<Begin Segment 1>

TI: Okay, so Tak, the way I start this is I always talk about where we are and the date. So today is June 9, 2015. We're at the Densho office in Seattle, and in the room on camera is Dana Hoshide, and I'm the interviewer, Tom Ikeda, and we have Takeko Todo this morning. And is it okay if I call you Tak?

TT: Yah.

TI: I always think of you as Tak. So, Tak, I'm going to start with a basic question. So can you tell me when you were born?

TT: April the 3rd, 1927.

TI: So that makes you eighty...

TT: Eight.

TI: ...eight years old. You just turned eighty-eight last month, or a month or so ago, two months ago.

TT: And your mother just turned. She just had her eighty-eighth birthday.

TI: Yeah, my mom did, and dad, both of them did. You're all that same class. And tell me where you were born.

TT: I was born in Seattle, Washington, by a midwife, right on 921 Lane Street.

TI: Oh, so do you know who the midwife was?

TT: No. Well, it's on the birth certificate. I think there was only midwife around that time, and she was doing everybody's.

TI: And what was the full name given to you at birth?

TT: Takeko Yokoyama.

TI: Let's kind of talk a little bit about your siblings. So starting from the oldest, why don't you talk about your sisters, going down.

TT: Okay.

TI: So the first one is?

TT: Keiko.

TI: And do you know what year she was born, how much older she is?

TT: She's about five years older than me.

TI: Okay, so like 1922. And then after Keiko?

TT: Came Yoshiko.

TI: Yoshiko. And she's about three years older than you?

TT: Two or three years.

TI: Two or three years? Okay.

TT: And then myself, and then my younger sister, her name was Akiko. But during the time when everybody was going into camp, everybody was picking up English names, so she calls herself Donna. So she said, "I'm Donna, I'm not Akiko." But she was born 1930.

TI: And did she make that decision?

TT: She did. All those people did. And I know people tried to find an English name for me, but what can you do with Takeko? [Laughs]

TI: How about your other sisters? Did they pick up English names?

TT: No. Well, Keiko, she is Kay, and Yoshiko is Yo, but you know, those were good enough. But, see, with Tak, Tak was always listed in the men's side of any listing of the Japanese people, I'd find my name in there as one of the boys. So I finally met Budd Fukei, and he did the social register. And any time there was a party or any kind of gathering, I was on the men's side. So finally I said, "Budd," I said, "I am a woman." [Laughs]

TI: Because he was the one who would make those lists up?

TT: Yah, he'd make the lists up. He'd get a list of everybody and then he'd just separate 'em exactly the way he thought. So I finally had to tell him I was a woman.

TI: And then after that, did he remember?

TT: Yah, he did.

TI: Oh, good.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: So let's talk a little bit about your father. Can you tell me his name and where he was from?

TT: He was Takeshi, that's all, Takeshi Yokoyama, and he was from Fukushima. And you want to know what he did?

TI: Yeah, and starting in Japan, do you know what his family did in Japan?

TT: No. That's the trouble, we didn't do those kind of things, we didn't think about all that.

TI: Or did you ever know why he decided to...

TT: To come over here? Just like everybody else, I guess.

TI: To kind of look for a job?

TT: Yah.

TI: Or economic reasons? So when he came to the United States, where did he go?

TT: I think they all came into San Francisco, they came in through that way.

TI: And then how did he get from San Francisco to Seattle?

TT: Well, I think that's what they were all doing, it was just an automatic thing.

TI: Oh, so he was planning to go to Seattle, but just went through San Francisco.

TT: Yah.

TI: I see. And what did he do early when he first came, do you know what kind of work he did?

TT: Well, he was a truck driver... not truck driver, because he had a passenger car, for Grand Union Laundry, and they were right down here on Main Street, between 12th and 14th. But he used to do the truck driving and just pick up laundry and deliver it. I don't think he did anything else, that's all I remember about him.

TI: And then... so let's go to your mother. How did your father and mother meet?

TT: As a "picture bride."

TI: And do you know who the go-between was?

TT: No, no, I don't. But she says she was tricked into it because she thought he was more professional or had more background, but he didn't. And he said something about he was into dentistry, so she expected him to be a dentist. And he said he couldn't stand looking into the mouths of people, so he didn't follow through on that. So he eventually just did whatever he wanted to and became a truck driver for that.

TI: And when you hear those stories, or when your mother was talking about those stories, did she ever express, like, frustration by being sort of tricked in that way?

TT: Yes, yes. She says, "He tricked me," you know. "Baka ni sareta," or something, you know.

TI: And what does that mean?

TT: You know, baka, "made a fool of her." Because she was a teacher, she was a Japanese school teacher in Japan. She went to normal school, and at seventeen she was teaching. So she was very smart, and then when she came over here, she became a Japanese school teacher. And you know, with us kids, I mean, she would listen to everything we said, so then she would learn Pig Latin and sign language and everything, and so the students couldn't get away with anything. And even one time, somebody said, "Danke schoen," or "danke schoen," and she said, "Oh, anta German natteru." And she said, "Oh my god, she knows German, too."

TI: And so did your mother speak English?

TT: Well, she knew enough English. And she would go to, I think they had English classes at Broadway or something, and she might have gone to that. But just listening to us.

TI: It sounds like she was pretty proficient.

TT: Yah. But listening to all four of us girls talking, she always listened to what we had to say.

TI: She sounds really interesting. I mean, so let's go back a little bit. So what was her name?

TT: Hideyo, H-I-D-E-Y-O, and maiden name, Doi, D-O-I.

TI: Okay. And where from Japan?

TT: Hiroshima.

TI: Hiroshima. And do you know what, with her education level, I'm curious, do you know what her family did in Japan?

TT: No.

TI: And what was the age difference between your mother and father?

TT: It's about twelve years.

TI: So you were just talking a little bit about your mother and how she would like to listen in to the conversations and pick up language and things. What was she like? What was her personality like?

TT: Well, she wasn't too open, she kept a lot of things to herself. And she never complimented us, that was one thing that Issei women did not do. She never said anything nice about us. And in fact, when I became a broker, she just told me why did I get a job like a man? And I said, "Because I enjoy it and I like to do it." But she said, "Doshita otoko-no shigoto shita?" But she wanted me to be a woman. [Laughs] And I was, but in her thoughts, I guess, she wanted me to be more lady-like.

TI: And was she like that with your siblings, your other sisters?

TT: I don't know. Well, see, after the war, my two older sisters were never home. I was home for quite a while, and so she knew more about me, and I was able to help her out and do different things. And so once thing that... you know, I enjoyed working, and she had a fit when I gave up the chance to go to college.

TI: Yeah, so we'll get to that later, we'll talk about that. Okay, so it sounds like your mother...

TT: Because she had the education, she thought that we should have it, too.

TI: Right, right. So we talked a little bit about your mother, how about your father? What was he like?

TT: Well, he was very casual, very... I don't know how you explain it, he was just a man. And he was happy to have the girls. He used to want a boy for one of his children, but he says, "Onna no ko ga yokatta," "Girls are better to have."

TI: Well, but he had so many, I mean, so in the family he had, surrounded by five women, four of his daughters and his wife.

TT: Yah. But especially when they got older, he said it was nice because women always come home, and boys don't come back.

TI: And personality-wise, did he ever go out with friends?

TT: They used to all drink, all his friends used to drink, so that's why my mother used to get mad. Because she used to make sake with the rice, which is her fault, she should never have made it if she didn't want him to have it. But they all enjoyed drinking it, it was just the rice sake that she would make. But you know, he'd drive the truck to deliver things, and what he would do, he might make short stops and come in to the house and drink. So nowadays I even hear of other people saying, "Oh yah, your father and my father used to be drinking buddies."

TI: Oh, interesting. And did you ever see him when he was out with his friends, and was he different than he was at home?

TT: No. That's one thing we never saw, you know, when they went out with other people. It's not like these days now.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: So let's start talking a little bit about you now. You mentioned that you were born at 921 Lane Street.

TT: Uh-huh.

TI: Can you describe that house or that place?

TT: Well, it was two-story, three story building, and it was right there where the freeway is now. And so... do you know Rabbit Honda, their family, Rabbit and Michi? Well, they were there, and so we got to know some of the older people at that time. But I don't know what we did or why. All I know is we lived there and then we went to... and then from there we moved up to 23rd and Jackson. So school-wise, we went to Rainier school first, and then moved from there down to 18th Avenue and started going to Washington school.

TI: But because the building's not there anymore, the freeway took it out, I'm just curious. So a three-story building, how many families lived in that...

TT: There were three families.

TI: So everyone had their own floor?

TT: Yah.

TI: And so what floor was your family on?

TT: I don't know, I think in the middle. I don't know.

TI: Okay, so you can't really remember.

TT: No, can't remember anything about the... we never talked about that.

TI: And then when you went up to 23rd and Jackson...

TT: Yah, we were kind of, a couple blocks.

TI: And do you remember that place at all?

TT: Well, I just remember it because we have a picture of us all standing on the front porch, and it was on 23rd Avenue.

TI: Okay. And then from there you went to the 18th and Weller place.

TT: Uh-huh.

TI: And do you remember that place?

TT: Well, more, because by then I think I must have been about a teenager. We moved from one house to the next, and we just stayed in that area until the war. And we used to play baseball, you know, on 18th and Weller was a place where everybody gathered, and a lot of Japanese people were there.

TI: I'm trying to think what's there right now. So it's not that far from... St. Peter's church is on King, and then Weller...

TT: Do you know the Kawada family?

TI: I know of them.

TT: Imanishis? Well, they live in that house across the street now. They've been there since before the war. But we were right across the street from them.

