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TI: So was that first trip to Crystal City in March, then, which we're, what, about seven, eight months ago? I'm trying to think.

KN: Yeah.

TI: And so not that long ago. And prior to that, you kind of knew the story but you didn't really dive in and know as much, is that what you're saying? That really kind of ignited your interest? This phone call probably from, I think you're talking about Hiroshi Shimizu, who said, hey, come join us.

KN: They're planning this, and I said, "Okay, I'm really interested." I mean, I knew the story enough, but going there was, I just felt it would be different. There's been many Japanese Peruvian reunions for a number of years.

TI: Have you gone to those?

KN: My family only went to one way back when, when it was here in San Francisco. They've gone back to Peru, to Crystal City, all over the place. They actually stopped doing it about ten years ago. I think people are getting older, people have passed away, so they stopped doing that. But some of the people that are on the committee are part of that group. I wasn't quite involved, those years, my focus was my work. I hardly got involved with the community at all. Then when you're children, they need to go to different sports and things, then I got back involved. But that pilgrimage was really a good turning point for me. Hiroshi Shimizu runs the Tule Lake thing. He goes every other year, does a great job, he's been doing it for a number of years, so he's experienced in all that. That was my first, really, pilgrimage, and like I say, that was really to do with my parents. I just really thought I could get a sense for that, and I did get a sense of what they might have gone through when we went to Dilley, the day after we went to Laredo, which is a border town, and there was a facility there for migrants. This is a facility that takes the migrants in after they were released by the government. And there were a number of families there, mostly all women and their children, hardly any men. But the idea was for us to share our story with them, because it's very similar, and their story with us. The Laredo trip was probably the most impactful for me, simply because all they could speak was Spanish. And there was a translator there, and the stories were just horrific.

TI: This is really interesting. So the three days, the first was a brief visit to Crystal City and the next day in Dilley, Texas, the protest. The third day you visited...

KN: The town of Laredo.

TI: And talked with people who were going through... were these detention centers?

KN: They were released from detention centers. So this is where they could get their life started.

TI: And of those three days, you're saying the third day was the one that really impacted you the most?

KN: Yeah, that visit. And we also crossed the border at one time, and that was an interesting story in itself. But this Laredo trip was the closest I felt that I could feel what my mom, my sisters went through. Just hearing their voices in Spanish, there was an interpreter there. They were saying, oh my god, their story is nothing compared to ours. We were, they were detained for six months to a year, we were there for three and a half years, they don't think there's any comparison. But for them to tell their story in Spanish, I could see my sister in particular, Kiyo is the second oldest now, my oldest sister married right out of camp, so she went to Los Angeles. So my older sister was kind of in charge, and she did a lot. And she only spoke Spanish and Japanese, so her English was this heavy accent, Spanish accent. We always had fun with her because of that. But when I heard the ladies speaking, one lady from Guatemala talked about her four kids, and the oldest was eighteen and her daughter was eighteen, and they took her away. This is now happening today, and she couldn't figure out why, and later they told her, "Well, she's eighteen so she can take care of herself." There's no law that does that. Everything's, they're breaking the law regularly, no different than what they did with us. And when they were telling their story they were breaking down and crying, the interpreter was crying, and it was a moment that I could feel a little bit of what my parents and my sister went through.

TI: And how were you feeling as you heard these stories?

KN: Yeah, I was really torn. That's when I said, oh god, that speaking, hearing the Spanish, you just, right away, I could sense what my sister or my mom went through, because that's all they spoke, or Japanese.

TI: And did you know, kind of, coming away from that, what you were going to do? Because what you've done since then is pretty remarkable. At what point do you say, "Oh, this is what I have to do"?

KN: No, I think it took a while because I just had to absorb all that, just digest all that in. It was after a short period that we already knew at the March pilgrimage that we were going to have a larger one later on in the year. We told the people, "We're coming back," and then that kind of got us going to do the one in November. So that was kind of automatic, so we formed a committee and started the whole thing.

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