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TI: So this is a question that I think about. So for people who don't really know the community and the trauma and see the community more superficially, they would look at those things, oh, Japanese Americans are on time, they're responsible...

SI: They're clean. [Laughs]

TI: They're clean, they work hard, they go into these fields.

SI: They're smart.

TI: They're smart. And so they say, wow, so it couldn't have been that bad of a thing, right? Look at all these positive things about the community, kind of that "model minority" myth. So what's your response, though? Because you know, underneath that veneer, there's this trauma that has happened. And people said, well, when the Niseis are all gone, they'll all be gone, but no, it transferred to the next generation.

SI: You know, the way I respond is that outwardly, it looks like we pulled ourselves up by our bootstraps, and the only minority that's been oppressed that's been able to do that. But it's a distortion of the level of anxiety that's underneath that, and the sacrifices that are part of the trauma to choose careers for safety rather than self-expression. And I think that's a huge loss, that rather than manifesting our greatest wishes or our greatest talents or skills, that those had to be conformed to. And maybe that's true for a lot of people no matter what, but I think that what's wrapped around that is this level of anxiety. That somehow if you don't... like when I decided I wanted my actual birth name, Satsuki, instead of being called Sandy, my mother looked me straight in the eye and she said, "Bad things will happen if you do that." So that's what she transmitted to me, was that if you don't create this image and do what you're told... and then I think as a therapist, I have met with enough Sansei clients to know that jobs taken, careers chosen, were at great sacrifice to what they would have loved to have done. And I think of the loss that our community and the rest of the world have suffered because of that. And then the level of anxiety, so lots of anxiety, depression, it's like anxiety and depression are one side or the other of the same mental health issue. And then anxiety often shows up as being driven. And being driven in America is a good thing, is seen as good, high achievers. But there's a great physiological cost to that, and mental cost to that, too.

TI: And so as you're talking, so is it this, by appearance, it looks good on the outside. But underneath that, would you describe it as maybe less joyful?

SI: Right.

TI: Or what are the...

SI: Yeah. I don't know if it's less joyful. Less freedom, it feels more constrained, more... maybe that's what joy is, when you're uncontained and you can express your joy. But there is this level of somberness, and it slides easily into depression. And I've seen a lot of depression in JA clients.

TI: Do you think Japanese Americans have a higher level of depression or percentage of depression?

SI: I haven't seen any statistics on that, but there is research that shows that we're more prone to internalizing and showing up with more somatic disorders because of the anxiety and depression. So I think at one point there were a higher significant rate for Japanese Americans, this included... this may have included (Sanseis, but Niseis) in particular, higher rates of ulcers, stomach cancer, hypertension, disorders like that that are a result of the level of stress the person experiences.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2019 Densho. All Rights Reserved.