TI: So is your old house still there?

TT: It's still there.

TI: And describe the house.

TT: Just a little tiny one-bedroom house.

TI: Wow, for six of you?

TT: Six of us.

TI: So what was the sleeping arrangements like with one bedroom? Who got the bedroom?

TT: Well, see, the only thing I remember is after we got older, and having my younger sister, my mother slept with my younger sister 'cause she had to take care of her, and I ended up sleeping with my father. See, my father, and then my other two sisters slept in the other bed. We had two double beds. And one day, my oldest sister said, "You know, if you sleep with a man, you're gonna have a baby." And she says I just froze in bed, and I'd just sleep against the wall. And one day she went and touched me and I just jumped. [Laughs]

TI: Oh, interesting.

TT: But that's all we had, we had that, and then we had a bathroom, and we had a living room, and that's where we just had a radio, no TV. This was all before TV or anything. But we played outside a lot.

TI: And tell me about that. So did you play with your sisters or with other kids in the neighborhood?

TT: With other kids in the neighborhood. We used to play volleyball, we used to play Kick the Can, we used to play anything you could do outside. And then the only time we were inside is when we all listened to the radio, and we'd all gather and listen to "One Man's Family" and that type of stuff.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: So take me through a typical day, like a weekday when you would have to go to school. I just want to get a sense of the rhythm of what happened during a typical day.

TT: Yah, see, we lived on 18th and Weller, and Washington school was on 18th and King? No, it's on the other side of...

TI: Right, Jackson, King.

TT: So we'd all walk to school, any friends would pick us up on the way, and we'd all walk to school.

TI: But even start from when you wake up, I'm curious about breakfast, what you had, everything. So just from the moment you wake up, let's walk through the day.

TT: Well, when I woke up, then I'm a sleepyhead, so I don't even know if we had breakfast or what we did. See, I don't remember those kind of things. And I know my mother was home then, because she taught Japanese school, but she was home during the day. And then for a while she was working as a housegirl, housewoman, and she would take off, my father would take her to work. So I don't know if we just got ourselves ready for school and went.

TI: But you remember sometimes, I mean, your friends would come by and pick you up as they were going to school. So you're waiting at your house, and then you see them coming and you just kind of joined them?

TT: Yah. We'd go down the alley, because we had alleys then, and so we'd go down the alley and meet people at the bottom of the alley on 18th Avenue.

TI: And you were close to school, I mean, Washington school, you're just like a block or so away.

TT: And then when we got into Garfield High School, we used to walk all the way up there.

TI: And again, that's not too far away.

TT: No, but now people look at it, "You used to walk that far?" [Laughs] You know, because kids nowadays, couple blocks is far for them to go.

TI: Because you're talking about maybe five blocks to Garfield?

TT: More than that, from 18th up to 23rd.

TI: Yeah, and then over, I guess.

TT: Over about three, four blocks. But we did a lot of walking. We used to walk downtown on the weekends, and we'd go to a movie, and then we'd walk home all the way, too.

TI: Now that's a pretty long walk, downtown.

TT: Yah. But we didn't have any money, and even with bus for about five cents, I mean, we didn't have the money to be taking a bus.

TI: Right.

TT: We were lucky we went to a movie.

TI: So let's go back to when you went to Washington school, so this is your junior high school.

TT: It was still a regular high school then.

TI: A regular...

TT: I mean, regular grade school.

TI: Oh, grade school back then.

TT: Yah. And that's when they divided the sixth grade, and we, part of us went to Bailey Gatzert the last year before Washington became a junior high. And I think that's where I met your dad.

TI: At Bailey Gatzert?

TT: Yah.

TI: Because he lived further down.

TT: Yah. So we went there for half a year.

TI: But going back to when you were going to, then, Washington elementary school, when you were younger, after school... or let me ask you, for lunch, do you remember what you did for lunch? Did you bring lunch or did you...

TT: We usually brought some kind of sandwich. And if we wanted something to eat, I think for a nickel you used to be able to buy shepherd's pie. That's the one thing I remember. I don't remember anything else, but the shepherd's pie was something they used to make.

TI: Well, the other thing, as you talk about, sort of, pie and breads and sandwiches, your neighborhood had, did they have bakeries back then?

TT: Wonder Bakery.

TI: Yeah, that's my memory of that area, they had the Wonder Bakery, and the --

TT: Wonder Bakery and the Seattle French Bakery.

TI: Right, and the smells because of the baked goods.

TT: Yah. So if we didn't have any bread, my mother would say, "Go up, walk up to the bakery and get a loaf of bread." So I'd go on the back door, knock on the door, and they'd open it and give me... for five cents I'd get a loaf of bread. But, see, that was on 20th and Weller.

TI: Yeah, so a couple blocks up from you. And when you did that, I mean, was that like day-old bread or was that fresh bread?

TT: No, it was fresh bread.

TI: Okay.

TT: You know, you just knock on the door and says, "Could buy a loaf of bread?" and they said, "Sure. You got five cents?" "Okay."

TI: Oh, interesting. But they didn't have like a retail outlet?

TT: No, not then.

TI: Okay. So after school, after your regular school, then what happened?

TT: Then we'd come home and we'd get oyatsu, you know what oyatsu is?

TI: Like a snack?

TT: Yah, it's just a little snack, maybe a Hershey Kiss or maybe a little something. And then we'd stay home, and then we went to Japanese school.

TI: And that's just down the block?

TT: Yah, down on... what was it? Fourteenth and Weller. It's where it is now.

TI: So more like... I always think of it more almost like 16th and Weller. Maybe it's 14th.

TT: Well, you know, the blocks were longer. We lived on 18th, so it was from 18th to 14th, it was nothing, we'd just go downhill.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: And so tell me a little bit... because this is where your mother worked.

TT: Uh-huh, my mother was a teacher.

TI: And I'm curious for you, did that put more pressure on you, having your mother as one of the teachers at Japanese language school?

TT: Yes.

TI: How so?

TT: Because when she... because the classes were pretty large, so maybe they'd have one grade into two different classes, but I had to always be in another class, not with her as my teacher. And then one year, it couldn't be helped, they had to stick, put me in there, one of her classes. But she picked on me, on purpose, I think. And I used to get so upset.

TI: And how about the other teachers? Did they expect more from you because they knew that you were the daughter of...

TT: I don't know if they did or not, but I was good at Japanese, a yuutousei, you know what that was?

TI: No.

TT: That was when you get, you were in the higher grade.

TI: Oh, I see.

TT: But I enjoyed Japanese school, and I wish I studied more. I think everybody feels that way. But we'd go there from four to five during the winter hours, but four to five-thirty during the spring and the fall because of the longer days.

TI: And then when you were done with Japanese language school, so it's like five during the winter, five-thirty in the spring, then what would you do?

TT: Then we'd walk home, and we'd go home for dinner. And I don't even know who used to fix the dinner.

TI: Yeah, I was going to ask. Because since your mother was a teacher...

TT: Yah. Then my older sisters, I guess, had to help on that, or my mother used to make something before she went, and we would eat later. But we didn't hardly eat anything, you know, it was rice and wieners, maybe. We were all very poor.

TI: So do you recall, I mean, when you had dinners, was it more just the girls then eating together, or do you remember eating with your parents?

TT: With the parents? Well, once in a while we would eat with our parents, but it's usually the girls. It's not like... see, because we just had a living room, a dining room, and a kitchen, and one bedroom. So we had to all eat at the same time.

TI: And then after dinner, what would usually happen?

TT: Oh, we had to clean up, so we'd have to help, we'd have to take turns helping with the dishes. And then we would either do our homework or we'd listen to the radio. Or else we'd go outside and play, because there were a lot of kids in that neighborhood. And so it was all the jintori and Kick the Can, you know, good old days. [Laughs]

TI: And then how did things change on the weekend? So, say like on a Saturday, what would you do? Because you didn't have regular school.

TT: No.

TI: And did your mom have to teach Japanese school?

TT: Yah, sometimes she used to go to some of the outlying schools to teach. You know, like South Park and I don't know where else she went.

TI: Right, because a lot of the outlying areas, they would have their Japanese language school on the weekends.

TT: Yah, and they'd have to get somebody from the other schools to come down and teach them.

TI: And so what would you do when your mom is teaching?

TT: We'd just sit around and play with the other friends.

TI: And how about your father, was he around?

TT: Well, he had to take her. See, he didn't have to work on Saturdays.

TI: Oh, but he had a car, so he would drive.

TT: Yah, he was able to take her.

TI: And so he would sort of take her and then just stay out there until she was done and then come back?

TT: Yah.

TI: So you were really independent, the kids. You just took care of yourselves.

TT: Yah, I think so. And then, or else with our friends, we might walk downtown. We never took bus, we couldn't afford the nickel to ride a bus, so we would walk from Eighteenth Avenue all the way downtown and we'd go see a movie, and that's what we did on the weekends, maybe see that. Or else we'd go see friends and play around with them.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: Yeah, when I think about, you mentioned earlier how different your childhood was compared to, like, kids growing up today, when you mentioned how much you walked around. From your place, you're walking literally miles to downtown, and just sort of on your own, there's no supervision.

TT: No, we'd walk there and walk back.

TI: And what do you think kids today miss because they don't do that? I mean, it's sort of like children today aren't, they don't do that.

TT: Yah, they're not aware of the surroundings. We used to know everything about where everything was, downtown, the stores and everything. Because we used to know where we were going.

TI: Well, and you'd have, in some ways, like a whole day to do that, too, because your parents were busy working, that if you went downtown, yeah, not only were you going there, but you probably didn't have to come back right away, you were probably walking around.

