told them.

TI: Oh, so at this point, you told people what had happened?

RK: They even asked me, "Why are you going into the city?" and I told him, "Because I'm going through the adoption process." They had the platoon sergeants and all, the captains and whatever, they had to get used to calling me Kenmotsu instead of Ota.

TI: So I'm sure they stumbled a few times. When they want to yell at you, they'd probably go, "Ota."

RK: Yeah, I happened to have my social security changed, the whole works.

TI: Yeah, I'm curious. Like social security and things like this, when I went through that process, I had to show a birth certificate.

RK: Yeah.

TI: But then your birth certificate said "Ota," so how did it become Kenmotsu?

RK: I had to show now that my...

TI: Oh, so earlier it was Ota, and then kind of changed it to Kenmotsu.

RK: Right.

TI: So earlier you did have documents that said Ota?

RK: So I had to change everything.

TI: But it sounds like, up until this point, you never talked openly about being adopted. I mean, you told your, now your army people that you were adopted. Before that, did you tell anyone else that you were adopted?

RK: No.

TI: So this was really the first time? And how did it feel to just now be able to tell people?

RK: After?

TI: Yeah.

RK: Oh, boy. It's a load off my shoulders. So I don't have to worry about telling everybody, "Oh, I'm an Ota."

TI: And that you didn't have to worry about, "Oh, my social security card says Ota, but I'm telling everyone I'm Kenmotsu." Now everything was Kenmotsu.

RK: Everything is one piece now.

TI: Okay. So like you say, a weight off your shoulders, it was probably a relief.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: I'm going to now go into your military service. So after basic training, what happened next?

RK: I stayed down at Fort Ord for advanced training, what they call AIT. So that was another eight weeks, something like that, sixteen... whatever. And then from there, you get your shipping out orders, and that's when I found out that I was... at first they ask you, "Where would you like to go?" So everybody puts down "Europe," "Germany," number one, "Hawaii," number two, and then I just put down "Korea."

TI: As your number one choice?

RK: As number three.

TI: Oh, as number three? Your number three choice.

RK: They look at what you put down, "Oh, this guy wants Korea? Let's give it to 'em."

TI: Because no one else puts "Korea," and they need people to go to Korea, probably?

RK: Not in my company.

TI: Because everyone puts, you said like Europe, and then Hawaii.

RK: I didn't mind.

TI: And when you put "Korea" down, why Korea? Was there something that you were interested about Korea, or why Korea? Because at this point, there were still things going on in Korea, there were skirmishes and things going on, there was fighting still happening over there in Korea?

RK: It wasn't real heavy skirmishes. Yeah, the North Koreans would come down and ambush things, whatever, and then go back to their side of the border, but it wasn't a real heavy-duty war. So that's what I got. I put it down, that's what I get.

TI: But you chose it, so what was it about Korea versus maybe Japan or some other place? What was Korea?

RK: Well, number one, there weren't too many infantry units in Japan. Things have changed now, but it was different back in '62. So I ended up on a troop transport going to Korea. Took twenty-one days. Stopped in Guam, stopped in Yokohama, and then on to Inchon.

TI: So in 1962 Korea, what was Korea like when you got there?

RK: It was in pretty bad shape. They didn't have the big cities the way it is now. I mean, that's changed drastically since I was there. But they had one train from Inchon to the different stations, and it took almost ten hours to get from Inchon to where I was, to the Seventh Division Repple Depple replacement depot. And then from there, another day, and then I got moved up to the Thirty-Fourth Infantry Brigade. And then come to find out after Derek graduated, and he was down in officer's training or whatever, that was his first duty station overseas.

TI: Oh, so the same location as where you were?

RK: Roughly.

TI: That's kind of special. I mean, during this time when in Korea, any experiences or activities or events that, stories that kind of stand out that you want to share?

RK: Well, when I was there, I ended up doing just about everything, carrying a radio, carrying a rifle, carrying machine guns. I even carried what they call a BAR, Browning Automatic Rifle. Only problem is I couldn't fire it. It didn't have any extra blank adapters. So to fire it, I would have to load a round, fire, load a round, fire. See, the M-1s, they had an adapter, so it would act like a normal rifle. So what I did was, when we go on the road like this, I used to take the guts out of the BAR. Because the weapon itself weighed about thirty pounds, and I couldn't fire it, so I figure, why carry this thing?

TI: With all the extra weight that wasn't doing anything.

RK: We had a war game once, and I was laying down in my position, but I wasn't firing. But the platoon leader asked me, he goes, "Why aren't you firing?" and I don't have any guts in it. Because everybody else is shooting, I would go, "Bang-bang, bang-bang."

TI: And everyone else was just shooting the... so explain, so your BAR in particular just didn't, was malfunctioning?

RK: It wasn't malfunctioning, I just couldn't fire it because I took all the...

TI: But before you took out the guts, you said it was still just single firing, right?

RK: Yeah. But the problem is you have to clean after you get done, you go back to your squad bay, you have to take everything apart and clean it. I figure, "Why should I do that?" because when you fire blanks, it's got a little wax plug in the front end and that gets into your weapon, it's just hard to clean. I figure, why am I going to do that?

