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TI: Any other memories before the war, before we move to the war? Can you think of anything else that...

FD: Oh, lots of memories.

TI: What are some, like, highlights that come to mind?

FD: Highlights? Oh, we used to go to Los Angeles every summer to visit a certain family, and that was because, well, at the time, I was aware of it, but I learned later, when I was a little bit older, that it was because they had allowed an Issei couple to adopt one of my sisters. And it was, well, while my father was attending the seminary, my mother worked at the Japanese orphanage that was called the Shonien. So while she was working at the Shonien, well, she used to take me to work and leave me among the orphans so that the administration didn't know that she was taking her own child to be cared for by the other workers. But when my brother was born, she had two little kids and she couldn't hide both of them, so she asked the couple who had served us, the baishakunin, that is, the go-betweens for her marriage, to take care of me. And then after taking care of me for a couple of years, he wanted to adopt me, but then my parents said, "No, you can't have our firstborn child, heaven forbid that we should give her up." And then he said, "Well, maybe the next one if it's a girl," but then the next one happened to be a boy. "We're not going to let this boy be given away." And so they said, "Well, we'll see. Maybe we'll have a girl next time." And so the third one happened to be a girl, and that was Grace, and so they allowed this couple, the baishakunin, to adopt her. And then that made them happy, I guess.

TI: And they lived in Los Angeles?

FD: So the baishakunin lived in Los Angeles. So I figured that we were going to Los Angeles every year to visit the daughter that they had given away, and my siblings didn't know that she had been our real sister, they thought that she was a cousin. But I... when I was in the fourth grade, we learned about relationships within families and why some people were aunts and uncles and others were cousins and so on. So I asked my mother, "Why is it that Keiko is our cousin? Is it because her parents, one of her parents is your sibling or our father's sibling or what?" And she wouldn't answer me. And I kept pestering her about that from time to time, and finally she broke down and said, "Well, if you promise never to tell another soul, I'll explain it to you." So she told me that they had allowed Keiko to be adopted by this other family. So I never told anybody until, oh, way into middle age. And then...

TI: Now, did Keiko know this growing up, that she was adopted?

FD: No, she didn't know. And when we were older, I don't know how old but maybe in our thirties or forties, she remarked to me that, "Everybody seemed to know that I was adopted except me," and she was quite upset over that.

TI: I would imagine it would be sort of shocking to find out much later.

FD: Yeah. Oh, and then how she found out is that the Ochiais went to Japan in the spring of 1941, and they were planning to come back. They had reservations on a ship to come back in August, but then by that time, relations between the U.S. and Japan were getting grim. And it turned out that I think that their reservations were on the last passenger ship to come to the United States. But anyhow, their place, their tickets or whatever, their place was taken over by people who were richer, I guess a lot of money changed hands to buy the passage back to the U.S. And they weren't able to come back. And so they spent the war years in Japan. And so my adopted sister, well, of course, went with her adoptive parents and then after the war, my mother's youngest brother, who's only six years older than me, was drafted into the army.

TI: This is the Japanese army or the U.S.

FD: No, U.S. Army.

TI: Okay, so he was in the United States, okay.

FD: And he went to the MIS school and learned Japanese, and he was sent to Tokyo. And so my parents asked him if he could arrange to get my sister and her adoptive parents back to the U.S., and so he managed to arrange for Keiko to come back, but he said that getting her... oh, and while they were in Japan, their adoptive father had died because he had diabetes and couldn't get insulin. But he said that because her adoptive mother was a Japanese alien, it was more difficult to get passage for her. So he said that he'll keep working on it, but he sent Keiko back to our family. Of course, she had to come to join our family because there was nobody else to go to. And at that time, she said that her mother told her that she was really an adopted child and not a natural child.

TI: And that she was going to go back to her natural...

FD: Yeah, she was going to back to her natural parents.

TI: And how old was she at this point?

FD: She was about fifteen, fifteen or sixteen. And so later on she complained to me that everybody seemed to know that she was adopted except herself.

TI: But at that point it was really your parents and maybe you and a few others? So it wasn't really that well-known?

FD: Well, I don't know. I don't know who knew. It sounded to me like maybe the Issei community knew.

TI: Yeah, that's what I was wondering, if they probably knew. Because the baishakunin was probably, maybe because of their position, was probably well-known, and they may have tried to get other children in the past.

FD: Yeah, maybe.

TI: That made sense. Wow, what a story. And so when she came, Keiko came back as about a fifteen year old after the war...

FD: She was bitter and angry and very difficult to deal with, according to my mother. And I was away at school, so I didn't get to witness her return.

TI: But then probably the one who maybe dealt with it most was your youngest sister Ruth?

FD: Yes.

TI: So she probably, 'cause she would have been younger than Keiko.

FD: Uh-huh. And then, well, she wasn't too happy about Keiko coming because Keiko thought that according to the Japanese customs, the elder child gets to boss the younger ones around. Well, Ruthie was the darling little baby of the family and she wasn't about to be bossed around by this interloper.

TI: Wow, so it really complicated the family situation. That's interesting. Tell me a little bit about your mother. What was she like? I'm curious, as all this was happening, just her personality, how did she handle these difficult issues?

FD: She was... well, how do you describe her? Well, she was very vivacious and talkative, good humored, but also short tempered, too. Well, she was nice, I guess, in her way.

TI: And how would you describe your father? What was his personality like?

FD: Oh, he was quiet and dignified, and he had a nice sense of humor, but never loud. Just calm, I used to think.

TI: Now, in his position, I'm wondering, yeah, I'm not quite sure how it is to be a minister. Did he have very many, like, close friends that would come over and he would just sort of hang out with and do things with?

FD: Well, I wasn't aware of it.

TI: I'm thinking that oftentimes, when I talk to other minister families, not necessarily isolated, but they aren't able to get really close to very many other people because they wanted, they're kind of spread out in terms of what they did.

FD: And then they don't want to play favorites either.

TI: Right.

FD: But there were some families that seemed to be closer than others. We used to exchange visits with certain families.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2016 Densho. All Rights Reserved.