TT: No, we'd go to the ten cent store and have a drink, or have something to eat. [Laughs]

TI: And so what do you think kids today miss by not, by not being able to do that?

TT: They're not as independent, I don't think. They just know that those things are available to them, and the parents will take them, or somebody else's parents take them. Or they're involved in sports. See, we weren't involved in sports, we just had... I don't even know, we played baseball. I think they had volleyball, but I don't remember playing all that. But then we had Japanese school too, during the week.

TI: See, I'm trying to think in terms of how that will impact kids today by not having those experiences, how that will impact them in the workforce. When they become adults, how they will sort of, how their work habits will be different than someone like you, who had to be pretty much on your own.

TT: Yah. Well, they're all involved in different things. My great granddaughters, I mean, they go to school, and then they have afterschool sports, or else they do calisthenics or... they're involved in everything. And then my granddaughter says, I said, "Well, how come you're so involved in things?" But she remembers her childhood and how I used to take her to everything and just keep busy. So that's what she's doing now with her children.

TI: Yeah, so I think that's pretty common, that parents today keep their children busy, but in more organized patterns. And I think back to your childhood, as you talk about it, it was so unstructured. You were busy, but it was all unstructured, you were creating it as you'd go on.

TT: Yah. We just did it because we were doing it, or we wanted to do something.

TI: Other Japanese community events, or even related to the language school. But were there events that you recall where the Japanese community came together?

TT: Yah, when they had picnics, and I really miss that.

TI: Yeah, tell me about that.

TT: Oh, because it used to be up there at Jefferson Park, and we'd all make, the parents would make the onigiri and then it'd be teriyaki chicken, and make nishime. And hakujins would come by, you know, white people, and they'd say, "Oh, everything looks so good," and they'd kind of look over to see what we're eating. And here they said, "All we do is bring sandwiches." But that's what we really looked forward to.

TI: And was it... so everyone would bring food. Did people just eat their food, or was it shared?

TT: Well, sometimes they would share, but it was mostly eating your own food. And then they'd have races and they'd do things, it was more structured. It's not just going.

TI: And so give me kind of a picture, so the kids are probably playing games, what are the men doing at these picnics?

TT: Well, they'd have races, and they'd have to set things up, and then play volleyball or whatever. But everybody kept busy, because they didn't have actual toys to play with, so they would just do whatever they could.

TI: And then how about the women? Were they also doing races?

TT: Yah, or looking at the boys. [Laughs] We just did without because we knew we didn't have it.

TI: So picnics, any other community events you remember, like maybe dinners or anything where you'd have to attend because maybe your mom was...

TT: The kenjinkai.

TI: Yeah, maybe kenjinkai.

TT: Yah, you have to go on those things, just to be there with other people.

TI: And how would you characterize your parents? I mean, how involved were they with, like, organizing these events?

TT: Well, they just did what they knew was available, and that on certain days, certain things happened. And you know, we didn't really do too much. We went where they told us to do, we did everything we were told to do. You know, that's what other people can't understand now, even with the evacuation. They said, "How come you did it?" I said, "Because we were told to."

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: So I want to now kind of shift gears and go to your experiences at regular school. And I'm curious, when you first started school, like kindergarten, what was your primary language at that point?

TT: Oh, by then we were speaking English. We didn't speak Japanese at school.

TI: Yeah, but when, at home, before you even started school, were you speaking English when you were like four years old, or was it Japanese?

TT: No, I think we were speaking more English. Because our sisters were older.

TI: Okay, so your sisters were using English and you were conversing with them.

TT: Yah. As far as I could remember, we probably mixed a lot. See, that's why us Niseis mix our languages so much.

TI: But I'm wondering, do you find that your Japanese is generally better than most Niseis?

TT: Yah, because my mother was the Japanese school teacher.

TI: Right, because I'm just noticing as I'm interviewing you, you use more Japanese than most Niseis.

TT: Yah, and you have to be polite. You don't just use terms. And so when I went to Japan, they said that they were surprised at my Japanese because I'm speaking the Meiji era. And I said, well, my mother was a Nihongakko sensei, so I said I knew that. I wish I learned more. Hindsight.

TI: So if people, if one of your students were to describe you, Tak, in terms of what kind of student you were in regular school, how would your classmates describe you?

TT: Well, I don't remember anything about grade school or junior high, it's just in later years that I was more outspoken than most Japanese people, that I would say whatever I thought.

TI: So what would be an example of that? Do you remember how that would show up in terms of being more outspoken?

TT: Well, because I would speak up when other people just kind of hold back, and they won't want to say anything, but I would always raise my hand and tell them, "iran koto." [Laughs]

TI: So like during a classroom discussion, you would just go ahead and volunteer.

TT: Yah. And one thing, see, I didn't like history or English. English I could do conjugating and all that kind of stuff, but as far as reading, I did very little reading, so I would not answer on those. So my teachers used to tell me, "When you know the answer, raise your hand." So they felt sorry for me, I think.

TI: Why do you say they felt sorry for you?

TT: Well, because, you know, a lot of answers I wouldn't know, and they would know that I didn't know, and then -- this is later on in the years -- but one teacher used to say, "You didn't study that, did you?" and I said, "No." I said, "You could tell?" She says, "Yes, by your answers, that I know you didn't read your lessons or do that." [Laughs] I don't dare tell the kids that.

TI: When you went to... so in terms of your schooling, you mentioned earlier, the first school you went to was the Rainier school?

TT: Rainier school for kindergarten, and then after that we went to Washington school.

TI: Washington, and then you spent a year at Bailey Gatzert?

TT: That was when Washington became a junior high, so we had to go to Bailey for half a year.

TI: And then back to Washington?

TT: Yes, uh-huh.

TI: And then to Garfield.

TT: Yah.

TI: And when you were at Garfield, did you do any extracurricular activities? Whether it's student government or any other clubs or sports?

TT: No, I didn't even do too much in sports. I did badminton and things like that. I don't know if I was not capable of doing it, but I didn't do... I played baseball a little bit.

TI: And when you say baseball, more softball?

TT: Softball. Yah, I don't think women played hardball then.

TI: Yeah, when you said it, so that's why... and so when you started high school, so I'm trying to get my, now my dates here. So 1927, so you were about fifteen when the war started?

TT: Yah.

TI: And so what grade were you in at Garfield when the war started?

TT: I was a sophomore. I think we, from freshman we went into being a sophomore.

TI: Okay, so you started freshman year at Garfield and then became a sophomore.

TT: And then during our sophomore year is when we had to leave.

TI: Okay, all right.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: So let's go to December 7, 1941, so let's talk about that day. Again, starting from the morning, this is a weekend.

TT: Uh-huh, Sunday.

TI: Yeah, so were your parents, was your mom teaching that day?

TT: No, she was just home. She used to go to Buddhist church, she was very active. So she went to church, and my father stayed home and worked around the house or did whatever.

TI: And what did you do that...

TT: And we went to the movies. We always, you know, on Sundays, I don't think we went to church. If we went to church, we went to church first, and go to a movie with our friends. And we would walk to the theaters.

TI: And this is all the way downtown?

TT: Yes. And then we walked back. And that was the day when, on 20th and Jackson there was a Corky's Cash Grocery that had ice cream, and so we'd always stop there and have ice cream. And he said, "What are you girls doing here?" And we said, "Oh, we went to the movie and we wanted some ice cream, so we're here." They said, "You don't know what happened?" We said, "No." They said, "Well, the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor," and we said, "What's Pearl Harbor?" Nobody knew where Pearl Harbor was. So he told us we better go home, and so we did.

TI: And the proprietor of the store, was he Japanese?

TT: He was Japanese, uh-huh.

TI: Was he Issei or Nisei?

TT: He was an older Nisei.

TI: And were there other people in the shop when he told you that?

TT: No, I think he would tell people, and then they would leave.

TI: Oh, so he was kind of like that, almost like the community bulletin board, people would come by and he'd tell people that didn't know.

TT: Just so we got home by dinnertime, that's all we were interested in.

TI: Well, I'm curious, when you walked from the movie house downtown home...

TT: We didn't run into anybody.

TI: Yeah, so there wasn't like newspaper people saying, "Extra, extra"?

TT: No, not that we know of. We didn't think anything of it until he told us that it was bombed.

TI: So you, at that point, go home, and do your parents know?

TT: Well, yah, they had heard. Because we used to have a shortwave radio, so naturally they used to know all the things going on.

TI: And so tell me, so you walk in, what are your parents doing when you walk in on them?

TT: Probably listening to the radio or just sitting around.

TI: And what kind of reaction did they have when you came in?

TT: Well, they wanted to be sure we got home safely, they didn't know what was happening to us.

TI: And so you got home safely with no incident. How about your sisters?

TT: Yah, my older sister, she had gone to a movie also. But she said when she came out, somebody slapped her.

TI: So tell me more about that? So who slapped her...

TT: Yah, she came out of the theater with some friends, whoever she was with, and she said this hakujin came and slapped her on the face and said, "You Japs," you know.

TI: Now was it a woman or a man who said that?

TT: A woman. She didn't know why she was being slapped. She said, "She came and just slapped me on my face." So that's when we realized how serious it was.

TI: What did you think when you heard your sister, and you said now you realized how serious it was? What were you thinking?

TT: Well, in those days we didn't think that much, you know. Something happened, it happened.

TI: Or what were you feeling? I mean, were you frightened, were you angry?

TT: Well, I felt bad for her that she got hit, but I didn't know what else to feel. War, we'd never been in the war, so what did that mean it was going to be for us?

