Densho Digital Repository - Mary Okazaki Kozu Interview

Densho Digital Repository
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Mary Okazaki Kozu Interview
Narrator: Mary Okazaki Kozu
Interviewer: Barbara Yasui
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: April 28, 2022
Densho ID: ddr-densho-1000-511

<Begin Segment 1>

BY: Today is April 28, 2022, and I'm doing an interview with Mary Okazaki Kozu at the Lakeshore retirement community in Seattle, Washington. I'm Barbara Yasui and here with me is Dana Hoshide who is doing the videography. All right, so thank you, Mary, for agreeing to speak with us. I want to start with a little bit of background information. So can you tell me when and where you were born?

MK: I was born here in Seattle on June 14, 1931, and I was born at home.

BY: So did a midwife deliver you?

MK: Yes.

BY: Do you know who that was? Has anybody ever said?

MK: (Sumi Tajiri, midwife).

BY: Okay. And what was the name that your parents gave to you when you were born?

MK: It was Mary Hideko Okazaki.

BY: Okay. So Hideko was your Japanese middle name.

MK: Yes.

BY: And what were you called growing up?

MK: At home I was called Hide, of course, being Japanese. But my siblings, they used both names, but mostly Hide because my parents called me Hide.

BY: But when were you called Mary? At school, or when?

MK: Yes, at school.

BY: How about the neighbor kids? What did they call you?

MK: They called me Mary. Yeah, didn't call me... I was called Hideko just at Japanese school.

BY: Okay, or at home by your parents then.

MK: Yeah.

BY: Okay. And so I want to talk a little bit about your father and mother. What was your father's name?

MK: Kazuo Okazaki.

BY: And do you know where and when he was born?

MK: In Okayama, Japan.

BY: Uh-huh. And do you know what year?

MK: 1890.

BY: Okay, all right. And you say Okayama. In the Okayama-ken, do you know the, like, village or city or town?

MK: No, I don't know that, but I know he was on a small rice farm.

BY: So his family owned a small rice farm?

MK: Yes.

BY: So they were a farming family?

MK: Yes.

BY: Okay, all right. And when did he come to the U.S. and why did he come?

MK: Well, he came because he had two older brothers who were sent here to make money and to help pay for the farm. And apparently they both worked for a lumber mill, and they learned wine and women. You know, they stopped sending the money, and so the mother was the strong one, my father always worshipped her because she was strong. She met with creditors each month or whenever they came, and they said, oh, they will send the money but it didn't happen. So she finally had to get a way to get money (...). And (my father) had an older sister, six years older, who had married somebody who was twenty years older than her by an arranged marriage. And so my grandmother, my father's mother, asked the son-in-law if he would sponsor him as being his parents because of the age difference. So that he could go, you know, come to America. And so with some coaching he agreed to it. And so that's how he came over.

BY: So just, I just want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly. So this was your father's older sister's husband.

MK: Yes.

BY: Who was twenty years older than your father's sister, who agreed to sponsor your father to come to America?

MK: And my mother told me later that this man had a brother the same age as my father, but he opted to sponsor him, so my mother always marveled that he would agree to let my father be his son.

BY: So in other words, he didn't pick his own, he didn't choose to sponsor his own brother. Instead he chose to sponsor his wife's brother. And do you know his name, by any chance?

MK: No, I don't know. Oh, the man who...

BY: The man who sponsored you.

MK: His last name was Shiraishi, but I don't remember his... and he passed away when I was six.

BY: Oh, so you don't really remember him.

MK: No. But the only thing I remember is his cremation at Butterworth. I could still see it. I was six or so, and they held me up to a window to see the cremation. And at my age, I was just frightened but scared to say anything because they were all taking their turns and they lifted me. But it's always stayed with me.

BY: It's very vivid in your memory. Well, something like that would be. So then do you know what happened to your father's two older brothers? Did they stay in the U.S. or did they go back to Japan?

MK: I never heard, and my father never talked about them. It was my mother who told me all this.

<Begin Segment 2>

BY: And so your father then is sixteen years old, he's in the U.S. He's the one who, then he was the one who sent money back to his parents in Japan, all for many, many years?

MK: And so he ended up with the property.

BY: Oh, so he inherited the rice farm in Japan?

MK: Yeah, he inherited it. And this I remember after the war, when the returned to Seattle, he asked my older sister -- I had four older sisters, and I don't know which ones were in the conversation. But I do remember overhearing that he, my father asked if any of them wanted to keep the property in Japan or let his nephew or whoever, take it over, and my sisters, they didn't want it. So he did give it to them.

BY: To a nephew or somebody else then?

MK: So his nephews, one of them, or I don't know which relative got it.

BY: Interesting. All right, so then, so your father's sixteen years old. He comes to the U.S., he's pretty young, he's a teenager.

MK: Yeah, I think he was sixteen. I'm going to figure it out.

BY: So do you know what he did when he came to the U.S.?

MK: Yeah. He went to work at that lumber mill.

BY: Oh, same one where his brothers were?

MK: Yeah.

BY: Okay.

MK: And then he started, and his brothers (told their boss) they'll take his paycheck. And so when payday came, my father didn't get a check (...). So they took his checks, so he had to talk to the manager or whoever it was and get the money himself, because they were taking his check.

BY: Wow, they were really not very supportive of their family or their younger brother at all.

MK: No, no, he didn't care. I think it was a nice escape from them.

BY: Okay, that's interesting. So then did he continue to stay at the lumber mill or did he go somewhere else after that?

MK: I don't know the timespan, but he ended up at a junk place sorting junk stuff. I don't know what kind, but in fact, he worked there and then started his own junk company.

BY: And was that in, where was that?

MK: Here in Seattle.

BY: In Seattle, okay.

MK: Yeah, there's a picture of his truck.

BY: Oh, the Togo company?

MK: Yeah, Togo junk company.

<Begin Segment 3>

BY: All right. Let's skip to your mom right now. So what was your mother's name and where was she born?

MK: Tatsu, T-A-T-S-U. She was born in Okayama in that area, and I don't know... the only thing I know about that is when she came off of the boat as a bride, my father's first words to her were, "Oh, I thought it was going to be your sister," her older sister his age. And my mother was two years younger than him, and I knew, or she told me that it was real insulting to her. So she remembered it throughout her life.

BY: That she was not the one that your father was expecting then?

MK: Yeah. And of course, that was the first thing he told her. [Laughs]

BY: Oh, yeah, not very tactful. And what was her last name?

MK: Suzuki.

BY: Okay, so Tatsu Suzuki.

MK: Yeah.

BY: Okay, all right. And so then obviously they didn't know each other then. Was it an arranged marriage?

MK: Arranged marriage.

BY: Okay, all right. Do you know, did the two families know each other in Japan?

MK: Yeah, I think somehow, I think my brother had a map that they were related somehow. There was a diagram, so somehow they're related.

BY: Okay. So probably from the same village or area in Okayama, okay. And so do you know, did they... often people who were in arranged marriages would have sort of a legal marriage in Japan and then they would have another marriage in the U.S. Do you know what happened with your...

MK: No, I don't know the details.

BY: Okay, so you don't know anything about that. Okay.

<Begin Segment 4>

BY: So what was your father like? Tell me a little bit about his personality.

MK: He was very dominant, of course. But he wasn't a scholar at all. Yeah, I think he just went to the eighth grade, and I never saw him reading books or anything. But he was full of energy, very energetic person. And gosh, he actually couldn't just even stay still, I mean, to a degree. He started the furniture store, but then he didn't stay there. He left it to a shirttail relative who was an accountant and left it up to him. And he went out and he went to the rich people's homes in Windermere and Laurelhurst to buy all their furnishings because they were downsizing and moving to apartments downtown. And so I used to be... he used to take me along on weekends. And so I would sit in the car and wait at these rich people's homes just waiting and waiting for him to come back.

BY: Did you ever get to go inside to any of those homes?