TI: So when you went to the war games, did you get in trouble then for taking out the guts?

RK: I did.

TI: [Laughs] Yeah, because I interviewed a lot of the Niseis who were in the 442, and some of them had to carry the BAR, and they said, yeah, it was a pain because it was just so heavy.

RK: You know, it was a great weapon, but it just weighed too much. And then they finally got rid of it because they didn't have what they called an adapter that you can plug into the barrel, which makes it more like a firing mechanism.

TI: When I just found out about the BAR and that story, I thought about some of the other men I've interviewed who were in the 442. I'm curious, when you were in the infantry unit, the 442nd was a well-known Europe-based infantry unit, Japanese American. Were you aware of the 442 and did people know about the 442 in Korea?

RK: Yeah.

TI: So what did people know or say about the 442?

RK: Well, they knew it was one of the most decorated units.

TI: Oh, so they knew at that time?

RK: Oh, yeah. There was one guy, wasn't in my platoon, but he was from Hawaii. So he used to tell me stories about...

TI: The Hawaii guys, in particular, knew the 442.

RK: Yeah. There was a bunch of them over there.

TI: And so what were some of the stories this Hawaiian guy told about the 442?

RK: Well, about how good of a unit there was, how much they did for the war effort. So then when he went back, he sold me his transistor radio. I still have it, I think.

TI: So it was kind of a special keepsake?

RK: Yeah.

TI: That's good.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: So I'm thinking 1962, you're in Korea. I've interviewed some men who fought during the Korean War, so it was a little bit earlier than when you served. But they talk about that, they had to deal with a lot of anti-Asian or anti-Japanese sentiment in the military. Did you experience any of that?

RK: No, not really. I was just part of a unit.

TI: So no name-calling, I mean, like the term "gook" and stuff like that, would you hear things like that?

RK: Well, you always had that from guys in different platoons, a different company.

TI: But was any of that ever directed toward you?

RK: No. Because each company in Korea, they had a platoon of ROK, the Korean soldiers. So they actually trained with us. They were assigned, three or four of them would be assigned to every platoon. So I mean, it wasn't that bad. It was worse for them.

TI: Yeah, that's what I was wondering. So how did American soldiers treat the Korean soldiers?

RK: They didn't treat 'em any different than any other soldier. Matter of fact, I used to go to, whenever we had passes, I used to go with them to have dinner wherever they were eating.

TI: Well, so what about the Korean attitudes towards you because of your Japanese ancestry? Japan occupied Korea, there were a lot of bad feelings towards the Japanese.

RK: Yeah, it was.

TI: And here you are of Japanese ancestry, even though you're American. Did that ever come up? Was there any kind of like...

RK: No, not while I was there. We got along pretty good.

TI: And so at this point, did the happy-go-lucky Ron come out? How would you describe your personality during this time period?

RK: Yeah, I started to go back to my old self. I used to laugh and joke around with the other guys in the company, in the platoon. But up to a certain point, you didn't want to make real good buddies with some of the guys, especially if you ended up going into war.

TI: Because it was just emotionally so difficult if...

RK: Yeah. I had good friends while I was there in Korea, but you don't make bosom buddies, especially if you might be going to war. Because we did have to go, I think, three times in the year I was there. The Cuban blockade, I know that was three times we went on full order.

TI: Well, while you were in Korea, I mean, Vietnam was starting to bubble, or things were starting to happen in Vietnam also. Now, were you aware of that? Were things...

RK: Well, you're always aware of... if you have conflict going on someplace else, because you never know when you might get sent over there.

TI: Now, where were you when President Kennedy was assassinated?

RK: I was down at Fort Benning.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: Okay, so how long were you in Korea before you left?

RK: A year.

TI: And why were you transferred, or why did you transfer to Fort Benning?

RK: Well, I still had another year and a half of investment time, so you got to use it up, so I was transferred to Fort Benning, to infantry at Fort Benning.

TI: So what did you do at Fort Benning?

RK: I was assigned to the Eleventh Air Assault, quote/unquote "Test."

TI: Okay, so Infantry Unit Air Assault. So explain that, what does that mean?

RK: That was, the unit was getting used to flying around in helicopters, which they were supposed to be doing in Vietnam. Well, they actually did, but then the Test unit that I was in, we rappelled out of the helicopters, which they didn't do that in Vietnam because there was no way you could rappel down on a rope and fire a weapon if somebody's shooting at you.

TI: So it was too vulnerable coming down that rope?

RK: You had to use both hands.

TI: So is this something that you guys had to figure out at Fort Benning? I mean, you guys said you were a Test unit.

RK: Well, it was a Test unit, so we tested different equipment, rappelling equipment, it wasn't always the same stuff. Normally it would have been just a quarter-inch nylon rope, but then they also gave us a water-cooled barrel that the rope went through, but you still had to use two hands.

TI: So the water-cooled barrel, what was that for?

RK: It was just something that they could test because when you're rappelling, you're going straight down, you don't want to stop, and the rope gets pretty hot.

