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BN: Now, of course, many of the people who answered 'yes-yes' on the "loyalty questionnaire," they left early. They went to, even before the West Coast opened up, they went to Chicago or New York. And I know you were very young, but were you aware of your parents considering that, or was it always kind of that they were going to go back?

RO: Yeah, my father, actually, drove his truck to the middle of the country thinking that he could find something there that would make sense. But then he came back and said, "We're going back to southern Cal."

BN: So they let him out to, kind of, explore the Midwest.

RO: Uh-huh.

BN: Interesting.

RO: He didn't see anything there for him, so he decided that we would go back.

BN: And did you, was it always going to be back to Los Angeles?

RO: Yeah, I guess. I mean, I had no say in this.

BN: Right, you're still ten. Because they didn't end up going back to the South Bay where they had been, they end up going to a completely... do you have any sense of why they ended up in East L.A.?

RO: They didn't have much money, so they had to go a place... also there were issues with JAs living in particular parts of city. I know that because my mother used to, would go around looking for a house, and there were areas that said, "We don't sell houses to Japs." But it turns out to be both a plus and a minus and we wound up in, on the east side of L.A. First of all, there were no, almost no whites. It was basically Latino and Jewish and some JAs. So I didn't have to deal with all of the problems that JAs faced when they went into areas which were primarily white, so that's a plus. [Laughs] The negative is that the school I went to wasn't very good. And so obviously I did very well because it wasn't that good. But when I got to UCLA, it was like the first time I ever had classes with white kids. And at that time, it was about, I'd say ninety-five percent white. There were very few who were not. And so I felt like they were smarter than me, and that was true, and also, I really wasn't that interested in school. I had other things more important like drinking and hanging with my (high school friends). And then, of course, I was working on weekends. So that was not a very positive experience for me, but on the other hand, that was my first experience with white people and it was good. It was good that I had that experience, because it helped me when I started working.

BN: Sure. Did you feel that... and we'll get back to Boyle Heights later, but while we're talking about school, you mentioned that you thought the quality of the teaching and so on was pretty good at Manzanar. Did you feel like you were able to just pretty seamlessly pick up things once you restarted school on the outside?

RO: Yeah, sure. In fact, I did very well because there wasn't much competition, and it was largely low income people and largely Latino.

BN: Were there particular teachers at Manzanar that you remember as being particularly memorable?

RO: Yeah. There was one third grade or fourth grade teacher I just loved. She was my first love. [Laughs] Of course, she didn't see it the same way.

BN: Of course.

RO: Yeah, so she, I really loved her, and she went back to the East Coast after. And I think I sent her letters for a while, but after that, it just kind of died out.

BN: Do you remember her name?

RO: No. I could find it if you want to.

BN: Yeah, yeah, that'd be interesting to know. One of the teachers that a lot of people from Manzanar mentioned is Lou Frizzell, the music teacher.

RO: Oh, uh-huh. Yeah, I wasn't into music at that point.

BN: So anyway, let's go back to after. When they left to go to Boyle Heights area, did they have a friend or someone that they were going with or was it, did they know people there already?

RO: Yeah, one of my uncles lived there, and in fact, when we first got there, we spent the first week or two in church. We weren't praying or anything, we had a little area that we could use for sleeping. And then we went to my uncle's house, he had room there so he helped us there.

BN: And is this uncle, is this one of your mother's siblings?

RO: My mother's sister and her husband. And he was another one that really got screwed because before the war, he owned a store in J-town with his two brothers who were in Japan. So they would send the stuff over and he would sell them. So that poor guy, he wound up after the war working in a small store behind the counter. And I remember going to see him so I knew what kind of work he was doing. And he still had this beautiful car because that's what he had, and that's what he was used to. So I think he really... my father really got screwed, but this guy really was even worse.

BN: But he was somehow able to hold onto the car even through, I assume he went to camp?

RO: Yeah, he did. I don't know how he, whether it was the car from before, or maybe just bought another one, I don't know. But it just reflects on how he was used to living, it was tough for him.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.