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BN: What are you proudest of that you've done over the course... I mean, specifically in the JCCH period, not necessarily earlier in your first life?

JK: You know, that's a really interesting question. Because I think I asked myself that when I retired from the DOE, and I thought I'd done quite a few things. And I was shocked at the answer that came back at me. I think I asked the question, "What is my deepest joy from all that I've been doing?" And it centered on this one kid that I had actually helped. This kid was having difficulty in school, he was having learning problems because there were other things on his mind, but he wanted to be a library aide. And I said, "Okay," but I knew that he couldn't live up to the rules like, "Be on time, you come and help." And so I just kind of forgave a lot of that. And then, you know, I used to get a monitor every day, a kid would come and help me through the day. And so one day I got this kid, and he wasn't a talker either. So I said, "You know, there's not a class coming now. It's a good time for us to put up the Christmas decorations." And he said, "Okay." And so I gave him a pile and I took a pile. And because he was doing something that made him happy, he started to chatter. And I began to find out about, you know, he had a good mom, and she had a boyfriend. And he was okay, but when he drank, he wasn't okay. And he said, "Last night, he threw my mom against the wall." And I thought, oh god, no wonder. And I wasn't talking, and he was just talking to the wall. And so he said, he runs around, he doesn't fight, he runs around and he lets it out that way. And I thought, oh god, and here we are, us supposed smart faculty, telling kids, "Don't run around because you might get hurt." And this kid needed to. And then he came with his class one day and he acted up. I got on his case, and he took off, he had to run. So when he came back, he wouldn't talk to me, and so I talked to his back and I said, "You know, Eric, I didn't like what you did, but I'll always like you. I want you to know that." He went out, and I thought, okay. But the end of the year came, and I was having a party for my library aides. And the fool that I am, I said, "What do you guys want to eat?" And they told me, "Pizza, ice cream, soda." I said, "Where are the carrots?" and they said, "Nah." [Laughs] And I said, "Well, I asked you and you told me so I have to do it." So I did. I got them all that sugar, and they ran crazy in the library. And I thought, oh. And then I noticed there's somebody still sitting at the table, and I turned around and I looked, and it was Eric. And he looked at me and he smiled and he said, "Bad behavior, yeah." [Laughs] I said, "Yeah," but oh well, it's a party. And then I knew that I had... usually I don't say the right thing, but at that moment, I had said the right thing, and that was my deepest joy. And throughout the whole twenty-three years, and even to this day, I said, yeah, that gave me so much joy. And the same reason it gave me that same kind of joy when my grandson, who was having his ups and downs with his mom, said to me, "Well, my pretend mother thinks I'm a good boy," and he smiled. And I said, "Okay, I'm good for something." [Laughs] And that's true, deep joy, deep down. My husband could do it much better than I could, but he taught me a lot.

BN: How would you like to be remembered in years to come? When people ask, "Tell me about Jane."

JK: Maybe the same way that I'm remembering my mom now. My mom was kind of a quiet person. I mean, she definitely said, "Dad is boss," you know, as far as she was concerned. She passed away very suddenly. So my dad wanted a private funeral. And in the days when there were no such things as private funerals, and so people were calling us angry as can be, "What do you mean it's private? You mean I can't come? I want to come." You know, and finally, I told dad, I said, "Dad, it isn't working." But he wouldn't back off. So finally when I answered the phone, I just said, "Oh, just come, we'd love to have you." And so when we went to the funeral -- this is at Makiki Christian Church -- the church was full. And then that made me realize what my mom's strength was. It was her kindness, and these people had to come. And my husband had to come up and say thank you for the family. When he sat down, he said, "There's not a dry eye in the place." And I remember my mom, and she didn't care who you were. If you needed kindness, she did... my cousin, he had a good heart, but he worked for a bank. And his friend needed money, and so he said, "Oh, we'll borrow some from the bank." But that's called embezzling, but he didn't know that. he wanted to help his friend, and so he ended up in jail. And my mom, I remember she took me. She says, "Come, we're going." And I said, "Where are we going?" "We're going to prison." And we went to prison and we bought a goodie bag for him. She wanted me to see that she was doing that. And I'm not as kind as she was, but I try. And I think if I... I think that would be nice, if some of it showed. [Laughs]

BN: Definitely, as well as a lot of other things. Yeah, thank you so much. We could go on, but I know a lot of it was covered, so I could ask some other things. We've already gone well over two hours, so I don't want to keep you too much longer, but is there anything else you'd like to add before we conclude?

JK: Well, I'd like to add that we thoroughly enjoyed the years you spent with us in putting up with our jokes, our bad jokes. I think you were, again, that you were here at a time when it was the right time, because the right things happened.

BN: Thank you for not using the s-word there.

JK: [Laughs] Yes, I tried hard not to.

BN: It was a great time to be here and I learned so much from you and Betsy and all the other volunteers. And I say this often, but I totally believe it. That all of you were, would be CEOs and lawyers and doctors and so forth had you been born twenty or thirty years later. Not... I don't mean to insult what you did do, it was so much. And in this setting, you were allowed to really show the fullness of your abilities, which were so considerable. And I think that's why these projects got as far as they did.

JK: I really appreciated that, you know, about being allowed to use whatever we had to offer in a way that made a difference. I really appreciated that.

BN: Thank you very much.

JK: Thank you.

BN: Thanks for sitting down with us.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.