<Begin Segment 1>

TI: So today is April 28, 2022, and we're here with Mary Kinoshita Ikeda, who actually is my mom, also. I'm doing the interview, Tom Ikeda. Helping is Barb Yasui, and on camera is Dana Hoshide. And so, Mom, I'm just going to start by asking, so when and where were you born?

MI: I was born in Seattle, May 18, 1927.

TI: Okay, so that makes you ninety-five years old?

MI: Well, I'll be ninety-five next month.

TI: You'll be ninety-six next month.

MI: No, ninety-five next month. 1927-22, ninety-five.

TI: Okay. That's right, that's right, ninety-five. Why did I say ninety-six? I guess I get confused about that. So you'll both be ninety-five, so Dad would also be ninety-five. And we're doing this at the Lakeshore retirement community where you and Dad live right now. And when you were born, what was the full name given to you at birth?

MI: It was Mayko, M-A-Y-K-O, Kinoshita.

TI: And where does "Mary" come from?

MI: Well, when I got baptized at Maryknoll, then they gave me the name Mary.

TI: Oh, okay, that's interesting. I didn't know that. So let's talk about your siblings. Let's talk about going from the oldest to the youngest.

MI: Yeah. Well, Hiroko Imelda Kiga is my oldest sister.

TI: And she was born in 1921, is what we have in the records.

MI: Okay.

TI: And so interesting, so Imelda, was that her baptized name?

MI: Baptism name, uh-huh. Otherwise it was Hiroko.

TI: And then after Hiroko?

MI: And then it was Francis Tsukasa Kinoshita, was my brother that was killed in action.

TI: Okay, and he was born in 1923?

MI: Okay. And then Mary Jane Kajiko Hashisaki.

TI: And she was born 1924.

MI: We were all about eighteen months apart. And then Irene Ishiko Tanabe.

TI: And she was born in 1925, so maybe another eighteen months later.

MI: And then Mary...

TI: Mayko.

MI: Mayko Ikeda in 1927. And then Chikara, Charles Chikara Kinoshita was born eighteen months after.

TI: Yeah, in 1928. So there were six of you.

MI: Yeah, six of us.

TI: And so those were the ones I know, too. Were there any ones who, like, didn't survive childbirth or anything like that? I don't think there were, but I just wanted to ask.

MI: They all...

TI: They all lived.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

MI: The only one you didn't know was Bako.

BY: And were those names all your baptism names, the English names?

MI: Oh, well, like Bako is a nickname that was given to Bako at Tenth Avenue, I know.

TI: So let's talk about that. So Tsukasa Francis Kinoshita, born 1923, your older brother, his nickname, everyone calls him Bako.

MI: Well, I presume it was because, across the street, there was a family called the Turners, and he had a play horse. The kids were jumping on it, and like Bako got on there and I guess he acted like a buckaroo so he said, "Oh, there's a buckaroo." And then the Japanese can't say "R," so somehow or another he became Bako.

TI: Oh, interesting. So as a young boy...

MI: Just like, oh, we're not to name my daughter Barbara because it would become "Barabara." [Laughs]

BY: It's true, true story.

MI: That's why I think, it was from that "buckaroo," you know. He's a buckaroo.

TI: And then Bako.

MI: And it ended up as Bako and it stuck.

TI: And how about you? Did you have any?

MI: I didn't have a nickname.

TI: And how about any of your other siblings? So Kaji...

MI: Kaji. Well, we always Mary Jane Kaji, that was Kajiko. And then Ish was, Irene was always Ishiko, Ish.

TI: Right, the Japanese name. And what did they call you?

MI: May.

TI: And then how about your younger brother?

MI: Chuck was always Chuck.

TI: And that came from Chikara, probably?

MI: No, just Chuck.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: So let's go to your father. What was your father's name?

MI: Fred Suyekichi Kinoshita.

TI: And for this interview, I'm not going to go much into your father's history or your mother's history. Because we did an interview a few years ago with your older sister, Mary Jane Kajiko, and she kind of talked about the details of...

MI: Baishakunin marriage?

TI: Yeah, the baishakunin marriage, where they came from, Kagoshima, and the Ibusuki, you talked about that. But there was one piece of information I just came across that a researcher did. They said that your mom... so let's first talk about your mom. So what was your mother's name?

MI: My mom was Akino Toyota.

TI: And what was interesting was this family history researcher was looking at your mom's side. And she said that it looked like some of her roots actually went to, actually, the same area that Dad's family was, on kind of the Takamatsu Shikoku island. Did you know any of that? I guess he had family that were kind of merchants and traders and that some of their roots were back there.

MI: The only thing I know about that Toyota family, they had a samurai. Maybe that has to do with it. Beyond that, I really don't know.

TI: Okay, so that's interesting. Because we're doing some research, and I never heard that, so I was just curious about that. And then you just mentioned the baishakunin, so talk a little bit about that, how your mother and father met.

MI: Well, I don't know too much about the baishakunin, but whenever my mom, dad and mom had a fight, my dad will cuss out the baishakunin. [Laughs] And then after that, I said, "I'll never be a matchmaker."

TI: Oh, that's good. And this was a baishakunin in Japan that matched up...

MI: Yeah, in Japan. Because when he had enough money to get married, he went back to Japan and went after Mom, but he had a baishakunin there.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: And so your dad, let's talk about what he did in Seattle. So he came to Seattle...

MI: Well, as far as I know, he always worked at the Rainier Club.

TI: Uh-huh, and tell me as much as you can about what he did at the Rainier Club.

MI: That, I don't know. Well, he was the head bellboy, and then he hired other people to work at the Rainier Club.

TI: And so during this time at the Rainier Club, the bell services, the guys who would do the luggage and stuff like that, that would all be Japanese?

MI: I really don't know what he did.

TI: Yeah, I think that's what I've heard.

MI: It was an impressive building.

TI: Because the Rainier Club back then, and even to today, is...

MI: Still an impressive building.

TI: It's one of the top private clubs in Seattle.

MI: Because after, when the war was declared, somehow or another, everybody got fired.

TI: Yeah, so we'll talk a little bit more about that.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: Okay, so we talked about your mother and father a little bit, and again, more details are in Kajiko Hashisaki's... so I want to actually spend more time about you growing up. And so talk about where you live, your first memories of where you lived.

MI: Well, I was really born on Washington Street, and then Sawa Beppu was the midwife. And then somehow or another, we moved to 421 Tenth Avenue, and then I had Kazuko Hirai, the Tadas and the Sekiyos as neighbors.

TI: Okay, so these were people... so let's first talk about the 421 Tenth Avenue. So this is like Tenth and Jefferson?

MI: Between Jefferson and Fir.

TI: And so this is, for people hearing this now, it's kind of like where the Seattle University...

MI: Well, right now, the house was, there was a big apartment house.

TI: Right, I think probably housing for...

MI: For Seattle U.

TI: For students at the university, Seattle University.

MI: And then we had the house right on Tenth Avenue, and behind us was the Sekiyas, and then next door was the Tadas, and next door was the Hirais.

TI: So lots of Japanese families.

MI: Oh, yeah. You know, like I played with Kazuko. And I was young.

TI: So describe the house. What did the house or home look like at 421?

MI: Well, there was a living room and dining room and the kitchen, and upstairs were the bedrooms.

TI: And how many bedrooms?

MI: Well, I know Ish and I and Hiroko and Kaji were in the same room. Maybe the boys were in the middle room and Dad and Mom were in the other room.

TI: Okay, so maybe three bedrooms.

MI: Must have been three bedrooms, yeah, with one bathroom.

TI: And growing up, did you have a sense that your dad was doing okay, to have that house?

MI: I remember, I mean, we were comfortable. We ate good and everything else for six of us.

TI: So tell me more about this neighborhood. Earlier...

MI: Well, I remember playing jintori, Kick the Can, things like that.

TI: So jintori is, you taught me, like we called Pole?

MI: Everybody used to get together and we used to play Kick the Can.

TI: Just these games?

MI: On the street. And I kind of remember, I think later on we finally got a car. And then with the car, we used to go beaches to have picnics and whatnot.

TI: Thinking about the neighborhood, you talked about the families that were really close by. What else was nearby your house?

MI: Well, Pacific school was one or two blocks down, and Bako went to Pacific school, I don't know why. But my mom and dad had him going to Pacific school. I think Hiroko must have gone to Maryknoll, I really don't know.

TI: So explain what Pacific school is. What is Pacific school?

MI: Oh, I don't know, some people said the dumb people went there.

TI: But this was the public...

MI: Public school.

TI: Public school.

MI: But Bako did well, he started UW when... I think he was up to sophomore or junior year at the University of Washington when the war broke out.

TI: Well, it's interesting. So do you think your family's perception of the public school, Pacific, was maybe the education wasn't that strong there?

MI: No, I don't know why, but my dad and mom didn't want Bako to go to the Catholic school. They wanted him to go to public school.

TI: But I was thinking why your parents wanted your older sisters, Hiroko, Kaji, and Irene, Ish, and you and Chuck to go to Maryknoll versus Pacific.

MI: That part there, I don't know the reasoning at all. But all my life I went to Maryknoll. I went from kindergarten to eighth grade.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: So let's start talking about, a little bit about Maryknoll. So where was Maryknoll located?

MI: It was between Sixteenth and Seventeenth on Jefferson.

TI: Okay, so you were on, roughly, Tenth and Jefferson, so about six blocks.

MI: I think we must have walked up to school then.

TI: Except for I know that neighborhood, so you were on the hill. You'd go down the hill and then back up the hill to get up there.

MI: And then we'd go past Pacific school and then the car barn, they used to have a car barn there.

TI: A car barn?

