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TI: Well, that's another question. So when I think about that postwar University of Washington, SYNKOA, you had Japanese Americans who were World War II vets there, and so they were older, more experienced, had just, some of them had fought in Europe, might have been in the MIS, and here you were younger. Talk about that dynamic. What did you see or learn from these older students?

FS: You know, I just respected them. Those guys all were really my heroes, my brother Bob, my brother John, Sam Mitsui, these guys who went through all this, and that's all I can say, Tom, I just really didn't have much reaction other than that.

TI: Today when you talk about veterans, especially those who have combat experience, a term that comes up a lot is Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome, PTSD, and that was never talked about during World War II or anything like that. But in retrospect, when you think back in terms of the Niseis who came back from the 442 and fighting, do you think there was PTSD? I mean, you would know this from your VA experience, too, about PTSD. I'm just curious, when you think back to those guys coming back... and when I talk to them and read about what they did, I mean, the fighting that they were in was incredibly intense, and I'm just wondering if that affected them.

FS: You know, I think there was a tremendous effect there. And let me give you an example. When Eric Saul was here recently and he talked about Dachau and the trauma that our infantry group suffered from that experience, see, that's on the combat side. But let me tell you a different part of that on the MIS side. My brother John was part of the survey team for the government following Nagasaki and Hiroshima bombing. And he went through that rubble, and during that time, he ran across a lady who was our Japanese school teacher right out here in Sumner, Washington, as a kid. He saw that devastation and he never went back to Japan. I've been to Japan many times on business and pleasure. John never would go back, and I think it was part of that trauma that he suffered, even to the day he died.

TI: And why do you think he didn't go back? You said "trauma," I'm trying to get a sense of, was it a sense of guilt in terms of what the United States did with the bomb, or was it, it was just too painful for him to see? What do you think that might have been?

FS: You know, he saw that devastation. He's only mentioned that once or twice to me, but he said you couldn't imagine how bad it was. It was just leveled. And I think it was just the horror of that war period that just was really hard on him. He never talked too much about it. His son was trying to get him to go back to Japan on a trip, they even scheduled one once, and they canceled. He never went. He never said why, but I guessed what it was. He just didn't want to see that again.

TI: How about any other examples of what you would call stress from the war? Can you think of anything else that you saw, maybe not your brothers, but other vets that you came across after the war?

FS: No, I can't tell you about anything specific like that. But, Tom, as you know, I served in the VA for almost seven years, and PTSD was a very prominent issue. And I saw different aspects of that, but the one thing that always has bothered me... June and I went to Europe with Bob and Lucy, and Bob retraced his steps in Europe. And we found places that he was in battle, and we were in Cassino and various places along the way. And the one thing that always has bothered me is why did the government send our 442/100th groups in battle after battle, suffering the casualties? I think there had to be some PTSD involved in there with the kinds of experiences our guys had. I just feel so questioning about why our guys were sent into battle so often, right back after another. Why did we have to suffer all those casualties? I don't know.

TI: Yeah, it's interesting, because you've heard the same things. There's one side that says they were like cannon fodder, right, they were expendable. And then you hear the argument that they were the best fighters, and so they were like the tip of the spear, they always wanted them there because they were the ones who could lead the charge. And there's probably some truth to both sides, I think.

FS: Well, I think so, and I think that, you know, knowing these guys, they were the best at what they were doing. That's no question. But how often should you be sending them back to battle again like that, over and over again?

TI: Yeah, there's a clip, and I know you know him so I'll mention this. There's an interview clip that we have of Sparky Matsunaga. And during the war he was an officer, and so he got to see things more close up in terms of the leadership. And that was an issue early on with the 100th in terms of why were they always pushed forward, they were always fighting. And he happened to be at a meeting where General Clark, Mark C. Clark, was there, and the commanding officer actually brought that issue up, saying, "So why is it that we're always, are we cannon fodder? Are we using these men as cannon fodder?" And according to Sparky, he said the general was shocked that that was brought up, he says, "Oh, no." He said that it's because the 100th was the best fighters, and that he needed them to do the most dangerous ones because he knew that he could trust them. And so Sparky told the story, and so he said within two weeks later, before the 100th went into combat, generally the commanding officer is there to send them off. And he said that Mark, General Mark C. Clark was there also. And he said that was very moving to the men because you would never see the commanding general come down there, but he just wanted to show the troops how much respect... so that was a powerful story. I know you know Sparky and the type of man he is, so that was part of the story.

FS: Well, I got to know Sparky fairly well, and he was very insightful, and he's probably right. A related issue, my brother Bob always had the highest respect for General Mark Clark. There's a bridge there in Italy that General Mark Clark met a bunch of the guys, and I know Bob pointed out, and he always spoke very fondly of General Clark. He had the highest respect of the troops, I think. And so I don't know, it was probably for the reasons you say. They respected the 442/100th as being probably the best fighting unit. And kind of an interesting side, one of the pictures I left with you when I presented the Go For Broke book to Congressman Jim Wright, and I pointed out to him the Dachau, and the other part was regarding the Rescue of the Lost Battalion. Let me tell you, just looking at his face, he was just so visibly moved. But I think they all had the highest respect for the 100th/442. And people like Congressman Jim Wright, Congressman Jack Brooks, who I got to know quite well in my job and so forth, and I also presented that Go For Broke book. Let me tell you, those folks really appreciated the 100th/442. They knew about the Nisei vets.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2017 Densho. All Rights Reserved.