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TI: So you were just then talking about, you then got married and were looking for a part-time job, and so I think that led to your next job with Wayne Collins.

FD: Uh-huh.

TI: So talk about how that happened.

FD: Well, he wanted a part-time secretary, because, well, going back a little bit, one of my girlfriends from UCLA had moved to San Francisco and wanted a job, a part-time job, because she was also married. And so I suggested that, well, I knew that Wayne Collins was looking for a secretary, so I recommended her to Mr. Collins. And told him that she's a close friend of mine, and I don't know how her work habits are or anything about her skills, but I do know that she's a good friend of mine and I like her very much. And he hired her, and then after she got married and moved over to the East Bay, she quit the job. And then I thought, "Oh, how convenient, I would like that job." And so I asked Collins if he would hire me, and he said, "Sure." And so I left Besig and went over to Collins' office.

TI: And to be his kind of personal secretary?

FD: Well, he had another secretary, Chiyo Wada, who was very fluent in Japanese. And he was handling the cases of renunciants, people who had renounced their citizenship under duress during World War II. And a lot of them were Japanese speakers, some of them had been raised or educated in Japan, and their first language is Japanese. And Chiyo Wada was very fluent in Japanese, and she was able to read and write Japanese, too, so correspondence with them was easier with her working in the office. And well, she's Yoi Wada's wife, you've heard of him probably. And they had four kids, and she said that she was so tired of being a mother that she welcomed being able to work outside the home while her kids were in school.

TI: Well, and her Japanese language, I guess, in terms of taking affidavits and things like that, or testimonies for affidavits, she was really valuable for the Japanese language.

FD: Yes.

TI: So going back earlier, you talked about Ernest Besig, how your shorthand wasn't very good.

FD: Oh, it was terrible. So he bought transcription equipment.

TI: Right. Now, with Wayne Collins...

FD: Well, he said he wanted nothing to do with "newfangled contraptions." [Laughs]

TI: So how did you handle things like shorthand? I mean, when he wanted to have you dictate a letter?

FD: Well, so I listened closely and discovered his style of speech, or rather learned what it was, and so I started writing up rough drafts for him. So that way I avoided an awful lot of shorthand and transcription.

TI: So in other words, you would create the letters, the documents, without having him having to tell you what to do, you could actually look at a case and know that this is kind of what needs to be written?

FD: Uh-huh. Based on what he had done previously.

TI: So you became more like a legal assistant almost in terms of creating these documents.

FD: Yes, uh-huh.

TI: And so how was that for him? Did he like that or did he...

FD: He didn't complain. [Laughs]

TI: Because it made his life easier.

FD: Yeah, uh-huh. And then it was only a few years later that, after I had quit, I was told that... well, he had an assistant lawyer in his office. I was told that this assistant lawyer was doing the work that I used to do, and then I started thinking, "Oh, I missed the boat, I should have asked for more money." [Laughs]

TI: To be actually paid at that level. Going back to Wayne Collins and what he was doing, handling the renunciant cases, there were literally thousands of these.

FD: Well, he had almost five thousand.

TI: Five thousand. And so the volume was huge.

FD: Uh-huh.

TI: It took him decades to get through this.

FD: Yes, it did, more than twenty years, something like almost twenty-four or twenty-five, something like that.

TI: And each case had to be done on an individual basis.

FD: Yes.

TI: And as you go through this, did certain patterns sort of come up so that you kind of knew what needed to be kind of emphasized in these letters of affidavit so that you would have a stronger case against the government.

FD: Uh-huh.

TI: Can you describe what some of those things might be? What were you looking for?

FD: I don't remember. And besides, I don't think I should tell you even if I did remember.

TI: Okay, because that would be kind of client confidentiality?

FD: Uh-huh.

TI: But I'm just thinking, how, I mean, the volume was just incredible. And my understanding was that he wasn't really being paid that much to do these.

FD: No. And I think they were charging something like three hundred dollars per person to do it, something like that. And in some cases, he didn't get paid, but he went ahead and included those people in his mass suit anyhow.

TI: Now was what he was doing when you were there, was that somewhat controversial within the community, that he was helping renunciants? Because during the war, there was friction with other community members in terms of the decision to maybe answer "no-no" on the "loyalty questionnaire," and then go to Japan. So was there any controversy within the community in terms of this work?

FD: Well, if there was, I wasn't aware of it.

TI: When you told people what you were doing, did people ever...

FD: I didn't tell them what I was doing.

TI: And why was that?

FD: Huh? Because it was none of their business. That is, I wasn't going to say that a fellow by this name or that came to the office for this problem or that problem. That is, well, it didn't need any explanation, that is, when you work for somebody, you don't go around telling others what the employer is doing or saying.

TI: Or did it come up because of who you worked for, whether it's an Ernest Besig or Wayne Collins, I guess, how well-known were they in the Japanese American community?

FD: I don't know how well-known they were.

TI: Yeah, maybe as more of a historian, I'm really familiar with those names of what these men did. I guess maybe the question I'm asking is, how well did the community know about the work of these men?

FD: Sorry, I just don't know.

TI: Okay. And did you have a sense of, sort of, the importance of their work when you kind of were working with them? I mean, if you were able to take a step back and think almost from a historical perspective, what these men were doing?

FD: Yes, yes. Well, that's one of the reasons why I was willing to work for peanuts, because I thought that it was for a good cause.

TI: Any other kind of stories about working with Wayne Collins before we move on? Anything else you can think of?

FD: No.

TI: And in general, how would you just describe working for him? How was he as an employer?

FD: Well, at first he was intimidating, but then once you get past that, he turned out to be a very kind and humorous friend.

TI: Okay, good. So after a couple years, you left because I guess your husband's business was expanding or he was doing something?

FD: Yeah, well, he established a Japanese restaurant with a group of his friends, and they needed clerical help.

TI: So you went over there to go help them with that, do that. So can you tell me your husband's name?

FD: Frank Hideo Dobashi.

TI: Okay. And did you have any children?

FD: One.

TI: And the name of your child?

FD: John. And incidentally, I divorced my husband.

TI: And when did you divorce your husband?

FD: Let's see, I've forgotten now. Around 1980 or thereabouts.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2016 Densho. All Rights Reserved.