MI: A car barn. I mean, we used to have trolleys, and the trolleys were there between Twelfth and Fourteenth Avenue, I think it was.

TI: Okay. And these were the trolleys that would run, like, on Yesler?

MI: It went up Jefferson?

TI: Up Jefferson?

MI: Yeah.

TI: Oh, so if you wanted to, you could actually take a trolley.

MI: Yeah, but it was just four blocks or six blocks. So we used to walk up, I think.

TI: Now, so the trolley line on Jefferson, where did it go?

MI: It went to downtown. At that time, we didn't have buses, we had trolleys.

TI: Okay. And then going the other way, going west, how far did it go? Did it go to the lake?

MI: That I don't know. Because we didn't go down that far, we just went to Maryknoll and back.

TI: So you mentioned, like, four Japanese families that just lived nearby. When you think of the larger neighborhood, were there lots of Japanese that lived around there?

MI: Well, two blocks down were the Shinbos, Lois Shinbo. And then in back of the other side on Fir, you had the Teguchis and Mary Takeuchi and all those people.

TI: Well, so this makes sense because I know at Seattle University, on their campus, they have a, essentially a garden with a memorial for the Japanese American families who lived there before the war, because their claim was that quite a few Japanese families lived right there.

MI: Well, I know Yogi Yoshino and Eiko Yoshino used to live across the way. And then Pacific school was there, and it was a nice neighborhood. I mean, we used to have fun playing Kick the Can and whatnot.

TI: I mean, it's not that far away, but did you recall going to places like the Collins Playfield?

MI: We didn't go there. We didn't have to go that far. Right across the street from 421, there was a big lot with a hill. So like when it snowed, used to have sled rides or anything.

TI: So you actually had your own kind of playfield?

MI: Yeah. I mean, then the streets were quiet, that we were able to play Kick the Can and whatnot.

TI: And so when you played Kick the Can, how large would this get? Would it get pretty large in terms of quite a few kids coming together?

MI: That part I can't remember. But I know we played Kick the Can. That's how I learned how to play Kick the Can.

TI: Yeah, so these are games that you taught us when we were kids.

MI: Jintori and whatnot.

TI: Because we would play Kick the Can, like I grew up on Beacon Hill, and we literally would have twenty to thirty people playing.

MI: Not that many.

TI: But you didn't...

MI: And then we used to play with the Caucasians that were there, Clyde and Turner and whatnot, I remember him.

TI: Well, so talk about that. So in terms of the neighborhood, the diversity of it...

MI: Well, we played checkers or something, when we weren't playing Kick the Can or anything.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: Now, were you ever able to go into the homes of the some of the white or the Caucasian neighbors?

MI: Well, we used to go around the neighborhood. I remember the Turners one time, they made beer or something, we watched them make beer. [Laughs] The old float, I mean, they would just...

TI: Well, so I'm curious, when you said that, growing up as a kid, I remember at your parents' house, doing things like mochi pounding, they did the tsukemono, things like that. Did you do those things?

MI: I can't remember doing mochi at... but most likely we did. See, my mom was a good cook. But they always had a still. [Laughs]

TI: So tell me about that. You talked about the beer brewing.

MI: All the bachelors used to come because Mom made good sake.

TI: Oh, so you remember at the 421...

MI: Yeah, I mean... because everywhere we went, we always had a still. I think most families did have a still.

TI: Well, I'm not sure if most families did. I've actually asked about this. So tell me about --

MI: Even in camp they had a still.

TI: Okay, so tell me about, what did the still look like? I mean, how...

MI: I don't know, I left that to them. But a lot of bachelors came to help Mom to make the sake.

TI: So it was like a separate little room?

MI: No, no, I mean, it's like in camp, we were, they had a big, we had to go up the steps to get into... so they had room right there.

TI: Underneath the stairs?

MI: Underneath the barrack, the rooms.

TI: So they had a sake still.

MI: It was a big room that they could make a, have a still anyway.

TI: And when you say, so they were doing, like, sake, rice?

MI: Oh, yeah, sake.

TI: And that's what she would do...

MI: And shochu.

TI: In Seattle, she would make that?

MI: Yeah.

TI: I heard about this. I didn't know...

MI: Well, you know, Mom, a lot of the bachelors liked to come to our place because Mom would have the sake and she was a good cook.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: And so describe that. So when the bachelors came over, would they just go into, like, the dining room and drink or they're outside?

MI: Well, I mean, they'll help Mom.

TI: And then your mom would also make food for them also?

MI: Oh, yeah, she would always feed them.

TI: And you always say bachelors. So was there other families? Like just the husbands of other families?

MI: Well, New Year's was when you saw the different families. I mean, family people come for New Year's. but my mom would always have sake and food.

TI: So tell me about the bachelors. Where did they live?

MI: They lived in the hotels that are on...

TI: So more the International District, Chinatown area. And then they would kind of walk over to your place?

MI: I don't know they got there, but they got there.

TI: [Laughs] I didn't know this, it's a good story. Any memories from bachelors coming over? Like would they sometimes drink too much and sing loudly or anything like that?

MI: No. You know, most of the Isseis were alcoholics as far as I'm concerned. [Laughs] Because like Mr. Ikeda and my dad, they'll kill a fifth at every Thanksgiving or Easter or Christmas dinners. I mean, they don't eat, they kill the bottle.

TI: Yeah, I have memories of that.

MI: Yeah, you remember that.

TI: My grandfather --

MI: They didn't get drunk, but...

TI: Well, they got pretty drunk, too. [Laughs] Because they would, I remember your dad would sometimes just get up and start singing.

MI: Well, that would, utai, he had utai.

TI: Utai meaning...

MI: That's the singing. Like Mom went in for shigin, and my dad went in for utai. Do you remember utai?

TI: It's that form of singing, right?

MI: Yeah, form of singing.

TI: And he would, I remember at family parties -- we'll go into this more -- but I had lots of cousins, and so we'd have parties of thirty, forty people, and sometimes he would just, in the middle of it, just go up and start singing and we'd all have to stop and listen. But that's after, usually with my other grandfather, Dad's dad. They, like you said, had been drinking.

MI: They drank too much.

TI: So was that kind of similar before the war, people getting together and drinking, maybe singing like that?

MI: We were, my dad and mom were Kagoshima-ken, and you had a lot of Kagoshima-ken people in Seattle.

TI: So they were kind of like a hub for the Kagoshima-ken people?

MI: Well, I mean, most of them had hotels or something, you know, and then we had a house. It was easy to come over and drink and eat.

TI: I'm glad... you haven't told me these stories, these are good. I didn't know about so much the...

MI: But, too, they had their families, but of the group, I think they always said Mom was the best cook.

TI: And besides the coming over and the bachelors drinking and eating food, like New Year's Day, did your mom do a big spread for Oshogatsu?

MI: Yeah, they all came. Like Junks remembers his mom, after a certain time, "Go after your dad," and he'll go walk and meet his dad and bring him home.

TI: Oh, so this is on New Year's Day?

MI: New Year's Day.

TI: Where the men would go visit different places.

MI: All the different families.

TI: And in addition to the food, they would also be drinking?

MI: Oh, yeah, they drank too much.

TI: And so at some point you're saying that...

MI: Mothers would say, "Go after your dad and bring him home."

TI: And they would kind of know which families he would go visit, so you would have to kind of...

MI: So they go the other way. [Laughs]

TI: That's a good story. How about the Christian holidays? Things like Christmas, Thanksgiving...

MI: Well, see, to me, Dad and Mom were Catholics until they got in camp. And it was after Bako died that they got baptized.

TI: Oh, so before that, they weren't --

MI: Before, they weren't Catholic, but they sent us to Catholic schools.

TI: Okay, so they weren't really practicing, they didn't celebrate Easter?

MI: No, I mean, they were more Bukkyo. Most of the Japanese were Bukkyos.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: And so do you remember going to the Buddhist temple before the war?

MI: No. I didn't go, but as people died, they were all Bukkyo, and would go to the...

TI: Because you said you were baptized...

MI: I was baptized when I was in kindergarten.

TI: Yeah, so you were Catholic.

MI: So I must have been about five or so, and I was baptized with Chuck, I remember. And then because of that, the Maryknoll sisters, for breakfast, we went into the convent and they served us breakfast.

TI: After you were baptized?

MI: After we were baptized, yeah.

TI: Well, because you were old enough to remember, a lot of times, people are baptized when they were babies. What was the baptism ceremony for you and Chuck?

MI: That I don't remember.

TI: Was it like a big tub, or did they just sprinkle water, or did you get immersed in water?

MI: I think he just dabbed us with water or something, I can't remember. And that's when I got the name Mary, and Chuck got the name Charles.

TI: Okay, that makes sense. And at that time, were your older siblings also baptized?

MI: Yeah, I think Imelda, Mary Jane and...

TI: Francis?

MI: Irene.

TI: Irene were all...

MI: All baptized, yeah.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: You mentioned earlier the Kagoshima-ken. Do you remember any, before the war, Kagoshima-ken gatherings like picnics or anything?

MI: Oh, yeah. Kagoshima-ken people, we always had picnics. They had... and then whenever somebody got married or something, it'd be a big gathering.

TI: And so how large was these Kagoshima-ken gatherings?

MI: Oh, even to this day, you still have Kagoshima-ken.

TI: And so like a Kagoshima-ken gathering, where would they hold that if the whole ken got together?

MI: They usually used to have a, go to a restaurant to have a party. That, I can't remember.

TI: How about the picnics before the war? Do you remember any of those?

MI: Well, they say that we used to go to Kubota Gardens.

TI: Oh.

MI: For picnics.

TI: Because was the Kubota family Kagoshima-ken?

