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BN: One thing I wanted to ask you about this period is, how were you viewed by the community, by these different organizations, as a veteran, given this growing antiwar sentiment? I mean, I've heard stories from other veterans who were treated badly, for instance. Did you get any of that, or how were you seen or how were you viewed as someone who had actually been in Vietnam?

NN: When I came home, it wasn't... for me, it wasn't like people had questions. Kind of like the camp kind of thing, where you just don't talk about it. So I'm still with people that I grew up with or knew me closely or association, that I'm still Nick, and it wasn't like what happened over there.

BN: Because I just asked you about how you were seen as a veteran returning, you were talking about how it was almost like camp where people didn't really want to talk about that.

NN: Right. And politically, it was very antiwar at the time, and this was like, I guess, in the early '70s, I guess the reality was that there was, those of us who participated in the Vietnam War were basically like people of color, undereducated, probably lower income, and more or less viewed as throwaway kids. And we were all pretty young, in fact, I was, I think I turned twenty-one when I was in Vietnam. And I was probably a little bit older than all the other fellow recruits. So it's not like you see on the movies where you see these, back in the day, the John Wayne movies, and you see all these men fighting. We were kids, well, kids out there, and so getting back to, when I came back, that the emphasis about, taking a position, stand against war, that the political groups wanted to hear what was going on from vets. And so they did have things like, they called that the "winter soldier," in Detroit, and some of my friends, like, Mike Nakayama and Scott Shimabukuro went as an Asian delegation to talk, give their testimony over there, and they were able to hook up with other veterans of color over there and form some type of collective such as understanding and bond within the community organizations that they wanted to hear about what... like our training and our experience in this war, we're trained to fight and kill people that look like us. So they were very interested in speaking to us, interviewing, having us speak to other temples, kids, that may consider enlisting. And it wasn't like we were being used, but we possessed an experience that, I guess, that they felt should be shared. Like one of my good friends to this day, in fact, we went in and enlisted at the same time, Mike Nakayama, that he's a combat vet with a silver star, a couple of Purple Hearts that... so he didn't have to ship.

So he started an organization, and he ran it out of the JACS office called AMMO. Yeah, the acronym was AMMO, so it stands for Asian Movement for Military Outreach. And one of the things that we did was we had some veterans counseling, so other brothers that were coming out, and like I said, we came out individually, that we understood some isolation and issues, the confusion, the lack of any type of, being able to put things into perspective about why we were there, what we were forced to do, the power structure that put us in this predicament. We had, we got together with other veterans, and a lot of them were, after discussion, and within the community, we know just about everybody, too, that they were part of the group. So we did things where we actually had a guerrilla theater, and there were other veterans organizations like the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, which was a pretty progressive white militant veterans, that they cooperated with us and we did things like I remember we'd go to Senshin Temple, and they would have a teach-in with all the members of the temple who were there to hear about our experience in Vietnam, and basically one of the things that we did is that when we were, I think we were out in the courtyard and we were sitting, and this was called guerilla theater. And what happened is that we were sitting up there and we're talking, that the Vietnam vets, the white guys, progressive, that they came in, marching with uniforms, and they came in as if they were a grunt unit in Vietnam, just coming in and acting crazy. "Get up, get up, you motherfucker, da-da-da, get up and lay down here." And everybody was pretty freaked out watching this stuff, right? And we went along with it, so we were prisoners and did, facing atrocities and all that. And the whole intent was to say this is happening right now in villages in Vietnam. And I think it has a lot greater impact than just saying you went in and you put a match to this hooch. Might have been people inside.

So I mean, there was, I think what our position was is we weren't... our intent was not like "war is bad and we need to bring the boys home," which we didn't need to do. But more than that, it's like, "Look at what we're doing to the Vietnamese people." So it's a whole different intent. So you bring the boys home, but what are you going to do now, bomb? Which is worse, right, kind of thing? So it was always pro-Vietnam government, or people, and we have no business being in there, and all they're doing is they're fighting for their freedom, the same thing that the patriots did here in America. I mean, that was basically like our stance and our contribution to the antiwar movement.

BN: So in a sense, your veteran status gave you a greater, not license, but a greater authority in some ways, to speak on this.

NN: You know, it's kind of like the 442 to say that we fought, and this is how it should be. I mean, not quite the same, but we were given a whole different message. And in terms of relationships with other organizations, like when we came back, we weren't talking like patriotism, we're not waving the flag. If anything we were like, "Burn this thing," because it's not representative of what we believe in. So our message to a lot of youth that may have been inclined because of whatever situation, just trying to get away from something like how we were doing to enlist, was to share with him our experience and more or less discourage him. Which I recall also there were chapters of the 442, there was one chapter that somehow we ended up having a round table discussion with them. So we went out, I think we got out in Orange County. Because I think one of the things that, in hindsight growing up, that there was never any older generation pulling us aside. I take that back, there were. I had coaches that were really instrumental in my life, looking out for me and keeping me somewhat, minimizing my trouble by having me participate in the JA sports community. They were angels to me, guardian angels. But in terms of other things, like you know what, "say no to drugs," and you should consider this and that, there was nothing like that for us, nor during the Vietnam era, there was no one stating anything about, "Maybe you ought to think about this." Because maybe as a veteran of my time, it was different, and this was the honorable thing to do. This is a little bit different. I mean, there was actually nothing like that. So in terms of meeting with the 442, that at least the members that we spoke with, they're like my parents' age and stuff, they're very entrenched into their status, where we were just like butting heads, saying, "This is different." This is not an audible thing that's going on right now, and as an organization, that you should say you'd appreciate it if you would join us and say something in support of saving Asian lives. And we couldn't make headway, but I think one of their members just says, at the end of the day, heatedly going back and forth for a couple hours, I mean, we couldn't even agree to disagree. It would just be like, "Well, you know what? War is hell. Bye."

BN: Did you ever encounter any of the Nisei vet groups that were supportive of what you were doing, or was it pretty uniformly...

NN: Well, you know what? In hindsight now, there's... we talk about this thing, PTSD, that it's like a recent diagnostic, mental health issue right now. But it was like post-Vietnam. And I'm thinking about PTSD for these World War II vets, and that shit's off the chart, man. I mean, kind of hand to hand and like I got all due respect for their service. But in terms of politically, that I think we have a lot in common, more so than not in common, but I'm talking about the average GI or member of the 442 that is not there to make a name for themselves or to be the spokesperson for the community and say what, this is what you should do. And I say that in terms of, like, when they were trying to build the museum, I mean, I'm sorry, the gym over on First Street North by the Japanese American Museum. And then I guess they had that MOCA there, and they said, "No, we don't want a gym there," which was public land and we could have got, built it for free, that the elitist museum MOCA types saying, "No, that's not good, we don't want a bunch of kids running around and all that," fuck with a wine and cheese ambiance. They actually enlisted the 442 hierarchy to say that, no, we don't want the museum there because it's going to mess with our monument that we have over there. And you know what? No one even knows the monument's there, it's in the parking lot. But wouldn't it be great to have a gym there in case we come by and, "What is this?" "Hey, I see, my dad said that was his uncle's name on there." And that was not, and they were talking against the kids, against the community, and this was the 442 hierarchy. And I know that if you could have got the individual members that... because they were grand jiichans by now, and say, "You know what? You got any problem with building a gym right there next to this monument and here's the Korean vets and all that," we'd have a gym there. So there's a real difference between the muckety mucks and the heart and soul, in my opinion, anyway.

BN: Yeah, sure. I remember that.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2023 Densho. All Rights Reserved.