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IM: Okay. Were there any major ideological or just interpersonal...

KM: Not political at that time. Because I think the women's group actually kind of ended when the collective started becoming more important, I think. And also when politics became more, people had their own political groupings. Started doing more work in their own area. This is kind of early when people were not as integrated into specific political groups or collectives or communities, perhaps, projects like that. So no, I mean, there were probably interpersonal things as there always are, I remember Merilynne cried a lot, and people were not very patient with her. And it kind of carried over into, she was very instrumental in starting Asian Sisters because of her own background. Very vulnerable because she herself had been, had gone through a lot as a woman and has different experiences. So she started Asian Sisters, and it was a very important group because a lot of young women, she identified with them, were going through a lot, identify, self-hate, and she worked with a woman named Clara who overdosed eventually. Clara had been seeing Amy Mass. Her death impacted a lot of people. So Merilynne wanted, got funding, so this is another dilemma is that at the same time that this whole period of time, there was funding coming in, federal funding, people were saying, "Oh, that's kind of a dangerous thing," we were wary of funding coming in, because we knew that it could create problems and people were going to do things for the money versus the work, and we never did anything to be paid before.

IM: Before JACS?

KM: Uh-huh, JACS office or anything. But she applied for funding, I think it was okay, but she applied for funding for Asian Sisters. And then we said, "Well, we should have a group of people talk about the funding." And so it got a lot of people that were working in Chinatown, Yvonne Nishio, May, other people, other Japanese American women, to talk about what should be done with the funding. And suddenly it became, "Let's have a women's center with other projects and programs," and not just about drugs, not just about Asian Sisters, not just about young Japanese American women, which is Merilynne's original intent. And so people were very dominant, these voices became very dominant. And I felt, being with her in those meetings, and coming out of the drug war myself and the JA community, that that was needed. But I could hear what they were saying, but the way that it was handled was not good. Because also, perhaps it's also the way that Merilynne communicates, maybe a little bit too, "I feel sorry for myself." So she put herself in a vulnerable position and people were not very kind. So she lost that battle and it became the women's center and not Asian Sisters only. That was not a pretty scene, frankly, I think.

IM: Okay. So when people kind of shut Merilynne down, was it mostly, like who was responsible for that?

KM: I don't know if I should say this part, but they were very dominant women, most of them Chinese American women, I think. I don't remember the other voices being that strong, but they were very authoritative women that people looked up to. Me, too. And they spoke very clearly, very strongly, and very hard to contradict.

IM: So they thought maybe a women's center that is all-encompassing versus one that was solely focused on Asian women or solely focused on drug problems would be the way to...

KM: Yeah. And they were probably right, but there was a harshness to it that... and Merilynne can be hard, to be honest. She's passed away now, so maybe I feel okay saying this, but she was not easy. We bumped heads a lot, too, she could be very stubborn and very, "this is my idea, this is how it's going to be," and I was like, no. I don't want to do it that way, it was very pushy. So it became hard. Her personality wasn't easy.

IM: So a lot of things came out of this women's group that weren't just limited to having discussions on this one book or doing these skits, but it was really about this network of women who knew each other and were involved, would eventually become involved in different initiatives? Is that kind of...

KM: The women that were in it?

IM: Yeah.

KM: Yeah. I think the women that were in it did become involved in many different initiatives, because that's why they were part of the women's group, because they wanted to be involved, but they knew that women's issues were something they cared about and were seeing problems in areas of work like the JACS office, for example. Because that was one of the early areas, right? So I don't know if it continued to be a network after that, you know what I'm saying? Because I don't remember it being a network for me, I don't think. Because it was really more the people I was working with after that, or living with.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2023 Densho. All Rights Reserved.