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VY: Okay, so let's talk about the day of Pearl Harbor. Do you remember where you were on December 7, 1941, and how you heard about the bombing?

MK: Well, we didn't have a radio, we never owned a radio. So I guess our neighbors informed us about it. And I don't remember too much beyond that except that it was a frightening period. We were very careful going about. And I remember when I got to school one day, one of my classmates, I didn't know her too well, but she stood up in our English class and she says, "All the Japs should be sent back to Japan." And I didn't know why she took off like that, but then years later -- in fact, it was after I came to Seattle, that's how many years later -- I was thinking about that and I thought, "Oh, she was protecting her back." And I said, "Oh, I bet," because her name was Barbara Kaiser, and it made sense. But the poor teacher, I really felt sorry for her because she was an elderly white haired English teacher, and she didn't really know how to handle it. And she just paced back and forth, back and forth in front of the class.

VY: So it sounds like she didn't really respond, she just didn't know how to respond, the teacher?

MK: Yeah, she didn't respond. And it was pretty much the end of the class period, too.

VY: How about your other classmates? How did they respond, or did they?

MK: I didn't have any other Japanese American classmates in that particular class. But no one said anything about their experience.

VY: So how did that feel at the time, then? Did it make you feel kind of alone?

MK: Yes, very much. And I thought, oh, they really hate us, was my feeling.

VY: Did you ever tell anybody about that?

MK: No, I just kept it to myself.

VY: Do you remember any other experiences that you had right during that time?

MK: Yes. One evening, it was early evening, I guess I must have gone downtown. Anyway, it was on the way home and I was just practically home, across the street, in fact, when I saw a very attractive older woman coming toward me. And before I knew it, before I was able to cross the street, she was right there in front of me. She grabbed both my shoulders and bent her head down to mine and she says, "Are you Japanese or Chinese?" And I was very scared. I thought I was going to be beaten up or something. So I just looked up at her and I said, "I'm Japanese." And she said, "No, you're not. You're American, and don't you ever forget it." And she just abruptly released me and walked on. And I was panicked to be told outright that I was an American, because during that period, even before the war, whenever we had to answer a simple survey, we were either Chinese, Japanese, or Korean, nothing else. And so as I ran home, I thought, "I can't be American because I'm not white." But then, at the same time, I realized I was an American citizen by birthright, that's the way I thought about it, but not outright American.

VY: So was that the first time you thought of it that way?

MK: Yes. And even then, I didn't tell my friends about that experience either.

VY: Why do you think she did that?

MK: Well, I don't know, and I had no clue who she was until I became a teacher. Then I thought, "I bet she was a teacher." That's the only way I could think about it.

VY: That's interesting. That makes me wonder, because I know you became a teacher later, do you remember, were there any teachers that stood out more than others while you were going to school? A teacher in particular that made an impression?

MK: Who taught me?

VY: Yeah.

MK: Let's see. Well, at the university, there was a Professor McKinnon, and he was a Japanese expert, and I was very impressed by all the knowledge he had about Japan and what he taught us. Oh, I can't think of any other... well, my Japanese language teacher was a Japanese American herself. And I was just impressed that we had Japanese American professors. Because I remember, way before the war, when I was still in grade school, I used to hear about these older... I was in grade school, so anyone that was in high school was so old. But these were high school graduates ready to go on to college, that was the first time I heard about our Japanese American people going to college. And I knew that was for further study, but other than that, I didn't know. And I used to hear the word "Los Angeles," so that must have been UCLA.

VY: Did you think you would go to college at that point?

MK: No, not even when I graduated high school. I was not college bound at all. But it was after my work experience in different types of office work that I finally got tired of being a secretary, so I just thought I'd try. This was after the war when we settled in Seattle.

VY: Okay, we'll save that for later, then. Yeah, I want to hear all about that.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2018 Densho. All Rights Reserved.