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: So that's December 7th, let's talk about December 8th, now it's Monday. What was it like in school for you?

TT: See, that I don't remember too much either. We just went to school, and people maybe talked about it. But we had, you know, we had Chinese people in our class, we had Germans, we had Italians, and a lot of Jewish people, and they couldn't figure out why we would be, feel so bad about it. Because they said, "We're all the same, we're all Americans." I said, "That's what we thought, too," but it wasn't. Because as things progressed, that we were more segregated. And so then we ended up quitting school and staying home.

TI: Was this quitting school before the orders showed up in terms of having to leave?

TT: Yah.

TI: So you left even...

TT: I don't know, but I mean, everything led up to the fact that they were gonna move us out.

TI: But the quitting the school part, was that decided by the family that you shouldn't go to school anymore, or were all Japanese...

TT: I think all the Japanese were slowly starting to do that, because they knew that we would have to get rid of our things, we'd have to decide what we're gonna take. We didn't know where we were going.

TI: At school, did they ever have... did the teachers or principal, or was there an assembly that kind of talked about the war or anything else?

TT: Well, see, they probably did that afterward. See, I don't remember too much about what happened at school or with people in those days. Because you know, it's something that if it happens, it happens, and we just hear it, and that's it. We're very carefree, I think.

TI: Now, did you start seeing the signs of war in terms of was there things happening in Seattle that you can remember that all of a sudden changed after December 7th?

TT: That's something I don't really remember.

TI: Things like blackouts, do you remember, like, putting your...

TT: Yah, we used to have to pull our shades down because the blackout was at a certain time. And we didn't dare put our lights on or peek outside. We didn't go outside after a certain time.

TI: Do you remember the curfew when Japanese had to be in their homes by...

TT: Yah, because my mother, our parents would say you can't go out because of the war, that we have the curfew. And, see, they stopped the Japanese schools.

TI: Yeah, so I was going to ask you that. So let's go back to December 8th. So normally after regular school you'd go to Japanese language school. What happened on December 8th? Was there Japanese school?

TT: No, there wasn't, because they closed it. My mother went down there, and she was the only teacher that checked in, but they said no, there was no school. And I saw her name on the register for that day. And I've read things where they say that they had Japanese school on the 8th but they didn't, because they had already closed it.

TI: Now on December... right after December 7th, the FBI started picking up people in Seattle, Japanese the Isseis, many of them were community leaders or Japanese language school teachers, people that like. Were you aware of any of your parents' friends or people that were getting picked up by the FBI?

TT: Yah, people that had real good jobs or things like that, we knew that something was happening. And I think my mother had some money at the Sumitomo Bank, and that was one thing, she tried to get money out, but she couldn't. I think they froze everything.

TI: Right, they froze all bank accounts.

TT: Yah. So I don't know if they ever got that money back.

TI: Yeah, after a certain period of time, they allowed small withdrawals. But initially they froze the banks. Was your mother or your parents ever concerned about possibly being picked up by the FBI as others were being picked up?

TT: No, because my mother was just a teacher, so they didn't bother women teachers. It was more the men that they were interested in. And my father was just a truck driver, so he didn't get called in.

TI: And so as the weeks started going by, eventually people find out that the Japanese are going to have to leave Seattle. What kind of preparation did the family do to get ready?

TT: Well, then we had to get typhoid shots. We had to go and have shots, because they didn't know where we were going to be sent. And so, of course, we did what we were told and went.

TI: And when you say typhoid shots, did you just go to the hospital or did you...

TT: No, they had a place where we were all going.

TI: Do you remember where that was?

TT: No, but I remember getting those shots on here.

TI: Yeah, so that wasn't...

TT: And at that age, you think, oh, this is crazy. Why do they want to do that? Where are we going?

TI: And how about your household belongings and all that? What kind of preparations?

TT: Well, slowly when we found out we had to go, then we had to try to get things... but see, we didn't own our house, we were just renting a one-(bedroom) house, so we didn't have anything. So we're not like these people that had bigger homes, and some people were moving to Eastern Washington, so if we knew that they were going, and if it was something that the parents wanted, they would ask them to take it and keep it for them during the rest of the year.

TI: So did your parents do that, were they able to sort of have other families hold their stuff during the war?

TT: Yah. What my mother did was she very active in the Buddhist church. And so at the Buddhist church, they kind of sectioned areas and gave people a place to put things, and they were safe there. But we had, also had a neighbor that owned their own house, so everybody was putting stuff in their house and in the attic.

TI: This was a Japanese family?

TT: It was a Japanese family that had owned their house. But you know, everybody was so gullible, they thought, oh, it'll be safe because it belongs to them. But everything there was stolen.

TI: Oh, so during the war, so was it vacant and they just stored it, or was someone else living there?

TT: I think somebody else was living there.

TI: But it sounds like, so that maybe your family lost some stuff...

TT: Just material things, yah.

TI: But not too much.

TT: No, 'cause they didn't have much. It's the ones that had property or had anything, I mean, they were the ones that really suffered. So like when we went to camp, we just took what we had.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Now do you remember on the day that you had to assemble to go to Puyallup, where your assembly point was?

TT: Yah, it was Collins.

TI: Oh, Collins Playfield?

TT: Uh-huh. We just had to go there and wait outside and catch the bus.

TI: And describe for me what you brought. What were you carrying when you went to Collins Playfield?

TT: Just clothes, just a little bit of clothes. We didn't have books, maybe we took books or paper or something that would keep us busy. But other people had gone before that and they weren't taking the bus. We used to go there and see people leaving first, because they were going to Area A or Area B. We ended up in Area C in Puyallup.

TI: And so what did you learn when you first saw the earlier groups leaving, and what they were carrying? Did that change your thinking in terms of...

TT: No, we just knew that this was war, and we were asked to leave, and we had to do what we were told. And we always did what we were told in those days. So if they said, "Drop this," we dropped it. [Laughs]

TI: So going back to what you carried your clothes, did you have a little suitcase?

TT: We must have had some suitcases, real cheap ones, or maybe a box or something. We were poor.

TI: And when you went to Collins, do you recall kind of what the mood of the people were?

TT: Well, everybody's glad to see everybody else, that it's not just happening to us, it's happening to everybody else, and we're so glad to see people. We were naive.

TI: No, I think that's... yeah, pretty common.

TT: I don't know where your folks went. They went to Puyallup, but I don't know where they lived. They lived on the other side of Yesler?

TI: Yeah, so they lived down there, so I'm not sure... I'm actually not sure where the assembly point was for them.

TT: So they probably went to Puyallup, they probably gathered there on a certain day, too.

TI: And so at Collins Playfield, the buses came and you rode the buses. At this point did you know where you were going?

TT: No.

TI: Okay, so you just saw these buses earlier taking people away, you weren't quite sure. When you are on the bus and they take you then to Puyallup, did you know Puyallup? Had you ever been to the fairgrounds?

TT: Yah, I think we went there for the fairgrounds, because that was the place... but we didn't know where we were going, and we didn't know what the place was, what they had done to it until we started seeing the fences and the barracks.

TI: So what were your impressions when you got there?

TT: Well, really at that age, you just know you're there because they told you to be there, and I don't think we thought any different. "Oh, this is our new home, this is where we have to stay."

TI: Right, and you said Area C?

TT: C.

TI: So that's the parking lot.

TT: Yes.

TI: And so you're kind of shown or told where your quarters are, and there are six of you, so four girls and your parents?

TT: Yah.

TI: So describe what your housing was at Puyallup.

TT: We had one room, maybe a little bigger than this, and we had six cots and a potbelly stove, and that was it. But we knew we were gonna eat in the mess hall where everything else, and we'd have to go outside to go to a bathroom. My sister would always wake me up at night, she says, "I got to go to the bathroom, will you go with me?" So we'd get up and go walk to the outhouse or whatever it was there.

TI: And this is your younger sister?

TT: My older sister.

TI: Older sister, okay.

TT: I don't know if my younger sister, I know my mother had a, you know, potty, and so she used to, my mother used to go in there, and maybe she had my sister go there, too.

TI: By then your younger sister was about twelve, so she was a little bit older.

TT: Yah.

TI: You mentioned earlier, this is about the time your younger sister changed her name. She went from...

TT: In camp she became Donna from Akiko.

TI: To Donna. Now, so did you start changing, did you start calling her Donna then at that point?

TT: Yah. Well, she insisted on it. She said, "Don't call me Akiko or Akko or anything like that, I'm Donna."

TI: And what did you think when she said that?

TT: Well, everybody else was doing that.

TI: Okay, so it didn't seem too strange to you that she would do that.

TT: Yah. And people tried to find a name for me, and I couldn't, what can you do with Takeko? [Laughs]

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So kind of give me a sense of a typical day at Puyallup. What would you do?

TT: We'd sleep in, and everybody else, and you had a breakfast hour. But friends of mine, we were at that age when we're just primping and putting lipstick on and getting ready to go, and we'd be about the last ones in for breakfast. So we were given the reputation, that when myself and some other girls went in, the guys in the kitchen would say, "Uh-oh, here comes Lipstick," because we'd all put lipstick on and get it all over the dishes and everything. [Laughs] So that's what they ended up calling us, they said, "Uh-oh, here comes the lipstick."

TI: Now would they do it kind of in a joking...

TT: In a funny, yah, joking, yah. Well, see, that's where I met Jiro. He was working in the kitchen as a dishwasher, and he says, "Yah, we used to see you guys come in and everybody said, 'Oh, no, here they come, they're the last ones in here and they're all wearing lipstick.'"

TI: So the lipstick group, how big a group was this?

