<Begin Segment 18>

BN: And then what did you do, you said you worked locally for a few years. What kind of work did you do?

RO: I was a computer software developer for three years. And that was when I finally realized that I was at least as smart than all these white people. And there was when, I think I was the only Asian in that group of software developers. And so it was good for me because I had nobody else to talk to, so I got to be more comfortable with white folks. And we'd play tennis together, we'd go out drinking and eating. So it was a good learning experience for me.

BN:  And they were accepting of you? I mean, you said UCLA you often weren't invited to study with the white students, but was it different once you started working?

RO: Yeah, it was very different. In fact, I hung out with them after work more than any other group.

BN: Were you still playing basketball and doing that kind of thing?

RO: I'm still doing a little. Because you probably have that experience, too. JAs don't quit basketball when they get out of high school.

BN: Right, until they injure themselves too badly to continue playing.

RO: [Laughs] That's right, yeah. So I played until I left, I think.

BN: And then what made you leave?

RO: I decided that I needed to be more, to see what it's like to live in the U.S. world outside of JAs. And I decided I really need to broaden myself, so fortunately, I was able to find a job on the East Coast and stayed there for, I don't know, twenty, thirty years, something like that.

BN: So where did you end up?

RO: It was in the north most area of New Jersey, which was all white. That's one thing I didn't realize that it would be so white. And in fact, when I first got there, I tried to find a room, and the first family I called to say, "I'm interested in the room that you have available," and she said, "Oh, come on over." So I went over there and knocked on the door and she said, "What is it?" And I said, "I'm here to answer," and she slammed the door in my face. And I thought, oh, what did I do? But fortunately, there was another ad for a family that were not Americans, they were white but not Americans, and they had no problem with me. Even though I was probably the first non-white that they had seen, it didn't matter to them. It was really a great experience, that I went from JA world to a white world, and I was literally the only nonwhite, I think, in our... and in the company that I worked for, they were, I think, two JAs and one black, and everyone else was white and there were about seven hundred people.

BN: Did you get the job first or did you go first...

RO: I got the job first. I called and told them what my experience was.

BN: So you were hired and then you moved?

RO: Right.

BN: And is this with Bell? Which company is this?

RO: I can't remember.

BN: Because I know you worked at Bell, right?

RO: That was later, Bell Labs.

BN: But this is earlier.

RO: Yeah. But it was a very highly regarded company in the software world. It was a great place for me to start.

BN: You did the same, were you doing the same type of work?

RO: Yeah, I spent almost all my life doing software development.

BN: And this is, what, like 1960-ish or late '50s?

RO: Yes, right around 1960.

BN: Because I'm familiar with what, to some degree, software developers did twenty or thirty years later. I don't have any idea what you would be doing at that point in time. What was that like?

RO: Well, when I first started, we would actually write the programs in the language of the computer. And so it was really kind of, almost... there was no language at any higher level. And then, over time, then we got some languages that were above that level, so that's primarily what I did.

BN: Are you using punch cards at this time?

RO: We started with punch cards, exactly.

BN: And then what languages, what were the languages you were using?

RO: Oh, there were no languages.

BN: There were no... this is before that even existed?

RO: Yeah.

BN: Interesting.

RO: And then when I came to the east, then I went to a very advanced company and they were using these languages, so I picked that up. It's really funny because when I think about my son, my son is in his thirties now, (he's making big bucks). [Laughs]

[Interruption]

BN: And you are not.

RO: It was embarrassing to have to admit that. It's more than I ever made. [Laughs] And I was the chief information officer of a large company.

BN: But then he's got to send his kid to a college that costs seventy-five thousand dollars a year, you went for free, so there's that.

RO: That's true. It's so funny, he's thirty-six, and he's not in a high position.

BN: That's the market.

RO: That's the market, I guess. So I'm happy because he's doing well, but it's kind of embarrassing that he's making more than I ever made.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2021 Densho. All Rights Reserved.