MK: Oh, no. It was strictly business. And he took me for the ride, and after he came out, the next thing was going to the drive-in and eating. He loved to eat American food.

BY: So like a hamburger or something like that?

MK: Yeah. There weren't that many of them, but he would take me there. And then we would go to the car wash.

BY: They had car washes then?

MK: Yeah, they had car washes, you know, where they did a lot of the work, I remember.

BY: So what was his, so it sounds like he was a very busy person, always doing something hardworking. Tell me about his personality. Was he a quiet person, a loud person, a person who shared a lot of information about himself or kept things to himself?

MK: No.

BY: What was he like?

MK: Not to me. He had a lot of family meetings and Joy's father, my brother, four years older, he had to watch me, so he was always cut out of the family meetings he would have, because he said I would just get in the way. So my brother would play with me while they had their meetings because I'm the youngest of seven.

BY: So by family meetings you mean your father and mother and your older siblings would have these meetings?

MK: Yeah, he would lecture them on getting married and, you know, all those things. So I didn't know what went on, but poor Joy's father was always left out because he had to play with me.

BY: And so it sounds like your father was in many ways a traditional Japanese man, that he was the authority figure, the head of the family, and took care of...

MK: Very much so. And then he was active at the church, at the Nichiren church. But he never liked to be the head of it, like an officer or anything. But he liked to participate financially. And what I remember my mother always saying, she was real frugal, of course, with that money, and she would complain that he always wanted to not lose out to the next person. Like donations, he always wanted to know what the majority was giving, and be a part of that. But other than that, I don't remember him ever being the officer and that he loved that.

BY: So he was a supporter.

MK: So he always, I think that he felt that he didn't have the education. But he did have a good business.

BY: Sounds like absolutely he did.

MK: Yeah. Because like he...

BY: Started all these businesses.

MK: Yes. And then he would have somebody manage.

<Begin Segment 5>

BY: Okay, so tell me about your mother. What was she like?

MK: She was a bundle of energy. We had, everyone thought it was a huge home. We had a place that had single men living in the rooms. So it was three stories, so everyone, if you looked at the picture, you would see that it looks like... and it had a large garden and grass. And so she had to take care of changing the sheets weekly and cleaning and then she ran the secondhand store when my father bought the furniture and furnishings. He took the large items to the Bushell auction house, and they would sell it for him. And the small things like glassware, dishes, all that, he opened up a store. So she took care of that. She sold all the small items.

BY: So then you're saying that there actually were two different stores. So there was the...

MK: Furniture.

BY: Furniture store and this other...

MK: Secondhand store.

BY: And do you know where either of those stores were located?

MY Yes. They were at Ninth and Jackson.

BY: Both of them?

MK: The furniture store was large, and her store was across the street and it had a small frontage, but she had a lot of merchandise. And so she was busy all day long. [Laughs]

BY: So she was not only running the boarding house, essentially, and running the secondhand store, but also raising a bunch of kids at the same time?

MK: Seven of us.

BY: So what was her personality like?

MK: She was more curt. She didn't smile all that much, she was so busy.

BY: But it sounds like she talked to you. She told you lots of stories or lots of things about your father and all of that.

MK: Well that she did because she was left with Frank, my brother, and me. Because with the war, it actually saved my sisters, my oldest brother was drafted in the first draft because he had gone to college, gotten his degree, but he couldn't get a job in foreign trade. So the furniture store was in his name. And then I think he graduated in 1939 and in the first draft, army draft, was held on June of 1941 and he was drafted. So when Pearl Harbor occurred, he was in the military. And he was at home.... well, he was in the furniture store with the assistant getting the showcase. It was a big corner showcase, ready with toys for Christmas. They sold... they didn't sell the small toys. They had the bicycle and the wagon and I remember they were paid... and I was there. I used to always go. They didn't want me in the store when it was open, but when it was closed, I was allowed to go in. And they were playing the music and then they cut in about Pearl Harbor. So he had to report back.

BY: We're going to get to that.

<Begin Segment 6>

BY: So I want to actually back up a little bit and find out more information about your brothers and sisters. So can you tell me the names of all your siblings starting with the oldest and maybe how much older they were than you? Or if you know the year that they were born. So starting with the oldest one, who was that?

MK: Well, my brother Taka, (Takaaki).

BY: Okay. And how much older was he?

MK: Sixteen years.

BY: Sixteen years older.

MK: Than me.

BY: Oh, okay, that's a big difference then. And he was the one who was in the army?

MK: Yeah, and he was killed in France.

BY: (Okay, all right. And then next was...)

MK: (Kiyoko, Kiyo, fourteen years older than me.)

BY: (What was your second sister's name?)

MK: (Emiko, Amy, twelve years older than me.)

BY: (What was the third sister's name)?

MK: (Well, it was Sumiye. She added Dorothy as her first name. She was ten years older than me. Then my mother lost a son at birth, Yasuo was his name. And then my sister Miyoko, Miyo, was born.)

[Interruption]

MK: (My brother Frank, Kazumi, was four years older than me.)

BY: (So he was the one who was four years older than you, the one who took care of you all the time.)

MK: (Yeah. He was four years... I was born in '31, he was born in '27.)

BY: And you were the baby?

MK: Yeah.

BY: Were you spoiled, do you know?

MK: Oh, yeah. Gosh, (my sisters), they used to fight over me. And then so my arm would get out of joint. And so I remember at least two times, I had to go to a masseuse, Japanese masseuse, and had to have my arm on a sling.

BY: You mean they dislocated your arm?

MK: Yeah.

BY: Oh, my goodness.

MK: Yeah, because they would pull, I guess. But I remember wearing that, and it was the man who took care of all the judo people, judo and... he was the head athletic person.

BY: So he was like a sports medicine doctor or something like that.

MK: Yeah, because he lived up the street. And so I remember having my arm in a sling several times.

BY: Okay, all right. Wow, that's interesting. That seems like pretty, they're pretty possessive of you then, or something. [Laughs]

MK: Yeah, so Shirley Temple happened, so I had Shirley Temple doll, you know, a doll, and they would curl my hair.

BY: My gosh, wow.

MK: I was their toy.

BY: Interesting.

<Begin Segment 7>

Okay, so I want to go back and find out a little bit more about the house that you lived in. So it was a large three-story house. Where was it? Where was it located?

MK: It was at Weller Street, 819 Weller.

BY: So Eighth and Weller.

MK: Yeah, so it was just two blocks from the furniture store on Jackson.

BY: Oh, okay. And your parents owned the home or did they rent it, do you know?

MK: No, he owned it.

BY: He owned it?

MK: He owned it.

BY: And then so three stories. Can you tell me roughly, each floor, what was on each floor and who lived there? So the first floor was...

MK: On the first floor it was all single men in small rooms. And then on the second floor our family took over with a living room and... it was not a dining room, but a big living room and the kitchen, and a couple of bedrooms, two bedrooms or so.

BY: And who lived in those two bedrooms?

MK: You know, it varied. At one time I remember that my parents lived there, and I was there. And then my oldest brother always had a room on the following, on the third floor by himself.

BY: Okay. And then how about all the other girls? Where did they...

MK: Yeah. About three of them lived in one room on the third floor, too.

BY: And what about Frank?

MK: I'm trying to figure out where... he didn't live with my oldest brother, I don't know where, but Frank ended up in that room (eventually).

BY: When your brother left, right.

MK: Yeah. But that's all I remember.

BY: So the single men who lived in the house just lived on the first floor?

MK: On the first floor, none of the family, but they were all single rooms with single men.

BY: Right, right. So were there any, did the single men live any other place in the house, or just on the first floor?

MK: No, on the third floor (too).

BY: Oh, more?

MK: It was mixed with our family. And we didn't have a bathroom on the second... yeah, all the rooms on the basement, first floor, had just one bathroom. And so on our floor, we never had a toilet.

BY: So was it an outhouse?

MK: No, we had to share it with the tenants.

BY: On the third floor?

MK: [Nods]

BY: Oh, I see.

