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PW: So did you finish four years? Or no, I'm sorry, maybe two years at Fresno State? Or how long...

RO: Two years, and then I did some graduate work, but I did not extend to a graduate degree, but there some additional. Because I took a deferment at that point, I knew that then that because I was still under the Selective Service system, and I knew that the draft was still in. And because I had taken a deferment, and this was right after the Korean War, I thought, "Oh, my goodness, we're at the beginning." And so then I went to Selective Service, and so I said, "Can I anticipate then that I had these deferments from being inducted, my number might be called up?" They said, "Yeah, it probably would be pretty soon." I said, "Well, if I ask you to call my number up in the summer, that way I'd spend the two years and get out of the summer, because I didn't want to get mid-year because I knew I wanted to come back and go to school, so then that's what they did. Meanwhile, then I had tried to go ahead and take care of all that so that when I got out of school, got out of school, and then eventually was inducted in the army and spent my two years there. And came back to school and met Sandy. [Laughs]

PW: So what was the military involvement like?

RO: They're very different, they're very different. You did your basic training at Fort Ord, then you did eight weeks up at Fort Lewis, Washington, and eventually went through the Midwest to Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, and this is the first chance at visiting other parts of the country, and you realize that, oh my goodness, people are very different in different places. And so we did basic training or continued training, until I got my orders to be transferred to South Carolina. And oh my goodness, where is this? I didn't have a car or anything, so then I got my orders and went to the Greyhound Bus depot and bought a ticket and so on, so then took this bus all the way to South Carolina. And this was my first opportunity that you're on this bus, you're in uniform, and then it would stop at various places in the South. And I remember we were... someplace in Georgia, or maybe it was in Mississippi, I can't remember, the bus stopping to let off and pick up passengers so we can go off, and so then I need to go to the bathroom. My first encounter, a decision I had to make, "colored" or "white"? Where do I fit? Which one do I go to? And at that moment in time, I just thought, "Oh, my goodness." Because you didn't encounter this on the West Coast. And so I just walked into the "white" bathroom. Nobody said a thing, and maybe it's because I had a uniform on or whatever, I don't know. At that moment, you don't realize that then how naive one can be until you move into areas of the country or world where things are done very, very differently.

PW: Was there any of that kind of racial prejudice in the army?

RO: Yes. Well, then, as a result of moving, being stationed in South Carolina, we were in a small company, it was an artillery group, and what happened is that then there was a heavy water plant, which was for atomic bombs and so on, and it was 200-mile area, and we were the headquarter company there. They had then other companies that were, the sites were they had anti-aircraft guns and so on, and our job was to plot any incoming aircraft. And so we were in the small headquarters company, and so there were, another guy and I in this department took care of these kind of things about any information that went out, and any drawings and maps and so on that we were doing. So then, after a couple weeks of being there, then this other guy, he was actually from Alabama, he says, "Where'd you learn to speak such good English?" Again, what are these things when you don't realize that the people in the South, they have no idea about what Asians are like at that time, there were probably some Chinese and so on, but then it was one of those things that really surprises you. But then you hang out with a small group of people that became very close friends, and it was not uncommon for us to go and get together and have a beer. That was, again, one of those eye-openers about, someone asking me about how I learned to speak English.

PW: Were there other impressions and incidents?

RO: Other than that there were not many, even though you went off base. There was not then any kind of demonstration about "don't come here," and so on.

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