TI: I see.

RK: So basically the water, the tube, was supposed to cool the rope down.

TI: Because when you hit the ground and had to fire a weapon, you couldn't wear gloves, I guess?

RK: Well, yes, you had to wear gloves, because when you're rappelling, you're up two hundred feet or lower than that. You don't want to burn your hands, because you got to use both hands, one as a guide and one as a break.

TI: Oh, so this is interesting. So you did all this, a lot of rappelling, but then in the end, they never used that in Vietnam.

RK: No. They would land the choppers instead of rappelling.

TI: Okay, so you're at Fort Benning, I suppose with this training, and given that at this point, Vietnam is starting to heat up, that you were asked to probably reenlist because of your training and all this. Was that something that came up?

RK: Well, I was thinking about it. But actually, my platoon leader offered to make me a sergeant if I reenlisted.

TI: So then you, if you stayed in, you would become a platoon leader, essentially?

RK: Right. But I kept looking at what's going over in Vietnam, and I kind of went, "I don't think I want to do this." And then I actually took a group, I think there was eight of us that went down to battalion headquarters and talked to the recruiting officer. But he gave us so much garbage about, "We don't want this," "If you did that, we don't want you." And I just, nobody reenlisted, because he gave us so much garbage, it was like, "Forget it."

TI: That's interesting. So you were kind of interested. If that recruiting visit went differently, like they had someone really good and they gave a compelling reason, could you have seen yourself enlisting and then serving in Vietnam?

RK: I could have, but then I figured, "I've had enough." I've gone through this three years, I said, I don't know if I want to go over there, get my head shot off.

TI: No, that's understandable.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

TI: So you finish your service, what happens next? Where do you go next?

RK: I went back home and started working for the Federal Reserve.

TI: Before we go to your work, so when you come back home, and you see your friends and family, your parents, your brother, how was that for you? Did it seem any different to you coming back after serving in the military?

RK: Well, it wasn't so much different with my brother and myself or my dad. I saw a change in my mom, because she felt better that I was home now instead of being in the army.

TI: And so how did that change your relationship with your mom? What was different?

RK: It was for the better. We didn't have to bring up anything in the past, it made a difference.

TI: Now, switching perspectives, if I were to ask the people that knew you, like your mom and your friends, and maybe your dad and your brother, what would they say in terms of, if I asked them, "How did Ron change by going into the army?" what do you think they would say?

RK: Well, they would probably say that I left my shell, because I kind of went back to my old self. I mean, the army taught me that, "You can't just sit here and be a hermit," so I more or less went back to the way I was.

TI: So looking back, the military service was, it was like a transformation a little bit for you. You were able to change, sounds like a positive experience for you?

RK: Well, I felt better because of the three years that I was away from my family, my dad. And the relationship between my brother and I kind of went, kind of widened.

TI: I'm curious, though, some things didn't really change with your brother or your father. In particular with your father, did you sense that he treated you differently, though, after you came back? Even though you weren't close, but did he treat you differently?

RK: Yeah. Because I think he finally realized that I made my own choice instead of having him having to tell me to do this and do that.

TI: And when you got back, were they still managing hotels, or what were they doing?

RK: No, he started his own TV repair business, but my mom was doing the same... oh no, she actually started work in the Federal Reserve, the new Federal Reserve, not the one that I started with.

TI: Okay. And they were living back on Sacramento Street?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And so where did you live when you came back? Did you live with the family?

RK: Yeah, we lived in the upstairs unit.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

TI: So you said earlier, so you started working at the Federal Reserve. So what did you do at the Federal Reserve?

RK: I started off in the supply room. I would have to make, deliver supplies or whatever, whoever ordered what, I would have to make a run over to... I'd actually make two runs, one before lunch and then one after, or whenever we shut down, because I would have to take the truck back to the garage, which was downstairs in the basement in the garage.

TI: So when I think of the Federal Reserve, do they have a lot of, what's the right word, money, or I always think of gold and stuff like that. So there's a lot of high security there, right?

RK: Oh yeah, you bet. Where I used to park the truck, at the far end of that was the vault. So they had money in there, they had gold, and whenever I'd get all the supplies, they would open the front gate, I would go in and they would close behind me, and they would open the inner gate. And I would drop off the supplies and then go back the same way. Close one gate, open up the other one.

TI: And I suppose, when you say "they" opened it, they were all armed, I suppose.

RK: Yeah...

TI: Probably your military background was comforting to people, that was a good fit.

RK: Yeah, it helps. And I know after that, I started working for Wells Fargo.

TI: Now did you do any computer operation at the Federal Reserve or was that only at Wells Fargo?

RK: I worked what they called the electronics department, which was actually, they had to checks orders. We get the checks for different banks, and then we would break them down by branch, by bank, and then they would go back to whatever bank it was, and they would go through their own process.

TI: So you would help operate the machinery that would process these checks?

RK: Yes.

TI: Okay. And then from there, you then, you said, went to Wells Fargo?

RK: Right.

TI: So why did you switch from the Federal Reserve, which is probably this stable government kind of job?