<Begin Segment 8>

MK: But my father had a Japanese bath (built). We had to go through the window, climb through the window, and he had a Japanese...

BY: Like an ofuro?

MK: Yeah. So we had to climb in and out of the bath. And the window stayed, so when we didn't use it, it closed, so you have to crawl. [Laughs]

BY: Did he build the ofuro, do you know?

MK: Hmm?

BY: Did he make the ofuro?

MK: Oh, no. He had carpenters work on the house.

BY: That sounds pretty nice, actually, to have an ofuro out your window. [Laughs]

MK: But we never had a toilet on that floor.

BY: Yeah, that's hard.

MK: So we always had to share a toilet with the...

BY: The tenants.

MK: ...with the tenants.

BY: So how many tenants were there at any given time, would you say?

MK: I would say I know there was at least eight downstairs.

BY: Wow, that's quite a few tenants.

MK: Yeah, because there were just single rooms with gas plates.

BY: And did your mother cook for all of those people, too?

MK: Oh, no, they cooked for themselves.

BY: Oh, they did? Okay.

MK: Yeah, she had to cook for just us.

BY: Okay. But she was in charge of cleaning and doing the laundry and all of that.

MK: Yeah, just the sheets. So I don't know how they did their laundry. They were responsible themselves.

BY: Yeah, wow. That's very, very interesting. So your mother was busy, I can see.

MK: And then it even had an attic, the house, so I remember staying there at night sometimes, on summer nights.

BY: In the attic?

MK: Yeah, in the attic. And that's where we stored our belongings.

<Begin Segment 9>

BY: So you were the youngest of seven children. You said that you were pretty spoiled. Were you close to, say, Frank, who was your next oldest brother, you said he took care of you a lot. Were you, the two of you very close then?

MK: Yeah. I wasn't close, but my sisters were close to each other, and I never was. Because the closest one was six years older, and Frank always was with me.

BY: So you were good friends with Frank, but you didn't...

MK: No, they never...

BY: Although they fought over you, it sounds like, the older sisters, fought over you when they dislocated your arm?

MK: Oh, yeah, so I must have played (a lot with them), but other than that, I never associated (with them).

BY: So here you are the youngest of seven kids. Did you have any responsibilities as a child, like things that you had to do? Your chores or anything like that, that you can recall?

MK: No, not at the house. Oh, I counted the sheets every week, the dirty sheets for the laundry to take to a commercial laundry.

BY: Oh, okay.

MK: So I did things like that.

BY: Okay, all right.

MK: There was even a small house on the property behind our house, that there was a house, a small house with a couple of rooms, that he leased out monthly.

BY: So lots of tenants then.

MK: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 10>

BY: Okay. So growing up, you're living in, pretty much in the heart of Japantown, is that right then? So who were your friends growing up?

MK: Well, Mich Inouye was my best friend, and she lived about a block and a half away. And they rented a home from the Merlinos, Italian family that they used to sell olive oil. Anyway, they had a home, they lived in a private home. So it was real exciting for me because it was just a regular family home, and they would let me come and stay overnight, so I was a part of the family. But I could never invite her because I had to share wherever I slept with the family.

BY: Your house had a lot of people living in it. And so her name was Mich, was that short for Michiko or something like that?

MK: Yeah, Michiko Inouye.

BY: Michiko Inouye, so she was your best friend.

MK: Yes.

BY: And tell about the other houses or the other families that lived near your house? Were they all owned by Japanese?

MK: Yeah, but there weren't very many homes, as such, but there were some.

BY: So who lived on your block? Describe the other...

MK: Oh, it was a dairy, a Japanese dairy, White River Dairy next door to us.

BY: So it was a dairy farm?

MK: No, they sold bottled milk, so it was a bottling (company)... yeah, and they delivered. And so I got all my milk there. I had to go and cling on the bottle to get help and get my milk next door.

BY: Okay, all right.

MK: So actually, we were in a more commercial place living without too many homes.

BY: Okay. And what school did you go to?

MK: I went to Bailey Gatzert, which was just three blocks away, so we just walked up there.

BY: And so Mich was your age? Was she your age?

MK: She was a year older.

BY: So then you, would you go to school with her, though, even though she was a year older, do you remember?

MK: No. I went to school with Yasuko Aratani.

BY: And did she live near you then?

MK: Yeah, she was two blocks down. She lived in Chinatown.

BY: Okay, all right.

<Begin Segment 11>

BY: And so talk about Bailey Gatzert at little bit. I know that a lot of Japanese American kids went there, so what was it like going to Bailey Gatzert?

MK: Oh, I was at home with them because there were a lot of my friends, they were my friends. And I don't remember the Caucasian classmates if we had any, but I remember we had one Black boy in our class. He was real nice, and the majority were Japanese and Chinese.

BY: Okay. And how about your teachers? Were they white or were they Japanese or Chinese?

MK: No, they were all white Americans, Caucasians.

BY: And how... what did you think? Did you like your teachers, did you like school, or what are your memories of school?

MK: Oh, it was fine, but they were strict and I know the last one we had in the beginning of the sixth grade, she was very firm and one of those that hit you with a ruler on your hand and stuff. And so everyone was scared of her. And one day I know she asked me to stay after class, and so everybody turned around and looked, and I thought, oh, gosh, did I write a note to somebody? And you know, she knew my parents owned the furniture store and that they were closing. She says, "Do you think your mother could give me a broom from her store for use in my garden?" I mean, here I was sweating it out after thinking, I wonder what I'm being held for. And it just left such an impression on me, and it was just that. So when I told my parents, they sent me to, back the following day with two brand new brooms from the other new store that sold the furniture.

BY: So this was, we'll get Pearl Harbor a little bit later, but this was after Pearl Harbor then, right before you were going to be...

MK: Yeah.

BY: Oh, interesting, very interesting.

MK: But that's the biggest impression that left on me, because I was so scared that I was really in trouble.

BY: In trouble, yeah. So you said that your father was involved with the Nichiren church. What do you remember about either church activities or other Japanese community activities? Do you remember picnics or activities like that?

MK: We always went to the church picnics and kenjinkai picnics, and they were all held at the Lincoln Park in West Seattle.

BY: So both of your parents were from Okayama-ken. Did they tend to hang out mostly with other Okayama-ken families or just everybody?

MK: No, they stuck pretty much... because a lot of them were members of the Nichiren church, too.

BY: So they kind of all stuck together?

MK: So we knew of them from way back. As family...

<Begin Segment 12>

BY: So what would you say, thinking back to your childhood before the war, what were your favorite childhood memories?

MK: Oh, gosh, I remember going to the World's Fair in San Francisco.

BY: Really? When was that?

MK: Well, in 1939.

BY: And who did you go with?

MK: I went, my mother took me and my aunt, the one who sent for my father, she took her daughter who was the same age as my older sisters.

BY: How did you get there?

MK: You know, I'm trying to figure out whether we caught the train. We must have caught the train.

BY: So it was sort of a girls trip, that it was your mother and her sister-in-law and your female cousin and you, just the four of you?

MK: Yeah. I remember that. And I remember things about the fair.

BY: What do you remember about it?

MK: I remember there was a big sign about Sally Rand, who was a stripper. [Laughs] Because the sign was so big and it's a picture of her.

BY: Is that the farthest away from home you had ever been?

MK: Oh, no. I've traveled quite a bit.

BY: No, no, when you were a little kid, though?

MK: Yeah. As a youngster, yes.

BY: So what did you think about the World's Fair besides Sally Rand? Were you surprised or scared?

MK: No, it was fun watching, looking at everything because I'd never been to anything like that. I've been to the Puyallup Fair, but this was really at Treasure Island, and I remember things about that.

BY: Okay. So you remember what you ate by any chance?

MK: No.

BY: Okay, I was just wondering if there was some fair food or were there rides or games or do you remember?

MK: That's what I can't remember. And I'm thinking, because I was traveling with an older cousin, I don't think we went in for rides. There was no one my age, so we did more touring.