MI: No. But all the... whenever a kenjinkai had a party, they used to use Kubota Gardens.

TI: And so when you mentioned Kagoshima-ken, who were some of the families in Kagoshima?

MI: Well, there was the Manakitas, Kodamas, Hamadas, I mean, there was a whole mess of Kagoshimas. Kagoshima was a poor village that a lot of 'em immigrated.

TI: And what's the significance of being from the same ken? So if you knew a family, you mentioned like the Hamadas who were Kagoshima-ken, in the day-to-day life, what did that make you think or feel when you knew that someone was from the same Kagoshima ken as you?

MI: Well, like Kagoshima, they had a different dialect. And then like the Koriyamas and whatnot, they were one of the better... when they talked to my mom, you don't know what they're talking about.

TI: Oh, because their ken was just, the dialect was so different?

MI: The dialect was so distinct, yeah.

TI: And when you heard a Kagoshima-ken dialect, what did that make you think?

MI: Well, I mean, I grew up with it. Like they always greet each other as omansan.

TI: Instead of, what would the more proper...

MI: I don't know.

TI: So it's more colloquial almost.

MI: And then, like, when you say, "Arigato," you'd say, "Arigato gowashita," and that's Kagoshima dialect.

TI: Because growing up, you always mentioned Kagoshima as being more country?

MI: Yeah, it was the country, yeah. Ibusuki was really country.

TI: So when I think of that, I think of the United States, when we say someone's from the country, we think it's more kind of rural and maybe not as educated, things like that.

MI: Well, as far as I know, Dad was a teacher, but he was a second son. And then Japanese, everything goes to the first son. And so I think that's one of the reasons why. And as long as they were struggling in Japan at that time, he immigrated in 1907.

TI: Okay, so he was fairly well-educated?

MI: Well, he was a teacher, Japanese teacher.

TI: Now your dad, I call him Jiichan, always came across as somewhat regal. I mean, he's very, always good posture, always dressed well.

MI: Well, that's because he had to work at Rainier Club.

TI: Right.

MI: And then he kind of practiced his English, so he knew some English.

TI: That's good. So we talked about the... going back to the Kagoshima-ken, so I wanted to ask a little bit more. So when you see someone from the same ken, does it make you feel like you could trust that person maybe more, or you feel like if you were to do business with them...

MI: Well, I mean, I don't know what ken you were, other people were, but a ken, they have close relationships. And then like the Ikeda side, they were from Takamatsu, and that was a rich colony. So you didn't have too many people from Takamatsu.

TI: So that's my dad...

MI: Ikeda side.

TI: Ikeda side.

MI: So when Junks was in Seattle, they said there were about four families that were from Takamatsu. Then Louise Kashino, Tsubois were from Takamatsu, and they were about the only strong Takamatsu people.

TI: That's what I remember Dad saying. So they could do the ken party with just the two of them.

MI: Two of them. [Laughs] They take turns being president, so they could figure out what party they were going to have. So Junks knew the Tsubois real well, because they were from the same ken. Whereas Kagoshima, man, there was a whole slug of them.

TI: No, I remember growing up, always the Kagoshima-ken kind of...

MI: You remember the picnics they used to have at Lincoln Park.

TI: And then the annual dinner, right, they would do a dinner and things like that.

MI: So there were enough of us to have a party.

TI: Yeah, there seems to be... even though you called it country, there seems to be a lot of pride being from Kagoshima, at least, that's what I grew up with.

MI: Well, Kagoshima was a poor city, and then Ibusuki was a country, real...

TI: But, we're going a little bit out of sequence, but after the war, you traveled to Japan and visited Kagoshima. And I know that Kagoshima, because it's very south, it was kind of like the..

MI: It was the bottom of the hill.

TI: Bottom of the hill, bottom of the...

MI: Island.

TI: Island. But it was also like a sending off point for, like, the kamikaze pilots, it's close to Korea, so it's also like a...

MI: It was close to that -- I forgot the name of the place -- but they used to send off the pilots.

TI: Right, the pilots there, there was almost like a warrior class there because of its proximity to Korea.

MI: Kamikazes, and they knew they weren't going to come back. They just had enough gasoline in the airplane to bomb a battleship and sink the battleship and then die there.

TI: But I just remember you talking about the area and how there was almost like this, almost like a warrior mentality in terms of the...

MI: Gosh, I can't remember names of families. But that family, airfield that all the airmen left. It was real interesting.

TI: Yeah, I remember you talking about this, it was fascinating.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: Okay, so coming back to Seattle, you mentioned going to Maryknoll since kindergarten. Now, how was Maryknoll different than, you talked about Pacific.

MI: Well, see, that part I don't know, because I just went to Maryknoll.

TI: Well, I mean, just basic things in terms of Maryknoll, in addition to your regular schooling, you've mentioned things like Japanese language. So talk about that. So at Maryknoll, which is a daily school, Monday through Friday, you would have your normal schooling. But you also mentioned they had Japanese classes?

MI: Yeah. I would say there were about twenty-something kids in each class, and then we had an hour of Japanese. I think that's the reason why a lot of these families sent them to Maryknoll, then they didn't have to worry about taking care of them during the public schools, and then sending them to Tip School. And as long as Maryknoll would pick up the kids for school and then give them the English education as well as Japanese, one hour Japanese, and then bring them back home to them. They had two buses to take care of that.

TI: So it was a really convenient situation for...

MI: For the Isseis. They didn't have to worry about sending the kids to Tip School or anything.

TI: So you mentioned twenty-something kids per class, how many of those were Japanese?

MI: They were all just about Japanese. Maryknoll was a missionary school. And later on we had Filipinos. In fact, I had one girl in my class, Sally Padilla, and then other than that, we were all Japanese.

TI: Yeah, I interviewed Bob Santos, he went to Maryknoll, too. He was a little younger than you.

MI: Was he? Bob Sato?

TI: Bob Santos.

MI: Yeah, see, I didn't know... the younger ones, I wouldn't know. I remember the Laigos and Anita Vilihar and people like that. Because we were all, in the bus, that you get to know each other more when you go to school.

TI: So they, so the Catholic church made it really convenient in terms of the schooling, the Japanese.

MI: And then they picked him up for Sunday school again, I mean, Sunday mass and whatnot.

TI: So in addition to Japanese school and regular, kind of, English topics, how about the religion side?

MI: We always had catechism.

TI: And that was almost like daily also?

MI: Yeah. Because the nuns were the teachers. And when I think about it, they were real good teachers. Because when I went to Broadway for freshman class, I could keep up with them, the public schools. In fact, I knew more than they did in some cases.

TI: So your training, your...

MI: Yeah, I mean, Maryknoll was a good school.

TI: So how about expense? This is a private school, was it expensive?

MI: That part I don't know. I know they paid tuition. I mean, every Catholic school you paid tuition.

TI: So when you think back, did the Japanese families that sent their kids to Maryknoll, did they tend to have more money? Like did they have their own homes and places like that?

MI: Well, I mean, it couldn't have been that high that they could send the kids to Maryknoll. Because you had a big enough congregation... when you have two buses to take care of the transportation and whatnot, the school has to have quite a bit of attendance to keep it going.

TI: So you're saying because they had such a large number of students, that there was pretty much a variety.

MI: Yeah. And that's one of the reasons why Maryknoll had to close. Most of the congregation, they didn't come back to Seattle.

TI: Right, after the war. We'll get to that. Did Maryknoll do things like fundraisers? Do you remember fundraisers?

MI: Oh, yeah, we used to have bazaars and whatnot, and that's where my mom was always the sushi maker.

TI: Oh, so tell me about these bazaars. So what would a bazaar look like?

MI: Well, I guess that part, I don't...

TI: Was it at school, like in the gym or someplace like that?

MI: Well, see, Maryknoll... the church was upstairs, and right below that was a hall. And that's where when you have bazaars, or plays, or graduation ceremonies, you had this big hall, and that's where we had the bazaar. And then the other side were just classes, schoolrooms. We had kindergarten, second grade, third and fourth was together, fifth and sixth were together, seventh was a separate class, and eighth was a separate class. That's all the school I know of.

TI: And it sounds like, in our talking about Maryknoll, in the same way you talk about, almost like the Kagoshima-ken, the Maryknoll group was almost its own community. It was pretty tight.

MI: It was a cliquish bunch.

TI: So describe it. So who were some of the families that were in the Maryknoll?

MI: Well, if you see...

TI: Yeah, I'll share this. So my mom has this photo album of the Maryknolls, and there's just tons of pictures that we're going to be scanning. And so it's like a whole community.

MI: Well, this is our graduation picture. We were the graduates, and in back is the alumni. So you could see how many...

TI: So when you say graduating class...

MI: That was the class of 1941. And then a big graduation ceremony in the hall. It was the first time we ever had to have the same long dress, the girls.

TI: Oh, so this is your eighth grade graduation.

MI: Eighth grade graduation. And then so the alumni was there to greet us into the alumni.

TI: Okay. And so there was, I see about...

MI: I don't know if I could recognize all the people, but a lot of them passed away that I really can't...

TI: Yeah, it's kind of hard to see.

MI: I can't see.

TI: That's okay, we won't do that.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: But just from memory, what were some of the families that you can remember? Because I remember growing up, oftentimes when I would meet someone or mention, you'd say, "Oh, that's a Maryknoll person," or Maryknoll family. What were some of the families that you could remember?

MI: Oh, they were ordinary people.

TI: No, not just ordinary, I mean, the names. Some of the clan, almost like. The Matsudairas?

MI: The Matsudairas, they had fourteen kids. I just know John, Mike, Tebo, Pauline and Jimmy. The rest I don't know.

