Densho Digital Repository
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Satsuki Ina Interview
Narrator: Satsuki Ina
Interviewer: Tom Ikeda
Location: Emeryville, California
Date: March 14, 2019
Densho ID: ddr-densho-1000-474-15

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TI: So the other issue is now how it transfers from generation to generation. So thinking of you and other Sanseis, how does that get translated to your children? Is it physiological, what happens?

SI: Well, from the physiological point of view, there is really fascinating research going on now called Epigenetics, and they're mostly studying rats right now. But they're seeing that rats who were traumatized are passing on genetic markers to the next generation that is a transmission of a traumatic response. So it's not that the DNA is changed, but that there's some signaling that goes on that then makes that next generation more prone to anxiety or distress in the rats. So very controversial at this point, but even if you take... so that's the nature part of the transmission that we're still unsure of.

The nurture part of that transmission, so this is the middle level of understanding is that we know that when somebody experiences trauma, it alters the nervous system. We see this in soldiers that are sent to combat zones, that they have flashbacks, they have hypersensitivity to certain kinds of triggers. So the nervous system, especially if it's a chronic state of trauma, which captivity trauma is, the everyday not knowing what your future or life is going to be like, is a form of chronic trauma. We know that, and they've done this, because we can look at brain scans of people now who have had chronic trauma. If you have a single incident trauma, nervous system doesn't necessarily change. You have one accident maybe in a year, by then, your brain realizes that was a single incident and now you're safe and it can go back to normal function. Chronic state of trauma -- so if the signal in the brain that says you're in danger allows these many experiences to happen, it triggers and fires off this fight, flight, or freeze response. For somebody who has had chronic trauma, it's modified. So there's less incidents or triggers, space-time.

TI: Okay, got it.

SI: Right? So then they're more easily triggered, more often triggered, and so this is a storming of stress hormones which is very bad for your system, which could lead to the somatic things, somatic illnesses that we're talking about. So that's good science, that's pretty consistent, and is a way that a person whose parents have had trauma, there's a good possibility that that person is going to have an anxiety level, a stress response level more readily. So that's one way of thinking about the transmission. And then the third way is purely from a learned perspective, which is, you watch your parents, you hear their messages, you get the message of their silence, so that's, like, very frightening. You get the message of fear, and the lack of safety. And it may not be very overt, but it gets transmitted through facial expression, body language of the parent, sometimes words that the parents share. That gets internalized early on, and this other area of study -- I don't know if it's relevant for this interview -- but they've found that people who have what they call a coherent autobiographical narrative, that is, a consistent life story, and the emotions attached to it, that that individual is more likely to be able to have a healthy, secure attachment with their child. Interesting study, this is the study done at UC Berkeley. That when they compared mothers, the ones that had the insecure attachment to their child were the ones who were more likely to have had trauma and to have also incoherent narrative, their life story, like they were adopted and transferred and all these other things happened, had a difficult time having this really secure attachment with their child, which then creates anxiety for that generation.

So I think about, now, my sons are fourth generation, and although they've been very respectful of my work and interested and attend required events, they have their own passions. And they are creative, artistic young men who have the freedom to take risks, and to do careers that aren't necessarily secure. So I feel like the opportunity for the fourth generation, once us Sanseis start talking more, start putting these pieces together, start integrating our history into our today lives, and the more books that are being written, the more films, the more oral interviews by Densho, that the fourth generation, the next generation, and the generation after that, will have a more integrated story about what happened. Not the distorted narrative that the government gave us that left us kind of empty and unsure, I think the future looks good for the next generation. But we have to provide what we can of the empty spaces of that cobweb. So that's why when people ask me to share, I always try to say yes-yes instead of no-no. [Laughs]

TI: Because your belief is that, by doing so, that it's helping to heal this community.

SI: Absolutely. Because doing those "children of the camps" groups, I saw profound healing. People who... I mean, it seems like, so amazing, but people who were in jobs that were not satisfying to them, but gave them security, several of them stayed in touch with me and went on to do different things. They left their job mid-career to become a writer, a Buddhist minister, to become a teacher instead of a bookkeeper. So, yeah, I think that knowing our history, talking each other, feeling the feelings that go with it is really important.

TI: But there are so few Satsuki Inas that are doing this, and the community is so large and dispersed in so many ways, how do we go forward?

SI: Because I don't think it's up to Satsuki Ina. I think it's that people are now... redress kind of opened the door for us to speak our truths more. My mother said, when she got her check, she said, I asked her what it meant for her, and she said it was the letter of apology, she felt like she got her face back. And in that way, all the stories that are being written now, the films that are being made, all of these ways in which we are passing on the true experience of people, real experience, I think Densho has contributed to this in a great way. So it's not just me, and it's about us beginning to feel like we need to talk about this, and we need to find ways to talk about it. And it might be something as simple as a book club reading one of the books that have just come out. It could be going to Day of Remembrance, these pilgrimages are powerful healings.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2019 Densho. All Rights Reserved.