RK: Well, it was kind of a dead end job at the Fed. I mean, they didn't have any kind of development people, no programming staff. I didn't want to go back to the supply room, that's taking a step backwards.

TI: And so how did you hear about Wells Fargo? Why Wells Fargo?

RK: Well, Wells Fargo at the time was one of the better banks. Wasn't as big as BofA, but it was still one of the better banks. And then I started in what they call the check sorting department.

TI: So that's kind of similar to what you were doing at the Reserve, Federal Reserve?

RK: Right, except these were all Wells Fargo items. So that we would just, what department I was in, we would break 'em down, we would block the work by branch, and then we'd put 'em in trays, and then we'd take the trays and then we would sort the checks by account. That's what I did for three years, four years, something like that.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

TI: And while you're doing this work at Wells Fargo, I'm looking at kind of the dates. So now we're going, sort of in the mid- to late-'60s. So at this point, I'm curious, you're a veteran and served overseas in Korea, trained at Fort Benning in this air assault. At this point, Vietnam is just going full blast.

RK: Yeah, it was.

TI: And with that, a lot of protest, I mean, you're in the Bay Area, and so a lot of protests here. What were you thinking when you saw all this happening?

RK: I'm glad I didn't stay in.

TI: [Laughs] I remember watching TV, and they always had the body count, and I was wondering, what was going through your mind as you saw that?

RK: It was hard to watch that because I could imagine guys in my own company. It could have been one of those guys, it could have been my good buddy down in Benning, used to call him Snake, that was his nickname. So it could have been him. I could have lost a lot of good friends, I might have. Because that's all infantry unit, that's what I would have been.

TI: Did you ever stay in touch with any of your old infantry buddies in terms of what happened to them?

RK: I actually saw one guy from Benning. He came over to the house, I forgot where he lived. I know he lived across the Golden Gate Bridge, someplace on that side.

TI: So you were on East Bay, you lived in East Bay? Oh, I'm sorry, Golden Gate, so you were more Marin.

RK: Golden Gate, going up north. So he was on leave, so we went out and had a couple of beers because I had to go to work that night. It was just have a couple of beers and said our goodbyes. I never did see him after that.

TI: Did you talk about what it was like?

RK: Oh, he didn't want to talk about it, so I wasn't going to push him.

TI: So you saw that in terms of the war, how about your views about the protests, protesters, and they were protesting, which made it hard for people like your buddy and other people that fought in the military.

RK: Yeah, because we're over there getting our heads blown off. True, it's not our war, but we're over there. Somebody needed our help, whether it be South Vietnam or North Vietnam, the North Vietnamese, because later, as the war got closer and closer to the end, we find out they were actually fighting with the wrong guys. We were actually fighting the wrong people. So it's like... and especially some of these guys that are draft dodgers. It was like, you could be over there helping these guys instead of sitting here protesting the war. True, it wasn't our war, but our guys were over there.

TI: Well, it was such a divisive time in the United States at that time. I remember just the protests, the military, and just the verve of that, it just was really, really difficult.

RK: I don't think any of our guys wound up to be there, but you're a soldier, you go where you're told to go. There's nothing you could do about it. If you don't want to go, what do you want to do, desert? If they find you, you're going to find yourself in jail.

TI: Yeah, it was such a difficult time.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

TI: So let's continue your career. So you're at Wells Fargo, spend a few years doing the check processing, and then after that, what did you get into?

RK: I became a computer operator. I did that for maybe five years, and then I became a unit supervisor.

TI: And these are with the, I'm thinking bank systems. I spent one summer working at the IBM sales office, and banks were always a big customer. Because they would buy the big computers, right, the biggest computers that they could...

RK: Yeah, when I first started, they got their first 360s. I think it was the 65, third generation IBM equipment. It was state-of-the-art machine. But I was told, working with the second generation equipment, I was the unit supervisor on that site, so we had two different types of computers.

TI: And for people who watch this interview, they think computer operator, back then, operating computers, back then it was the old IBM punch cards and all of these things that you have to... so it was a very, sometimes, mechanical process doing computers back then.

RK: Once they started getting into the third generation equipment instead of using the punch cards, everything was on disk.

TI: And then terminals...

RK: So all they had to do was, yeah, get on the keyboard and issue start disks like that, whatever. But the second generation equipment still had to use the old punch cards.

TI: And those would get jammed?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And so this is, when you started working with computers, about what year was that? Like 1970-ish? I'm trying to think.

RK: Yeah, about 1970, because I was supervising that. And then what they did was they merged two departments. The merged the computer operations department with another department, and I found myself out of a job. So I went to a unit called Quality Assurance, which basically was a unit that enforced Wells Fargo Bank computer operations standards, so I interfaced with the development people, making sure that whatever they were doing conformed to Wells Fargo's way of doing things.

TI: So that was probably an interesting experience, because then you interfaced with a lot of different, or a lot more people?

RK: Mostly development people.

TI: And then after that, what did you do? You were QA and then where did you go?