TT: It was only about four of us.

TI: And who were the others? Do you remember who they were?

TT: Yah, I remember who the others were, but never really associated all that. It's just that Jiro used to remind me all the time. He says, "Oh, yah, you guys used to put some lipstick." You notice I don't wear any anymore. [Laughs]

TI: [Laughs] You used up your quota of lipstick.

TT: Yah.

TI: Now what about the rest of your family? So you went with the lipstick crew, how about your parents and your other sisters?

TT: Well, they went with their friends to go eat, and my mother worked in the cafeteria there, in the lunchroom. And so she used to hand out food as the people came in. So we never had any togetherness with the family.

TI: And your father would go on his own with maybe his friends?

TT: Yah.

TI: And then your younger sister, same thing with her friends?

TT: Well, she probably went with the younger people, or my mother might have taken her in.

TI: So you're a late riser, you get the last sort of...

TT: And then we have to dress and fix our hair. [Laughs]

TI: And then you go eat breakfast, and after breakfast, what do you do?

TT: I don't know what we did. Just nothing because we didn't have school. We played cards, in those days we played canasta and I don't know what else. But we'd get together with our friends in their room or our room, and just wait for the day to go.

TI: Now with so many young people in camp, did they organize any, like, social events, whether it's games or sports or, I don't know, dances?

TT: Dances.

TI: At Puyallup, they had at Puyallup?

TT: Yah. Because then they had the Minidoka... that wasn't Minidoka there, it was still Harmonaires. But they were good.

TI: So tell me about the Harmonaires.

TT: Oh, they played music just like Glenn Miller. And we had these watchtowers where the MPs would sit, and in the evening they could hear the music. And we'd be by the fence just kind of goofing off, and they said, "Are they playing records?" and we said, "No, those are regular kids playing music." And they said, "Boy, they're really good." And these guys up there on the tower are just kind of moving around, you know.

TI: And so they were playing all the popular music of the time?

TT: Oh, yah, all the Glenn Miller.

TI: And so people are dancing there, too?

TT: Yah, then we'd have the dance, and then we'd go inside and we'd dance.

TI: And who were these musicians? They were just kind of like...

TT: People that took up music.

TI: And so people like, so people from Garfield, Broadway?

TT: Anywhere, anybody that could play used to be there.

TI: And the Harmonaires, how big a group was it?

TT: Well, they'd have maybe about eight or ten people at the most.

TI: Okay, so it's pretty big.

TT: But they were good. And then we'd just go in there, and the girls would stand on one side, the boys on the other side, and then somebody comes, "Oh, here comes so and so."

TI: Harmonaires, yeah, I'm not sure if I've heard of them.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: I'm curious, after the war, did they ever get together and play again?

TT: I don't think so. Well, they had the reunion, remember? Did you go to the first one at Seattle Center?

TI: Not the Seattle Center...

TT: It was the fortieth year after the camps had closed.

TI: Where at Seattle Center did they have it?

TT: I don't know, they had a place...

TI: Because I remember the Vegas one, but I can't remember the...

TT: This was the very first one, it was in one of the buildings, the little flat buildings. And there were so many people, they were here from all over the country, and I remember going to that, and the man that was at the door, he says, "I have never seen a reunion like this." He says, "Everybody's so happy, they're jumping up and down, they're hugging each other." I said, "Well, we were all in the internment camp together, and we haven't seen these people since then, and so we're all so happy." And by then we were in our... how old were we then?

TI: Fortieth, so you were probably fifty-seven, fifty-eight?

TT: Yah. So we'd all been doing other things, but then to see all these people that we knew before the war, because they were coming from all over the United States, and people that were already moved out of the States, too. In fact, Frank had taken a video because he was actually there then, too. And you'd see the people and you could recognize them. Says, "Hey, there's so and so," "there's so and so." So I really enjoyed looking at those --

TI: Now, was this the reunion that later on you guys did games at Lincoln Park?

TT: Yah, that was the very first one.

TI: Yeah, so I remember helping my dad with the games.

TT: Yah, that was the biggest one, because it was the first one.

TI: Yeah, so I don't think I did anything at the Seattle Center, but I remember helping with the games.

TT: Uh-huh. And volleyball...

TI: Yeah, they had all sorts. My dad has all these photographs of it.

TT: Yah, I could imagine.

TI: So I remember seeing that.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: Any other memories from Puyallup that kind of stand out?

TT: No, then every so often they had groups going from one area to the other to visit. I don't know why we did that, but we'd all have to march together, and we'd go to Area B or whatever. And we'd see all these people we haven't seen for a while. But I don't know what we did there, or how long we visited.

TI: So why don't you briefly explain the layout of Puyallup. We mentioned you were in Area C.

TT: Area C.

TI: How many different areas were there?

TT: They had four. Area A, A was the big one that was inside the... no, that was in another bigger area. And so a lot of the Seattle people were in there. And B was a smaller one, and a lot of the people from the smaller, Auburn and things like that, and we were Area C, we were one of the later ones. And D was the one where people were stuck in their, you know, in the bad areas where they kept the animals and everything.

TI: The animal stalls. And who got Area D?

TT: Oh, I don't know who or why, but they took the areas of where people were moving from.

TI: And so did you join, did you visit the other areas?

TT: Yah, when we could. We'd have to get special permits, and we'd have to be escorted.

TI: And of the four areas, was there sort of a sense that some areas are better than others?

TT: Not really, it was just from where you were living before.

TI: And for Area C, was there like one big mess hall or was there multiple mess halls?

TT: No, it's just one mess hall.

TI: And that was pretty much the same for the other areas?

TT: Uh-huh. And they had our meals at a certain time, and we'd just all go there, line up, and go in. And then we would eat with our friends. See, so you lost all your family contact.

TI: Now do you recall any kind of tension or grumbling about how the camps were being run at Puyallup, or how Puyallup was being run?

TT: No, we just, well, we just knew this is what's happening, and we did...

TI: The reason I ask is that the government was, in some ways, it was almost like an experiment, but they actually had some of the leadership from the JACL take a more leadership role in terms of running Puyallup. And I know that caused some dissention with some of the Issei, and I was just wondering if you sensed any of that.

TT: And our age we just did what we were told, and we didn't think about why they did it. They said, "Why did you do it?" and I said, "Because we were told to. We just followed instructions."

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: So then at some point, Minidoka's ready for people. So tell me about sort of moving from Puyallup to Minidoka. How did that happen?

TT: I don't know how they did it. We just knew that it was our time to go, and they had the buses, so we just got everything that we had and put it together, and then went on the bus. I think we went on the bus from there to the train station. And on the train station, you know, everybody had to pull their shades down because they didn't want us to know where we were going.

TI: Now did you know where you were going at this point?

TT: No.

TI: So still you're...

TT: We went because we were told to get on the train and we're going.

TI: Do you recall any of the, what people thought when people were going on the train?

TT: No, they just peek and they says, "I wonder where we are." And they'd see dirt, and everybody was just the case of wondering.

TI: But at some point you were probably thinking, well, looks like we're going to Eastern Washington, or we're going east.

TT: Yah, well, we didn't know because we didn't know Eastern Washington or anything before the war, we never went anywhere.

TI: Now in the train and on the bus, were there soldiers there?

TT: There must have been. Because we weren't supposed to look outside. If we were peeking, somebody would tell us, "Oh, you're not supposed to peek, you're not supposed to look."

TI: Okay. Any memories from the train ride to Minidoka?

TT: Yah, I did one thing, because one of my friends had epilepsy, and so she had an attack there. So that was the first time I knew about epilepsy, too. And so I helped her mother. And so once we went to Minidoka, she and I worked in the mess hall together, and so I was able to kind of watch her. But if anything happened, I knew that I should go after her mother.

TI: And when she had an episode, or I guess a seizure, was there any medical assistance?

TT: No, all I did was whenever she had one, I made sure I put something in her mouth so she wouldn't bite her (tongue) and then I'd go and get her mother, wherever her mother was. But I don't know, she must have gotten out of it, because I saw her years later, and she became a teacher and she's fine.

TI: So you eventually make it to Hunt, Idaho, or Minidoka. What are your impressions when you get there?

TT: Well, it was big. And all of this is where we're gonna stay now, and then they told, and we didn't have school then yet either, because school didn't start 'til November, and we went over there in about August or September.

TI: Now do you remember what block you were?

TT: I was Block 21, right by the sewer system. [Laughs] Well, you have maps of the blocks.

TI: Yes. And what were your impressions of Minidoka versus Puyallup?

TT: Well, it was bigger, and this is where we're gonna stay. But, I mean, we didn't ask too many questions, you know, everybody says, "Well, why didn't you ask?" And I said, "Well, we just did what we were told, and they would tell us what we're gonna do next."

TI: But as you were going through it, did you feel like, oh, this feels like a better place?

TT: Yah, it was better because it was (larger). We didn't have that much more room.

TI: But the facilities were...

TT: Larger and spread out.

TI: You had the block system so that your mess hall was closer.

TT: Right in the middle.

TI: Things like that. And did you, did your parents have jobs at Minidoka?

TT: I think my father worked in the laundry room or (delivering) the coal. They used to have to help to get coal into the (apartments). My mother worked in the kitchen, she helped wait on tables.

TI: And so what did you do at Minidoka?

TT: Just goofed off, just had fun with the friends.

TI: And at this point you're sixteen, you're still fifteen?

TT: Fifteen, sixteen. Fifteen, I think, 'cause I left right after my sixteenth birthday.

TI: Okay.