BY: Yeah. That sounds like a great adventure.

MK: But I know that a classmate remembered that I gone. [Laughs] Before I, one day she said, "You know what I remember?" And she told me.

BY: Oh, that you went to San Francisco.

MK: That she remembered.

BY: Oh, that's great. So did you go to Japanese language school?

MK: Yes.

BY: Okay, tell me about that a little bit.

MK: Well, a lot of them, of course, were the same class, so we walked after church, I mean, after our Bailey Gatzert, we walked there.

BY: How many times a week did you go there?

MK: Five days.

BY: Five days a week. And is this the Japanese language school that's still up there on Weller? Yeah, okay. So you went every day?

MK: I think it was five days after. In fact, I ended up with Nobi Yutani who moved here. He was a classmate at Bailey Gatzert and the Japanese school. It's funny we'd end up together again.

BY: So what did you think of it? Did you like it or not like it?

MK: You know, I just went for two years. I was in my third year. I liked it. And then I remember I got an honors thing. So I got a whole new outfit, I remember.

BY: You got a special award or something?

MK: Yeah, I guess if you get a certain grade or something, and I remember getting a new coat and a new dress.

BY: Wow. As kind of a reward for doing well? Oh, okay, great.

<Begin Segment 13>

BY: All right, we're going to talk a little bit about Pearl Harbor. So you started to tell me that on Pearl Harbor, on that day, that your brother was at the store arranging the display. You said you were there, too?

MK: Yeah.

BY: What were you doing?

MK: Oh, I was playing on the, a bicycle or something. Because I couldn't do anything else, but I just remember the radio playing and the announcement, and I know my brother hurriedly got ready to go back to Fort Lewis.

BY: Because he was on leave from Fort Lewis?

MK: Yeah, for the weekend.

BY: And was helping get the store ready for Christmas? And so he went back.

MK: He had to go back. They kept announcing (on the radio) an all military return to your base.

BY: And was there anyone else at the store with you at the time, you and your brother?

MK: Yeah. I think one of the workmen who delivered.

BY: And do you remember when you went home, do you remember your father or mother or your older siblings talking about what had happened?

MK: No, but I know my father was worried he would get picked up. Because there was talk about...

BY: And why did he think that he would get picked up?

MK: Oh, because he was a businessman and he donated to all the Japanese things. And so he was worried about that. But he wasn't active, but for days after that, he stayed away from the house and he would call. I don't know where...

BY: Do you know where he went?

MK: Well, I think he might have gone to his sister, my aunt's, I think, rather than staying at home.

BY: Because he thought they would come to his house?

MK: Yeah, thinking that they wouldn't find him or something. I just remember him calling.

BY: Do you remember other Issei men getting picked up and taken away at that time?

MK: No.

BY: You don't? Okay.

MK: I think I did one. I think it was my girlfriend's father, he was active at one of those Japanese clubs. And I think he was taken that day. Other than that, it was... I just remember. And I know they came into, I have a picture of the Seattle Times coming to the store.

BY: To the Togo store?

MK: Yeah. Because my father, as soon as it happened, there was talk about evacuation. He had a sign maker post a big sign on the show window with my brother's picture saying that this store is owned by him, and he's in the military.

BY: Do you have a picture of that?

MK: Uh-huh.

BY: Oh, I would love to see that. That sounds like an important...

MK: It's not a good picture but it's a picture from the Seattle Times. I'm looking at the sign.

BY: So it was in the Seattle Times and it's a picture of you looking at the sign?

MK: Yeah, uh-huh.

BY: I'd be very interested. Do you have a copy of that?

MK: Yeah, I have that. And I remember the newsreel had a picture of (...) my sisters carrying suitcases or something out of our house when they announced our evacuation. So I remember going, they (looked) in the newspapers to find out which theater it would be shown at. And I remember seeing that.

BY: So it was a newsreel.

MK: Yeah.

BY: Wow, I wonder if Densho has that. That sounds all so very interesting. So other than the teacher who wanted the broom, what was the reaction, say, the next day, the day after the bombing of Pearl Harbor, on Monday, when you went back to school? Do you remember?

MK: Oh, our school principal was so (concerned) for the Japanese (students). She said firmly that nothing was to happen to the Japanese students. Because I don't know when it took place, but the Chinese students started coming (to school) wearing a "China" pin. And she said those do not belong on them. Yeah, she was very firm about that and protecting the Japanese students.

BY: Okay. And your teachers as well were supportive, you feel like?

MK: Yeah.

BY: So what were your feelings? You were nine or ten years old. Were you scared, were you worried, do you remember how you felt?

MK: You know, actually, I guess I didn't even think about all that. Because I have such a big family, I guess, and I was always left out of conversations and stuff. So I didn't really, I don't think I paid attention to that.

<Begin Segment 14>

BY: All right. So then the announcement comes that your family and other Japanese Americans are going to be, going to have to leave their homes and go someplace else. Do you remember that time? What did your family do to get ready to leave? Do you remember how your parents felt at that time, just that whole...

MK: No, everybody was so busy, I remember, I just stayed out of the way. But I figured it didn't affect me to that effect because I didn't have to do anything, I guess.

BY: Do you remember having to decide what you were going to... like were there toys or dolls or anything that, when you personally had to make a decision or a choice about what to take with you?

MK: No, nothing about that. But I do know we moved because my father, his sister who sponsored. He felt responsible for her all her life. They were real close. And she was dependent on him because her husband died. And so we moved to their crowded house to get evacuated with...

BY: Oh, so he wanted to be with her so that when you were...

MK: Yeah. When they found out they had different days for different areas. So I remember we lived there for a day or two or whatever so that we would go (together). So I ended up at Puyallup without my friend like Mich Inouye because they went on a different day and ended up in a different area.

BY: I see. Now did your aunt, so did she have a bunch of kids then?

MK: What?

BY: Your aunt and uncle. Your father's sister, did she have a bunch of children?

MK: No, she had three and they died fairly early. She ended up with one.

BY: Okay, so when you move to her house for a few days then, it was all of your family. Well, actually, talk about this. So your brother was gone. Were all your sisters at home at that time?

MK: (No, Dorothy had moved to work in Washington, D.C.)

BY: Oh, you were all there.

MK: Yeah, so I often wondered where we slept, because I remember it's a small house. And I think they were renting it, unless my father bought it, because he always, she came first. When the mushroom season started, she got it first.

BY: So he was very devoted.

MK: Very devoted to a point where she was... you know, she just deserved everything and she always appreciated it so much.

BY: Do you feel... was your mother upset by that at all, do you think, or not?

MK: No. Well, she kind of resented it, but then she knew...

BY: Why, yeah. Okay, so what did your father do at that time? What did he do about the house and all his businesses right before you went to Puyallup to make arrangements for that?

MK: You know, I don't know what he did, but it ended up that he found a Caucasian lady from Everett to take over the house to rent it, take care of it. And on the furniture store, he was on rented property, I'm assuming, so I don't know what happened. They had a big sale.

BY: Yeah, I was going to ask about that. Do you remember that?

MK: I remember he had a removal sale, big sign, I remember that. But he might have sold a lot. He was real good friends with this Bushell auction (company). I think it was a Jewish family, brothers or something, that ran it, because he learned some Jewish words... but I'm thinking they must have helped somehow to (auction) furniture there.

BY: Right. Because he must have had a lot of stuff. I mean, he had the house and stores and all the stuff. Did he have a car?

MK: Oh, yeah. He always had a (car so)... I always thought, everybody had cars. And somebody told me, "Everybody doesn't have a car." [Laughs] Because my father always had a car and we had two trucks.

BY: Do you remember what happened to the car and the trucks?

MK: No. And I was, like I said, I was left out of everything and just had to stay out of the way. So Frank always had to watch me for everything.

MK: What a good big brother he was.

BY: Did you have any pets?

MK: No. We weren't allowed to because there were so many strays. So to this day, I won't touch a dog or a cat. I'm scared of them.

