Densho Digital Archive
Densho Visual History Collection
Title: Eiichi Yamashita Interview II
Narrator: Eiichi Yamashita
Interviewer: Tom Ikeda
Location: Seattle, Washington
Date: October 8, 2014
Densho ID: denshovh-yeiichi-02

<Begin Segment 1>

TI: And so the first question is, Sunday, December 7, 1941, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. Do you remember where you were when you heard?

EY: Oh, yes, I distinctly remember. We had, the previous day, we had, I picked up some oyster seed that was prepared out in Hood Canal. And so we had those oyster seed brought over, and we had the seed on the barge, but the set on the shells were so heavy that we felt that it had to be broken up. And so with my father's idea, you know, like a paper cutter, you have it hinged, and you have a long part, and the blade on there. [Clears throat] Excuse me. And so we decided to cut it up, because if it's too crowded, why, then they don't grow well. So we were putting it and cutting it. And it took us quite a long time. So it was getting dark when we got into shore, and went up to where my mother had a small restaurant. And when we went up there, we were told about the start of the war. And we just didn't know what to do, but we just, at that point, we decided there wasn't anything we can do. So we decided, well, we'd just call it a day, and we relaxed. Well...

TI: Eiichi? So did your father say anything? Did you remember him, like a reaction, or was he surprised?

EY: No, my father really, he was out there with us, you know, on the barge. And so it was kind of a surprise to him, too. And we had, I think, one or two employees around, but he was attending to the small oyster stand that we had where we would service the customer that came around to buy some oysters in the shell or in the jars. And he, too, was surprised because it was his customers that came around and told him about the happening of the war. And so... well, for that night, why, we just closed the shop and worried about things that we might have to do, because we didn't know what we were going to do. But... so we retired for the night. The next day, I think it was the next day, there was a Caucasian old man and an old woman that came around, and he said, "I've come to see Mr. Yamashita." So we took him and her to my father, and they had the opportunity to talk. It appears that the man and the woman was a team of FBI agents. And he said, "Mr. Yamashita, we've been looking for you high and low for quite a while." But maybe it was the next day that...

TI: Yeah, I think when you told me the story earlier, there was, like weeks after Pearl Harbor that they came.

EY: Maybe.

TI: Yeah, so I think they were looking for him ever since Pearl Harbor, and it was like a couple months or several months they had looked for him. That right away there was nothing from the FBI until later.

EY: And so he said, I guess he talked to my father and wanted to look at some documents, but he didn't have anything. He didn't have anything, because all his documents were either at Pier 9 or at the Smith Tower where he shared an office with Thomas Matsuda. My father helped Tom with Japanese correspondence, and so Tom helped my father with legal matters, and it was a good combination of helping each other. But surprisingly, Tom was arrested by the FBI even before my father. And so my father wasn't able to talk to him to make any kind of decision, and it created kind of a hardship for him.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

TI: So let me make sure I understand. So your father had shared an office with Thomas Matsuda at the Smith Tower.

EY: He shared an office and secretary in the Smith Tower.

TI: But you also mentioned Pier 9. So tell me about Pier 9, what was there?

EY: Well, my father and Tom's sharing of the office at Smith Tower was something that was ongoing. But when the importing and exporting business, because of the fear of war and the United States' action against trading, my father needed something else to do, because you can't do any oystering in the Smith Tower office building. So he seeked out a man by the name of... kind of slipped my mind. But do you remember George Cosmos? He was a bowler, and he had a concession or serving food at the bowling alley. But at the same time, he had an operation at Pier 9 where he hired some Japanese people and some, there was a Norwegian fellow, too, shucking oysters.

TI: So who owned this? Was it George who owned this, or your father owned the Pier 9 operation?

EY: Pier 9 operation was George Cosmos, and I think he had another partner.

TI: I see. And he hired Japanese to shuck oysters?

