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TI: That's interesting. So we haven't really talked so much about this. So how did you know who was, which families were in your ken? How did that come about?

VI: Because they were close, so we would meet their families, like the Tsuboi family. But there were quite a few bachelors that came, and also couples that didn't have children. So they were very close.

TI: So that's funny, I have to... and I think you know this story. But a long time ago, when I was in middle school, junior high school, it was kind of like this middle school crush I had on Bev Kashino, and her grandparents were Tsuboi. And I vaguely remember her mentioning how her grandparents were so excited that we were kind of dating. And so it's all based on the ken. I mean, that's how the Tsuboi, her Tsuboi grandparents knew your parents, from that ken, and that's why they were really close.

VI: Right. So the Kagawa-ken is on Shikoku island, which is a small island that not too many people come from. Usually people came to Japan, places like Hiroshima.

TI: Oh, you mean Kagoshima?

VI: Kagoshima. Poor, lot of the poor areas that they came to find more work.

TI: So was Shikoku different? It didn't have the same economic downturn as kind of these other places? Because not as many people came?

VI: Yeah, I think it was kind of isolated, so they didn't feel the different, I guess, variety of unemployment, and they were much more stable than the mainland of Japan.

TI: Yeah, so I want to go back to this ken connection, this is kind of interesting as I think about this. So Louise Kashino, she's a Tsuboi, so she came from the same ken as you did. So did you know her growing up, because of the closeness?

VI: Yes. Well, we knew each other, but they lived not close by, so we didn't associate with them. We got to associate with Lou probably after the war, much closer. In fact, the year before she died, we says, "Well, we'll have a kenjinkai, and we can take turns being president -- "

TI: Because there's only two of you left.

VI: "-- and vice president.' There were only two of us.

TI: But I'm trying to get a sense of the, as I think about this... so you mentioned earlier how people from the same ken feel close to each other. I also think about your parents' generation and how they would go back to their ken, their village or their town, and oftentimes they would get married there. And part of that was to get married by the same...

VI: Baishakunin?

TI: Baishakunin, but that same area. So was there every any kind of -- I never asked you this -- any pressure? Because both you and Louise came from the same ken that, oh, eventually the two of you should get together?

VI: [Laughs] No.

TI: There was nothing like that. So that wasn't so much for the Niseis, I was thinking, because there were so few.

VI: Because the only one from the Tsuboi family that I got close to was Louise, because she was my age or close to my age.

TI: Yeah, so that's why I was wondering, if your parents and Louise's parents ever thought, oh, because they're the same age...

VI: No, I don't think so.

TI: So there wasn't that pressure for Niseis?

VI: My parents never got into that type of...

TI: Yeah, I was just curious.

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