BY: Interesting.

MK: You know, because we lived in a place (with tenants), and I'm sure some of them had animals. But my parents wouldn't allow us to have them. And they didn't like cats and dogs either.

BY: Okay.

<Begin Segment 15>

BY: All right. So you are now, you're forced to leave Seattle and go to Puyallup. Do you remember the trip to Puyallup and what do you remember about that day as far as getting to Puyallup and all that?

MK: You know, I don't remember anything about it. I just remember the bus coming.

BY: So it was a bus?

MK: (Yes).

BY: And where was it, where did you have to catch the bus, do you remember that?

MK: No. I just followed wherever the family went.

BY: Do you remember carrying a suitcase? No, okay. And so get to Puyallup. Do you remember what your first impression was when you got there?

MK: Well, we got... we were in Area D, which was the fairgrounds. So the Dipper is there, and I thought, wow. I remember I was so happy, seeing that.

BY: But you didn't get to ride in it?

MK: No. [Laughs]

BY: And so you were kind of excited about being there then?

MK: Yeah. Because I saw that. And in fact, I made new friends because...

BY: Oh, because Mich was not there. (She was in Area B).

MK: Yeah. So I became friends with Mich's schoolmate, Sally Tsutsumoto, Ben Tsutsumoto's sister.

BY: And describe where your family lived. So you said you lived in the area with the rides, but describe the place that your family lived, then.

MK: Well, it was a barrack, and we were all stuck in one room.

BY: And this is how many of you in one barrack, in one room?

MK: Yeah. Because one sister was gone when it happened because she had gone to business college before. Because my father said... another sister (Amy) pleaded with my father to let her go because they always said she was weak, you know, because she was four pounds (at birth). And so she believed that, and she played the role, too. But anyway, she went to business college. She was the only girl that could go.

BY: Which sister was this?

MK: Yeah, it was Peterson Business College.

BY: No, which sister?

MK: Dorothy.

BY: Dorothy, okay.

MK: And so she got to go. And so when the war, and just before the war broke out, she had graduated, and Mr. Peterson told her, "You're not going to get a job in Seattle, downtown Seattle." But he told her, "They hire minorities, Blacks and Asians in Washington, D.C."

BY: Wow, that's a long way from home.

MK: Yeah. So she came home with that news. And so my father, I don't know how, found out a family, Tamesa family, that had a daughter in Washington. It wasn't a family friend. I don't know how he found them. And the father, he asked the father if my sister went, if (his daughter) could oversee her stay, and he said he would do that. And so that happened just before the war (happened). So she was in Washington (and) we were two less, because my brother was in the service.

BY: Now, was your aunt and her child with you as well, or were they in a separate room?

MK: Oh, (...) they had a separate room, but we were in the same area because we were...

BY: Right, right.

<Begin Segment 16>

BY: And you said earlier that, you said that it saved your sisters, the war saved your sisters. What did you mean by that?

MK: Well, if they were here, they would have been "fixed marriage" or forced to marry, (etcetera). But when the war broke out and we went to, ended up in Minidoka, my oldest sister had met this guy in California, just met him on a trip. Oh, because the minister lived next door to us, because the Presbyterian church was across the street from our home. And my parents asked her, she went with the next sister, Amy, to California on a trip. And my mother and father asked them to stop in and see the minister on the way down because they were going to San Francisco and Berkeley is nearby. So when they went, this minister had students that went to UC Berkeley come on the weekends and stay and relax, the Japanese students. And so this potential brother-in-law of mine happened to be there. And they just introduced them. And then she started corresponding with him, and so when we got to Minidoka, the lectures started of getting married. And so she got tired of it and I remember she said, she wrote to him. He was in Heart Mountain, and she wrote to him and proposed, I think.

BY: [Laughs] That's interesting.

MK: And he was one who didn't date either, so it was a perfect match I guess. But so she got married at Twin Falls, which is outside of...

BY: So he was able to come from Heart Mountain to Twin Falls?

MK: Yeah. He came on a pass, and I don't think any family attended the wedding.

BY: Oh, okay, just a civil ceremony.

MK: It was just Reverend Andrews.

BY: Oh, okay, right.

MK: He lived in Twin Falls.

BY: Right, right.

MK: I don't remember, or maybe they didn't invite me, I never did find out. But they got married, and so she left.

BY: Okay, so one sister's in Washington, D.C., the other one gets married, and then what happened with the third sister?

MK: Then the other two, the one older one, (Amy), took the younger one, Miyo, as soon as they get passes. And they went to -- I don't know why -- but they went to Salt Lake City. I don't know if the War Relocation group would tell them where to go, but that was (nearby). So she took her to Salt Lake, got a housekeeping job at two different homes, wealthy homes, and they went to business college during the day, and at night they helped the mother of the house, and they graduated from the college. And they went to Washington, D.C.

BY: Your other sister was there.

MK: Yeah.

BY: So that's what you mean when you say... so they were able to get out, in other words.

MK: Yeah, get away from my father.

BY: Who was giving them these lectures?

MK: Yeah, about getting married, you know. Because he always said, with five girls, they can't go to college, we can't afford it and all that.

BY: Interesting.

MK: I mean, I didn't know that, but I overheard... I used to overhear him.

BY: Giving them the lectures.

MK: He was very dominant. So they got away, and so Frank and I got left, because he still was in high school.

BY: Right, okay.

MK: And so he went out -- oh, my sister, the strong sister -- got him a job.

BY: The one in Washington, D.C.?

MK: No, the one that took the younger one (Miyo).

BY: To Salt Lake City? Okay.

MK: Yeah. She was the one who was the strong, smart sister of the family.

BY: Okay, and just for the record, her name was what?

MK: Amy.

BY: Amy, okay.

MK: And so my father always had arguments with her because she had a mind of her own. And she called for, got a place that would take Frank as a houseboy because he's still in high school. And so he went out and got in a house, you know, so he took care of twin boys, I remember.

BY: So you're all by yourself now?

MK: No. Yeah, with my parents.

BY: Right, okay.

<Begin Segment 17>

BY: So what do you remember about camp then?

MK: Well, you know, I didn't even think about missing him, my brother, because, you know, we were together all the time. Because I knew we were going out, too, because my father couldn't stand that...

BY: Camp.

MK: Yeah. Because he did some woodcarving, like greasewood carving, but he's not a scholar and there's no business to run. So he went out right away.

BY: Before you talk about leaving camp, so what do you remember doing in camp? Do you remember school, do you remember friends, activities? Talk about what it was like for you.

MK: Well, you know, the thing I remember most was I used to get a bloody nose.

BY: From the heat, do you think?

MK: Yeah, but it would just run. And I always had rosy cheeks and stuff, but anyway... so at school, it's hot and dry, my nose would bleed. And I'd be in the bathroom for hours because I couldn't get it to stop. That's the big thing I remember about school, and I used to hope I don't get another bloody nose and stuff. But I remember walking in the mud, and the mud going into my boots and stuff.

BY: And do you remember, who were your friends when you were there? Do you remember anyone?

MK: Gosh, I'm trying to think. I hung out with older girls, one who ended up as a beautician. She always wanted to braid my hair and stuff. But I don't remember... oh, I did play with Sally Tsutsumoto. But I remember walking, and before they could even get the toilets installed, they had the wooden framed things. And the young guys our age, you would push on the... because they were shaking. If you were in the (outhouse), and I remember just bad things about them.

BY: Do you remember anything positive about being in camp?

MK: Gosh, I'm trying to think. Because I was too young to go to dances or anything. I remember going and listening to...

BY: Do you remember the food at all?

MK: Oh, it was awful. I remember having to line up at both Puyallup and Minidoka for food.

BY: Do you remember anything in particular that you really didn't like?

MK: No. I guess I just took it for granted. Because at home, we didn't eat fresh foods either, being in a big family.

BY: And so you said your father was very unhappy in camp for good reason. How about your mother? It seemed like she must have suddenly had a lot of time on her hands after being so busy?

