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TI: One of the things, and you mentioned earlier that I wanted to follow up, so momentum, commission hearings, things are moving, the meeting with the White House. And then in 1986, before the redress bill passes, you take a break, you leave the JACL. What happened? Why did you leave the JACL?

JT: Because there was so much internal conflict, a lot of infighting. I was the target, and I knew that. It was the JACL and the LAC, and you know only certain people in the LAC, because a lot of the old guard who were part of the effort on that side, like Shig Wakamatsu out of Chicago, Grace Uyehara out of Philadelphia, they never saw themselves other than JACLers, but there was this other element -- it was the leadership of what was happening on that side, which was focus everything on pushing the money issue, or pushing the compensation bill. I never believed we should ever stop worrying about education. To me, that was the one thing that would change what happens in the future, is by Americans understanding of what happened to us and why it was so wrong. Yeah, the compensation bill was important, there's no question about that. But the conflict became so intense, I told Ikejiri that I am the focus of -- or I'm sorry, I told Wakabayashi, who was my boss, that, "I'm the focus of this, and if I leave, maybe they'll get off your back, and you'll be able to have some peace in your life with this campaign." So I resigned.

TI: Wouldn't that be hard to do? You had come so far from the very beginning. I mean, I think that we had talked about in the other interview, your connection with Edison Uno and Cliff and being there and getting to this point, and then to have to resign like this. That must have been a very difficult time.

JT: It was hard, but I talked to Clifford about it after the fact, and Clifford was really philosophical and he says, "You know, it's good for change." I mean, change is always good for whatever happens, that people have different perspectives. And he said to me... I don't think I've ever written this down anywhere or told anyone. He said to me, "You will never be forgotten, because what you did was so important, and what you did is why we have what we have. Without you, this never would have happened." And he said he remembers Dan Inouye telling me, "If you succeed getting this done," that is, educating the public, "you will change American history. There will be a point where this matters." And Clifford said, "So it's okay. You may feel like shit now, but it's all right." I mean, in the bigger picture, he was right. Change is good. And I understood that, plus, I was really tired. I'd been at this for ten years, and I'd given up my career as a teacher. Hey, I'd blown a twelve-year tenure. And so my life needed to go in a different direction. And so I left the JACL and I found out later that there was kind of a hit list. Get rid of certain people and then we control everything, and my name was on that list. And it didn't surprise me, I knew that, I was a target. And so I left, but the thing, too, is I had so many connections in Washington that I went out working as a consultant. First calls I get were, they want me to work on a bill, can you go to Washington? Of course I can go to Washington, that's what I know to do, that's my mind. So I went back to Washington and I worked with clients now instead of the JACL. But the condition I always had is if I go to Washington and work on this for you, I need an extra day, just to make sure things are tidy, that what I do, it doesn't slip. Well, that wasn't quite true. I wanted that day to be able to go to the hill and work the bill. I never told anyone I was doing that. I would, every now and then, run into Grace, and I'd tell her, "Oh, yeah, I have a client who wants certain regs done." And so that's kind of how I stayed with the campaign.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2019 Densho. All Rights Reserved.