EY: And so some of these Japanese said... and there was a Norwegian fellow that could shuck oysters. And so my father felt that it was very convenient and appropriate for him to assume the assume the oyster shucking operation there. So he proceeded to prepare things. Then a problem, first problem came up, and that was a teamsters agent came by and said, "Gosh, if you're going to have a truck, you need to hire a teamsters driver." Well, for shucking, oyster shucking operation, to hire a teamsters driver, it was not possible, you know, because teamsters are very expensive. And so they kind of struggled. But the agent happened to be, happened to have gotten himself involved in an auto accident. And he person that was in the party was a member of the teamsters. And so therefore he owed... and the agent, it was that agent's fault for the accident happening. And so he just was not very much, very willing to release my father and say, well, "You can go ahead and do it," he needed somebody that he can catch and squeeze the money out of him.

TI: I see. So he was kind of like in debt to the teamsters, and so that's why he pushed your father harder because of that.

EY: And for my father, it would be impossible to operate an oyster operation with a teamster driver. So that turned into a failure. And so they didn't go any farther with that.

TI: But yet he still had an office at Pier 9, though.

EY: Yes. The office was upstairs, there was a small office space upstairs. And so he needed to store some of these things from the Smith Tower as well as anything that he had then. Well, I didn't know, my mother didn't know, my father didn't know, that the piers on the Seattle waterfront was a restricted area. We didn't know. We were ninety miles away from Pier 9 at Samish Bay, but we did know that we'd had a restriction of the distance, so we were running back and forth.

TI: So to make sure I understand, so Pier 9, so after the war started, the piers were kind of a restricted area?

EY: That was restricted area.

TI: And also you lived in Samish Bay, which was ninety miles away. And so during the curfew, you weren't supposed to go more than, what, like five miles from your home.

EY: My mother and I was running back and forth. [Laughs]

TI: So why were you going back and forth from Samish Bay to Pier 9? Why did you go to Pier 9?

EY: Well, we had concerns. My father, his business was selling oyster seed. And a lot of the people, probably new people, wanted to know, and wanted my father to go and look at the beds to see if the ground was appropriate for planting oyster seed. So his office was full of charts from Alaska to San Diego. And we felt that if the FBI agent should see all of that, why, it was a sure bet that they were going to take my father away, and we didn't want that to happen. So we went down there, over to Pier 9, and looked, and gosh, everywhere we looked was all sounding charts. We didn't know what to do, but we decided, well, if we have to destroy it, we have to destroy it. So we started tearing up all the charts. Well, we had a neighbor, an artist next door, and we were making so much noise that he opened the door and stuck his head in. And our heart jumped, you know, and we said, "This is hopeless. There isn't anything we can do about it." So we, "Well, let's lock up and go home." And so that's what we did. We locked up and went home and we worried about what to do. But the team of FBI agents and elderly woman and an elderly gentleman came and told my father, he said, "I've come to see you, and then I'd like to look at some documents," we have. And also, "We've been looking for you for quite a long time."

TI: So did the FBI agents know about sounding charts back at Pier 9?

EY: They didn't know anything about Pier 9.

TI: So they never did find those, then.

EY: Nobody ever found it. And I called up the owner of the pier, Mrs. Ward of Virginia Dock & Trading Company. She had a stern wheeler that was running between Seattle and, I think, Vancouver. And she was bringing down paper pulp, newspaper material I think it was. And so, you know, our situation was that we had no business, so it was my job to call up Mrs. Ward and say, "Mrs. Ward, you know, because of this war situation, we're in a terrible situation. We can't pay you the rental. So instead of the, for the rental, could you take the furniture, the desks, rugs and whatever it is that is available?" And she said sure. She was a very nice lady, and so she agreed to that. But when we came back, she was on the phone and asked us, "Would you like to have some of those things back?"

TI: Oh, so after the war?

EY: After the war. And how she knew, I don't know, but she called me, got the phone number, and called me.

TI: And do you think she was the one maybe who cleaned up all the charts and everything?

EY: She did clean up everything for us. I told her, and she said, "Oh, we will take care of it."

TI: So she really helped you a lot.

EY: She was a nice lady. Not only in help, but she was a real nice lady. You know, around Seattle, the stern wheeler, remember those, stern wheeler? That was her boat, I guess. And that's what she was using to haul the newsprint between here and, I think it was Vancouver.

TI: Good, interesting story.

EY: Virginia Dock & Trading Company.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: So going back to Samish Bay, after the two FBI agents talked to your father, what happened next?