MK: Oh, yeah. And she liked to knit and such, so it was, I'm sure it was restful for her, and then with the children all leaving. But my father was so restless, we moved out, too.

<Begin Segment 18>

BY: So you were there from, what, maybe around September of '42? When did you leave, do you remember?

MK: A year later.

BY: September of '43?

MK: I would say, yeah.

BY: And where did you go?

MK: To Salt Lake City.

BY: And that was because your two sisters were...

MK: No, they were (in Washington, D.C.). My brother Frank was there.

BY: Was still there?

MK: But then before that, even, my father had gone to Spokane to check it out because he had a shirttail relative there, and he was, pressed clothing. He was a tailor. And my father thought of moving there, but he thought he would try Salt Lake because he had never gone there.

BY: Did he know anyone in Salt Lake? I mean, his son was there, but did he know any other Japanese families or anything in Salt Lake?

MK: No.

BY: Okay. All right, let me just see if I skipped anything that I wanted to do. Okay, so you left sometime in 1943, your mom and dad and you and went to Salt Lake. What happened to your father's older sister? Did she stay in Minidoka or did she go?

MK: She stayed.

BY: She stayed?

MK: She stayed throughout the duration (of the war).

BY: Okay. And so you moved to Salt Lake. Where did you live and what did your father do, father and mother do?

MK: Well, we lived in a hotel run by a Japanese man for a while, but my father bought property with rooms to rent again, but not a large place. We had the one floor, and then there were about two or three units up above.

BY: So how did he buy a house?

MK: I don't know. See, that's where I never was consulted, you know, because I'm so young.

BY: Yeah, yeah.

MK: I don't know how he did that.

BY: Yeah, that's interesting. Well, he was quite the businessman, wasn't he?

MK: Well, yeah. And so what he did was he bought a cleaners and called this relative to come and work.

BY: So this is in Salt Lake?

MK: Yeah, a dry cleaner.

BY: So he bought a house, which he rented out some rooms, and he also bought a dry cleaner?

MK: Yeah. So I don't know where he got the money to do all that. Because I was so young, he never discussed anything with me.

BY: Right. And so you go back, you move to Salt Lake City, and now you get to see your brother who you haven't seen for a while, right? Did he then move back in with the family or did he stay living in this house where he was living?

MK: He graduated (from high school) at that house because they were in a (wealthy neighborhood). And then he moved in with us, I think. (...)

BY: And at this point, you are twelve years old or something like that. So you must have started school. What school did you go to and what do you remember about that?

MK: Well, you know, I was in the sixth grade when I left camp. And the teacher had given us (a promotion) or whatever. And so I was in the second half of the sixth grade, and then she moved me up to the seventh (grade). Somehow I got raised up a grade there. But when I went to Salt Lake, they didn't have a (separate) seventh and eighth grade.

BY: They didn't have one?

MK: Or eighth and ninth grade or something, so they (raised) me up again.

BY: Wow. So you were young, you were a couple years younger than your classmates, then?

MK: Yeah. And then when I came back... because when I came back (to Seattle), I did my junior and senior years, and graduated (when) I was fifteen and I turned sixteen the following day.

BY: Wow.

MK: You know, because of the...

BY: Getting moved up twice.

MK: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 19>

BY: So let's go back to Salt Lake City. So you're living there. Were there a lot of other Japanese American families in Salt Lake City at that time?

MK: Yeah. There were a lot of Japanese. In fact, the church, the Buddhist church and the Christian church were across the street from each other in Japantown.

BY: And, of course, there were a lot of Latter Day Saints, or Mormons, also in Utah, right? Salt Lake City?

MK: Yeah.

BY: Did you have any contact with hakujin or white people in Salt Lake City that you can remember?

MK: Oh, no. I hung out with the Japanese at the school and after school with them. I remember I played on the basketball team that the Japanese had.

BY: Okay. And then now, and it's during this time that your brother, tell me about your brother. So he was in the army, and when you first moved to Salt Lake City, did you know where he was and what was happening?

MK: Yeah. In fact, after he had to report back to Fort Lewis, they moved him inland because (of what) was happening. And I think he went to Oklahoma first, and he was doing janitorial kind of work (in the army). And then they shipped him to Camp Shelby in Mississippi. And I remember (...) he used to write often because he couldn't write in Japanese, it took so long. So he would write to me and I'd explain to my parents of what's happening, the best way I could. And I remember him saying, "Oh gosh, now I understand I'll be training the Hawaiian boys, they're coming." And he said, "I understand they're rowdy."

BY: So this was the 100th Battalion.

MK: Yeah.

BY: Okay, all right.

MK: Yeah, so I remember (...) he wrote telling me that. So I knew he was involved (in the formation of the 442nd Battalion).

BY: Now, did he ever have leave where he could come to either Minidoka or Salt Lake City to visit you during that time?

MK: (Yes), he did come, and we have a picture of it. And I don't know when it was, but he did come while we were there. And my sisters who went to Washington are in that picture.

BY: Oh, so they came...

MK: So I don't know if... yeah, but he couldn't have come when... I don't know when he came, but he did come. [Narr. note: Or Amy and Miyo had not gone to live in Washington, D.C., yet because Dorothy is not in the picture.]

BY: To Salt Lake City?

MK: Uh-huh, to visit. And he also went to Minidoka to visit his friends (...). Yeah, I remember he went to camp.

BY: So when he visited in Salt Lake City, that must have been the last time you saw him, then, right?

MK: Yeah.

BY: Okay. So then tell about, do you know what happened to him and how your family found out all of that? I know it's really hard to talk about.

MK: Yeah. Well, I remember that, oh, my father had not only a dry cleaners, he also bought a little restaurant with a u-shaped seating. It seated about twelve people. He had no restaurant experience, but he bought it and he hired...

BY: Somebody to cook and somebody to run the restaurant?

MK: Yeah, he didn't cook or anything, he just owned it. And there was an office (with the restaurant)... that's when we found out he got killed (in France). I found out later, he participated in the release of the Texas battalion.

BY: Oh, the Lost Battalion? Okay.

MK: He took part of that, and then on the next mission he passed away, he got shot. And I met the soldier who was with him, and when he got shot, they were in the, whatever they dig up.

BY: Trench?

MK: Yeah, trench. And I met him on the big reunion they had in Hawaii, and they introduced me to him because they invited me to the company get-together. And he told me he died instantly, he was beside him. And they said a bullet ricocheted from a tree and hit him right in the neck. So he said he probably didn't know what hit him, he was just gone.

BY: That's so hard.

MK: Yeah.

BY: So your father was in the restaurant when he found out about this?

MK: Yeah, I guess. I came back from school and the waitress was Japanese, lady that we knew, and she told me he had passed (away) and that my father had taken it real hard.

BY: How about your mom? Do you know where she was at the time?

MK: Oh, she was with him.

BY: At the restaurant?

MK: Yeah. They were in the office. I don't know what they were... at least after school we were together.

BY: That must have been a really hard time for your family.

MK: Uh-huh.

BY: Did they have a service for him anything?

MK: Yeah, they did have in Salt Lake, and his friends from Minidoka came for the service. They had a regular service, a memorial service. And I have pictures of who came and stuff.

BY: So this is in, sometime in 1944? '43-'44?

MK: Yeah, '44. He was killed in November. November (7th).

BY: And your sisters who were not in Salt Lake City, did they come home at that point, then?

MK: [Nods].

BY: That's hard.

<Begin Segment 20>

BY: So how much longer did you stay in Salt Lake after that?

MK: Well, as soon as the war ended and they said you could return, my father and Frank drove to Seattle to check on the house and everything before my mother and I followed. So they took an advance trip and came back.

BY: What did they find when they came to Seattle as far as the house and the store?

MK: Well, she kept it up. Oh, and she had made it a lot easier. She just doled out the sheets to the tenants.

BY: She didn't make the beds herself, in other words, she just...

