<Begin Segment 27>

BY: Were you involved in the first Day of Remembrance? I'm guessing not because of your age.

TI: No, I wasn't, but I've interviewed people who were.

BY: Any chance that you recall what you were doing that Thanksgiving, 1978?

TI: Well, '78... so I was in college.

BY: Just graduated.

TI: Yeah, so I was in college. But in some ways, I think, back then I was pretty swamped by just getting through college with my chemistry and chemical engineering degrees. But I was aware of it, but I wasn't involved.

BY: So Densho, in a sense, is standing on the shoulders of the Seattle Evacuation Redress Committee, in my opinion. Can you tell me who among the committee particularly impressed you and is there anyone involved in Seattle redress you think was overlooked or who deserves more credit than they received?

TI: As someone who was there at the beginning of Densho -- and I didn't really realize his involvement with the Seattle redress group -- was Henry Miyatake. And so Henry, I think was really important. And I remember, in particular, when we first started the project, how do we get the support of the community? And someone mentioned, who wasn't as knowledgeable about the history -- they said, well, boy, we should get the national JACL to be kind of a key endorser of Densho because that would unlock, open a lot of doors. And I remember Henry saying, "No." And when he first said that, I thought, oh, that's interesting. I didn't really understand the nuances and all that, but he said, "No, absolutely not, we won't do that," or, "you should not do that." And that actually, and the discussion that ensued, helped us to say, okay, so probably we are going to be unattached to any organization because any organization we attach ourselves to, there's a perspective or baggage or whatever, so we could be this brand new one that's actually viewed as very much Sansei-led and new in that way. So that people will scratch their heads and say, "Well, so who are they aligned with?" And the idea being, we wanted to be able to get stories from the activist groups, the military people, on and on, JACLers, and the anti-JACLers, because that's part of the whole story, so it actually kind of worked that way. So Henry had a key influence, I think more than anyone. And if you ever get a chance, you should see his interview.

BY: Yeah, I'll make a point of that. Because I think he's really revolutionary, I think, well, at least Bob's account. And one thing that just really makes Hayakawa's -- and I think it becomes a proxy for reactionary conservatism -- makes his views so abhorrent, is he tried to ascribe the redress movement to Japanese Americans just wanting to get in on the radical chic of the other groups. And to think that middle-aged Boeing engineers started it.

TI: No, it's a really good story.

BY: Curious to me also, Mike Lowry played a quite important role, it seems. And I'm wondering if you think his role has been discounted in any way because of some of the problems he had as a governor.

TI: I don't think so. That's an interesting... you referenced Bob's book, which looks at it from a Seattle perspective. I've talked with, on a national level, other people who were involved with redress, and what I'm thinking is that Mike Lowry, in his early legislation for redress was important to get things moving. But my sense was, when I look at how it all played out in the parties and what was needed, it probably wasn't connected and strategic with some of the other key pieces. The Seattle group was viewed as a little bit of a renegade, and that was important. I think they really moved the needle in terms of things happening. But they weren't the body that I think, that people coalesced with, that they could make this thing happen, and there needed to be some other forces in play, which I've come to appreciate. I think when I first read Bob's book and interview, I had a sense that the Seattle role was more strategic, including Mike Lowry and what he did. I think it was maybe, could be viewed more as a catalyst versus, than actually as strategic in what happened. So I think his role, if people don't know about him, that's a shame, but I think he's known as the congressman who was the first one to pass legislation and that helped move things forward.

BY: Enthusiastically embraced the cause, yeah. So I can't remember if we closed this loop. But, so has the division around those who joined the army and those who resisted, has that been healed?

TI: It's much better, because, frankly, many people are now no longer with us that had the strongest feelings. I think the ones who felt the strongest ill feelings towards the resisters were a lot of the 442 vets who are generally not with us anymore. And the same thing with the draft resisters who felt most hurt by it and actually angry are no longer with us. And so I think part of the disappearance of that tension is because many of the major players are no longer with us, and if they were still here, it would still be going on because it was that deep.

BY: Because I lost track of some of the formal, was it JACL efforts to mend...

TI: Yeah. So the JACL, they did apologize to the draft resisters, and that must have been over ten years ago. And then more recently they did an apology to what they called the Tule Lake resisters, people who were renunciants, they apologized to them.

BY: If you could recommend just one book about Japanese Americans, what would it be?

TI: Wow.

BY: You can get back to me on that one if you want, Tom.

TI: Yeah, I'll get back to you. That I'm not sure.

BY: But soon, please, because I love to ask people that question, because it's proven so valuable in my experience.

TI: Okay, I'll give that thought. People ask me, yeah, that's a hard one.

BY: It is, but I tell you, that question has done me a lot of good in my life. Have you met any Japanese Americans who have kept mementos such as a coil or strand of barbed wire?

TI: Yeah, or the ones I see oftentimes are these little pins that people made from the shells like at Tule Lake, because that used to be an old seabed and they made these ornamental shells. Or you will come across, and they'll show me some of the furniture that they made in camp from scrap wood that they still have. So those are, I mean, they're kind of practical almost, mementos, but they have things like that.

BY: Because I was reading the New York Times obituary of Aiko, and it was just beautiful, it was like the last line of the obituary was just kind of this, oh, yeah, by the way, she keeps a strand of barbed wire. I was like, wow.

<End Segment 27> - Copyright © 2020 Densho. All Rights Reserved.