TT: And then we had ice, you know, snow, because the winters were real cold. And in those days, women did not wear pants, we just had these skirts that came up to my knees, and bobby socks. Oh, my father used to have a fit, but we were young and we could take all that. So we'd go outside and play with our friends and I'd come in and he'd get mad, and he'd just rub me, he said, "Baka no koto."

TI: Yeah, because your legs were probably bright red from just being out there. Because it would get not only below freezing, but probably down to zero.

TT: Yah. Well, when you're that young, you're having fun with all our friends.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

TI: So you didn't spend that much time at Minidoka because you talked about leaving when you were sixteen, have your sixteenth birthday. But when school started in November, did you attend school?

TT: Yah.

TI: And so tell me about that. What was school like compared to Garfield?

TT: Well, at school we were just inside of a barrack, and then we sat at the tables and we just, they passed paper around to us, and we listened and that was about it. And supposed to be learning things.

TI: And was it pretty much the same as what you were learning at Garfield?

TT: No, because these teachers were, I don't know where they came from, but they would have a book. We didn't each have a book, we had to share everything.

TI: And so how would you describe the quality of education when the schools first opened in comparison to your experiences in Seattle?

TT: Well, I just knew it wasn't like a public school, and that we were all just sharing everything. We didn't have our own desk, we didn't have anything.

TI: So it sounds like it wasn't as good.

TT: No. That's why I told my mother I wanted to leave, and this is when I just turned sixteen, and she said, "No, baka no koto." [Laughs]

TI: And were there others who felt the same way, they were leaving, too, for high school.

TT: Well, not as many, because they were scared to. But I just told my mother, I said, "I'm not learning anything and I want to go out." And they had the War Relocation Authority which had people that wanted people from the camp. And so my sister, she told my mother, my mother told her that I could not leave by myself, that if she went with me it would be okay. But, see, I had found the family that needed a nanny, I guess. They didn't call them that, it was just a babysitter at that time. And it was three children, three girls.

TI: Now when you said you found, how would you find out about this?

TT: The War Relocation, people that needed...

TI: So they would apply, they would say, "I have a position open"?

TT: Yah. "I would like to have somebody come and take care of my children."

TI: Okay, so the WRA must have been having, like, I guess, ads in various city newspapers?

TT: Yah. I don't know how they did it, but that's what we had.

TI: And then you said one of your older sisters, is this Keiko?

TT: Keiko. No, Yoshiko was, she was just active with her own friends. So after she had been in camp, she and her girlfriend, they found a job, and they went to Toledo and worked at the Toledo yacht club, and they were just waitresses there, and they hated it. But when we decided, I wanted to go out, I said, "Well, as long as they're over there, we should go over there, too." And that didn't hit them very good, because they were so tired of being in there, and they wanted to go to Chicago, because lot of the people had gone there, Chicago and New York.

TI: But you had made these arrangements to go live with this family to sort of babysit or be a nanny.

TT: Yah.

TI: How about your older sister? Did she go...

TT: Well, then she went to (a family that) needed somebody to just help at their home. And that was in Ottawa Hills in Toledo, which is a real nice area. So she got a job with them. And so just close enough so that on our days off she could come and see me, or we used to take a bus and do things together.

TI: So I'm thinking, so you're sixteen years old, a high school student, and you're going to a place you've never been before to live with people you don't know.

TT: That's right.

TI: What were you thinking and feeling about that?

TT: Oh, I was out, and I get to go to school. And I don't remember being a good student when I went to school, but it's just that I felt like I wanted to get out of the camp.

TI: And when you got to Toledo, what was the, how was the reception from the family that you were living with?

TT: Well, they had already asked for me, and they knew everything about me, and they had the three girls. And so I was supposed to take care of the girls, you know, when I'm there, and help with the dinner and help around the house. And then it was in a pretty nice neighborhood, it was right near Toledo University. And so she had actually contacted a couple girls that were gonna be in the same grade to take care of me, but I never heard from them. And somehow I got to school, and I made friends with other people there. But that one woman called me just recently about a month ago, she has a son in Olympia. And I said, "Well, how did you find me?" She said, "I called the girl that does all the reunions," and she said she wondered if anybody was, who was still living that she might be able to look up, and she found my name. And right away I said, "Yah, I remember you. You were supposed to take care of me when I went to DeVilbiss High School, you were supposed to take me through the grounds, but you didn't." She said, "I know, and I felt real bad about it." But people weren't gonna be babysitters to me.

TI: So the mother was trying to make it easier for you by having some of these...

TT: Yah.

TI: So when this woman, and you probably haven't, know maybe the details, but when she says guilty, do you ever know why she didn't take you around? Was there a sense... why didn't she?

TT: I don't know. She thought maybe she was being imposed on to take care of this Japanese... they didn't know what a Japanese girl was. There was nothing besides all Caucasians, no blacks, no Chinese, no nothing.

TI: So starting with the family, were there any surprises when you showed up? I mean, did they... were you what they expected, or what did they expect?

TT: Well, they knew that somebody was coming to help take care of the girls. And so the two year old girl and I are still real close, and I hear from her. And she comes to, she keeps in touch. And one year all of them came to see me. And here they're really tall -- this is about sixty years later that they came. And it was really something, and they wanted to know more about the camps and why I went to their house, because they didn't know anything. And they wanted to know how much, she said, "How much did my mother pay you to take care of us?" I said, "I think I got seven dollars a week," and they were just like that. So then they felt like they... "Did you feel like my mother was taking advantage of you?" I said, "No." I was very happy to get some kind of spending money in those days. But, see, their thoughts about it, the way they would think and what we went through were entirely different. And I don't even know... I think I took a bus to school, and it was an all-hakujin school.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

TI: So tell me about the reception at school. So you're the only non-white person, student there. How did the people treat you?

TT: Well, they treated me real well. The dean was real good, and she knew that I had family in the internment camp, and so she wanted to be sure I had a real nice homeroom teacher. And so she got Miss McHugh, and so she wanted, they kind of looked over me. And I didn't know they were doing all this, I just went to school just like everybody else. And Miss McHugh told me forty-five years later, she said, "I remember that day so well," because she said all the new students had to come and sit in the front of the class. And she says, "You were sitting there in a horseshoe, but you were just kind of like this because you didn't know what to do." So she says, "I went over to you, took you out in the hall," and asked to find out more about me. And I told her that the family was still in the internment camp, but I wanted to get out, "so I'm here." And she says everybody else was telling about all the things that they did, and all the families and everything else, but she kind of watched over me, and she and I became very close. And I saw her forty-five years after graduation.

TI: So when you think about this teacher, what does it mean to you that she really took care of you?

TT: Yah, well, I felt real good. And so that day, after I went back for the reunion, then that day afterwards, the next day, I went over to her, where she was, and spent the day with her. And she was so pleased, and she wrote me later and said that was the best thing that happened to her all year, to know that I took the time to come back and see her, and it made her feel good. So you know, I had real good connections with people, so that was nice. And she finally died.

TI: Now during your time at the school, it sounds like people are treating you really well. Were there ever any times when someone would single you out because you were Japanese and because of the war? Was that ever discussed?

TT: Well, they didn't know what I was. They didn't know whether I was Japanese, Chinese, Indian or what.

TI: So the students really didn't know?

TT: No, they didn't know and they didn't care. I was just a new student.

TI: But then when they saw your last name, Yokoyama, didn't they...

TT: Then they must have thought something, but nobody said anything to me. They didn't say, "Oh, are you a Jap?" or anything.

TI: Isn't that odd? I would think generally...

TT: People back east really didn't know what was going on.

TI: But I would think that if your school that's all white, and then a non-white comes, that someone, especially with a last name of Yokoyama, and you're fighting a war against Japan, that either they knew and were polite and didn't say anything...

TT: "What is she?"

TI: Or they would ask.

TT: No, nobody asked, nobody really tried to single me out. People would be real nice to me, the teachers were nice. My English teacher was the only one that wouldn't call me Tak. She says, "Your name is Takeeko." And so everybody in that class knew me as Takeeko. [Laughs]

TI: Did you develop any close friendships?

TT: Yah, but see, there were all kinds of class people. There were real high society people, and I got in with a lot of the friends that were just middle class that knew more about me. And they really treated me real well, and I got along with their families. And there was one family where the mother really took an interest in me and wanted me to come over all the time. So I had a lot of good friends being out there.

TI: And so did your friends know about your family being back in Idaho?

TT: Yah. You know, I would tell them. I wasn't ashamed of anything. I said I just didn't want to stay there and not go to school and get an education.

TI: And when you told them that, did they ever ask more questions?

TT: No, not really.

TI: Like, "Why are they there?"

TT: No. Well, they knew there was a war, because the war was still going on. Because that was 1943, I was there for two years, my junior and senior years.

TI: And so did you ever, in Toledo, ever have a discussion with anyone?

TT: Yah. Because the churches wanted to have people come and talk about the internment, and what do you say? I mean, we just, my sister and I would go to some of the meetings and just tell them what happened, and that we were in the internment camp and that was it.

TI: And did people ask questions then?

TT: Yah, they'd ask questions, and we'd answer.

TI: And what was the purpose of these...

TT: Well, they wanted people to know about it, what was going on in this world.

TI: And when people heard about that, you and your sister talking, what kind of reaction did people have?

TT: Well, they just listened, and they said, "You were really, and where's your parents?" and I would say, "Well, they're still there because they can't leave unless they have a place to go.

TI: And were the comments kind of along the lines that, "Well, that doesn't seem right," or anything like that?

TT: They were thinking that, but nobody ever really came out and said that. It was just the way the world was working, and the laws were that way. And we had to have a reason to leave. We got twenty-five dollars and bus fare to leave the camp. [Laughs]

TI: Yeah, what sort of surprises me a little bit, that people just weren't a little more curious.