MK: Yeah, so she just passed out the sheets so it was much easier for my mother after we returned.

BY: So your father, they came back and they got the house back then, essentially?

MK: Yeah.

BY: And just picked up where they left off? What about the store?

MK: Well, it was all gone.

BY: Okay, so then what did your father do? I mean, I'm sure he started some new business. What did he do?

MK: You know, I don't know what he did for a little while, but Mich, our friend's father, was a tailor. And he used to own a shop selling men's clothing, or he worked for somebody. Anyway, I don't know how they got together. But my father financed him, became a partner.

BY: In his tailor shop, or men's clothing shop?

MK: Yeah. He financed it. And, of course, he doesn't know anything, so he didn't work there. He hired his shirttail relative who was the accountant at the furniture store. So he owned that. He didn't do anything other than that, I don't think.

BY: Your father was an amazing businessman, I can tell, yeah. And so your mother was then, went back to running the boarding house. Did she do anything else?

MK: Oh, no. And then when we got back, a lot of the... like my aunt and stuff that lived in our house and the rooms, I don't know if they kicked the others out or what, but my aunt and Larry Matsuda's family, I remember Larry being there, but until they could find something.

BY: Yeah, because many people didn't have a place to live when they came back.

MK: Yeah, so they housed a lot of evacuees. I remember that.

BY: Okay, so now you're back and you start in high school now?

MK: Yeah. So I went to Broadway for my junior year, and then Broadway closed to become a technical school. So I spent the next, my senior year at Franklin.

BY: And you're young, you're fifteen, sixteen years old, right?

MK: Well, yeah. And Mich, you know, and quite a few Japanese. But the counselor, girl's counselor, told me that I could get into the U. But she, because of my age, and she said I was missing a science, actually, she suggested that I stay another year. She said, "I really don't recommend you going now. You're too young." And so I stayed a year, but then I lost my friends and everything. But I did go to the U and tried it a year, but it just wasn't the same for me. I just lost all interest in being there because I...

BY: Didn't have friends. And you were now not with the same group of kids that you had been with.

MK: So then I decided I would go to business college, follow my sisters and do that to keep busy. So I did that, and then I ended up with a business, I mean, working for the government like the rest of my sisters. So I put thirty years in with...

BY: So did your sisters who were in Washington, D.C., did they eventually come back to Seattle, or did they stay in Washington, D.C.?

MK: You know, they stayed there, and then one took a job in Japan. After the war, they wanted secretaries, and so she went and the other two followed.

BY: To Japan?

MK: Yeah, to work for the federal government. Because the benefits are really good. I mean, you know, the pay is good, but they were in the secretarial field. But the benefits are good, you know, housing is at a minimum, and you could eat at the officer's club. Like she said, turkey dinner was ninety cents. But anyway, so they were able to help our Japanese relatives.

BY: Oh, after the war?

MK: Yeah, because they should shop at the PX.

BY: Okay, so your Japanese relatives were all in Okayama area at that time?

MK: Uh-huh.

BY: Okay.

MK: My mother's side. And so they were able to buy things for them, and they had a military address so the shipping is cheap.

BY: Free. Well, the same as regular.

MK: Yeah. So once they got there, they got all my kimonos, and Mich and I took Japanese dancing, and so did another sister. So we sent everything that we had, that we could, my mother could gather. So they really benefited by my sisters being there, all three of them.

BY: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 21>

BY: Okay, so you graduated from high school, you went to the University of Washington for one year or part of a year?

MK: One year.

BY: And then you went to business college. And then you got a job with... when you say the government, what...

MK: Oh, first I worked for the Department of the Army. And the Korean War was on, so I remember I worked on the troop lists. And from there, I ended up with Fisheries.

BY: NOAA, you said, right? Was it NOAA you worked for? NOAA?

MK: Yeah. I ended up there as a contracting officer. But then George...

BY: At what point did you meet George, and when was that?

MK: Well, you know, I met him when I was dating Shobo. Because he's a good family friend, you know, George was, his best friend was Shobo's brother.

BY: Okay. So you were dating Shobo and Shobo's brother was George's friend?

MK: Best friend. And George used to hang out with the Fujii family because he had sisters and his (brothers were) older. So he knew all the brothers, but he was close to Shobo's older brother Daibo. So Shobo was like a younger brother to him. And when I was dating Shobo, he didn't have a car, we used to walk to the Buddhist church for a dance. So one day, George was in Chicago and he came back to Seattle.

BY: Oh, after the war he ended up in Chicago? Okay.

MK: And then he had a car, an old car. So he brought Shobo to pick me up for a dance, so I met him then when I was fifteen, but then I didn't date him until I was twenty.

BY: Oh, okay, but that's how you met him? Because he was Shobo's brother's friend.

MK: Yeah, he came and took (us).

BY: So he was originally from Seattle then, George was?

MK: Yeah. And he's also from a family of seven, and he's the youngest.

BY: Okay. And so then he comes back to Seattle and works, what was he doing at that time, then?

MK: He was working at the post office, I think.

BY: Okay. So you meet him and then five years later you start to date him?

MK: Uh-huh.

BY: All right. And so at that point, what were you doing and what was he doing when you started dating?

MK: I was still working for, I think I started at the agency before NOAA became... I was working, and he worked at the post office. In fact, when we got married, we both worked for two government agencies.

BY: I see, okay. And so when you met George, what were your first impressions of him at fifteen, what did you think? Were you sort of impressed because he had a car?

MK: No, because I was always used to a car because our father had a car.

BY: Oh, that's true, right.

MK: I don't know. I guess we hit it off. But then I know we dated for a while, and then he was going to go back to Chicago. So we broke up for several months, and then he changed his mind.

BY: He came back?

MK: Yeah, but I was dating others in between. [Laughs] So we ended up getting married.

BY: And so you got married in Seattle?

MK: Yeah. And my father got to throw that wedding. I mean, he always said he had five daughters, so he has to save money for the wedding. None of them got married here except me.

BY: Oh, so the other four sisters were in Japan?

MK: Yeah, two were in Japan and met their husbands, you know, Americans, over there. And the one stayed single as she vowed she would never get married.

BY: Uh-huh, is that Amy?

MK: Oh, she had eye problems. When she was four, her eyes crossed, and so that's one thing my parents spent money on, the best doctor to go (to). And the doctor here, the Japanese doctor, said, "We can't do anything here, but maybe in Japan they could do it." So my mother took three of the daughters to Japan when she was five, Amy was five or six. And two he had go, so that he had less to take care of. And the Japanese doctors said, "She's too young," they can't do anything at that time. And so she always was conscious of her eye strain. So like in any picture, she would scratch it out and put the eyeball in the middle.

BY: Oh, that's sad.

MK: And she always said she's never going to get married because of that.

BY: Of that?

MK: And she ended up, she was really strong-minded. And she should have been the boy of the family, she was real strong. And my father relied on her a lot.

BY: Oh, okay. So she ended up in Japan, though?

MK: Yeah. So she never married, but she was very generous. She even sent George to college.

BY: Wow.

MK: I mean, he has a sister, he had a single sister, but she didn't do anything like that for (George). Because (Amy couldn't) go to college, and the fact that he wanted to go after having two children... (she thought she could help make it easier for us).

BY: Wow, that's very generous.

MK: Yeah, she's very supportive. Yeah, she said she'll pay for something, and I said no. I said I'm working, and he'll work part time, and we did have two. And she wrote back and said, "They're only young once. I want them to have fun, like go to Disneyland." And so she just automatically had half of her paycheck sent to me for five years while George went to college.

BY: Wow, that's amazing.

<Begin Segment 22>

BY: So tell me about Frank, your brother Frank. What happened with him? So he was in Salt Lake City with you, then did he go to college? When did he come back to Seattle?

MK: Well, he came back (with my parents and me). He did go to college, to the U, but I don't know if it took place... he got drafted, too.

BY: For the Korean War, then?

MK: Hmm?