TI: Right, but they had fourteen kids, so they were a family...

MI: We all had big families.

TI: So the Kinoshitas were...

MI: We had six.

[Interruption]

MI: But like Bako went to Pacific School, but he joined the Maryknoll Boy Scouts.

TI: Oh. And so is that where he met, like the Aratani, were they --

MI: Oh, Aratanis were staunch Catholics.

TI: So they were also part of the Maryknoll?

MI: Sakamotos.

TI: Because I remember Augie Aratani.

MI: And then James Sakamoto, later on, he joined Maryknoll and he was the Courier publisher.

TI: Oh, so James Sakamoto was much older than...

MI: Yeah, but he came from back east and then he was already blind from boxing. And then he started the Courier, a magazine, the newspaper.

TI: So that's interesting. So Maryknoll is much larger than just the school, then, it was kind of like a church?

MI: Well, church and school.

TI: So James Sakamoto joined the church.

MI: Church, uh-huh.

TI: So he would start attending mass?

MI: At Maryknoll.

TI: I see.

MI: And then Misao, his wife, used to bring him to church. And later on, Marie and Joy were born.

TI: Well, so your oldest sister, Hiroko...

MI: She worked for...

TI: James Sakamoto.

MI: James Sakamoto that when the evacuation came, they made, I don't know why, he made Jim Sakamoto the head of evacuation, and Hiroko was a secretary.

TI: Okay, we'll get back to that a little later, I'll try to keep this more in sequence. Were there other, kind of, people that were prominent? I remember you introduced me to a Mr. Kobayashi?

MI: Tom Kobayashi. Because he was a staunch Catholic.

TI: And he had a lot of records.

MI: Like Roy Sakamoto, he was, like, I was his wife's flower girl when she graduated from Immaculate.

TI: And so in the same way, you talk about Kagoshima, if someone were part of the Maryknoll group...

MI: Well, a lot of the Kagoshima-ken people when to Maryknoll. Like Kodamas, I think the Minagiras went, too, and Suzukis. I mean, I got to look at the book, I can't remember names.

TI: And this gets back to, well, actually, I want to talk about him now. So a key person at Maryknoll was Father Tibesar. And so he was the Catholic priest, but what made him kind of interesting was he was also, he could speak Japanese. So would he do some of his sermons in Japanese?

MI: Oh, yeah. Sunday mass was too long. [Laughs] We'd sit there and sit there, do it in English first and then Japanese, and oh god.

TI: Oh, so your parents... but would your parents come then?

MI: No, they weren't Catholics. I think they became baptized in camp, after the Bako time.

TI: So going back to when you first described Maryknoll, you said it was a missionary...

MI: Missionary school.

TI: And so missionary meaning it was a way to really try to introduce the faith.

MI: The faith. And then they had a good school, I think that's the reason why so many went there. And on top of that, to have one hour of Japanese was better yet.

TI: Now, when I go down to Los Angeles, and even the Bay Area, there were Maryknoll schools in different cities.

MI: Maryknoll is, used to be real big in L.A. And then the Maryknoll sisters convent is there.

TI: Now, did you ever talk to anyone that went through that school and could compare how your experience was?

MI: No. Because I didn't know any of the L.A. people until camp, after camp. And then a lot of the Seattle people went to the Maryknoll in L.A.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

BY: So I don't know anything about Maryknoll. So it was a missionary school, sounds like almost all of the students and people who went to the church were Japanese. Were there any... and you said later there were Filipinos, but were there any white people who went there or any other?

MI: No. Because right by Maryknoll was Immaculate. The Caucasians went to Immaculate. But after eighth grade, like the Takisaki family, they went to Immaculate for high school. And we lived downtown, and so we went to Broadway.

BY: Hirabayashi, I mean, Hannah's family went to Immaculate. So I'm just, geographically, it seems like was sort of this hub of Catholicism, is that right? I mean, because Seattle University was right there.

MI: But we didn't have much to do with Seattle U.

BY: I'm just wondering, though, geographically.

TI: Yeah, geographically you had Immaculate, you had O'Dea, you had Maryknoll, which is kind of the site of where Providence Hospital...

MI: Yeah, right there, right across the street.

TI: Which was also Catholic back then.

BY: So it seems like there was definitely some...

TI: Yeah, so there was a very strong, what we call the archdiocese.

MI: And then after the war, lot of people went to St. Mary's, which is on the other side of Jackson Street.

TI: Right, and St. James Cathedral was...

MI: Well, James Cathedral was more downtown.

TI: Downtown, but it's relatively not that far away, but it's maybe half a mile away or so.

BY: So it's interesting that there is sort of this Catholic enclave right next to Japantown and that whole area.

TI: Right. Well, and your point about how you had Maryknoll, but close by you had Immaculate. So it's almost like a form of segregation.

MI: Because I had to go to Immaculate for my four months of senior class.

TI: Right, when you came back after the war.

MI: We were the first family to come back to Seattle, and that was because Father Tibesar got a job for us with the Bishop of Seattle.

TI: Yeah, so we're going to go into that after the war.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: But at this point, let's talk about December 7, 1941, so the beginning of the war. Do you remember how you heard about...

MI: Well, we were living at 1903 Terry, which is an apartment house. And then one of the tenants came down and said, "Put the radio on, I think there's a war with Japan." And that's how we found out about...

TI: And who was with you?

MI: Well, all of us were somewhere in the apartment doing something.

TI: Now, so it's Sunday. Wouldn't you be at church?

MI: Well, it was in the afternoon.

TI: Oh, so this is after church? And do you remember, so you had, again, setting the scene, so the family's there. You had three older sisters, an older brother, your parents, and then Chuck, so there's eight of you. Was there any, do you recall any discussion about what was going on?

MI: Well, we were just listening to the radio.

TI: Because I was thinking about, especially, your older siblings. Kaji was, like, I think a senior.

MI: Senior at Broadway.

TI: Broadway, and she was actually a really top student. I know she got an award, she was voted top student by her classmates. You had Hiroko, who had already graduated, you had...

MI: She was working for Jimmie Sakamoto.

TI: Jimmie Sakamoto with the JACL. You had your older brother who was at the University of Washington. And in particular, I was thinking of the older siblings. Did they talk about what was going on and maybe their concerns or anything?

MI: Well, I think at that time it was, let's wait and see what's going to happen. I mean, you just couldn't make any decisions or anything. But so we were kind of curious how school was going to be.

TI: Yeah, so that's what I was going to ask. What happened?

MI: Yeah, Monday we all went to school. And then the first thing, for the assembly, we had to listen to Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

TI: So you heard that speech where he says, "December 7th is a date that will live in infamy"?

MI: I think I cried because it was so sad for me, my gosh.

TI: But so at Maryknoll they had, like, an assembly?

MI: Well, see, I was at Broadway then.

TI: Oh, so by then you were at Broadway.

MI: I was a freshman then.

TI: That's right. You graduated in 1941.

MI: '41, yeah. Late '41 was...

TI: Right, so you had just started Broadway.

MI: Yeah, September, October, November, December, the fourth month.

TI: Oh, so that's right, so you were gone. Because essentially, going back to Maryknoll, because it was all Japanese, when the Japanese left, they shut it down.

MI: Well, I know they graduated the class of '42, but it was a real early graduation. And they said that after they left, Maryknoll was just bare, because there weren't that many Filipino students.

TI: Well, they closed the school after.

MI: I think they got through with the school, and then after that they had to close it because there was no students.

TI: That's what Bob...

MI: Santos.

TI: ...Santos said, yeah.

MI: And then they had to go to another school for the following year.

TI: But at that time, was Chuck at Maryknoll?

MI: Chuck was at Maryknoll, yeah. I was at Broadway. Ish was at Broadway, and Kaji was at the senior...

TI: And so Broadway you remember that assembly, listened to the speech, sounds like it was very sad, emotional.

MI: And then you hear of other people, what happened to them.

TI: So how was it for you? You went from a school, Maryknoll, which was all Japanese students, Japanese American students, to Broadway, which was...

MI: It was an eye-opener to see so many other Japanese at the public schools.

TI: Oh, at Broadway?

MI: Yeah, Broadway was just a whole mess of Japanese. Because you figure freshmen, sophomore, junior, senior, four classes there.

TI: And so roughly if you had a class of, say, twenty-five students, how many of them would be Japanese? Like what percentage, roughly, do you think?

MI: Well, at Broadway, I'll have about four or five Japanese in each class.

TI: So probably about twenty, twenty-five percent.

MI: There were a lot of Caucasians. That's when you kind of realized, it's a different world from Maryknoll.

TI: And how did that feel for you, going from...

MI: What?

TI: How did that feel going from kind of a small...

MI: As long as we had a good education, and we knew more than some of the students, I was comfortable.

TI: Okay, so you felt that your education was good.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: So on December 7, 1941, earlier we talked about how your dad was working at the Rainier Club. What happened to him and the other workers at the Rainier Club?

MI: That I don't know. I just know that because of the war, they were all fired. And then we were able to keep going because we had the apartment house.

TI: Oh, so were you managing the apartment?

MI: Well, we had the lease to the apartment house. And then when February 6th came for evacuation, we were able to sell the lease so that we could leave the place.

TI: So February 19th was when the executive order and then later on...

MI: We would start working on, we were wondering what to... I know my folks were wondering what to do with the apartment. Some people just said if you could sell the lease, get out of it. Because you didn't know how long the war was going to be.

TI: Do you know who your parents were able to sell the lease to?

MI: She was a Caucasian that lived on the block. She wanted to buy the place, so we had a buyer right away.

TI: Okay. And do you know if you had to sell it at a discount or anything like that?

