<Begin Segment 12>

TI: Okay. So after the questionnaires have been, people go through the process, they decide how to answer it, and then they were all turned it, then what happened?

KG: Well, then those who were, said "yes-yes," they would transfer to the other camp, and from the other camps came those who were saying they're gonna go to Japan. And after the switch was made, then Tule Lake was just a completely different place. I mean, we had all the radical elements who were extremely vocal. And you can't reason with people who are radically inclined. And so it really became very dangerous, because they really ruled the roost, they just took over completely.

TI: And we'll talk more about that, but going back to your block, for instance, like how many people, when they were transferring out, how many of the families left? Did very many families leave?

KG: Oh, yeah.

TI: Like about what percentage, roughly?

KG: Oh, I have no idea.

TI: Like most of them? I'm just trying to get a sense of that shift in terms of how many left, how many people came in from your perspective?

KG: I guess more than fifty percent left, because it seemed that many new people came in.

TI: And so I'm guessing that some of your friends left?

KG: Oh, yeah.

TI: And how was that for you to see your friends leave?

KG: That was really hard, because my friends who were left, had left to go to school and all, and there I sat, and that was really hard.

TI: Now at this point, you mentioned earlier that it was harder for women to leave. But you had graduated from high school, you were a good student, did you ever consider going to college?

KG: Oh, yeah. See, that's what upset me, my friends who had left had gone on to college, and there I sat. And I was planning to go on to school, and I couldn't do anything.

TI: And what prevented you at this point from going to school?

KG: Well, I couldn't leave my family. I had to more or less take care of my parents, you know, because I was the oldest one there at that time. Well, I couldn't go out on my own anyway.

TI: Okay, so you felt sort of obligated to...

KG: Well, I couldn't go to school. I mean, I had no way to finance myself or anything of that sort, so I was stuck.

TI: And so now... going back to when they're transferring families out and other families are coming in, from a... did you notice anything from a security standpoint that was changing? Like changes to the fences or the guards or number of guards, anything that you noticed?

KG: Well, the block that I was in was on the end, so the first thing I saw when we left the door was the barbed wire fence and the towerhouse and the guards. The block just happened to be on the outside part. As far as gates, the Caucasian staff was surrounded by a barbed wire fence. The idea is that if we ever got out, there was a second one that protected the Caucasians. There were two... they were in a separate area.

TI: And so I'm wondering, though, when they decided to make Tule Lake the segregation camp, did they change any of that?

KG: No, I don't think so. I mean... well, there was more security in terms of more, seemed like more guards in the camp than before.

TI: Okay, so perhaps more guards.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2015 Densho. All Rights Reserved.