<Begin Segment 11>

BN: Now, when did the JACL thing come up?

AN: I left UCLA to do this study thing in Japan, and then we were in Japan for nine months.

BN: What was that?

AN: This was the Japanese Ministry of Education and Japan Air Lines had some kind of program, they were studying at Sophia University. And so we used to use this as an excuse to travel to Japan. I got in fights with faculty at Sophia my first couple months, because this was white people talking about Japanese culture. Anyway, then I wrote a couple articles that they didn't like, because one was kind of talking about racism in Japan, and I said that both the U.S. and Japan are racist societies where there's institutional racism, but I'm more confident that the U.S. will deal with racism better because at least there's a basis for racism in the U.S., the people look different. But in Japan, you have to really work hard to be a racist, because you have to... because many Koreans, Chinese, they take on Japanese surnames, they speak the language, they were born there. So you have to kind of look at what schools they went to, the occupations, so there's more subtle forms, more insidious forms of racism. So I wrote that and then I wrote another on pollution and misplaced priorities of Japanese progress and development. They threatened to pull the program after I finished with my experience there. So we were in Japan, I was studying Japanese, which I was horrible at doing that.

But actually, the plan was... because Yvonne joined me and then we were expecting our first child, Angela. So this is very romanticized, but our plans were to go to China and have Angela in China. And so that was kind of the plan, but then Yvonne was approved to go to China and I was not. So then we wanted to have the baby together, so then we had to decide, so we came back to the U.S. and had Angela here. And then while I was here, then we came back, I had Angela, where there were some complications, but we had no insurance, we were not employed. So Bob Suzuki offered me a job at the University of Massachusetts, we were working in Pasadena at an alternative school. And then while I was there, that's when there was a JACL position opened up. It was not something that I was interested in, but with Warren and some of the other JACL activists, we felt this was an opportunity to really make a change. Because the JACL at that time was, members were there for the travel program, for the insurance, and social things, but it was not really a serious civil rights organization. And so many of us saw this as an opportunity to change the direction of the JACL, and so we kind of began meeting and thought that this would be a chance to kind of do that. I believed in it, but I was less enthusiastic about the prospects of working for JACL, but I agreed that I was probably the best, quote, "qualified." I had administrative experience at UCLA, and so we went along and we had meetings.

And I don't know if you know the stories, but basically, this was to take the place of Mas Satow, who had been the only national director of the JACL we ever had. And as it got closer to the deadline, I was the only applicant. And so the old guard, especially Mike Masaoka, was very concerned about me and what I represented. So he had convinced, I think a distant relative, David Ushio, to apply at the last minute. David was actually part of this group that were strategizing on what to do with the JACL, so he was part of those discussions. So David applied, so it was David and I, and then I knew pretty much that the fix was in. Because David would not have applied for the job, because he was the Washington, D.C., rep for the organization. He would not have applied for the job unless he was assured of something, because he would know that if you find out someone you're working with strategizing at the last minute applies for the job, if I got the job, he would be history. And that's kind of what happened, is that Mike and his cronies decided what we represented was too much of a threat to where they wanted to take the JACL and kind of that senior leadership that is not part of the formal governance, but still ran the organization. Kind of fixed things so that that would happen.

And so that's what happened, is that I was interviewed in the personnel committee, we provided a platform, I was pretty upfront. So this wasn't a takeover, I mean, I provided a platform and a vision. So it was kind of saying that we saw JACL as a leading civil rights organization that we wanted to model it more, like at that time, the Urban League, which was much more advocacy and issue oriented and get the membership behind developing an agenda. And then the staff would be primarily responsible for helping me implement that agenda. And we saw the Pacific Citizen becoming a national Asian American media piece, not just an organ for the JACL. So we had this whole plan in mind. And it was basically, they were threatened by... because this wasn't a hidden thing, we just presented a platform. We said we wanted JACL to maintain, but to be the impetus for creating a broader Asian American civil rights organization of which JACL would help found, but we're not transforming the JACL into an Asian American... but to be the foundation to really get that going. And so we just had a different picture of where we wanted the JACL to go.

BN: And when you're saying "we," you're working with...

AN: Some of the staff and some of the other activists in JACL.

BN: But they had gone, they had hired people like Warren?

AN: Yeah, Warren, Ron Wakabayashi, Jeff Matsui. So that was primarily the folks that were involved. And I've told people later, but I was relieved when I didn't get the job because it was, one, having to move up to San Francisco, and my dad had died and my mom was pretty much dependent on me. But also I just felt -- and I can laugh about it now -- but I would have had run-ins with the JACL staff, with Warren, because they were just pretty much doing their own thing. And I would have required, okay, what are you going to be accomplishing for this period, and kind of saying, "Okay, give me updates on what you're doing to accomplish this." But they were just used to kind of organizing and doing things on the fly. And I said, "Not acceptable." I had enough training to say that we needed to, one, present a platform to the membership, and saying, "We want you to give us input as to what you think the priorities are, and we're going to implement those priorities." And if we as staff don't like it, then we've got to leave. But membership needs to kind of determine... but it was going to be along civil rights, or creating the media thing for the Pacific Citizen, all those pieces were kind of what they had in mind. And it was a dramatically different view of the JACL. And it was, in many ways, kind of what I said. The JACL members, it's tied to insurance and travel programs and those are changing. And the future of the JACL is to be able to attract new generations of people and need to kind of move beyond this Nisei, white collar mentality to become a broader organization, but have the network to be able to do that, etcetera, but it was way before its time. That's when the few people like the Mike Masaokas, others, were still running the organization, and that was fairly evident in terms of what was going on. So I was personally not upset at all at not getting the job. Because I was enjoying my work with the alternative school, and so that was not disappointing. But I felt obligated that this was a real chance to kind of change things, but at the same time very concerned. It would have strained my relationships with a lot of folks when they saw this side of me that is not just letting people do their thing.

BN: Right. That's funny, because you'd imagine, you'd say you'd have clashed with the old guard.

AN: And be clashing with...

BN: Which you probably would have, but also with the new guard, too.

AN: And also I just thought that my days would be numbered. I think the ability to survive was primarily a Nisei leadership. I think of myself as relatively competent and able to incorporate different things, but I realized that they would... and this was coming off the UCLA experience. They wouldn't be taking me seriously, so I'd have to be at the table and pushing things. So that's what I learned from the UCLA experience, is I don't want to be in situations where I'm not taken seriously. So I knew I was going to clash, and so I wasn't looking forward to the prospects of moving up to San Francisco, reconnecting up there, and having to leave the job after a few months because of clashes or whatever.

BN: Right around that time, Edison Uno was starting to talk about redress. Did you know Edison?

AN: Yes, I knew Edison. Redress at that time --

BN: It was very early.

AN: Yeah, it was not high up on my radar, because they were doing the Title I campaign, and it was stuff that I said, "Yeah, that's important stuff," but mine was... this was in the midst of all the civil rights and things going on. So I saw it as an important thing, but not something that I wanted to devote myself to. I wanted to devote myself to being part of a broader civil rights agenda. And bringing Asian Americans and Japanese Americans to the table to be connecting with African Americans and Latinos. And the Latino community was in a similar situation of not having the infrastructure that the African American community had and the civil rights community, but being able to kind of develop those kind of voices. But I knew Edison, and I knew some of the work that was going on there, but just was not engaged in that.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2018 Densho. All Rights Reserved.