BY: Oh, no, for World War II. So he got drafted?

MK: He got drafted, but I can't remember when he... after they went, he served, and he went to Italy. Oh, but what's funny is when he got drafted, my mother said she didn't want him to go.

BY: Of course not.

MK: And my sister (Amy), the smart one, told her that she checked, and he has to serve, but they won't ever send him to war.

BY: Because his brother had died?

MK: (Yes, and he's the last son living). So that helped my mother.

BY: So he did serve then?

MK: Yeah, and he served in Italy and came back. And then he went to (the University of Washington and) graduated in engineering.

BY: And then he stayed in Seattle, then?

MK: Yeah. He stayed with the family, with my parents, because they were alone.

BY: Okay. And then he was in Seattle for the rest of his life, is that right?

MK: What?

BY: He stayed in Seattle after that?

MK: Oh, yeah.

<Begin Segment 23>

BY: And meanwhile, you and George, so you had two kids? Can you tell me what their names are and when they were born?

MK: Yeah. Our firstborn was Kristine (Mari Kozu).

BY: And when was she born?

MK: She was born in 1953. And my other one, Carolyn Mika Kozu was, she went by Mika because when she was born, Frank always took care of my children before he got married. And he took care of (Kris) while George came to see me at the hospital. And Frank would say, "What's your sister's name?" and she couldn't say "Carolyn," the R or something. And he kind of got tired of her not being able to do it, so he said, "Her name is Mika," you know, the middle name. So she ended up with that name, so everybody calls her Mika.

BY: Because it's easier to say? For a little kid, easier to say Mika than Carolyn.

MK: So she ended up (being Mika). [Laughs]

BY: And where do they live now?

MK: Mika lives in California and Kris lives in Edmonds and she looks after us.

BY: And do you have grandchildren?

MK: We have (six) grandchildren.

BY: And so you were also very close to Frank's, did Frank have more than one child? How many kids did Frank...

MK: He has two daughters.

BY: Okay, so Joy is one of them.

MK: Yeah, Joy is the firstborn. (the other is Lynne).

BY: And then you're close, obviously close to that family as well.

MK: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 24>

BY: So you told me that at some point, you and George traveled all around. Can you tell me about that? Your work took you overseas or something?

MK: Well, he had a friend, a couple, had me learn how to golf. And he's from Hawaii, so my first trip to... no, it wasn't my first trip to Hawaii, but it was my first golf trip. And then we joined a (couples') group, so we played golf and we traveled to Florida and California with them, but we did most of our big traveling when we went to Korea to work for five years.

BY: So this is a government job again from both of you?

MK: Yeah. We were, I had... I think I had (twenty-five years) with the government, and the kids were grown and married, and we thought going overseas might be fun, because we traveled quite a bit in the United States with our golf friends. And George's office, the Corps of Engineers, had offices all over the world. And so I said it'd be fun to go to Japan.

BY: Were your sisters still there, then?

MK: Oh, no. They were in Germany (after working in Japan.) He said there's no openings in Japan ever. Because once they get there, they don't want to quit. But he said there's Korea, and I said, "Where is that?" And so I looked on the map and I thought, "Oh."

BY: Right next to Japan.

MK: I said, "That's not so bad." I was getting stressed with my job because I had five more years to work in the job. I was a contracting person and my coworkers and I who did the same job, were complaining (that) we should be a better grade, higher grade. And nothing happened. And so I said, "Oh, I don't mind leaving it," and (George) says, "Well, you don't have to worry about a job." The kids are on their own. And so I said, "Oh, okay." And we did start to have a grandchild, but I figure I'm not a grandmother type anyway. But anyway, so we went in 1983 (to Korea).

BY: And was it great?

MK: Yeah. We loved it because, for one thing, he works for the military, so we could ride on a space available basis, the military planes, wherever they fly, for twenty dollars. And you know, I said, "Wow, that's nice." After we got there, I found that out. And so Korea was popular for shopping then. So we had a lot of visitors from the U.S. because I could ship things with...

BY: Again, the military post office, right?

MK: Yeah, post office. But then we traveled to the Philippines, Okinawa, and Thailand, I think, for twenty dollars.

BY: And Japan, you must have gone to Japan?

MK: Oh, yeah, we went to Japan for every... we could travel twice a year for twenty dollars. And we had, George's close friend who became a widower, came back (to work in Japan). (...). And so he was there, too. We used to go at least twice a year to Japan for twenty dollars.

BY: So did you ever go back to Okayama and meet your relatives, your mother and father's family, did you ever do that? I was just wondering since they were...

MK: No, we never did. Because for one thing, my Japanese is poor. George's is worse. And you know, we did other things instead. And then we were so close to China, we went to -- and our daughters came, one came a couple times and wanted to go to Hong Kong and everywhere. But we traveled to Okinawa and the Philippines and Thailand... no, not Thailand. But after we came back, we traveled more. We went to Australia and New Zealand and Europe.

BY: Wow, that's great that you were about to do that.

MK: Yeah, we really got a lot of travel in. And then we were there when Korea got the Olympics, but we didn't attend. We were on our way back and I didn't want to go.

<Begin Segment 25>

BY: Okay, so when did you come back to Seattle?

MK: 1988, and I had thirty years, and so I retired. George didn't have, he needed two more years or something, so he worked. But I worked part-time. Joy got me a job. I told her, "I want social security and I don't want to stay home," because I still was in my early sixties. And then she was working for an architectural firm and going to a school. And she said, "They want somebody part time," because it was a startup company, five partners. So I said, "I'll do that," so I did that for five years and I get the minimum social security, too. But it was nice because I could name my hours and times off.

BY: That's great. Okay, so I... you've had a very, very full life, it sounds like. So we're coming to the end. Is there any other memory either of your childhood or of the camp experience or after the war that you would like to share that you haven't already?

MK: Gosh, nothing special.

BY: Okay, all right. So my last question is, so you have children and grandchildren, and you've lived a long, very full life, what words of wisdom or advice, do you have any advice or words of wisdom that you would like to pass on to either your children or grandchildren? Like things that you think are important in life or things that you think that, pieces of advice that you could give?

MK: Oh, gosh, I don't know. I mean, I've been so lucky and everything. I think I really treasure all that's happened.

BY: Okay. I don't want to put you on the spot, but I thought maybe there's something that you would think, "Oh, I really want to say this"?

MK: No. Yeah, I just hope they're all happy and live a nice life. I just love my family. They're so devoted to us oldies.

BY: And you're the last of the Okazaki siblings, right, who's left? How does that feel to you?

MK: Well, you know, I figure that happens, same thing with George, he became the last one, too, so we're kind of in the same boat. But I want to do all I can for my children and grandchildren than I can do. And it's only financial now that we could help them with anything.

BY: Are there any traditions that you want to keep alive as far as things that your family has always done or that are particularly meaningful to you?

MK: No, I just hope they stay together, my family, my family's siblings, children. We're in touch with a couple of them who come to visit, too.

BY: That's good. Well, you are such a -- how do I say it? -- warm, outgoing personality. I mean, when I think about the Nikkei who live here at Lakeshore, you strike me as someone always who, from the very beginning, would always say hello to me and talk to me and just a very friendly person. So I think that that is a wonderful legacy for you to leave to your children and grandchildren, just that warmth and friendliness and all that.

MK: Oh, I just love being with people and meeting new people. So I'm glad that my daughters picked Lakeshore for us because there are so many new friends. And you lose them, too, but we're not isolated. I can't imagine being alone in our old age. So I'm real lucky that they will do everything to make it comfortable for us.

BY: I was actually very worried about my dad after my mom went, but he is, he's doing great. He has lots of friends, he does lots of stuff.

MK: Oh, yeah, he's so active.

BY: But so are you.

MK: It's people like him that we met here that make it so enjoyable.

BY: Yeah, I think he would say the same.

MK: Especially being old, you just think about yourself and everything else, but it's so nice to have friends.

BY: Okay, well, thank you so much, Mary.