RK: I went to QA, and after that I went into a group called Tandem Support. Tandem at that time was a smaller computer, but the ATMs, Wells Fargo ATMs were all hooked up to the Tandem. And that was a different development group on its own. So we basically did the same thing, they used to give us the source, we used to compile it for 'em, made sure that it followed standards, and whenever they were satisfied with it, we would install it. And I've always been around the operations, quality assurance type business.

TI: So I'm going to do a little segue here. Because it's about this time when you met Grace, in the '70s, right? So do you remember what you were doing at Wells Fargo when you first met Grace?

RK: Yeah I was a shift manager.

TI: Like a graveyard shift?

RK: I started off on graveyard for, I was there for fifteen years, thirteen years, something like that.

TI: Shift position supervisor?

RK: And then I decided I wanted to see what the other two shifts were doing. So on my own, I just went to my manager and I said, "I want to spend a week on swing shift, after that I want to spend a week on day shift to see what's going on." And then I went back to third shift, and I don't know, my manager decided he was going to maintain this. So every three months, we rotated shifts. Each manager had to rotate through.

TI: And that's a little bit of cross-training, which is probably good?

RK: Yeah, more or less. Because there were times when I was third shift, we would leave the place clean, and we would come back the next evening, we would find ourselves eight hours behind. And it was like, what's going on here? So I just decided, I'm going to find out what each shift is doing.

TI: So you were the one who initiated this sort of shifting...

RK: Yeah, you could say that. I was just doing it on my own.

TI: Because you wanted to find out why the other shifts weren't doing their work?

RK: Yeah, why is it that I'm leaving this place clean, and I come back and I still see the same stuff?

TI: And so what was the reason? What happened to the other shifts?

RK: Well, they sure had this thing where, "Oh, we can't do it because we have to pay preventive maintenance on the machines." That was their big crutch.

TI: This is the day shift?

RK: Yeah. Swing shift, we had to catch up whatever day shift leaves, and we got to do our own stuff. And then when third shift comes back in, we got to finish this before we can get started on our stuff.

TI: That's so interesting. It's sort of upside down in that in today's world, you do your maintenance in the middle of the night because you don't want to take... I mean, because everything's so interactive. The day shift, you need the computers up and running and you would never take them down.

RK: Well, it was, third shift was always the busiest, because you get all the checks coming in during the day, and then swing shift would have to start processing, and third shift would have to finish it up and then start the normal daily work and trying to make your bags, get the reports out on time.

TI: No, that makes sense. So, actually, graveyard is actually a really important shift.

RK: Yeah.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

TI: So let's go back in terms of, I just want to do a little bit of family life. So I mentioned Grace, who was Grace and tell me how you met her, her name and where did you meet?

RK: I met her through a good friend of mine. His wife knew Grace, so they kind of introduced me. Actually, they wanted me to take Grace and her roommate to a party. So I said okay, I'll take 'em. If they meet somebody, that's fine.

TI: And they were both single women.

RK: Yeah, if they don't meet anybody, I'll bring them home, make sure they get home.

TI: But in hindsight, were they setting you up with one of them?

RK: Well, that was the plan.

TI: Okay. This is your buddy.

RK: Yeah. I mean, I knew Donald from the time we were in Cub Scouts all the way through Boy Scouts, we went into the army at the same time. He wasn't in the unit that I was, but that's the way it started. I was actually supposed to... they wanted me to meet Grace's roommate.

TI: So they thought that was going to be the match.

RK: Yeah, but then I went out with this one.

TI: [Laughs] So how did, so this is, at that time her maiden name was Kagehara?

DK: Kawahara.

TI: Kawahara, okay, Kawahara.

RK: Yeah, Kawahara.

TI: Okay, I'm sorry, Kawahara.

RK: [Addressing videographer] Your family.

TI: Kawahara. And he's mentioning Dana Hoshide, they're related. So Grace Kawahara. Now, what was Grace's relationship to your friend? It was like she was friends with his wife?

RK: Well, Grace's friend and Janey were roommates. They were both going to Sac State at the time. Janey knew Marian, my buddy's girlfriend, because they both came from Stockton. So it was like, okay, we want you to meet.

TI: So you were kind of the big city boy then?

RK: Yeah, you might say that. So that's the way it was supposed to be, supposed to go, they wanted me to meet Janey.

TI: But instead, you were attracted to Grace. Tell me a little bit about Grace. Where did she grow up?

RK: She grew up in Walnut Grove.

TI: Okay, so that's a pretty small town.

RK: Yeah, it still is.

TI: Small town, but fairly solid Japanese community, because they have a Buddhist temple.

RK: Right. So yeah, she grew up there, went to Sac State, graduated from there, and then, yeah, we got married after that. Because she wanted to graduate, get her teaching credential, get her student teaching done and find a job. Well, we did everything except she couldn't find a job right away.

TI: Find a job where?

RK: She couldn't find a job right away, a teaching job.

TI: I see. And this would be kind of, again, early '70s?

RK: Yeah, early '70s.

TI: So I'm curious, because you grew up in the city, and she's not from the city, where do you take her on a date in the city?

RK: Well, normally, most of the time on weekends, I would drive up to Sacramento.

TI: But when she did come to the city, where would you take her?

