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VM: Thank you very much. I think the segue here will be that you're talking about how you were very much impacted by growing up in a racist environment and that is reminding me of how the Japanese American youth, the Nisei before the war were very much impacted. And so one of the things they did was to form their own clubs and sports groups, and to have their own activities, because they were so often excluded, particularly in places like Pasadena, right? And, of course, this exclusion didn't automatically end, and some of the hostilities certainly continued after the war, as we know. I'm very interested in asking about your experiences with the Theta Kappa Phi sorority, which was the second Asian American sorority founded at UCLA. I think it was founded in 1959, and I understand that you joined after you entered UCLA in 1965. And the very first was the Chi Alpha Delta, which I think was founded in 1929. So I was wondering how you decided to join the Thetas as opposed to, perhaps, the Chi Alpha Deltas?

AU: Well, first, let me back up a little bit. Because how I ended up at UCLA even had to do with my reaction to racism. I applied to three UCs, I think, Berkeley, Santa Barbara and UCLA, and also to SC. I was accepted at all the colleges, but the reason I chose UCLA was because I figured I'd have more of a social life because there was a sizeable number of Japanese Americans attending UCLA at that time. So Theta Kappa Phi was one way for me to try to have a social life. So in Pasadena there was no interracial dating. I'd had girlfriends tell me that, "Oh, so-and-so's interested in you but he won't ask you out because you're Japanese," things like that. I was kind of starved for social life and not a very intelligent reason for picking a university, but that was how I ended up at UCLA and joining Theta Kappa Phi. Now why pick Thetas over the Chis, I don't know. They had these rush activities and they tried to charm you, and so all I can think of is maybe there were a couple of women in Thetas that charmed me more than in Chis, I'm not sure. But I ended up in Thetas, as did Karen Ito, by the way. She and I were in the same pledge class.

VM: Is that where you became friends, then? Is that where your friendship developed?

AU: That's where I met Karen, yeah. And it's just so ironic, well, interesting that she ended up, she and May Chen were the first instructors of the Asian Women's class. I think maybe in '72, '73, the first class UCLA offered, that was Karen Ito. And then there was me, I mean, we both ended up being pretty political, even though Thetas was not a political group at that time. I don't know what's like now, but it was all social and I figured it was the easiest way for me to meet boys. [Laughs]

VM: So tell us more about that. What were the social activities like? You said that in your "Mountain Movers" essay, you said that you spent more time in sorority activities than your studies. So tell us about some of these social activities.

AU: The sorority had dances, and then I would also go to dances given by other groups, other sororities. So there were dances, the sorority had other internal activities. But it's interesting, I was only kind of into the sorority the first couple of years at UCLA. And then the antiwar movement was getting stronger and stronger on campus, and so that started pulling me away really from wanting to attend sorority things. And my junior year I kind of really pulled back quite a bit, and by the senior year, I don't think I was going to anything with Thetas.

VM: Were you still, were there other Thetas like Karen, though, who were also being pulled into these activities?

AU: You know, I think Karen might have been active the whole time, I'm not sure. I just know that I used to spend time at Powell Library, is where a lot of the Japanese American kids would hang out. And so I'd go there supposedly to study, but people are just kind of looking at each other and checking each other out. [Laughs] I didn't get much studying done.

VM: So did your sorority... so was the sorority mainly Japanese Americans when you were in it? Were there also other Asian Americans like Chinese Americans who were in the Thetas?

AU: We had a few non-Japanese Americans, because at that time, I think we were very reflective of the Asian American population at UCLA, which was mostly Japanese Americans at that time. This doesn't include foreign students, right? Now if you go to Theta events, I think Japanese Americans might be more of a minority and there would be many more Koreans and Chinese, Vietnamese women.

VM: There seems to be a continuing kind of friendly rivalry between the Chis and the Thetas even today, and I'm just wondering if that was the case when you joined. How did the Thetas sort of differ or perceive themselves as different from the Chi Alpha Deltas?

AU: I don't know. [Laughs] I'm sorry, I don't know. Have you heard anything? Because I know you've done some research on different groups.

VM: I will tell you after the interview. [Laughs]

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.