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MM: And I must say, the Japanese community in Philadelphia saw Mother and Dad as a couple, and they never treated Mother as being white.

VY: Talk more about that, because we didn't talk about that very much. So before we conclude, I think it would be good to kind of revisit that time and what it was like when you as a family were around other Japanese Americans, and any other activities that you did together. I know your dad was involved with the JACL for a bit, and I think you had mentioned that you gone to some community picnics at one point.

MM: Yes. My father and mother were equally (respected) seniors in the front (...). So my mother would be the only white (person) there. She didn't realize that, just like she's the only woman on the stage, because she was so involved in supporting the Japanese American situation during the war and after the war, before, very pro-Japanese. Education about Japan, Japanese and so on, welfare. And I was always amazed, my mother stood out to me because everybody else was Japanese in the front table, and there would my mother be, right there. And, of course, she knew everybody and they knew her. And they welcomed her because they always did things for Japan or the JACL together. And there were, after the Second World War, there were a lot of people from Seabrook Farms, and I went to school and one of my classmates was from, Larry Seabrook and his brother went to this George school. And so we were acquainted with the farming of these Quakers. They went into the frozen food, I think that was, at that time. And Mother would always be helping Dad get involved with the administration, because she was the English writer for him. So he would often want to speak up, and she would always sit there, smile, and help him, and would be putting it in proper English. So that's why you have that article you'll see, is well-written by Tada Mikuriya. But she was always so proud of her husband, and she would let other people know he did this and that and consider that. She didn't ever think about herself as doing anything special, but she was a (usual) mother, (wife/supporter).

And Dad didn't think he was anything special either, but the two of them together, when my father got dementia, I found a place for my father to go, and there, it was all for dementia people and they walk around the lot. So this lady is walking, holding hands with this person, this lady thinks it's her mother, that lady thinks it's her sister. And they're walking happily together in this dementia -- my father would have fit in there. My mother couldn't let him go. She said, "I will feel, (I would be abandoning him) leaving in this place." And then when he died, my mother said, "I can't believe it, I feel like he's abandoned me." I said, "Mom, he died." She said, "Well, that's what I feel like. I feel like I've been abandoned." So there was this close working relationship with him, and the Japanese community (which) saw them as a unit, and I was very appreciative of that. And I was always seen as the child and put at the child's table, even though I was sometimes twenty years older than some of the children. But that's the way it was. [Laughs]

VY: That's interesting. Why was that?

MM: Because the Issei were one generation. And my father came over here so much earlier (in 1923). So I was his child and I would be there. I mean, I remember in 1956, I went to a JAC picnic, and with these twenty-year-old, and I was forty (seated at) the children's table. So you can see that the other (JACL members) were much younger.

VY: I see, it was all a generational category.

MM: Seating, yes.

VY: Oh, interesting.

MM: Well, we didn't have as much Japanese food at home like they would make for the holidays, so my brother and I liked to go there because we would get all sorts of extra different types of sushi, so we really liked that. And my mother didn't make that. She made sukiyaki as a guest dish, and she would do that. And I remember she was serving raw egg once, and they were just amazed that people in Japan eat raw egg with sukiyaki. That isn't the culture here, but that's what it is like in Japan.

VY: What kind of food would your mom bring to the get-togethers? What would she cook to bring to the picnics or the community gatherings?

MM: I don't remember, I don't remember. Because I don't remember... I (only) remember eating, enjoying going table to table and eating, but I don't remember what she would bring. But she may have made some her good bread, she was a good baker, I don't know.

VY: But it was a good opportunity for you and your brother to eat Japanese food?

