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BY: All right. You've alluded maybe a couple times to the "model minority" myth. I'd like to know what you think of that, or what are your thoughts on the "model minority" myth?

SS: Oh, yeah, the "model minority" myth is a way for white supremacists to divide and conquer. So the "model minority" myth is based on the idea that through hard work and diligence, anybody can make it in the United States, including people of color. And the fact that Japanese are, Americans are doing well overall economically, educationally, occupationally, they will say is proof. And it's because they worked hard and they did well in school and they didn't cause trouble, and therefore they are a "model minority." They're not white, but they succeeded because they followed the rules and they didn't rock the boat. And it's used particularly, sometimes directly, but often indirectly, to criticize other minorities: Native Americans, African Americans, Latinos. The unspoken part, or sometimes outward spoken part, even, is that if you were more like them, the "model minority," then you too could succeed. But it totally ignores the history of racism within the U.S. and the structural barriers that the racism has created, number one.

Number two is that quote/unquote "model minority" status is easily changed, which we've seen in the last two years. Whereas Asian Americans in general were considered the "model minority," but when Trump started talking about the "China Virus," "Kung Flu" stuff, and China was seen as a, more of a competitor and actually enemy nation, then we see how quickly it can turn to people being attacked on the streets and really racist things being said about people. And the other thing we know is that white nationalists and racists do not make distinctions between different Asians. If they're going to attack an Asian, they don't ask you if you're Chinese or Japanese or Korean or Thai, they just hit you or yell out an obscenity at you. So that's why you get stuff like Vincent Chin, Chinese American. These laid-off autoworkers were angry because the auto industry was going down the tubes. They don't blame the owners of the industry who made bad decisions and decided to move jobs overseas or made bad decisions, and so their company was going down, they blame Japanese auto manufacturers and therefore they blame what they see as Japanese people in general. And they see this guy that is Asian, so even though he's not Japanese, he's Chinese American, they hit him with a baseball bat and kill him.

BY: So why do you think that some Asian Americans, Japanese Americans, buy into the "model minority" myth?

SS: Oh. Because if you... because of the perks you get from it. If you buy into it and you are one of the people who have a better paying job or higher education or can live in a nicer house, then you can say that I made because, you can agree with the "model minority" myth. "I made it here because I worked harder, because I'm smarter, because I'm more diligent, because I follow the rules and I'm being rewarded for that," and justly being rewarded for that. And the unspoken thing is that other people could do the same thing if they would only work harder and follow the rules, et cetera. I think it's a historical look at things, because if you look at, like in Seattle, the redlining, the reason the International District is where it is, the reason that all Blacks were concentrated in the Central District, and the reason that most Japanese lived somewhere between the ID and the Central District was because of redlining and racial covenants. And the fact that we're not there by and large anymore, but all our institutions are, the Buddhist temple, the judo dojo, the language school, JCCW, Nisei Vets hall, is testament to the racism that created the J-towns. I think the fact that some people have escaped that kind of overt racism and prejudice, is no guarantee that they won't experience it again. And to ignore that, I think, is at everyone's peril. And it also does not help to achieve a better world, a world of greater equality and justice. Because basically you're agreeing that, yeah, there's haves and have-nots, and I'm one of the haves right now, so I'm okay with the situation as it is, the status quo suits me fine. And I think that's very short-sighted and frankly irresponsible.

BY: All right. Are there any final thoughts that you would like to share?

SS: Hmm.

BY: Is there something that comes to mind that I didn't ask you about or that, "Oh, I should have said that"?

SS: Well, so I think that to create a better world, a more just world where everyone can be treated as equals, we need to have some real systemic changes in the way we run our economy in the way we structure things. So certainly that includes things like our immigration policy and our penal system, so-called legal system. Because basically we need to transform the way we deal with immigration, with crime, with jobs and how we appropriate or divide up the social capital that's created. We're the most productive country in the world, in the history of the world, yet we have a huge number of people who live in poverty, who don't have adequate health care, and those are all social policy decisions. We can do it differently, but we choose not to. And until we transform the way we structure that, we're not going to have a just or equal, or peaceful society.

BY: And yet you seem to be the embodiment of, yes, there are these structural problems and yet individuals can do something about that. What do you think of that?

SS: Well, change, particularly social change, doesn't happen in a vacuum. Someone has to have a vision and a plan and an idea of what could be better, and then work to make it so. You can't just say, "I wish things would be better," because wishing isn't going to create change. So wherever you are, whatever you're doing, there are, have got to be some steps you can take. It can be small steps or it can be big steps, but if you can get enough people to move with you, then you can move mountains, is my belief.

BY: Great, thanks, Stan, for your time.

SS: Thank you.

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