TT: Yah, they weren't.

TI: That they would ask...

TT: It was just something that was happening. And like, you know, the kids asked, "Well, why did you do it?" and I said, "Because we were told to." "And why did you leave camp?" "Because I was tired of being there." That was just it, and I wasn't getting an education, so I figured I wanted to get outside and be in a regular school.

TI: Right, right.

<End Segment 16> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

TI: So this first year in Toledo, you're with this family with three kids.

TT: Three kids.

TI: So then explain what happens next.

TT: Well, so then I'd have to get up early and get them ready for, the little ones stayed at home, but then the other two had to go to their school, so I had to help them get dressed and feed them and everything, and then I would go to school. But I really don't remember how I went to school, if I walked there or if I took a bus or what. But I did attend school every day. And then I found a part-time job outside of school at the Boy Scouts of America working in the office. Got fifty cents an hour, but that was spending money.

TI: Well, and it paid a lot better than what you were getting at the house.

TT: Yah. Well, that just gave me a little bit extra.

TI: And how did the people at Boy Scouts, how did you get that job, Boy Scouts of America?

TT: Well, I just... you know, I went to the office to see if there was any kind of odd jobs that I could do. And they had all these things, so I said, oh, I could do that, and I could take a bus, probably buses only cost five cents or something. But I'd go there and work a few hours and then take a bus home.

TI: And at this place, did it ever come up, the fact that you were Japanese?

TT: Nobody ever really, nobody called me a "Jap."

TI: I keep looking for...

TT: I know.

TI: Not even calling you a "Jap," just kind of a...

TT: I was just different.

TI: ...just curious about it. Because I think of the Boy Scouts of America, it's almost like I think of them as being very patriotic. I'm just wondering if it ever came up, because the United States is at war with Japan, and you're of Japanese ancestry.

TT: Well, they really didn't know what my ancestry was, I guess. Nobody treated, I never felt like I was treated any differently.

TI: But I'm just thinking, with an application, and you look at Takeko Yokoyama, I mean, that seems pretty obvious.

TT: Yah, "What kind of name is this?" [Laughs]

TI: Especially with all the information about Japan, I would think there was an awareness of Japan and what Japanese names looked like. Okay. Well, so going back to this first family, it was a lot of work taking care of three kids, and I think you mentioned earlier that, before this interview we were chatting that, how the husband went off...

TT: He had to go in the service, he went into the navy. And so she was home, but she was the woman of the house, and she kind of relaxed. And she felt guilty afterward, she told me. But I would have to help and take care of the kids and do the dishes and help with the cooking and everything else. Then I'd do my homework after that. And so then when my sister found out that I was staying up real late doing my homework, she said, "You better get out of there and just live with the family where you could study and you could do all the other things." So after a year, I left.

TI: And when you told the mother that you were leaving, what was her reaction? Was she sad?

TT: My mother or her mother?

TI: The mother of the three children.

TT: Well, yah. Well, they wondered, and I explained to them that my sister feels like I need more time to study and do things like that, so that was fine. But it was the little girl that was two years old, she thought I was part of their family. And so she saw me one day and she says, "I wondered when you were gonna come home again." And so we've been real close, we're still close.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

TI: And so when you decided to leave the first family, then where did you go?

TT: Then my sister was a member of the Baptist church there, and some of the people had talked to her. And she found a family, it was just a man and a wife that wanted somebody just as a daughter just to come and live with them. So she told them about me and that I was going to be a senior, was that okay? And they said yes, they would love to have me there. And so I moved over there. And I was supposed to just help her, but the father was really nice, and he would get mad at her when I had to do more work than she was doing. She says, "You don't have to do all that," she says she can do that, "and she could help you." [Laughs]

TI: So it was a very different experience from the first family to the second family.

TT: It was.

TI: So that gave you more time.

TT: It gave me more time. And whenever they went anywhere, they wanted to take me with them. They'd go on vacation, they'd want to take me along, and I said, "No," I said, "I'd rather stay here." And I'd see my sister, because it would be our day off, and we'd do that.

TI: What kind of vacations would they go on? Where would they go?

TT: Maybe to another city or to a park or something like that. But they always wanted to include me.

TI: So was it kind of treating you almost like a daughter?

TT: Yah. And they were the ones that offered me a... I was a senior, he said, "Well, you're doing good in school." He said, "I want you to go to college." And I said, "No, I'm just anxious to get out of school." Says, "No," he says, "I'm going to send you through four years of college, you could stay here, there's nothing attached to it, and we'll give you allowance," and everything. I said, "No," I said, "I'm just anxious to get out of school."

TI: When you take a step back and think about that, that was an incredibly generous offer.

TT: Oh, yes.

TI: To pay for your college education...

TT: Give me my room and board.

TI: ...room and board, pay you an allowance. I think most people would jump at that opportunity.

TT: Oh, I know it.

TI: So it was just because you were tired of school?

TT: Yah. Because I didn't like to study, really. I liked what I knew and wanted to do, but I didn't want to feel like I had to go school to learn more.

TI: So what would you tell one of your grandchildren if someone offered them a full scholarship, room and board, plus a stipend?

TT: Take it. [Laughs]

TI: But why? What if they say, "Grandma, I don't like school?" What would you tell them?

TT: [Laughs] I don't know, I didn't get through that.

[Interruption]

TI: But going back to this offer given to you, any regrets?

TT: No. Because I loved to work, and every job I had, I'd work until I'd find more work to do. I'd do clerical work, I'd do... the first job was with AP Parts, it was a parts company that had... and I'd do the billing. And then I had taken secretarial work, so then I became a secretary too.

TI: But don't you think that the, a college degree, especially back during this time would have opened other doors for you that could have... yeah, I mean, enhanced your work experience? I'm not saying that you don't want to work, I get that you liked the work...

TT: I liked to work, learning things in the office and doing one thing after another.

TI: But you're very smart, you're very...

TT: Forward.

TI: ...forward, and that paired with a college education, do you ever think, oh, I wonder what it would have been like?

TT: No, I just enjoyed doing all the jobs in the office.

TI: You didn't want to run businesses?

TT: Well, I was becoming the manager of the offices I worked in, and people would come to me to find out about things. And even when I got into the brokerage business, a lot of things that happened then happened a long time ago. So they'd always, other people would say, "Go ask Tak, she's the only one that knows anything about the..."

TI: Well, let me ask you this question: did not having a college education ever, did you ever feel limited?

TT: No.

TI: So it never mattered is what you're saying.

TT: No. Because I was so aggressive and nosy. And then I had the secretarial background. So when this one smaller brokerage firm needed somebody, they asked around and they said, "Oh, you should get Tak, because she knows everything about the internal business about it, and she's also a secretary." So I went to John R. Lewis, it was a smaller company, and I went there as a secretary first. But anytime they had any kind of problems with the office, then they'd come to me about it.

TI: Okay.

TT: And then he said, "If you come to work for me, I'm going into that Seafirst building, we're going to have an office on the fortieth floor, you'll have an office overlooking the south end." And then on top of that...

TI: So Mt. Rainier, you could see Mt. Rainier?

TT: Oh, I saw everything. And the Kingdome was trying to go up at that time. But I used to be there, and I'd be there early in the morning, and I'd do anything and everything there. And then I became his secretary, and then his wife needed help, so then I'd help Mrs. Lewis with any problems that she had.

TI: Okay, but let's go back to Toledo. And when you turned down this offer of a college scholarship, what was the reaction of the couple?

TT: Oh, they said, "Nobody would refuse a job for four years of college of room and board." I says, "I know, but," I says, "I don't like to study and I'm happy doing what I'm doing." And I said, "I like to go to work and solve problems at work. I'm satisfied with my life." My mother had a fit.

TI: Yeah, I was going to ask, so your mother, what did she...

TT: Oh, she said, "Bakatare da ne," nobody would refuse that, because they knew that otherwise I wouldn't be able to go to college.

TI: How about your sisters? Did they understand your decision?

TT: Well, they just kind of left me alone. Because my sister went to business school, and the other one just worked in offices. But I said, "I'm happy doing..." and I was nosy enough in all the jobs that I did that I wanted to learn more about what was going on.

TI: So when you started work in Toledo, did you stay, did you continue living with this couple?

TT: Yah, until I left. I worked for Willys-Overland, the jeep company, I was a secretary there. But he would only give me about six letters a day, and I'd be through by noon. And I said, "Okay, give me something else to do." He says, "Well, I don't have anything else." He says, "Don't you have letters to write to your friends in the internment camp?" I said, "I write to them right away, and they say I write too fast." [Laughs] So then I finally quit there.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

TI: So how long after you graduated high school, how long did you stay in Toledo?

TT: A year.

TI: Okay, so about a year, and then where did you go?

TT: I came back to Seattle.

TI: So the war had ended and you're now back in Seattle. So what do you do when you're back in Seattle?

TT: Well, see, then I went to the employment agency and everybody said, "Well, they're not hiring any Japanese." And I says, "I don't care," they said, "You'll have to be a schoolgirl or do some of..." I said, "Not me, I'm going to get a job in the office." So then I used to run a Burroughs bookkeeping machine, so I went down to the Burroughs company and I says, "I need a job. I've been experienced running a Burroughs bookkeeping machine, and you must have some companies that have your machine someplace in Seattle." And I said, "I need a job." And the man there that was, he says, "Yah, we have a standing order from a company that says if anybody comes looking for a job, they want to see them first. So I said, "Well, send me there." So they sent me there, and I'm talking to the man, he says, "Well, how do I know you could do it?" And I said, "Well, how are you gonna know if you don't hire me?" I said, "I could prove myself, I am a good worker, and I am nosy enough to learn more about the job." So he says, "Okay, you're hired."

