<Begin Segment 6>

IM: So by 1972, we're still here. But you marry Mo in Elysian Park. I think we talked about that... but you... sorry, I'm just going over this.

KM: But I knew then it was a mistake. Is that what you're...

IM: Oh.

KM: My sister was clear, said, "This is a mistake."

IM: Your marriage?

KM: We knew it was a mistake, yeah.

IM: Well, maybe you could talk a little bit more about... because you were together for four years, right? Something like that?

KM: Yeah, you're right. It was four years. So it was really like, at the two-year point, I think I realized this was not going to work. Well, I wasn't really sure, but I knew there were issues, and so that's when I suggested that we talk to Amy Mass. And so Mo went one time -- here we go again -- I decided to continue to see Amy on a weekly basis, yeah. So I continued to see her for two years, and she really helped me get stronger. So I think at that point, I was like, I didn't have a lot of self-confidence, or my image, self-image wasn't that good at that point. Because I thought, "There's something wrong, maybe it's me," in terms of the relationship. So she helped me see that it wasn't, I think, more clearly, that this was not a good healthy situation, need to get out, and you're strong enough to get out. But the problem with being in the collective was because we're in a political group, and we're in a political collective, living collective, I could have extricated myself from the relationship probably and I should have sooner. But for whatever reason, it was hard, until the collective ended in '76, that's when I became like, then I could sort of go my way. Before, that would involve too much, you've got to... not really, but in my mind, it was too much. So that's when I, formally, was able to leave the relationship.

IM: So I definitely want to talk about Amy Mass and all of that, but first, I guess, just going back a little bit, when did you kind of... you said two years into the relationship, you kind of started to realize things weren't healthy, things weren't working. Can you tell me what was a kind of red flag for you at that point when you're, you know, twenty-five, twenty-six?

KM: Hmm. Well, I think it's a continuing theme, at the very beginning when he said that it's a community of the community, and there was nothing like, were we going to say anything to each other about the relationship? That was kind of the running theme. I don't think he understood how to personally relate, how to build a relationship. It was like it was about doing stuff in the community and there was nothing, there was nothing enriching about, towards each other. I think that was it, I think that was it. It wasn't healthy. I didn't feel like I was getting any, I wasn't gaining, I wasn't learning, I wasn't getting support.

IM: There was no room for bringing these sorts of things up with him?

KM: I don't think he could do it.

IM: Self critique session.

KM: I don't think he could ever deal with all this. It's kind of like this. It's kind of like Mo can't really fight for himself. He can fight for the people. It's like we used to say this kind of jokingly, he loved the masses, he just hates individual people. Because he would get into these really hateful things, individuals, angry with them, but he loved the people. One time we had to go to the welfare department, because they were questioning some Medi-Cal thing. And Mo can go to city council and speak out to a group of people, he can be the loudest voice and lead that charge. But when we went to the welfare department to argue our case, I looked around and was like, suddenly he retreated, and I said, "Okay, I guess I got to speak." I had to speak up, and it was like, what happened? So fighting for yourself wasn't something he could do. So that seemed to be kind of the theme here. Anything personal, individual, not able to deal with it.

IM: So all the while, you're trying to also kind of find your voice, right?

KM: Yeah. Well, I was doing my stuff with East L.A. Outreach Team, parents' group, we started a parents' group, and I was continuing with that, and I was the visible face of that group. I didn't feel negative about myself in terms of the work, but personally, it didn't feel good.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2023 Densho. All Rights Reserved.