EY: The next thing that happened was maybe two or three days later, there were about five younger FBI agents who came over and asked the same thing of my father, wanted to know, see some of the documents. And so my father did that, but he didn't have much of anything there. and so when I... while my father was talking with some of the agents, I walked down the hills. The house was down at the bottom, and the restaurant was up on top, and there was a foot trail. Nothing that was suitable for an automobile, but it was something that we walked back and forth. And when I went down, he came right out and said, "Your father's going to have to come with us." And so he, I guess he went with my father, my father went with them and he was taken over to the immigration station.

TI: Now, did the FBI agents ever question you?

EY: No, he never did ask me anything. He was only interested in talking to my father.

TI: Because it would have been interesting, because they may have then asked you about Pier 9 and all that.

EY: No, never did. So it never came up.

TI: Okay. And so they then took your father into Seattle at the immigration building?

EY: Hmm?

TI: Did you ever visit your father at the immigration building?

EY: Oh, yes, we did. We did. We went down there the next day, and there was a nice agent there that talked to my mother and let her talk with him. So it was not unreasonable, but a lot of the people there, there were many other Japanese people there, and said, "Oh, that man's no good, or that one's okay." [Laughs] They all had an opinion about them.

TI: During this time, how was your mother? Was she worried?

EY: Oh, very much so, very much.

TI: So tell me, how did you know she was worried?

EY: Hmm?

TI: How did you know she was worried? Did she say anything?

EY: Oh, she was, yeah. And she was concerned about food, concerned about clothes, and we didn't have... even then, we didn't have any knowledge about the restriction of travel, so we were running back and forth. Nobody ever caught us.

TI: So how did the family survive with your father gone? How did you make money?

EY: Well, my mother had a small restaurant, and it had a small oyster stand where people came and purchased the oysters. So we survived.

TI: So did the, your neighbors, the white people, did they ever say anything to you about being Japanese? Like did your business go down because of the war?

EY: The people... there was a man that was trying to sell us a refrigerator and a shortwave radio. And so it was all right, she had, for a trial, you know, she had those things. But the next day, he came back, he wasn't trying to sell anything, he wanted to take everything back with him. And so he came and picked up the radio and picked up the refrigerator and that was it. But I don't remember anything very serious. I think the worst one was the, one of our neighbors that had a competitive business, and so he wasn't very kind. The other people that we dealt with in business, we had no problem. The only one was when I was harvesting oysters in the, out in the bay with a lantern, the soldiers were patrolling along the Chuckanut. And so when they saw me out there with a light, they came down the hill like this, you know, and called on me and said, "Come on ashore. What are you doing out there?" And so I said, "Oh, I'm just harvesting some oysters," and I don't remember what they told me, but I don't think I had any problem that day. But along the Chuckanut, there were gun emplacements with nets over it, you know. And the patrols were going by there, military patrols were going by there, oh, every thirty minutes or so. And I think about that time, I wasn't going to school anymore. My father said... my father said, my father was an office person, you know, and he made a living talking rather than working, or physical labor, you know. So I guess there was less for him to do.

TI: But I'm curious, for the oyster business, you need to keep replenishing like seeds and things. So when you had to, when your father left and that you would have to leave, too, who would take care of that for you? How did that work?

EY: Well, the seed, as far as the seed business was concerned, he was expecting some seed to arrive, but it didn't. There was an agent for Mitsui company in San Francisco, and he took over. And even after the war, it was easiest for the government, the military to... there was really a great demand for oyster seed, you know, because people didn't get all the seeds they needed. And so the people were pleading with the army to get the seed over here. And so everything in the old channel, went to the old channel. In other words, the last shipment from Japan was handled by Mitsui, their agent was in San Francisco, a Japanese person. And so those things, it was the easiest for the military to just approach them, and then they can get things done.

TI: Right. But earlier you talked about the seed that came from Hood Canal. So whatever happened to that operation? Because you were developing your own seed.

EY: We were able to be in there. But that was the first and second experience. The first experience for us, you know. And so in spite of the fact that my father was able to explain things to his local customer, it was, he didn't really say that it was something that he was well-versed on.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: Now, for you, pretty soon your family had to leave Samish Bay, because all the Japanese had to leave. So how did you, what did you do to get ready to leave?