MI: That part I don't know. I think at that time, people just took anything they could get. Because I know we sold the car to the, one of the tenants. I know we sold it to him cheap because you had to get rid of it.

TI: Did your dad ever talk about having to leave the Rainier Club? Because he worked there for probably over twenty years.

MI: Well, you know, it's war. I mean, it's shikata ga nai. There was no two ways about it. Japan attacked the U.S., and the members didn't want the Japanese there.

TI: So did your dad talk about that, that he was, shikata ga nai, he said, "It can't be helped?" or did he ever talk...

MI: Well, he just lost his job. There was nothing he could do about it. But we were able to survive because we had the apartment.

TI: But there was no sense of frustration or anything like that?

MI: I mean, there wasn't anything he could do about it. Won't you be in the same boat? I mean, what could you do? You just got to wait to see what other orders you get, just wait for it.

TI: I think some things that would come to my mind, especially if I had worked there for twenty years and been a good worker there, and really someone that helped the organization, I would hope that they would know me well enough that they would maybe kind of treat me better?

MI: Well, at that time, people didn't do that. Like JACL, the churches, they all said to go quietly, remember? I mean, that was all there is to it. I mean, they said, "Just go quietly," and they'll take care of it after the war. But this is one thing I don't think JACL ever did.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: So going back to the JACL and James Sakamoto, I want to get a sense...

MI: Oh, James Sakamoto wasn't with the JACL then. He was strictly Japanese Courier, and he was in charge of the evacuation.

TI: Yeah, but that was kind of through the JACL though. He was still involved with the JACL.

MI: I know he was involved before, but I think most of his things were for the Courier.

TI: So I'm curious, how prominent was James Sakamoto in the community during this time? Because I read the Courier and...

MI: I think at that time, the churches and the JACL were stronger. And then he just went along with whatever orders came that he followed.

TI: Because when I read things -- because he had opinion pieces in the Seattle Times and things like that -- that he was, back then when I read things, the sense I get was that he was viewed as a community leader and the spokesperson for the Japanese American community, was that your sense? I mean, this is from reading things.

MI: I didn't read things like that then.

TI: But that's why I want to get your sense of just knowing who he was. Because I know he was also blind, you would see him going to mass.

MI: Well, he was opinionated.

TI: [Laughs] How do you know he was opinionated?

MI: I mean, all publishers are opinionated. And then I knew Hiroko worked for him.

TI: So let's talk about that. So how long did she work for him? This was like, she started before the war started?

MI: Yeah, well, right after she graduated, I think, she got a job with Jimmie Sakamoto. But, too, it could be that he's a Maryknoller and she's a Maryknoller, or maybe...

TI: Yeah, that makes sense.

MI: But she worked for him for the longest time.

TI: So when the war started, and you mentioned earlier how James Sakamoto was given responsibilities in terms of the removal of Japanese Americans, did she get really busy, busier?

MI: Well, she couldn't come with us when we evacuated. She had to stay back with Jimmie Sakamoto. And then it so happened that Zip Nomura and his bunch got into a real bad accident that he was in the hospital. And so they let her stay back because of Zip. And then, so my sister had to move in with Mr. Nomura.

TI: Oh, in Seattle?

MI: In Seattle when we had to go to camp. So we left much earlier than she came to camp. That part I can't remember whether she came back to Area B or whether she stuck in Area D to be with Jimmie Sakamoto, that part I don't know.

TI: Yeah, because when I looked at the government records, she was not included with your family.

MI: She had to stay back with Jimmie Sakamoto to clean up things.

TI: And then also help take care of Zip Nomura?

MI: Yeah, he was in the hospital.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: So going back to your experiences, because you had a house earlier, the family was leasing this apartment, I imagine they had quite a bit of, kind of like, furnishings. Like furniture, things like that. Where did all that go?

MI: Well, see, we arranged it with the person that we would store all the things in one place, in one room. And so we had to get up real early the day of the evacuation, you strip the beds in that place. And so we left after we got everything done. And then I think the person that bought our car had to make two trips to get us to Chinatown where the bus was going to pick us up.

TI: Do you remember where in Chinatown that you were picked up?

MI: Oh, well, the corners anyway. We just had to...

TI: I always, I mean, one pick up place was on Weller Street?

MI: Yeah, well, it could have been. It was on the other side of Chinatown. And then we just had to carry what we could carry and that was it. And then when we got to Puyallup, they told us to stuff the mattresses with straw because they didn't have mattresses. And then my mom had hay fever, oh, god. I don't know what happened. Anyway, whether they did anything for her, I really can't tell you.

TI: And so with Hiroko staying back in Seattle, there were seven of you.

MI: And we were all in that one room. And we all had to stuff our mattresses with straw.

TI: And about how large was that room, do you remember?

MI: It was all beds.

TI: Was it much larger than this room right here?

MI: There was one potbelly... well, how you get seven beds and a potbelly stove right in the...

TI: So it was just next to each other, it was just pretty much packed. And what area were you guys in?

MI: I was in Area B, which was a parking lot, and so we were in barracks. And then next door was Teruye and Link Beppu, and Grant and Ietsu were next door to them, and across the way was the senior Beppus. And then in front of us was the valley people, that's how I met Val Tanabe and Dorothy Tanabe and the Yotsuyes and whatnot.

TI: When you say "valley" people, you mean like the Auburn valley?

MI: No, Puyallup people.

TI: Puyallup valley, okay.

MI: And then they were able to bring their things in by truck. Because they lived in that area.

TI: So they had more stuff than...

MI: Yeah, they had more stuff, we just had our suitcases.

TI: So I'm curious, when you were preparing, because your sister Hiroko worked with James Sakamoto, did the family get more information about what to do to prepare, like what to bring to Puyallup or anything like that, or where you were going?

MI: We just had to wait for the orders. I just remember we all had to get our typhoid shots. Oh god, that was horrible.

TI: So describe that. Was that at Puyallup you had to get...

MI: No, we had, while we were, after the February something, they said that we all had to get typhoid shots. So it must have been March or April, after typhoid shots, after school. And we all went to Dr. Shigaya's apartment, there was a whole line of people getting typhoid shots. And boy, that was one shot that... never had a sore arm in all the war days. [Laughs]

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: I forgot to ask. So before you went to Puyallup, did you ever go to, like, Maryknoll for mass or anything like that? I was just curious if you ever, if you saw Father Tibesar before Minidoka?

MI: Well, I think during the war, after the war, we all went to church on Sundays and whatnot.

TI: And so do you remember any of the sermons that maybe Father Tibesar...

MI: Well, at that time, even he was saying, "Go quietly.

TI: Okay, that's what I wanted to know.

MI: Even JACL, everybody was saying, "Go quietly."

TI: So you heard Father Tibesar saying this?

MI: Yeah, all the churches were saying that.

TI: And was the church, did you notice the church doing anything to help the families prepare? Examples being like maybe the Buddhist church...

MI: Well, they had to more or less kind of close the school down. I went to Broadway, so we don't know what happened there. But I know that later on, Father Tibesar came into camp. He was one of the few priests that were in camp. And then people like Reverend Andrews, he brought his family over to Twin Falls and rolled in there. He used to come back and forth between Twin Falls and camp, and then whenever he went back to Seattle, he'll have to bring a load of things back for the people in camp.

TI: That was Reverend Andrews that did that?

MI: Yeah.

TI: So Father Tibesar, in a similar way, you said he moved from Seattle to Minidoka.

MI: Yeah, but he didn't have a car, so he stayed in camp. So we had mass at the camp.

TI: Where did Father Tibesar live at Minidoka?

MI: Well, he lived right in Block, where the church was. I mean, he had a room for church, and he stayed there.

TI: Okay, so he didn't stay in the admin area, he stayed actually...

MI: No, he stayed in camp.

TI: And which block, do you remember where the church was?

MI: It was either Block 22... I really don't, I can't remember that.

TI: And so did they just make one of the... the mess hall or the barracks into a church?

MI: That I don't know, but we had mass there.

TI: Okay. So every Sunday you would go to Block 22.

MI: Yeah. And we lived in 16, so we had that big lot to cross to get to church.

TI: When he did mass on Sunday, so I'm guessing a lot of the Maryknoll people would go there. Did a lot of the other people also go to mass that weren't from Seattle Maryknoll?

MI: All the Maryknollers went.

TI: Right. But in addition to these Maryknollers?

MI: That I don't know. Because you still had your Baptist church and Methodist church people, like Cal Machida's dad was the Methodist church people, he lived two barracks down from us in Block 16. So he was there.

TI: And where was his church, this Methodist? Did he have his own church, too?

MI: I don't know. I never asked Cal. I know they got together. They could have used some rec room or something, I really don't know.

TI: And what would Father Tibesar do on the other days when he wasn't doing mass? What else would he do?

MI: I don't know, that's his business. [Laughs]

TI: I was just curious if he had...

MI: Because like in camp, as soon as I turned sixteen, well, as soon as we got out to camp, I think we went potato picking. We had to help the harvests, they went to help to harvest. And then after I got back, I became a nurse's aide, so after school I went nurse's aide. And then the following year, I guess, I worked at the administration, I did office work after school. So we were kept busy after school. And then we got paid seven dollars for the whole month.

TI: But I was wondering, like, do you remember if the Catholic church, did they do, like, catechism for the younger kids?

MI: Well, every Saturday we had to teach the Sakamoto kids and whatnot, and another family's kids, we taught them catechism.

TI: Oh, so you would go up to Block 22?

MI: No, no, they came to our place.

TI: Oh, okay.

MI: Because they lived in the block.

TI: Oh, so you were like the teachers.

