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LT: On January 28, 1942, Gordon was studying with some of his friends, and there was --

ED: He was sentenced?

LT: Studying. Studying. He was at the library.

ED: Yeah...

LT: Studying with his friends. And at that time, there was a curfew that required that all those of Japanese descent be at home at eight o'clock. And on the evening of January 28, in 1942, Gordon decided not to obey the curfew.

ED: To disobey it.

LT: Right. What do you remember about that and how did you learn about it?

ED: How did I learn about it? I thought that was the occasion where he drove me home after... not after school, because school was still open, but he did invite me to drive home, he would drive me home. And I didn't click on what actually was involved, or what was the serious matter of his doing that, so I was a little dumb. But he went back to school, didn't go home, and I don't remember where his comrades scolded him or not, they might well have, because they had worked real hard to get him to follow the curfew. So when it was obvious that he had broken it, they might well have been angry with him. And these were not... these were not... these were... what were they? Caucasian or not Caucasian? They probably were not Caucasian kids -- they were Caucasian kids, I take it back. Because they would have been studying there at the campus. But apparently that didn't bother Gordy very much.

LT: So you're saying he was studying with his friends, he left so that he could take you home?

ED: No, I don't think... the taking home just came sort of incidentally, I think. He decided to break the curfew, and I think his, whether he happened to see me on campus and say he'd drive me home, I don't know how that worked, but I don't think it was an important part of the choice.

LT: But you did say that Gordon frequently drove you home from school.

ED: Did I say frequently? I don't know, he drove me home occasionally.

LT: And how far was it from the University of Washington campus?

ED: Three miles, not more than that.

LT: So what did you think when you learned that...

ED: Well, the trouble is I didn't think. If I had thought about it, I would have realized the implication of his act, but I didn't think about it. So I was involved. [Laughs]

LT: When did you hear about the fact that he...

ED: Probably the next day. Because I think these kids, his friends at school would have said, "Gordon," and really gave me a bit of problem.

LT: And were you able to talk to him --

ED: What?

LT: Were you able to talk to Gordon about that?

ED: Did I? I suppose so, but I don't remember it. I mean, he got pretty thoroughly talked to, I'm sure, by his friends at the Y, and maybe the adults at the Y as well.

LT: What do you think they said to him?

ED: What?

LT: What do you think they said to him?

ED: Oh, I don't know. I'm not going to speculate about that.

LT: But your parents were also worried, weren't they?

ED: Who?

LT: Your parents.

ED: Oh, I'm sure they were.

LT: And what did they say and what did they do?

ED: What?

LT: What did they say and what did they do?

ED: Oh, now that I don't know. Haven't any idea.

LT: But you did mention that your parents were protective of Gordon?

ED: Uh-huh, concerned about him.

LT: And how did they get to know Gordon and what kind of interaction did they have with Gordon?

ED: I suppose they would have got to know Gordon through me, and maybe things at the Y, one or the other or both.

LT: Did he come to your house?

ED: He could have. I doubt that Gordy did very often, I think he was pretty busy. But if a group came, he could have come with them.

LT: You mentioned that his friends at college were protective of him. Do you know particular actions they took?

ED: No, I don't think I do. They could have scolded him. [Laughs] And they certainly were trying to get him not to... when he was going to leave, they tried to persuade him not to, and that happened more than once, I'm sure.

LT: And this is speculation, but because you knew Gordon so well, how do you think he came to decide that he was not going to follow the curfew? What was it that he --

ED: I don't know that I ever did. I can't recall. We may have talked about it at lunch hour or something like that, not otherwise.

LT: Well, you had a good friendship with Gordon Hirabayashi. Were there any consequences for you --

ED: Because of that?

LT: -- for being a friend, were there any consequences for you for being a friend?

ED: I don't know of them if there were. We were all part of the Christian YMCA organization, and I don't think people would have, would have felt called upon to say anything. And most of them would have been supportive of Gordon in a way. They knew him as a friend already, I think.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.