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VY: And how about your grandparents on your father's side? When did they come to America?

FN: I'm not sure when my grandfather, my father's father, came to the United States, but it must have been in the very early 1900s.

VY: And do you know why he decided to come to, did he come to Richmond?

FN: He did not come to Richmond, he came to Berkeley, California. And I think that he came here to pursue a better life. I think that his name was Jiro, which means, "second son." And I know that, for him, there was no possibility of owning land in Japan, and so he had to leave the family, and I think that's the reason he came. Before he had come, though, my grandmother on my father's side had passed away. So he left my father with his relatives, and he came on his own to the United States. But I don't know how long my grandfather was here before he sent for my father. See, we didn't talk about those things, I don't really know. And it's not that difficult, I guess I should find out. But, you know, there aren't people to ask now.

VY: I know, that's unfortunate, isn't it?

FN: It is.

VY: Okay, so your father, your grandfather came here on his own, and then what about your grandmother, where was she?

FM: My grandmother on my father's side had died in Japan. And so my father was the only son, and he left him with relatives, with one of his aunts, and my father was left in Japan. My grandfather came to the United States.

VY: Okay, so then what did your grandfather do after he went to Berkeley?

FM: He went to Berkeley and I think he lived in boarding homes with other Japanese families, and I think he did a wide variety of jobs. I know one job he did was, one of his friends from Japan that was from the same prefecture that he was with, had a furniture factory, I know that he worked there, the name was Akagi. And I think that he made a lot of connections through our church, because the Akagi family still is a member of our church. So I have connections with the grandson.

VY: So you still know the grandson?

FM: Yes.

VY: Okay, and then how about after that? What ultimately did your father end up, your grandfather end up doing?

FM: So I think in 1913, he had saved enough money, and then he moved to Richmond to be a part of this partnership. And then in 1917, he took over the whole operation, and he bought out his partners. So in 1917, he established the nursery on his own.

VY: So he bought his partners out?

FM: Right, he bought his partners out.

VY: So it was a hundred percent his nursery.

FM: Right. Well, I'm sure he had to get a mortgage, but I don't know how he did those things in those days, but he had a lot of help from his fellow Japanese in the Richmond, El Cerrito area. Because everybody, I think, tried to help each other out as much as they could.

VY: Were there a lot of other Japanese American nursery families in that area?

FM: There were, and they were all in the same business, they all had greenhouses, they had small plots of land, and they were somewhat rural. They did have a lot of help from each other, so I think that helped him a lot.

VY: Did they all grow the same kinds of flowers?

FM: No, there were a variety of flowers. And also, since it's expensive to construct greenhouses, in the spring and summer months, they would also have outdoor crops, so they did a variety of things. But my grandfather was always interested in growing roses, so that was what he specialized in. And so there were, I don't know exactly how many total nurseries there were, but at the start of World War II, there were twenty families in the Richmond, El Cerrito area.

VY: Wow, okay, that's a lot.

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