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BN: Okay. So in Jerome, did your parents have jobs at Jerome, or do you know what they were up to?

FS: Yeah, well, I guess everybody takes a train trip to Jerome, so there's nothing there. But the camp experience, I think my father... well, maybe both my parents worked in the kitchen. I'm pretty sure my mother did, and I think my father did, too. Because they used to always take portraits of the people together that were in the kitchen. That's my only recollection of the work. My father did do a lot of drawing when he was in Jerome, so he obviously made an effort to get out there when he could.

BN: He's just drawing scenes of what's going on in the camp?

FS: Yeah. I put most of those in the book, too, but the full collection is in Arkansas, Butler Center. He did a lot of charcoal, kind of watercolor combinations. I think he tried to depict some of the activities, the men sitting around doing mah jong or sho, or whatever they were playing together.

BN: Was he able to exhibit those?

FS: Exhibit?

BN: Yeah, I know there were camp art shows.

FS: Yeah, actually, Butler Center, they almost do a show every year. And then this last year, or year before, they took one of his, the autumn leaves picture which is on the cover, and they made a full banner back there at Butler Center.

BN: At the time? While the camp was in operation? Because at some camps they did have art shows even at the time.

FS: Oh, yeah. Well, I don't know if he did any exhibiting or anything in camp. I'm not aware of it. They did have an art show in Gila, but we're talking about Jerome right now, Arkansas, so I don't recall anything. I remember, the one thing I recall for me is I did take judo, and there were judo classes because I have a picture of it. That and football, I first learned how to do football.

[Interruption]

BN: You were talking about judo. Was this like a formal class that was offered at Jerome?

FS: Yeah, I think so. I think there was a lot of formality. I'm not sure of all the martial arts, I don't know whether they had kendo and things like that. But I just remember judo because it was a portrait. I wasn't an expert.

BN: Then you also mentioned before that you picked up your love of music and big band music, right, while you were... was that at Jerome, or was that at Gila?

FS: That was in Gila.

BN: Gila, okay. Did you have any... because Jerome is largely Fresno people and L.A. people. Did you have a recollection of that or did you get to know kids from outside of L.A.? Was there a difference?

FS: Yeah. We never talked about areas... I guess I wasn't old enough to be a kind of, I don't want to say gang, but you know, where you kind of hung out with your types. We hung out with our friends, but they were friends I grew up with.

BN: So they were L.A. people?

FS: Yeah, they were L.A. people. I made friends, but more in Jerome, we were... I'm not sure why in Jerome. I don't recall a whole lot of friends other than the ones I knew. Our block was mostly L.A. people.

BN: So a lot of the people in the blocks were people that you knew from your neighborhood at home?

FS: Yeah. Well, not a lot, but several.

BN: Anything else you want to... okay. And then from there, Jerome closes early and then your family goes to Gila?

FS: Right.

BN: What were noticeable differences between the two camps from your perspective?

FS: Well, see, the major difference is the weather. And again, the trauma for my mother, from L.A. to Santa Anita and then to the snow country and the freezing cold, the only system of heating was a potbelly stove, that type of thing that I'm sure you're aware of. But anyway, the weather difference I even noticed even as a kid because it was icy and things like that, snow. Wet, everything was always wet. And the difference between a camp like Jerome and Gila is different kinds of reptiles, snakes, lots of snakes in Jerome. And then Jerome had a lot of chiggers, I guess, things that kind of get a, bite you all the time. Some of the new things I learned as a kid were the fireflies. I never knew what the heck those things were. They were all over Jerome. Yeah, the extreme weather... I learned how to play a little football back there in Jerome, only because my mother made shoulder pads for me and she made it out of Bull Durham tobacco bags. The guys, all the Issei used to smoke and so they rolled their own tobacco and they were in these little bags. I don't know if young people know what they look like, but they were bags about this big. And so my mother filled it up with some things on us or whatever, made these shoulder pads, and I could wear it under my t-shirt and I felt big. That was quite a psychological thing, because I know what it's like to wear shoulder pads even as a teen, later as a teen, and boy, you feel like you're a big man. [Laughs]

BN: So that was a real learning experience for me in Jerome. Was that more informal just pickup games or was this like an actual league with a schedule?

FS: I don't remember. I think they most have organized a little bit.

BN: Because you're only like ten?

FS: But I...

BN: This is, you're playing tackle football?

FS: Must have been, to a degree.

BN: Because you're only like ten years older.

FS: We were still pretty young then. So I think it's just activity.

BT: That was on a dirt field, too.

FS: Yeah, but, you know. [Laughs]

BT: That hurts.

FS: No, no, you're no big enough to hurt anybody yet. I wasn't even close to a hundred pounds, or eighty pounds or whatever. I was a pretty small, skinny guy.

BN: So you're what, in the years you're in camp, you're going to, what, like fourth, fifth grade, sixth grade, in that area?

FS: Let's see. I guess sixth grade.

BN: You're eight when you go in, or nine, I guess. You turned nine in '42. So that's probably third or fourth grade? Something like that. Four, five, six, maybe.

FS: Five, six, yeah. But I know when I got out of camp, I was in the eighth grade, I remember that.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.