<Begin Segment 23>

PW: Were you creating art while you were in Munich?

RO: Yes. And I tried to do as much as I can, because it was one of these things where you just, the PX had some supplies, but not very much. So if you want supplies, you have to go down into the main part of Munich, the center part. And you go to this place where there was a good place called Schwabing in this kind of very hippie, liberal group of people. And there was a little art store. So I would have to go there, he didn't speak any English, and go and buy canvas and paint and whatever you do, and the best German that you do. But it was enough to be able to communicate. So once we got our little apartment, I took paper and we just lined the wall of our little dining area if you call it that, and that's where I was painting. And so at that point, then we became in contact with other Americans that were there that were not associated with the army, and very good friends, a young couple with a child, she was studying opera and he was basically a painter. But he was also a friend of this other art teacher, because they had gone to the same church. And so I was introduced to Woody and his wife, so he and I became good friends about art and things of that nature. And eventually I was invited into exhibitions in which he was involved with and made that connection with various places.

So you were painting as much as you could, and I think the one thing that made all the difference in the world was that because we would often go downtown to go to different museums, and most of the museums were very traditional where they held collections of work from centuries back. But then the one major museum, art museum in downtown Munich was called the Haus der Kunst, which is the building that was designed by him, and it had all these large exhibitions of German art. So we went down there and we were looking around, and all of a sudden we came to this one section of the museum, and there was a sign in front that says, "Art U.S.A. Now." I thought, "What's that?" So we walked into that place, and I was just stunned. I was absolutely blown away by what I was seeing. And what it was was a collection that the Johnson and Johnson company had amassed a collection of one hundred American artists from different venues and different places of the country. And even though there were people that were from Italy or Germany studying in the United States, were included. So all of a sudden I was seeing, "Is this what's happening in America?" Unbelievable. Because prior to that, your association, your understanding about what was happening in art in the United States, you didn't have the internet, you didn't have things of that nature, you had a magazine called Art in America, and that was basically it. And so he had no idea. And all of a sudden this realization that, wow, this is what people are doing today, and these were all people who were very instrumental, and then the art movement that was happening at that period of time, and they were giants of the business.

PW: Which was what? What was...

RO: So then you had [inaudible] so you saw abstract paintings, you saw traditional paintings, you saw social realism, you saw this and that, and it was just a bit of everything. And you can go from place to place to place and see all this work, which I was not introduced to prior to this because of my limited isolation in Fresno, you don't have that. And so this was then the beginning, I said, "Oh, my goodness." So as a result of that then, it changed everything. And so here I was trying to go ahead and make paintings and so on, in this very loose style and so on. And then after we had spent our four years there and so on, we knew we were going to be coming back, because our first child, Amy, was born. And we could have stayed, we could have loved the idea of staying, living in Europe, but then we realized that when you have a child and so on, you want to share that information and that experience with your, so they understand they have grandfathers and grandmothers. So we made that decision to come back, so as a result, we had come back and I was looking for a job when we came back, and it was a position opened in Oakdale High School, which is near Merced. And it's this little rural place, but it was the only job that I could find, so it must have been, I accept that job and taught there for a year. And then my other friend who also lived in, he was also one that I knew in college, but he had gone abroad to travel, but he got a job in Stuttgard, and so then he and I, we connected with each other, we went to each other's homes and so on. But then when he came back, then he was teaching at Sierra High School, which is up in the foothills. Well, then I had been teaching at this other school near Merced. And so he called me. He knew that I was back, he called me, "Say, there's a job opening up at Sierra High School." And he said, "You should apply for it." And he thought that possibly we would make a perfect fit because we knew each other in Europe as well, and even in the college years at Fresno State. So I applied and got the job.

PW: What year was that?

RO: That was in 1966, '67, I think. So then here I was, so we mentioned a little house in the Mayfair District, and here was this place. It was a nice house, and it had a garage. And so I thought, well, I want to continue now, especially with the enthusiasm and inspiration that I received from this Art U.S.A. Now show. It changed everything. Plus the fact that now I was teaching back in an American school and all these facilities. So then I started to say, "I want to do a body of work," and I wasn't quite sure. Also at that time, then I was introduced into this new material called acrylic. I had been taught as a transparent watercolorist or an oil painter, that was my tradition. And now all of a sudden I'm finding that, oh, acrylic. And I said, "Well, how do you do this?" So I kept playing around in this little dark, damp garage, and then eventually mounting a show. And this is now the show that you saw next door. It was my very first solo exhibition of my work, and all of my career. And it's very interesting, because at that time, it changed everything about the way I thought about my expansive view of what art in America was like. But I could be a bit player in all of this, especially in Fresno.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2023 Densho. All Rights Reserved.