TI: And how about the fact that you were Japanese? You said no one was hiring Japanese at this point. Did that ever come up in the conversation?

TT: No. After that, he says, well, he told me he never hired... I said, "Well, if you don't hire me, how are you gonna know?"

TI: But he had never hired Japanese before, so you were the first one there?

TT: Yah.

TI: And what company did this end up being?

TT: This was Crane company, the plumbing on Second and (King Street) right down there.

TI: Okay, so you worked there. Tell me about what was going on with the Japanese American community at this time.

TT: Well, most people were looking for jobs and they would grab any kind of job they had. But nobody could get a job in an office like I had. Maybe secretary, but I was working for Crane company, and I learned every job in the back office. Because as soon as I'd run out of work, I'd ask for more.

TI: So you would just keep volunteering to learn more and more.

TT: Yah. And then I told them I was a secretary, so I used to take letters and do that.

TI: You know, when you come back to Seattle, what was your old neighborhood like? When you think about the Japanese language school, Eighteenth and Weller, where lots of Japanese families were, after the war, what was that like?

TT: Well, my folks, my mother was back, they were here about a year before I came home. So they were getting along.

TI: Were they back in the same old house?

TT: No. They didn't own the house, they were renting, so then they found another house to rent.

TI: And the Japanese language school at this point was being used as a hostel. So did she teach someplace else?

TT: No. What she did is she worked at, you know Cabrini Hospital up there on Pill Hill? She used to walk there from Eighteenth and King Street to go to work, and she used to walk all the way up there. And you know, I really gave her a lot of credit, she said she needed a job and that was the only way she could do it. And so she worked there as a maid or whatever.

TI: So and I'm just wondering, do you know if they still had Japanese language school right after the war?

TT: They didn't have it.

TI: Yeah, I'm trying to think how that worked.

TT: I don't even know when they started.

TI: And then how about your father? What did he do?

TT: Then he... well, they needed somebody at the laundry, so he just became a laundry truck driver.

TI: Okay, so he got essentially his old job back. And your younger sister, was she going to school then?

TT: Yah. And my other sisters were gone by then. My one sister went to Chicago and she worked back there.

TI: Okay. And then you are at Crane company. How long did you work at Crane company?

TT: I worked there for about five years, and then I got married and I had a child. But as soon as I had the child, I think after so many months, they said, "Well, can you come back to work?" And so I tried to go to work.

TI: Back at the Crane company?

TT: Yah. Because it was close enough, because we lived up there, I could just take a bus down. My father used to work nights as a... oh, that's what he did. He worked nights at the White-Henry-Stuart Building cleaning. And so he'd come home and he'd wait for me and take me to work in the morning.

TI: Wow, so he'd work all night?

TT: Yah, he worked the night shift cleaning up the offices. So he'd take me to work and drop me off down there.

TI: At the Crane company.

TT: Yah.

TI: Okay, and then he would go home and go to sleep or something.

TT: And he would, I mean, he would go back, too, yah. And then I'd take a bus home.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

TT: And then I'd get job offer, and then I went to San Francisco. And so that's where my daughter resents the fact that I took her out of school here and took her down there.

TI: Wow, what kind of job would, or what kind of company would offer you a job in San Francisco?

TT: That was another big brokerage. See, I was working for Foster & Marshall at that time, learning the back office, and they were our correspondents for anything that we did on the San Francisco exchange. So I was talking to them a lot if there were any problems, and I'd solve 'em, and I said, "Well, look up this and look up that." But in the meantime, I also learned the dividend department, I learned the annual reports, I learned everything in that office. And so they were looking for someone --

TI: So they recognized your talent.

TT: Yah, so they wanted me to come down there and work, so I said okay, so I took my daughter and we moved down there.

TI: I'm curious, when the company from San Francisco makes an offer, why didn't Foster & Marshall match that? Why didn't they say, "Tak, we need you here"?

TT: Well, they did. They wanted me to stay there, but I said, "No." They were a bigger company, they were a corporation, and they don't have anybody that knows anything about dividends or annual reports or anything. And I says, "I know all of those things and they realize that, so they want me to come."

TI: So it was an opportunity for you.

TT: Yah.

TI: So how long did you stay in San Francisco?

TT: In San Francisco, I don't know. I was there for years. And when I was working for Schwabacher, one year I was doing the proxies and the annual report. And so you know how... it's not like now, but the securities would come to my office, and if it was a new security or a dividend on something, they'd leave it all on my desk. I took a couple weeks off, when I came back, I had told the boss --

TI: Just get a bigger pile? [Laughs]

TT: Yah, I told the boss, I said, "Okay, I'm doing all that work by myself, I need help." And he says, "Well, we'll get you help, don't worry." And I says, "Okay, I'm going on vacation, and in two weeks, when I come back, I don't want all that stuff on my desk." I'm a nikurashii, young Nisei. [Laughs] When I came back, my desk was overloaded with securities, and nobody was opening the envelopes. So, you know, when companies had splits and everything, the certificates, in those days, they didn't have the clearinghouse, they had everything coming to the name of the brokerage firm. And I'd have to take it, find out how many shares, what the record date was, and then divide it up to whoever was the stockbroker.

TI: How interesting. It astounds me that a company would be so dependent on one person.

TT: Yah.

TI: I mean, it's good from your perspective, but from a company's perspective, if you left or something, it would put them in a real difficult spot.

TT: Well, that's it. So, see, then when I came back and saw all that, I went to the manager and I said, "Well," I said, "it's been nice working for you, but I'm gone." He says, "What?" and I said, "I told you two weeks ago if nobody touches my desk, I'm leaving." And so then with the brokerage firm, I'm talking to all the other companies, because we had to get stock from them, or they claim us, so I knew all the connections. I had five offers from all these companies. And so I went back to him, then one day, Mr. Schwabacher, he was going on vacation, he's going around the office saying goodbye to people. And he came to my desk, he says, "I'm only going to be gone a couple weeks." And I said, "I don't care about you, I'm leaving the company." And he says, "What?" He says, "I didn't know that." I said, "That's the trouble with the head office." I said, "You guys don't know anything about what's going on in the (back) office." And I said, "I've complained about not having any help. For all these years I told them I was going on vacation, and if they didn't get somebody to help me, I'm gone." He just blew up, went downstairs and talked to my manager. And he came back and he says, "You've got to stay here. We're gonna give you a raise, we're gonna get you help." I said, "Okay, we'll try it for a little while." I had five offers from different firms.

TI: Interesting.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

TI: Well, and eventually, so you stayed in the securities business for a while, and you went, you transitioned from the back office to become a broker.

TT: Yah. (I stayed in San Francisco for a while, then I married and moved to Vashon and worked for Foster & Marshall.)

TI: Why did you want to make the shift? I mean, you're doing so well...

TT: I'm doing so well and everybody was counting on me.

TI: Right. And you were, probably from a company standpoint, more valuable running the back office.

TT: And so they didn't want me to become a broker. But then this other broker, you saw that other article, he says, "You're stupid." He says, "You know more about this business than any of the people that are selling." And he said, "You should get out of there and sell."

TI: Because you'll make more money?

TT: Yah. And I said, "No, I'm happy doing the back office work." I said, "I enjoy this kind of work, it's challenging." And he said, "Yah, but you'll have more money if you become a broker." And then, because I was even helping the other customers of the brokers.

TI: So you were essentially playing the broker role already?

TT: Yah, but not getting paid for it.

TI: And so that made sense to you? Because in some ways, something I've learned doing this interview is once you make up your mind, that's hard to change. And for... something about what this man said to you made you go from something that you were really good at and had no intention of leaving, to do something very different. And I'm curious, how did he do that?

TT: He said, "Well, you'll be making more money." I said, "Yah," but I says, "I'd be scared to do that." I said, "Where am I gonna get the clients, I have to get clients and I have to do all that prospecting and everything." But it was really amazing. When people found out that I was going to become a broker...

TI: People switched over?

TT: Yah. They would ask the broker something, they said, "Well, you have to ask Tak," and they'd come to me. I said, "I can't help you, I have my own accounts now, so I could only help you..." So they'd go to the management and say, "Can I move my account from that person to Tak?" So I got a good reputation that if they needed any problems solved, that they had to come to me.

TI: And when you did that, did the back office, they find someone who could handle everything?

TT: Well, I was doing both for a while. And then finally the boss, the big boss said, "You've got to make up your mind." Because I was signing checks, I was doing all that. He says, "You have to decide one way or the other." I said, "I think I'll become a broker," so that's when I became a broker.

TI: And they had to find someone else?

TT: Yes.

TI: Okay. Oh, interesting, that's a good story.

TT: Yes. [Laughs] [Narr. note: After I got married and moved to Vashon Island, I worked in the back office of Foster & Marshall and a couple of other companies. Then when I worked for Wedbush Securities I was convinced that I should be a broker. I started as a broker at the age of fifty and worked until I retired at age seventy-four.]

TI: At this point I've gone through all the questions, but I just wanted to just ask a few questions in terms of kind of reflecting upon your life. And one was, that comes to mind as I interview you, you're such a strong woman, what difficulties or challenges did you have by being so strong?

TT: I don't know, I was just myself.

[Interruption]

TI: Well, so, Tak, thank you so much for the interview.

TT: Well, thank you for letting me say all these without being hazukashii about it.

TI: No, this was fun, I learned a lot.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.