MM: Oh, yes, it was the only opportunity to cook foods that took a lot of time to roll up. I mean, she could do the sukiyaki type, but that's the only thing she would make for special guests and Japanese food. And my father was a fisherman, so he'd go out fishing, and that's how you strengthen your ties with the business community, take other people out there. But the funny thing is, they go out on the boat, New Jersey shore, and they bring the fish back in. And then Mother and Dad would clean it right away and put in the freezer, and they would save all the fish heads and make fish head soup. And, of course, they loved it and they loved the eyes. There were just certain thing as children we couldn't adjust to. But it spoiled us for having any kind of fish because we always this very super-fresh fish since it was frozen the same day it was caught. But we couldn't go along with fish head soup as children, but Mom and Dad would sit at the table and enjoy them. So, yes, there were some things. When I went to college, I didn't know what black bottom pie was, I didn't know what pigs in blankets were. I mean, it was all this stuff that I've never had, and my mother was a natural food (advocate). So we didn't have hot dogs, let alone hot dogs wrapped with bacon, yes. So that's when I realized we weren't raised as Americans when we had all this food that was so different.

VY: Yeah, it's a different, definitely a different experience, I think, that you had, than probably most people. You were children of two immigrants from different countries.

MM: And we didn't go out to each much, and when we did, we were like the show that walked into the restaurant. So it was just very interesting.

I feel very appreciative my father inculcated into us that we were Japanese, and that Mother was very supportive of it because she would tell about her wonderful experiences in Japan and laugh at herself doing things and what would happen (there). So it was a very positive feeling of being Japanese, even though that was a bad (thing during WWII). She never emphasized the German part of her at all because the Japanese overrode (our) background, because I think she identified more with Japanese, just like my Black daughter identifies with my Japanese cousins, because she knows them. It's hard to explain, but I see it, because she lived in Japan with these relatives and still, and they come and they stay in the house and she's so comfortable helping with their English. And one my cousins, first cousins came, Yoshiko, and she came when she was eighteen. And Mother would not allow her to not drive. She said, "Driving is a skill that you need in this country." And they didn't have a car in Japan, so she didn't have a feel about the car, riding in a car. (Yoshiko) got her master's in chemistry, worked in a research group. So, you know, she's so happy she's driving now. It's a great opportunity to step in both worlds. And her world, though, she speaks Japanese, her husband is Jewish, their child was raised Jewish and Japanese-speaking. (Her son Lenny's) married, a white woman who was Japanese-speaking, and they speak Japanese to their child. And Yoshiko babysits her grandson. So, I mean, each culture, each custom does differently when they're mixed, but it's interesting to see that the families are carrying on the Japanese tradition.

VY: Yeah, it's so interesting. It's so interesting. I've had such a wonderful time getting to know you and your family, I mean, it's very different and inspiring, really.

MM: [Laughs] That's a good word.

VY: It really is. And I only have one more question for you, but before I do, I want to make sure that we've talked about all the things that you think are important today to talk about. Is there anything else you want to add that you think that we maybe missed or that you want to make sure people know?

MM: I think my mother's comment, when you marry somebody of a different culture, being a partner in that relationship, you have to think twice because you don't know why the no is there. Is it cultural? Is it personality, or is it a new belief, you don't know. So I think they both tiptoed around this awareness of cultural attitude of trying to understand each other. So there was a lot of conversation in our house all the time about understanding this or that, or different points of view. And I think that's what made their relationship interesting and very good for the children because we never heard them argue. We never got hit because my mother would talk us to death until, "Did you understand the importance of this or the meaning of it?" or so on. So talk was very important, and respect for one another was very important.

VY: That really comes through. It comes through so much, I can tell it's such a strong core value in your family.

MM: Yeah. And you know, I went to college and I thought everybody loved their mother. What a shock. I didn't know that there were families that didn't even like their relatives. But when you come from, it's really hard when you get, meet somebody, and you come from a family that gets along, it's very difficult to understand when people come from a family who don't get along. Very hard to even empathize, because you can't envision that. So I feel very fortunate. [Laughs] Thank you for having this conversation, and I hope Tadafumi Mikuriya will be acknowledged for all his good work in Japan and in this country.

VY: Yeah, thank you so much.

MM: Thank you.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.