<Begin Segment 9>

VY: Well, it sounds like it almost took spending time in another culture with your new family. It took time kind of spending time with this new family to learn more about who you were and where you came from, and to understand that more.

KI: Well, I would say this. I grew up as a cultural stranger to the society I live in. And when you're a cultural stranger, you can't assume things that, if you will, the natives assume, because you don't know what will happen to you. And in a manner of speaking, the fear I had about the war and camps reinforced that you can't assume a lot, because it can be taken away from you suddenly, you don't know. So as a stranger, they were constantly looking and observing. And part of your job as a survivor, I figured, is, oh, let me understand the other person. And this is typical of people who are strangers. There were a lot of Americans, children of missionaries, of businesspeople who go overseas, and what the children experience are multiple cultures, people who speak multiple languages, and where you can't assume everything is settled and you have to, if you will, be flexible. And in response, you have to flexible to what you see rather than impose your cultural values on the others. Otherwise you're going to -- if I could put it this way -- get burned. [Laughs] It isn't that you don't have values, but you're always constantly sensing differences as a stranger to protect yourself, you need to be alert. And you just can't take for granted the world.

VY: It sounds like you feel like you always have to, or you felt like you always have to tread carefully and step back a little bit and observe.

KI: Yes. And I'm a sociologist and so I deal with people from different circumstances. And before judging and shaping what I presume should be the case, I oftentimes find myself exploring the different sensibilities, being more flexible without sticking my foot in my mouth, so to speak. And, well, marrying into a Jewish family and having relatives really enrich the cultivation of, if you will, the stranger perspective, because Jews are strangers no matter if they look white.

VY: That's interesting. So you felt there's almost this kinship in that feeling of being a stranger.

KI: Precisely. And it's one of the things that bonded me to Leslie is we immediately understood we couldn't make assumptions about the world. Her father told... or it was her grandfather. She was playing with a girl and the grandfather says, "Is she Jewish?" She said no, and his response is, "Be careful." Now he was an immigrant from Lithuania, and not taking for granted the world is what he was telling her. Because you never know whether the Jew card is going to be pulled on you.

VY: Did you feel that way yourself about being Japanese American?

KI: Yeah. And there was that similarity that we had that was part of our emotional connection, is this idea that, "Be careful, don't assume too much."

VY: Do you feel like you still carry that with you, that feeling?

KI: Yeah.

VY: Like how do you feel now? Do you still feel like an outsider?

KI: Well, let me put it this way. We're no longer at war with Japan, and that has been the case almost seventy-five years. So, but what we inherit is a new sensibility about China, and you look Chinese. I said, "Well, I'm not." But then again, a crazy person doesn't know or care whether you're Chinese or Filipino or whatnot, they're going to swear at you or push you into a subway or whatever. So this sense of being a stranger gets periodically resurrected because things happened. China was a friend of the U.S. in World War II, and the Chinese were wearing "I'm not Japanese" buttons. But now it's different. You know, I could say, "Oh, gee, I'm not Chinese." The world's a slippery place. And I'm cautious.

VY: You're still cautious?

KI: Oh, yeah. You know this is strange. If you're Japanese, how do you deal, during the war, how do you deal with the fact that Japan was your enemy and you're on this side? Like, what's the deal? And the deal is you're caught between worlds. And so you somewhat exaggerate yourself, "I'm a great American. I fought in the 442nd," an exaggeration if you will of being a Japanese John Wayne. "Okay, I'm a tough guy," But people don't always see you that way. But when my mother was growing up, I have to put it this way. The world isn't black and white. Although she was Japanese growing up on Bainbridge Island, she did have white friends and people who she related to, and people do relate. When war comes, "Oh my god, you're a Jap." So at any rate, when my wife's father told her, "Be careful," I'm thinking, "Yeah, that's great advice."

VY: It definitely resonated with you, you understood exactly what he meant.

KI: But it isn't to reject another person, but it's to find, well, where can we be? You know, like people in the north look at people in the south as rednecks or the most terrible things. But be cautious because your assumptions could be wrong. I've been in the South, I met a lot of nice people who were, in spite of the fact they were racist, I could relate to.

VY: In spite of it?

KI: Oh, sure. But I hate to be a skeptic. [Laughs]

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2022 Densho. All Rights Reserved.