<Begin Segment 24>

IM: Then I also wanted to follow up on how you came back to Berkeley and got involved in Asian American Studies. So you mentioned all of these guys who were involved in Asian American Studies at the time and building curriculum. I was curious about, what about the women who were involved in it. Did you feel like you could find a place in the, what seemed like a very male space?

KM: Interesting question. I don't remember the women. Maybe it was me. The men were the leaders of the class, that's true. And even these other to guys were, they were guys, Stan and Stan. Stan Abe and Stan Kodani, and Bobby Oshita. Lot of guys, huh? I frankly don't remember any of the women in the class.

IM: Do you feel like that led to some sort of, any kind of bias in the curriculum? Like they focused on the Chinese railroad workers who were the men and...

KM: You know, it wasn't even like that, because there was so little curriculum. And I think it was called... I don't know what the title was, but I know what we did. We went to a class at San Francisco State to hear the teacher there, very well-known guy that I don't hear his name now, maybe somebody knows him. And we heard Rich Wada's father who was a CRA type guy in San Francisco, talk about San Francisco J-Town. And we visited the Issei in working on a project in Japantown. And we just had people coming in to speak. There was no real curriculum. Did I read anything? I don't remember. We had a lot of talking and a lot of listening to people speak. Maybe my mind was just kind of swept up with the whole idea, and people that I feel good about for the first time, and I'm just soaking it all in. Because frankly, I don't... I just remember Neil and somebody else saying, "We want to design a Japantown or community center," and it was like, what? So I was looking at, trying to put all these ideas on paper, and I had done my best, it's huge to me.

IM: So you were soaking it all in, but were you able to kind of express yourself?

KM: I don't think so. I don't remember seeing too much. I don't remember if I had any ideas at that time, you know what I mean? It's like I didn't know anything. Yeah, I don't remember what I said. I don't remember really what we were talking about. They liked my teriyaki chicken.

IM: But you were good friends with all the guys who were...

KM: All the people in the class. Maybe they were all guys in the class. I mean, all my roommates were women, and I was very good friends with them, so it's not like I didn't have women friends, but I don't remember the presence of the women.

IM: So you never told your girlfriends, like, "Oh, you should come to this thing, we're having all these speakers come in"?

KM: We met at our place, but they were... well, one wasn't older, one was younger, actually, she was Chinese American. She was kind of like this trippy, offbeat kind of person. So she was like, hmm, she was very smart, she knew what was going on, but she was not a groupie. She wouldn't be part of that, Jane. The other two were older and they were going to, they were already in grad school studying to be teachers. And I was their younger sister kind of thing, "Oh, she's doing her thing." They were more like looking out for me. Like when I wasn't home and my parents would call, "Where's Kathy?" They'd have to make up stories about why I wasn't there.

IM: So when they were looking out for you, were there anything like... why did they have to look out for you in particular? Was there a certain sense, like, oh, maybe...

KM: Because I was staying over at my boyfriend's place, stuff like that. So then they'd have to say, "Why are you there at eight o'clock in the morning?"

IM: So in terms of relationships within the early movement, how were relationships like among your peers looked at? Like romantic relationships?

KM: Fine.

IM: It was just fine?

KM: Well, you know, because there was also that, I'm calling it sensitivity training, but I don't know what it was called. Then that was kind of a big thing. And because I was into psychology, I was also, gravitated towards that kind of stuff, too. So that whole thing about expressing feelings, I mean, yeah, getting to know people and going out together was, I think, fine, was part of what people were doing.

IM: So there were no hard feelings or love triangles?

KM: You know, I don't think I was, like I said, I think I was kind of deep into it the first half of the year, and I was not involved in any triangles, I don't know. Well, no. I don't remember those kind of things happening. Maybe I wasn't into the environment enough long enough to know that. I just got to know people, went out with some people, then had a roommate that was related to one guy and then she was (relating) to somebody else that was living at our place and caused a lot of trouble. I brought this woman in and so I felt kind of bad, because then she brought her dog in and her boyfriend, and he used to lie around a lot, and we hated him. [Laughs]

IM: So this Chinese American guy that you mentioned, took you away from Asian American Studies for a moment, how did that happen?

KM: Well, I don't think he took me. I took myself away because I always liked him, and I felt like, well, this is meant to be. So when I saw him, it was sort of like, things sort of clicked. I kind of threw myself into it, you know what I mean? And because I was not that experienced, I think, it was kind of that whole mentality of, like, everything is about this person, and he is one of those people that my sister met and kind of grilled. And then he said, "Wow, your sister."

IM: So did you ultimately approve, seal of approval from her?

KM: No, I think none of my roommates approved. They always felt, I think -- and they probably were right -- that I was throwing myself into, and everything I did, like I would probably put myself second to everything. Took care of his garden while he was gone somewhere, like going every day to water, stuff like that. And going over to his place, and he had dog poop all over, got to walk up these steps with dog poop, stuff like that. Yeah, I put myself second, I'm sure, like beck and call kind of thing.

IM: Was he older?

KM: No, we were the same age, but he was an artist, and I was totally enamored, probably.

IM: I might ask, maybe outside, more about this.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2023 Densho. All Rights Reserved.