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NW: So I'm curious, since you had left Tule Lake, there were other students who had moved to Syracuse from other camps. Was that something that you would talk about, either with each other or with other people?

MW: Not really. That's kind of interesting, we never... I never asked them, they never asked me, we just kind of went on with our lives, I think. I did go make some talks to different church groups. I don't know that the others did, but we had this minister who was very, he was Baptist and very into helping people. And so he encouraged Frank and me to go and speak at groups, so we did do that.

NW: And Frank is your husband?

MW: Yeah, future husband.

NW: Eventual husband.

MW: When I was in clinical nursing, I'd be in a hospital, I always tell this story about how they were kind of curious, because they'd never seen a Japanese face before. And you're in area where there were many natives, but there were no, so many Asian faces. So very innocently, I mean, just not curiously, they would ask me, "What are you?" So I said, "What do you think I am?" Because I wanted them to think, what are they asking? And so they would say everything from Chinese to Hawaiian to Native. So I said, "No, I'm an American just like you." Because I wanted them to think what they're saying. What are they asking? Even though I may look differently, I'm an American. Then it gives me a chance to say something about that. But I didn't want to be belligerent, I just wanted them to, say, think about what you're saying.

NW: Open your mind a little bit.

MW: Yeah. Hopefully that started something.

NW: And do you feel that people were, it was sort of curiosity more than anything else?

MW: Yeah, I didn't just, "Oh, why are you asking?" kind of thing. I felt like you just are not knowledgeable about this, you haven't thought about it. This is a new experience for you, but I want you to open your mind and think about it. Think about, what are you saying? And hopefully open something in their thinking. I think it's so important that we don't just ruffle our feathers and only bring a reaction of a negative on themselves. But if we can have a chance to talk, to think together, and I think ultimately, I think that's what I've tried to do. It's not always easy to do, but to be open so that, I think in our lives, that's what we need, to be able to understand better, each other.

NW: It seems like especially at this point in time, too, that would be an important conversation.

MW: As I think back, I think maybe that's the reason I've done the things I've done in the future.

NW: Well, so let's talk a little bit, so you had mentioned Frank. Who was Frank?

MW: Frank was a student at Syracuse, and he later went into advertising, but then he went to graduate school after we were married. He went into the service, he was at Fort Snelling, and he went to Japan. Then when he came back, he had the GI Bill, we were married and we went to Yale. And he actually got his degree in divinity and wasn't really, he did give some sermons because he had to for part of his work. And then where we lived later, Pittsburgh, much later, he actually went into student work, student movement like the Y. So his training was more for working with students. So we moved around a lot.

NW: Well, so before we get into that, how did you two meet?

MW: [Laughs] Oh, that's kind of crazy. But the person who was the house resident where I lived kept telling me, "Oh, there is this Nisei who's very active and he works in the," like the center of campus where you have all the activities like student activities. And so I heard about it, so, "Oh, you have to meet him." So finally, it must have been a year, maybe, or so, later, there was some activity, kind of a campus thing. So she said, "Oh, you must go," so I met him. So what? [Laughs] But as I said, we went to make speeches together and that kind of thing.

NW: So what kind of speeches would you give?

MW: Well, as I said, churches, mainly, to tell them about our experiences.

NW: Of being in the camps?

MW: Right. Telling them and trying to have them realize that we're the same as you are.

NW: And so was this while the war was still going on? This is while you were going to school at Syracuse?

MW: Yeah, because he went into the service after that. How long did the war go on?

NW: It ended August of 1945. I think you had left Tule Lake in 1943.

MW: So why did he go to Fort Snelling afterward?

NW: He may have been part of the occupation. There was work still after the war.

MW: That's so funny, language school, he can hardly manage. I don't know how he ever... married '47.

NW: Well, here, let's not worry too much about the dates here, but I am curious about these talks that you would give. So how did you come to be involved in that? Is that something that you volunteered to do?

MW: As I said, this minister encouraged me to, encouraged us to go. And I don't remember that we went to other than church groups.

NW: And who were the people in these congregations? Were they people who were, like did they know what was happening?

MW: I don't know, I just told them what I had to say. [Laughs] They were probably Baptist churches. Because at that time, Reverend Hayes was Baptist, I guess, and so was Frank.

NW: And so I guess I'm curious to get a sense of what people's reaction to this was.

MW: It was no great big deal, you know, I mean, I'm going to school, maybe on Sunday if I'm off and available, I wasn't a crusader.

NW: But you're still sharing your story and kind of spreading awareness.

MW: I wasn't a, really activist or anything like so many of the people who are West Coast and East Coast, and I'm in the Midwest.

NW: But you do your part.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2018 Densho. All Rights Reserved.