MI: Teachers, we were the teachers. But like you had Ish, Kaji and me to teach the kids catechism. [Laughs]

TI: Okay, that's interesting. And then you would get the materials from Tibesar or the sisters there?

MI: Well, we knew the prayers.

TI: Right. But they would come, wouldn't they have their little books and stuff?

MI: It was kind of a fun time. You get to know the kids much better. In fact, Roy Sakamoto's daughter, she's my godchild.

TI: And you also taught her catechism, too?

MI: Well, she was a baby, thank god. [Laughs]

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

TI: So we're at Minidoka. So you were at Puyallup, then you went to Minidoka. Before we talk more about Minidoka, any other stories about Puyallup, memories that you have?

MI: Well, you know, Area B was, the Seattle people that were there were really stuck with the valley people. And then that's how I met Jimmy Kinoshita and whatnot, we used to kid each other, made him an honorary brother. [Laughs] He didn't have any brothers or sisters, so he became honorary. And that's how we got to meet a lot of the valley people.

TI: And you say Puyallup valley people.

MI: And it's so... so when we got into Puyallup, into Minidoka, lot of the valley people still came into the Block 16, 17. So we were comfortable. Because we knew them from Area B.

TI: When you went to Puyallup, you talked about how the seven of you had to go into one room, it was pretty crowded. When you went to Minidoka, what were your living...

MI: Well, see, we were able to get two rooms because Mom was sick. And so we had C and D, which were the two middle rooms, and next door was Osakos, which was Puyallup people, and the other side was Kimuras, which was Seattle people. We all had to get along. Tak Beppu was in the corner. So we got to know each other.

TI: And you mentioned your mom, because I remember this now. When she went from, when she left Puyallup, she was pretty sick.

MI: Yeah. I mean, she was hay fever and everything else.

TI: But also she was kind of, it was more serious than just hay fever.

MI: Yeah, well, they finally operated on her, and then when I was a nurse's aide, they pickled her tumors. They had to cut a tumor in half it was so big.

TI: Yeah, so they removed a large tumor.

MI: It was in a mayonnaise jar, two cut pieces of tumor.

TI: And I think I read that she also had, like, a hysterectomy?

MI: I don't know if she had... well, she had six kids already, my god. Well, I know she had a blockage, that along with the tumor, maybe they sterilized her, I really don't know. Well, she was pretty old then.

TI: Yeah, I know. I think it was probably from... so I was wondering, her medical treatment, you said you were a nurse's aide, so were you there at the hospital when she was there, do you remember that?

MI: No, I went after, because that's when I... when I became a nurse's aide, one of the first things they did to us was we had to watch a birth, baby coming out, and then they took us for, somebody died. They wanted to do an autopsy. They cut that and got a wrench and cut the bones. I said, "I'm never going to have that done."

TI: Wow, so you had to watch all that as part of the training.

MI: Yeah, we had to watch that. And that's when I saw the pickled uterus of Mom.

TI: Oh, you mean the tumor?

MI: I mean tumor, yeah.

TI: Oh, so they kept it there and you saw it?

MI: Oh, yeah. It was in that room.

TI: And do you know which doctor treated your mom?

MI: Akamatsu.

TI: Oh, so it was a Japanese American?

MI: Japanese doctor, yeah.

TI: And he got paid just nineteen dollars a month. So I was curious if... okay.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

TI: So there's another story I wanted to ask you about. So you mentioned how when you left Seattle, you stored a lot of things at the...

MI: Apartment.

TI: But I read that you were able, while you were at Minidoka, to have some of that brought over.

MI: Well, like Hiroko was working at administration, and I think she told somebody there that it sure looks like the people that leased our place and was going to steal our furniture. And so he had a moving company move all that furniture and departed to Idaho.

TI: So they actually had a moving company move all that stuff that you stored and brought to Minidoka?

MI: I don't know who paid for it, maybe we did, too, I really don't know that. But see, we were living at that time after Hiroko and Bako and Kaji and Ish moved out, we had to move to a smaller place. And so we were in Barrack 12 which was up high. We had all that storage underneath the barrack.

TI: Oh, so in that space --

MI: So that's where we stuck all our things.

TI: Along with the still, the still was down there, too. [Laughs] I remember that story. So what kind of things were brought to Idaho?

MI: All our bedding. So instead of sleeping on cots, I slept on my own double bed and my own mattress. And then our vanity, we had a cheap vanity and then we used our vanity. And our dresser, we had a dresser anyway.

TI: And in Auntie Kaji's interview, she mentioned that perhaps the prize, the most prized thing that came back was the washing machine.

MI: Yeah, we had the washing in the laundry room, and then whenever people saw us using it, they wanted to dry their...

TI: Yeah, because you had a washer/dryer.

MI: No, it was the same thing.

TI: Oh, the same thing? Oh, I see, the spin cycle of a washing machine.

BY: In those days they had that roller thing?

MI: We had a good spinner, so we used to spin their...

TI: Yeah, so they had an electric washing machine.

MI: And so we just left it in the laundry room.

TI: And so this was the community washroom that everyone would do their washing.

MI: Yeah, it was the mess room.

TI: And they didn't have electric washing machines, so everything was done by hand.

MI: Every morning I used to see these people with babies who were doing the diapers on the washboard.

TI: And so you brought a washing machine and you said other people...

MI: Well, whenever... we said we'll dry it for them and get most of the water out, and then you can just hang it up, and boom, it's dry.

TI: Because I'm guessing that there weren't too many washing machines.

MI: No, ours was the only one there. [Laughs]

TI: Was there anything else like that? Or like the still, did the still come in that shipment from...

MI: I don't know. Somehow or other, they could get the equipment. I mean, somebody would have a... I don't know where they put the... they had a big pan, I mean, big kettle or something to put the mash in.

TI: So I'm curious. So when your mom would make the < class="ja"i>sake, besides your dad, who else would drink it?

MI: A lot of single bachelors. [Laughs]

TI: They would come by and...

MI: Oh, yeah. But other people had stills, too. I know they did.

TI: Now was your mom, because you talked about how good a cook she was, was she able to cook at all at Minidoka?

MI: No, she didn't cook at all. Most of the time she was sick.

TI: So earlier you mentioned moving to a smaller apartment because your three older sisters left camp. And so let's talk about your sisters first. Where did your sisters go?

MI: Well, like Hiroko went to Chicago and got a job there. And then Mary Jane went to college at St. Catherine's in St. Paul, Minnesota. And then Ish joined the nurse corps. She was somewhere in Illinois. It wasn't Peoria, but somewhere around there.

TI: And how did it feel to have your three older sisters leave camp? I mean, you lived with them all your life and now they're leaving. How did that feel for you?

MI: Well, I wanted to leave, too, but I was a minor. I thought I was going to go into the nurse corps, but Dad and Mom wouldn't sign the release for me to get out of the camp so I stuck around.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

TI: So let's talk about your older brother. So you said he left also, so how did he leave?

MI: Well, he volunteered for the service, so he went to Camp Shelby.

TI: But before he went to Camp Shelby, you told me the story about failing the physical.

MI: Yeah, well, when he volunteered, they all had to have a medical exam. And then he failed his kidney. And then my mom had niwatoko, that's a Japanese medicine. Lot of people drink that for kidney trouble, and then she kind of cleared it up, then he passed the second time.

TI: Because when your brother failed the physical the first time, how would you describe how you felt?

MI: Well, to me, if Bako... that would have been a real downfall for him. He was active in sports and all that.

TI: Well, and I think a lot of his friends also went into the service, too.

MI: They all passed. But anyway, Mom cured him and then he went in the service. He was in the ROTC at University of Washington, so he would, his military service was real easy for him.

TI: Well, he was, it looked like, fairly quickly promoted to be a staff sergeant, which most of... I mean, for the Japanese Americans coming out of camp, that's pretty high.

MI: Well, according to Ish, they wanted him to become an officer, but I don't know that part.

TI: Now do you know why or how he got assigned to the 100th Battalion?

MI: The original people were always in the 100th Battalion before. I mean, all the mail was to the 100th Battalion. And at a certain date, they made it the 442nd/100th Battalion.

TI: Right. And as part of that, they had two different companies. They had... I'm sorry, the 100th Battalion and then the 2nd Battalion, 3rd Battalion. So they had three battalions.

MI: That I don't know.

TI: And most of the Japanese Americans from the camps went into the 2nd and 3rd Battalion, and the 100th was mostly Hawaii guys. And so I was curious why or how he got into the 100th.

MI: Well, from the beginning he was in the 100th when they went to Shelby, because I know a lot of the mail was, we sent it to 100th Battalion, Camp Shelby.

TI: And talk about the correspondence. How often did Bako write to the famly?

MI: I think Ish got the most and then I still have mine.

TI: Oh, I haven't seen those. So you have letters from him?

MI: Yeah, I have it.

TI: And you have him here someplace, or where are they?

MI: I might have it here. I kept that. Because it shows one time where he and John went to see, went to Vatican City and saw the pope.

TI: Oh, because the 442nd, they were fighting in Italy.

MI: Well, they happened to be in Italy before they went on to battle. And then so John and Bako went to see him. And apparently the day they went to see the pope, there were a lot of Japanese military people. And so I think they kind of got a special audience with the pope.

TI: When you say Japanese, you mean, Japanese from Japan or Japanese Americans?

MI: Other 442 people that went to the Vatican that day to see the Vatican. I guess they got wind of it there were a lot of Japanese soldiers, Japanese American soldiers. I think they kind of got a special audience with the pope. And then after that, Bako went to Castellina and died. And then later on, I know John Kawaguchi died, too. So I was glad that at least as Catholics, they were able to see the pope.

TI: Any other, kind of, memories or correspondence with Bako, either training camp or in Europe?