EY: What we had left on the beds over in Samish Bay, we made arrangements with our neighbor, Rockpoint Oyster Company, and they harvested the oysters and paid us for the gallons that they had gotten. And so we didn't have anything to worry about that until we got back, and of course, the seed that we had, our friends were over on the island, over on Samish Island, whom my father had explained the procedure as to how to prepare and cultch for oyster seed. So they prepared themselves with the cultch material and prepared for summer spawning season. And at the same time, they said they would cultch for us, whatever strings we had prepared, and they will get the seed and plant the seed on their own ground, so that when we come back, we'll have some oysters to draw from.

TI: So from your story, your neighbors were very helpful. I mean, the Rockpoint Oyster Company harvested for you and then they paid you for it, and your neighbors were keeping seed for you. So they were really helpful during this time.

EY: So what?

TI: So they were very helpful to you and your family.

EY: Oh, yes. Yeah, everybody was very kind, you know. And they were not against us.

TI: So this is not always the case. When I've interviewed other farmers and other people, oftentimes their competitors would take advantage.

EY: That's right, they'd take advantage.

TI: But it didn't happen with your family.

EY: Well, I think it was the fact that my father was willing to explain to them what to do so that during our absence, they can still do things and maybe get some seed and get local seed and continue on.

TI: So when you had to leave, though, what happened to the restaurant, the house, and the beds? What happened to all that?

EY: One of our friends, Lorne Hower is one of the fellows that did a lot of oyster harvesting for a lot of the local people. The thing that my father did was he went to the streetcar drivers, and he said, "For retirement, buy some oyster land and plant some seed, then you'll have something for your retirement income." And so some of the people did that. And this fellow Lorne Hower, to whom he sold the restaurant building, he was doing some of that, too, for people. And when you do that, you know, they are dependent on each other. And so they have a very good friendly relationship, and so people don't try to hurt each other, they try to help each other. And so we had a fairly good relationship with people in the area. And so I don't think we had anybody that was trying to take advantage of us. But, you know, we were very fortunate, though, that the oysters, we didn't have very much oysters that we could get after the war.

TI: Okay, I'll get to that later, but let's talk about, now you had to leave Samish Bay. Where did the family have to go? Do you remember, I think you went to, like, Pinedale?

EY: Oh, no, we, from Samish Bay, the thing that happened was they had a train that started out around Lynden, the northern border. And the families around Lynden entrained there. And then the train went down to Bellingham and picked up people around Bellingham. And then from there, the train went down to Burlington. They picked those of us on the Chuckanut, around Burlington, Burlington had Japanese laundry, a photographer, and strawberry people, you know, there's a Sakuma strawberry, there was a Takagi photography, laundry, surprising how many there were. And then there was some, Ozaki down a ways had a dairy farm.

TI: And so at Burlington, how many Japanese were there waiting for the train?

EY: One, two, three... we went there, we boarded from Burlington, so one, two, three, four, five, maybe half a dozen families.

TI: So maybe about, what, maybe twenty, twenty-five people?

EY: I'm sure there were that many, yeah. There were the Shimadas, Ozaki, Takagi, Akita.

TI: And describe that day. Were there other people watching as you guys went on the train?

EY: Watching what?

TI: Yeah, watching the Japanese. Were there, like, other people, like white people watching? Or who else was at the train station? When you had to leave, describe that day. How many people were there, what was the mood and were people talking?

EY: You know, there was one restaurant that was pretty bad. But other than that, I don't know of any. My sister was a second or third grader, and she always talked about a Quaker girl who gave her a coloring book. And we gave her our dog and cat, and she always talked about that nice Quaker girl that gave her the coloring book. But I don't know of any other, no others. But, of course, dogs and cats, you know, they follow the master, until they just wandered off and disappeared.

TI: So the train picked you up at Burlington, where did it go next?

EY: Where did we go? We went directly to Tule Lake. We didn't go anyplace else, we went to Tule Lake.

TI: Oh, so most people went to Pinedale. So you went directly to Tule Lake. So Tule Lake was already...

EY: It was in June. We stayed home until June, and then we went directly to Tule Lake.

TI: So you were a later pickup then? June was, most people got picked up much earlier.

EY: Well, we were, so we were there for half a year.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: And so when you got to Tule Lake, tell me what that was like. What was Tule Lake like?