RK: I forgot where we used to go. It's a long time ago. I mean, there really wasn't a lot of time, because she would only be here for, like, a day and a half, come down Saturday and then leave on Sunday. So we would go to friends' houses, stuff like that, the inner circle, you might say.

TI: Like places in Nihonmachi? Would there be interesting places for her?

RK: Yeah, we'd go there a couple of times.

TI: And then probably the beach or something?

RK: Well, at the beach, there was nothing there, because everything closed down by the '70s. There was hardly anything there.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

TI: Okay. Well, so the two of you got married, I have, in 1971? And where did you get married?

RK: Sacramento. The Sacramento Buddhist Temple. Because the Walnut Grove Temple was too small, so she wanted to get married there, so I think that's fine. It was fine with me.

TI: And then after you got married, where did you live?

RK: San Bruno, which was just south of San Francisco, right across from the airport, actually. And then from there, we moved to Foster City, we bought the home in Foster City.

TI: And then you had, you said, two children?

RK: Yeah.

TI: And why don't you tell me the names of your children?

RK: I'm sorry?

TI: I'm sorry, tell me the names of your children.

RK: Oh, Curtis, Derek.

TI: And Derek we have in the room with us.

RK: Curtis's Japanese name is an offshoot of mine, and Derek is named after his great-grandfather. No... yeah.

TI: So I'm going to come back to another thread that you talked about now that we've established your family. You mentioned earlier that during the military, when you did the official adoption, you told your army buddies about being adopted. But after that, did you tell anyone else that you were adopted? Like your work friends or even your family? Did you tell your family you were adopted?

RK: No.

TI: So why, I'm curious, why didn't you tell your family?

RK: Well, as far as my work buddies, work friends, to me, it was "none of your business."

TI: But how about Grace, your wife? Was that something that you ever thought...

RK: I never had a chance. And that's not something that I'm proud of.

TI: And why is that? Is that something you felt you were hiding from her, or you just didn't think it was important?

RK: Well, to me, it started off with, "You're hiding something from me," meaning my parents and the Ota family. You could have told me before, instead of waiting until I'm eighteen. And I never really said anything to Curtis and Derek, because that's not something I'm really proud of. I didn't want to go back and remember. I tried to forget all about that, that's why I never said anything to them.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

TI: And so when, just fairly recently, when your son started asking questions, and maybe you can tell the story. So how did it come about that you told your son that you were adopted?

RK: Well, actually, he was down in L.A., and I think he went to the Japanese...

TI: Japanese American National Museum.

RK: Yeah. And then he asked me, because he was looking to see, he was trying to do a little history. So he was looking for my name under Kenmotsu, so I just told him, "That's because I'm adopted."

TI: Okay, so when he asked you, he called you and says, "So Dad, I can't find your name," what went through your head at that point?

RK: Well, in a way, to me, it was, oh, it's a relief now, because I got that out of the way. I don't have to hide it anymore. It's not something that I'm proud of.

TI: Why do you think it is that you feel like you, that you had to hide it? What was the feeling or thinking in not telling people?

RK: Well, it's not something that I'm proud of, let's put it that way. The way I was told hurt me really bad, and that's something, probably had something to do with my ulcer. I kept a lot inside. So I just wanted to keep that part of my life quiet.

TI: Yeah, it's kind of like, the way, I guess, I view it is, it was very traumatic for you. It was a traumatic experience, and for you to navigate or survive that, you had to protect yourself, and I think that protector is still with you.

RK: Yeah. In a way, I mean, I just tried to keep things low key, you might want to say. That part of my life, I just don't want to, I just tried to forget it.

TI: At this point in your life where it seems to me that it's safer for you to share this information...

RK: Yeah, I mean, I feel a lot better.

TI: Are there now people that you find yourself telling that you're adopted that you didn't tell before?

RK: No, I haven't kept any secrets other than the fact, you know, the adoption thing.

TI: So doing this interview is a big step for you. Because this is a very, I think, more public way of telling your story, and part of it is being adopted.

RK: Yeah.

TI: Why did you decide to do this? It must have been hard to decide to do this.

RK: To do this?

TI: Yeah.

RK: Well, Derek asked me if I would do this, and I said yeah, because that may bring, make me feel better about some of the ways, some of the things that I grew up with. Get a load off my chest, you might say, get it out in the open instead of trying to throw sand over it.

TI: When you think about what you experienced and everything that you've gone through, and in some ways, growing and opening up like this, are there any... I always ask, kind of like, words of wisdom? Or what did you learn that you think is important for people to know? In some ways, the struggles that you've had...

RK: Probably there's no sense in trying to keep things in yourself. There's no sense in making yourself sick, which is what happened to me. And for a long time, we would go to friends' houses and whatever, and I wouldn't say a lot, because I was keeping things inside, and it's not worth it. Learned that the hard way. So I'm just trying to be as open as I can to everybody about what I went through.

TI: Ron, I just want to thank you for being so open about, you've been incredibly open and vulnerable during this interview, I appreciate this. Because I think your story, in particular, I mean, very much shares what you just said. Sometimes these things happen and it makes you want to not share these things.