MI: Well, I have those letters. I'll look it up. I think I know where it is.

TI: So I'm trying to think. Oh, yeah, in terms of Rome, I've read where the 442nd was pretty instrumental in terms of liberating Rome from the Germans. And there was this story that, as the American troops were marching into Rome, the 442nd was actually in front because they were one of the key troops to liberate. And they were actually ordered to move to the side so that others, the other American troops would enter a room first, and I know that was kind of a big disappointment.

MI: Oh, that I don't know.

TI: But they were so instrumental in liberating that part of Italy.

MI: Well, I know one of the first battles was Castellina.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

TI: So we're after Rome, your brother was able to see the pope, then Castellina, which is around July 4, 1944.

MI: Yeah, so it was about two or three weeks after he saw the pope.

TI: That he was killed in action. So July 1944, at Minidoka, now it's your parents, you and Chuck, your three sisters are either working or at school, and then Bako gets killed. How did the family find out?

MI: Well, I think we must have telegraphed them, and then they all came back.

TI: No, I'm sorry, how did you and your parents and Chuck find out that...

MI: Well, Lily Morinaga, she was head of... I mean, she worked in that Western Union, where all the Western Union came. And then she noticed that, I mean, she saw Bako's obituary. And then I don't know, she delivered it to us, the telegram.

TI: So let me just sort of summarize that. So Lily Morinaga Hohri, later on she married Hohri, so she worked in the...

MI: And she's Kagoshima-ken.

TI: Okay, Kagoshima-ken. So you knew her before, and she worked in the administration area where the Western Union came in.

MI: Came in. And then somehow or another, she brought our, the telegram to Mom and Dad.

TI: And who was there when she came to the...

MI: Well, I was there. And to this day, Lily said that when the telegram came, I know my dad told my mom that she killed Bako. Because she's the one that made it so that he could pass his medical service.

TI: And was that something that Lily told you?

MI: Yeah, Lily told me that.

TI: Oh, so when she was there, when she gave the telegram...

MI: She said, "Your dad said," told my mom, "'You killed Bako.'" But things were so damn hectic then. But I know that if Bako didn't get in the service, it isn't Bako, you know. He would rather be with his friends than be on the outside.

TI: You said that when Lily delivered the Western Union telegram, that you were there also?

MI: Yeah.

TI: Do you remember your father saying that to your mom?

MI: Well, I didn't hear him say that, but she was right there beside Dad when he told Mom. But I was there, though, but I didn't hear that. And she told me.

TI: Now, was that part of Lily's normal job, that she had to deliver these telegrams to other families?

MI: That I don't know. I know she worked at the Western Union office.

TI: Or do you think she might have done it because of the Kagoshima connection?

MI: That I don't know. Anyway, I mean, maybe because she knew Dad and Mom so well, she did it for the office, I don't know.

TI: And how old is Lily? How much older is she than you?

MI: Well, she's the same class as, maybe even about the same age as Hiroko.

TI: So she's a young woman.

MI: What?

TI: She was just a young woman.

MI: Yeah. I mean, she would be... I was seventeen then, so five years older, so she'd be about twenty-two.

TI: And after she delivered the telegram, do you have any other memories of that?

MI: Well, I know like Mr. Kimura was there, he's another Kagoshima-ken guy. And then he went to pass the word around to the other Kagoshima-ken people.

TI: So Mr. Kimura was like a family friend?

MI: Yeah, family friend. He's the one that made that dresser, you know, the one I told you to pick up that dresser?

TI: Oh, yes, yes. Oh, the dresser that...

MI: That he made for us in camp.

TI: Oh, that's Mr. Kimura, and he was the one...

MI: He used to work at Selleck, Washington. And he's the one that gave us that root, the one I had that, that root plant.

TI: So this is a dresser that was made at Minidoka, that you had at your house, and when we cleaned it out.

MI: Yeah, so I told you to...

TI: Yeah, so when I found out that was from Minidoka, we kept it. And that's Mr. Kimura who was a good family friend. Was Mr. Kimura there when Lily...

MI: Yeah, I think he happened to come over that day. See, he's one of the bachelors that wanted to drink sake. [Laughs]

TI: And you said your mother wasn't... she was kind of sickly during this time.

MI: Well, you know, she had her problems, like hay fever. Like she had that tumor, and something else must have been wrong with her, too.

TI: And where was your younger brother Chuck when you guys got the telegram?

MI: He was at a farm doing potato picking.

TI: And so how did word get to him?

MI: Well, the farmer came to -- this is what Frank Sato says -- that the farmer came and told Chuck to pack up because they would take him back to camp because Bako died.

TI: So the other one that... so I know that Bako had a girlfriend, had a girlfriend at Minidoka?

MI: Yeah, Jean Suguro.

TI: And so do you know who told her?

MI: That, I don't know. But anyway, she found out, anyway. And then Mary Jane and Kaji and Ish, they all came back to camp.

TI: And when you found out, and as all this is happening, what did you do? Or did you stay with your parents, did you go someplace?

MI: No, were in camp. There wasn't much you could do but stay in camp.

TI: No, but I meant did you stay in the apartment or did you...

MI: Well, this is where... the Endos lived in the corner unit and then they let me and Chuck stay in their room as people came over, that we could stay in the room. That was one thing about camp, I think we all survived camp because we helped each other. I mean, you know, we got along with them and we helped each other. And so when Bako died, Mr. and Mrs. Endo said, "Come on," and Chuck and I stayed in their room.

TI: So also during this time, Father Tibesar, did anything happen with Father Tibesar during this time? Was he there?

MI: Well, he was there. I mean... I think we must have had a mass there for Bako.

TI: Kaji said that he did a mass for, a memorial service for Bako.

MI: Yeah. I mean, even when we came back, I think he did the mass. I really don't know, I can't remember.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

TI: Now, you showed me years ago the pictures of the outdoor memorial service. Do you remember that service, do you remember being there?

MI: Oh, I cried like heck. There were other servicemen, too, it wasn't just Bako, there was other... and then it was a big field that, oh, it was just full of people. I mean, everybody's in camp. It was sad.

TI: And so how did they set up... were the families, like at other memorial services, you guys were in front?

MI: Yeah, well, Dad and Mom were, and the other gold star parents were there. I think I was on the side.

TI: And in that photograph, the gentleman who presented the flag...

MI: Yeah, that was Mr... I can't remember his name, but he had, we was just like an emcee.

TI: And did he present the flags to the other families, too?

MI: I don't know who presented the flag to him, I really can't remember that.

TI: Or to the other families? Like I'm blanking, you know, the courthouse is named after him.

MI: Oh, William Nakamura. He lived in Block 16, too.

TI: Yeah, so he also was killed in action.

MI: He died right after Bako, yeah.

TI: And so was the flag, did the same Issei gentleman...

MI: That part there I really don't know. I just know later on that that picture came up. I had a crying jag that day.

TI: I'm sorry, you had a what?

MI: Crying jag. So I really can't remember.

TI: And the photograph, I think, was taken by a Japanese American with...

MI: That I don't know.

TI: Yeah, because it was actually in a publication.

BY: So was there a photographer there documenting the whole ceremony then?

TI: Yeah.

BY: And are there other pictures from that same ceremony?

MI: I think there were about four or five other families.

TI: So I've seen pictures of the stage, who was on the stage, and the striking thing to me was, from the photographs, there weren't any military officials.

MI: Yeah, that's what Junks keeps saying, I don't know.

TI: And it wasn't like they couldn't be there, because you had military officials on the perimeter guarding.

MI: But it was big gathering, that's all I could say.

BY: So the fact that no military people even told the families, first of all, that their sons had been killed and then did not attend the memorial service.

MI: I think that was it for all the camps. Because it wasn't just Minidoka, Castellina, a lot of the servicemen died there. And the biggest one was the Lost Battalion.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

TI: And so shortly after that, or having your sisters come back, did the family have any discussions when they were back? Do you remember talking to them about what was going to be next in terms of should the family move out of camp or anything like that?

MI: I think they started, like Hiroko couldn't support Mom and Dad, Chuck and me in Chicago, so I think we should just stay put. And then Mary Jane at that time was going around with...

TI: Joe?

MI: Joe.

TI: Yeah, Joe Hashisaki.

MI: And then they got married on VJ Day. And then Hiroko helped her on that. Ish was still going to school, so we just kind of left it at that. What else could you do? And then Mom and Dad were kind of broke, real broke, supporting, giving money to Hiroko to go to Chicago and Mary Jane had to have pin money in St. Paul, and Ish had to have pin money, too.

TI: So earlier you mentioned, how was it that you came back to Seattle? You mentioned being the first family back to Seattle.

MI: Yeah, well, that was because of Father Tibesar.

TI: So tell me about how that came about.

MI: Well, he more or less... I don't know. One interesting story is the Sasaki family. He used to have a laundry before. And so he got him a job doing the laundry at this one place. And so the whole family went to Detroit. The Sasakis has four girls, Agnes, Teresa, Magdalene, and Bernadette. And the place that he was doing the laundry was a Catholic seminary where the young boys were being, learning to become priests. [Laughs] I don't know what happened. But anyway, Teresa said, "Oh, that was strange." [Laughs] I just laughed.

TI: They were there to be their temptation, I guess, to test their faith.

MI: And then he got a... I don't know, but anyway, Bishop Shaughnessy needed a cook, and kind of like a housekeeper. And so he hired us, and so we were the first family to come back to Seattle.

TI: So do you think Father Tibesar...

MI: He's the one that arranged it.

TI: Yeah, arranged it. Was it because, partly because of what happened to Bako?

MI: Yeah, I think a lot... I mean, he was trying to place all these families to different places. Like the Nakagawas went to Detroit, a lot of them went to L.A., and a lot of them went to Chicago. They never came back, though. Except Sasakis, part of them came back.

TI: And do you think your parents wanted to go back to Seattle?

MI: More or less. I mean, they didn't want to go anywhere else. And then at least they knew Seattle, so they were more comfortable with it. And then as long as they were able to get a job in Seattle right away.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

TI: Yeah, so earlier we were talking -- and Barbara, you were asking -- so yeah, the Catholic church was, had this large hub in Seattle. It was kind of the headquarters for the archdiocese.

MI: Well, Seattle was an archdiocese.

TI: Archdiocese, so it was a large... and you mentioned Bishop Shaughnessy, so he was the head of the church in Seattle.

MI: And he was one of the few that objected to the evacuation, there was all kinds of letters.

TI: Yeah, he was opposed to that. And so he essentially has you, Chuck, and your parents move in with him in Seattle. And so this is the bishop's house?

MI: Yeah. See, Chuck stayed in the basement of the bishop's house, and he had to serve mass every morning for the bishop. And he was going to school and playing sports, so seven-thirty in the morning, and a lot of times the bishop had to wake him up. [Laughs]

TI: So he lived in the basement. Where did you and your --

MI: Tapo was in the second floor.

TI: Yeah, but where did you and --

MI: And then they had a double garage, and there was an apartment house there. And so my mom and dad had a bedroom with a bathroom, and I had a living room, and then I had a small cubbyhole bedroom with a bath and a sink. And that's where we lived.

TI: Yeah, it's very cool because it's still there, it's right off of Boren, and I drive by there and I look at that, and it's like a carriage house, or the double garage, but it was probably a carriage house and apartment.

MI: That's where we lived, uh-huh. But we didn't stay there too much because we were always in the bishop's house.

TI: So explain. So you mentioned Chuck, how he had to, as an altar boy, serve mass, and also later on became his driver.

MI: And then after school, as soon as he turned sixteen, they taught him how to drive. And then he was the chauffeur for the bishop for his things after school. And so it really put it in with his sports.

TI: Okay, so that was Chuck's job, what was your job?

MI: And then every morning I had to get up and turn the beds, I mean, make the bed, clean up the bathroom, pick up things. And then I helped my mom with the breakfast. And then I went to school. And after I got home from school, I had to either help my mom or something. And then after dinner, I had to go upstairs and turn down his bed and everything, and pick up things. And then I had to the sacristy for next day's mass.

TI: And what's a sacristy?

MI: I had to get his vestments out.

TI: Okay, he has all the robes and everything.

MI: And that's where I had trouble with the bishop. I always got the wrong vestment out.

TI: Oh, because there were certain vestments for certain...

MI: Yeah, certain holidays, he wore a certain vestment, and I didn't know which one. He used to get mad, he said, "Put it on the floor." And then I knew, "Uh-oh, I goofed." But I told the father, "Let me know what kind vestment I'm supposed to give him." I don't know.

TI: And how about, what did your mother do?

MI: Oh, she did the cooking. And then on weekends I think I had to help her with the laundry, and I did the mangling, ironed the sheets and whatnot. And then I had to clean the upstairs, second floor and do the vacuuming and working.

TI: And you told me stories, you said the bishop really liked your mom's cooking?

MI: Oh, yeah. He never had it so good. [Laughs]

TI: What were some of his favorite dishes that your mom made?

MI: Well, Mom was a good cook. So whenever the other guests come, like the bishop of Spokane and whatnot, they would invite him over to dinner, lunch.

TI: And your mom would make a special lunch?

MI: Yeah, tempura or something, and they just went crazy over it.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

TI: And how about your father, what did your father do?

MI: My dad had to do serving. And then when they came in he had to take their, whatever things, put them away. I guess he kind of kept the downstairs clean.

TI: And also, didn't he do the yardwork also?

MI: Well, later on he did.

TI: So I remember that's what he would he always...

MI: Then he did the yardwork. But we had to leave there because after my sister got married, she got pregnant right away. And Joe had to go to Japan, and she was pregnant back in St. Paul. She had to come back, and we had no place to put her. He couldn't stay at our place, at the bishop's house, and so we had to go find a house that she could move into.

TI: Is that the house that was by...

MI: Yeah, that's 36 Eighteenth Avenue. So we bought the house about September. She got married in August and she was pregnant, so about September, October, we bought the house, and that was the only way we could get out of the bishop's house.

TI: You also told me this story about the bishop and maybe the closest he felt to your family. And this was because he didn't live that much longer, I think, after...

MI: Oh no, I can't remember when he died, but when he knew he was going to die, he asked that we come and see him. And so the four of us went to see him and then he asked what we were doing and all that. And then after that interview, Chuck just said to me, "You know, I think the bishop liked us." I mean, he treated us nice and we treated him nice, too. So it was kind of like a thank you on both ends when we went to see him.

TI: You know, the other thing I wanted to talk about, and you mentioned some of Bako's friends that played, he played basketball with, Bako played on the Maryknoll. You mentioned Augie Aratani and...

MI: The only thing, cadets was more of a Courier League, and that was Taro, Sambo, George Kosaka, Dutch Takekawa, John Kawaguchi, that was a real close-knit group. But before, the only cadets, I know Maryknoll had Boy Scouts, and Bako was in the Boy Scouts with them. And then Ish and Kaji, I know they were in the Girl Scouts.

TI: But so Bako had these really close friends before the war, and many of these men served with him on the 442?

MI: Just Sambo did. Sambo and maybe Nobi.

TI: But people like Augie, wasn't he...

MI: Augie, I think he was in a different company, but they knew, I mean, he and Augie were real good friends from Maryknoll days.

TI: So I'm wondering, when they returned to Seattle, what did they say to you or your parents about Bako?

MI: Well, they treated us real good. Taro used to pick us up to go mushroom picking and everything.

TI: Or can you describe any of the visits of the men when they returned to Seattle? And you also mentioned these Hawaii guys from the 100th that would stop by and see your mom?

MI: Yeah, they came over. I mean, they just gave their condolences and bought flowers.

TI: To show their respects?

MI: Yeah.

TI: Any information or stories from them about Bako that you remember?

MI: I really don't... Ish might know. Ish and Bako were real close.

TI: Because by then, Ish was back in Seattle.

MI: Well, she was in Peoria or wherever she was. But when she came back, I knew she and Bako and Jane really got along together.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 27>

TI: Barb, anything that you want to ask? So we've been doing this for two hours now, so I wanted to kind of... just any last thoughts? We can talk about raising a family, but in terms of anything that you want to talk about?

MI: Well, I think that's because of Bako and everything that... Junks wants to keep that Kinoshita reunion going. And then we had twelve Kinoshita reunions from 1993, and they're still going strong. And all the cousins know each other well. I know it pleases Junks real bad, good.

TI: Well, and you sharing this story, all the cousins don't know this.

MI: Sure they do.

TI: Not really, Mom. If I asked, like the Kigas or I see Peter Hashisaki, they don't really know the details of these things.

MI: About what?

TI: About how like Jiichan and Baachan were told at Minidoka.

MI: Well, that... what is there to tell? [Laughs]

TI: Well, I think the details are really powerful.

MI: But I know for the cousins to be that close, it's amazing. Because in camp, I know the cousins sure didn't get along with each other. [Laughs] But we didn't have any cousins so it didn't matter.

TI: Okay. So that's... I mean, you did an incredible job.

MI: But anyway, I think that's one of the reasons why Dad kind of wants to keep that Kinoshita reunion going.

TI: Just to remember those connections.

MI: I mean, he sure likes to see all the different cousins get together.

BY: How do you feel about that? Do you also share those feelings?

MI: Yeah, well, I think it's nice. I mean, you don't see other families that close.

BY: So it's important to you as well?

MI: Yeah. And then especially like the Hashisakis, they were raised in Montana, and they're more Japanesey than we are now. [Laughs] I mean, she's the one that wants to keep the New Year's tradition going on.

TI: With the traditional foods.

MI: And so among the four girls, the Kigas, Hashisakis, Tanabes and Ikedas, we take turns each year having New Year's.

BY: I think for my family, we have a Yasui family reunion every five years, and it's the same thing. But what we're realizing is that although we as cousins are very close, our kids are not so close. And so how do we keep that family connection going with the Yonsei and Gosei?

MI: So we have it every year. [Laughs]

TI: And we do it over a weekend, so it's overnight. And so actually the Yonsei generation is really close. Because from a young age, they -- and we had all those, like you probably do, we had these picnic games, the old traditional...

BY: Oh yeah, three-legged race.

TI: Three-legged, but with getas, we did it with things like that. And the watermelon, all those things.

MI: So when we have pictures of the kids from 1996 on. And then Junks made twelve books, and then it shows how all the kids grew up.

TI: Yeah, so they have a lot of the same feelings, I think, that we had with our first cousins growing up, they have the same thing.

BY: That's great. Yeah, I think doing it every year and having it over...

MI: And then we canceled three reunions because of the pandemic. And then it's more or less our turn to...

TI: To do New Year's.

MI: New Year's it's going to be our turn.

TI: But it's interesting how a lot of it -- and Dad has said this too -- it's almost like also remembering Bako.

MI: Yeah, it's to honor Bako. I mean, we're saying that it's too bad he's not here.

BY: This will be a highlight of your next reunion, I think.

MI: Because as far as I'm concerned, we have a real close family, which is a lot of comfort, you know.

TI: Well, thank you so much for doing this. It's taken years for you share this story, so thank you.

MI: Well, you knew most of it.

BY: It's such a powerful and touching story, though, it really is.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.