RK: There's no sense in getting sick over it.

TI: No, I agree. So, I think, again, thank you for...

RK: But I think a lot of it had to do with the way my dad treated me. He wouldn't speak to me a lot. As a matter of fact, whenever we had dinner, he wouldn't say anything, that's the way he was. So that kind of carried over to me.

TI: And does it ever make you think that, perhaps, your father had something else that he was holding in that was very painful?

RK: That I have no idea.

TI: Because he never shared.

RK: Because he, I guess that's the way it was when he was in Japan, that's the way he was brought up. So that's the way he brought me up.

TI: So my last question is, going forward, are there any thoughts or interest in learning more about the Ota side of your...

RK: Well, going forward, I would say I would have to think about maybe getting to meet them, finding out who they are. For a long time, I even told Derek, "No, I don't want to meet 'em," because that's the way I felt personally. To me, you turned your back on me, so why would I want to talk to you, why would I want to meet you? But then I figure, there's no sense in holding a grudge. They did what they had to do.

TI: Well, in particular, when this interview becomes available, if someone from that family maybe saw this interview and they reached out to you, would you be willing to talk with them?

RK: Sure. Now that things are in the open, you might say.

TI: And I just wanted to mention this because I do want you to understand, there are things that may happen because you told the story with us, and I just wanted you to understand that someone from that family may watch this and says, "Oh, I want to reach out."

RK: I'm open.

TI: Well, anything else you wanted to say? I went through all my questions, was there anything else that...

RK: I feel a lot better, I got everything off, got everything out in the open, you might say.

TI: You are a very good interview. I mean, I really enjoyed it.

RK: Thank you. I've been holding a lot of stuff, a lot of stuff in, but now, you'd say, the weight is off my shoulders now.

TI: Thank you.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

TI: Again, today is June 18, 2024. And this is actually a follow up interview to something that you just observed your dad going through. And so let's start off, you know, tell me name, your full name and your date of birth.

DK: Derek Tatsumi Kenmotsu, I was born August 9, 1983.

TI: And just tell me the relationship to Ron, who we just interviewed.

DK: So Ron is my dad.

TI: Before I... I wanted to actually kind of talk about the story of how you found out that your dad was adopted. But before you go there, you just sort of sat through an interview with your dad, where he shared, I thought, some very personal things about, you know, his experiences of finding out about being adopted, and how it affected him, especially when he was younger with the ulcers and things like that. What was going through your mind as you heard your dad talk about this?

DK: It was, I mean, when I found out, I think a lot of these thoughts went through my mind. Because there were a lot of questions that I had that I felt like were a little unanswered, or there was maybe something that I was missing. So I got a little bit of it, but I think this is the first time I got just such a comprehensive feeling and view of my dad, and I think it's just the questions that you asked were really, really great to bring that out. So I felt, one, I felt kind of his pain that he must have experienced, and it just, I mean, not to the level, obviously he did, but it just felt, I felt so badly for him to have lived that type of childhood when -- I think it's revealed -- that he was adopted and how he was treated. And I couldn't really imagine feeling, experiencing that. And then also, I think, reflecting on my childhood with my dad, I'm just really grateful that he didn't pass on that, I guess, the anger, or really... maybe to my dad's detriment, he bottled it up. But to my brother and me, he was still kind and compassionate, maybe not very outspoken, but he was not the person that he described his father to be to him. So I actually think my dad, I think maybe a few months ago, because I was reflecting on what it must have been like, and that I didn't have to bear that type of treatment.

TI: Well, I mean, it's really thanks to you. I mean, you didn't do it intentionally, but you're the one who kind of stumbled into this, that opened this whole story. So let's talk about that. Tell me the story of how you approached your dad in terms of the question. Where are you?

DK: So it was at the Japanese American National Museum. I was there for orientation for the U.S.-Japan Council's Japanese American Leadership Delegation. And they had the Ireicho, the documentation of people that were in the incarceration. And I was looking for my dad, because I wanted to do the stamp by his name, and I couldn't find him. And at first I was thinking, was my dad actually there? And then I thought, well, he must have been because he got the, whatever the Reagan/Bush administration, the reparations. The U.S. government never gives payment by mistake. Like, I remember as a child that that was like a thing, so it was like, I know there must have been... maybe there's some mistake, maybe it was a misspelling. So then I asked the museum staff, "Why am I not able to find my dad?"

TI: And when you did, I'm curious, so the museum staff, you said, "Hey, I can't find my dad." What was their response? Is this something like, oh, yeah, it always happens, or no, this is unusual?

DK: They said, well, sometimes it is misspelling, but they said, "Well, let's try to figure this out." And then they looked up like the final manifest or the exit manifest, and it showed my dad's family but only with my uncle on there. So I thought, oh, that's strange. And I thought, "Is it possible my dad is adopted?" I even thought about it.

TI: Oh, so you actually thought it?

DK: I thought about it, but I was like, "Oh, but that's crazy." [Laughs] So the staff reached out to Brian who works for Densho, an historian, Brian...

TI: Brian Niiya.

DK: Niiya. And they said, "Brian is like Sherlock Holmes with these types of things." So they said, "Let's email him if you're willing to," and I said okay. So a day passed, and then I went back home and I called my dad. I said, "Hey, Dad, I was at the museum, I was looking for your name, and for some reason it wasn't coming up. And they were looking into it and I saw that Grandma, Grandpa and Uncle Richard are on there, but you're not on there. Do you know why?" And this is before Brian had -- Brian actually figured it out, but this is before I got the email from Brian. And then asked my dad and then he paused and he said, "It's because I'm adopted." And that was just a big revelation.

TI: So describe to me how your dad told you. You mentioned a pause, like how long was the pause, and how did he tell you was adopted? I mean, what did you sense in that call?

DK: It was probably shorter than it felt, but it felt like a while because it's just a pause on the phone when I called him. It was maybe like a two or three second pause. And then he told me, but he just... kind of matter of fact, but also kind of a bit of inflection in his voice like, "It's because I'm adopted." And I said, "Oh, well, do you know what your birth family name was and what your birth name was?" And then then he told me his first name and middle name were his birth name, but his family name was Ota. And then later that afternoon, I got an email from Brian saying, "I found this Ota family that has Ronald Isao Ota. Could it be possible that Ronald Isao Ota is Ronald Isao Kenmotsu?" And then I responded and confirmed with him.

TI: And since that time, since that phone conversation, have you and your father had more conversations about the adoptions and what it meant to you? I mean, you heard the interview that I did, have you and your dad been sharing, kind of, similar conversations?

DK: A little bit. I did ask him if he had an interest, and as my dad shared at that time, he didn't really have an interest of finding that family. Because I did just some kind of search engine searches on, like, the names and stuff, and I found, of course, his birth parents are since passed away. But there are some, I think, of the siblings that are still alive, so just kind of curious. But yeah, at the same time, I want to let my dad lead on that, and also had kept it fairly, I haven't shared, I haven't even talked to my uncle about it, because I don't know if my uncle knows or doesn't know, maybe he does, but I just kind of left it to my dad. And I think the only group of people I told is my JALD delegation, just because they were there when I was trying to figure out this mystery. I was like, I don't know why my dad's not in here. Okay, and then when we went on the trip, a month and a half later, I told them, when we were all just together, and I said, "Hey, I found out some really big news about my family and my dad," and then that's when Naomi said, "Wow, that's really a powerful thing to learn," and just how, what a time that must have been, how hard that must have been for all the families involved.

TI: How about your brother? Did you or your dad tell your brother?

DK: Yeah, so I told my brother before... my dad said, "Hey, I should tell your brother." I said, "I'm sorry, I already told him yesterday," this afternoon. But then yeah, I told them shortly after finding out, and it was pretty shocking for him, too. I haven't asked him what it meant for him, but I think for both of us, also, especially because it's our family name, we could be Otas.

TI: Well, how does it change, or does it change?

DK: It doesn't change in the sense of, like, I don't look to change my family name, but it does make me curious about that family. I looked at like the DNA trackers and I always wondered why Okinawa comes up pretty high on the list. And I lived, I was stationed in Okinawa, and I'm curious if that, it is a family name that does come from the Ryukyus as well, so I'm curious.

TI: Oh, so you did the DNA stuff?

DK: Yeah, in the past, but it just has, it's there. So one side is Hiroshima which is my mom's side, which we all knew, Hiroshima, but number two is Okinawa, and I just wonder if that actually is the reason why is because maybe the Ota family has some sort of lineage through Okinawa.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 27>

TI: Your dad during the interview expressed this sense of hiding this information. And, I mean, he kind of regrets that he didn't share this earlier, but this theme of kind of hiding. And I'm just wondering how you feel about that? I mean, in terms of this information, is this something that you feel like it should not be shared widely? Obviously, as we're interviewing... but how do you think about that?

DK: So I put my dad first. So if he were ready to share it, then I'd be open to share it, but I wouldn't want to make his story and make it something that I'm broadcasting. I think that's something that I would have a conversation with my dad, and I did upfront, like, "Hey, how open are you about it?" And he said, "Well, it's kind out in the open, but at the same time, like I want to be respectful and sensitive to, it's really, I mean, he kept a lot, kept it to himself for such a long time, so that's why I want to be very sensitive and cautious with it. But at the same time, if he's open about sharing it, I feel like it's nothing to be ashamed of, that's how I personally feel. And that's why I would be interested in meeting their family members, because there's a strong chance that they don't know about him either. I think there's a possibility, or maybe they've heard his name and said, oh, he was adopted, so I don't even know what his name is now. So yeah, I think it would be probably a big revelation for their family to know that they're related to a family named Kenmotsu now.

TI: Keep us posted, because maybe there will be more interviews in terms of, when they find out, maybe we'd want to interview some of them about their lives. So, Derek, we have to keep this short because we have to get out of this room, but thanks for being here, for making this all happen, because this was this was really interesting.

DK: Thank you, Tom, this is really special for us.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2024 Densho. All Rights Reserved.