EY: Tule Lake? Well, I think we were one of the early ones, early volunteers were there, but we were right after that. And it was a new experience, we didn't know whether it was good or bad or in between. But we did find, we did find that we had time to get used to the conditions or situations there. And it was a new experience as it was for everybody else.

TI: So at Tule Lake, did you have a job?

EY: I was a fireman. Fireman, you know, you work a twenty-four hour shift. And so in a week, we'd just work a couple days, we'd sleep and eat. And so we were there, early ones, we were able to get something like that.

TI: And did you ever have a fire to fight?

EY: During my stay was just one fire that we went to, and that was, the chicken farm had a brooder, and that's what burned.

TI: And so tell me how that worked. Were you guys trained to fight a fire?

EY: Yeah, we had some kind of training, but the training wasn't much of anything special.

TI: And so what did you do all day? When you were firemen, you had to be there for twenty-four hours for a couple days. What type of things did you do?

EY: Well, we had first aid instruction. So we had a girl by the name of Ruby that was teaching us first aid. And everybody... well, they didn't have much of anything to do besides that, you know, and so we had a lot of time. But... so they planned some things and they, so they gave me the honor of asking Ruby, our first aid instructor, for a dance date, you know. And I was green as green can be, and I didn't know what to do. But anyway, that was the appointment. So our driver escorted us to it. But the most embarrassing part of it was that I asked her, and that was okay, but that was it. Because I wasn't much at dancing, so... and so I invited a reputation of being green, green, green, and so the next day, everybody was saying our crew was the green. [Laughs] But nobody blamed me, though. I had a tough time living that down.

TI: Now the other members of your crew, where did they come from? The other firefighters, where did they live? Where did they come from?

EY: Oh, I had a fellow firemen that was from around Port Townsend, from Clallam Bay, from the Olympic Peninsula. Then other than that, there were some people from Clarksburg, California, some farmers.

TI: On your days off, when you weren't at the fire station...

EY: Well, I was supposed to study. That was the whole idea of my being a fireman. You spend a couple days a week there, and then the rest of the time you have time off. And so... but it doesn't work that way. I didn't get much done, and what I did was I tried correspondence, but it was very difficult, because when you have a question, if you can get the answer right away, it's great. But by the time I get the answer, the answer became part of the mystery. It was so hard to follow. My wife is different, she graduated with correspondence, and amazing, amazing. She can be very proud.

TI: So what kind of correspondence courses were you taking?

EY: I thought I'd take up aeronautics.

TI: So that would be hard, yeah, you'd have lots of questions.

EY: I had lots of questions, but all the questions never got any answers until maybe a couple weeks later. And it doesn't click.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: So after several months, the administration came out with the "loyalty questionnaire." Do you remember the "loyalty questionnaire"?

EY: Oh, yes, I got the questionnaire. And my father was a chairman of the committee, you know, the block managers had some kind of committee. And his advice to everybody was, "Go home and discuss it within the family," and then you can come up with your answer. Mr. Coverley was an exception. He was the director of Tule Lake, and he insisted that each one, everybody, each one individually should arrive at an answer. And because he said, "Go home and discuss within the family, and send us an answer then." So at two o'clock in the morning, there was knock, knock, knock, and camp security and a few other people came and said, "Mr. Yamashita, we've come to get you. We want you to come with us." And so they took him to the Klamath Falls jail. The next morning, everybody learned of my father's arrest, and so they all went to Mr. Coverley and said, "Mr. Yamashita doesn't do anything that's against the rules." But a couple days later, he did come home. And Mr. Coverley was reassigned, I think, several weeks later.

TI: Now, can we go back? I don't quite understand. Why did they pick him up at two o'clock in the morning? Was it because he told people to make up their own mind?

EY: Because he said for everybody to discuss it at home, go home and talk it over.

TI: Well, what's wrong with that?

EY: Well, Tule Lake was the only camp that didn't allow that. Mr. Coverley's policy was, "You make up your own mind. Don't discuss it." And because he as chief of all the block managers, and his advice was to go home and talk, so he was arrested.

TI: So your father promoted discussion, he wanted people to talk with their families, I understand. And then the administration...

EY: Other camps all did that. All the camps, all discussed it in the family. But not this one. And so... but when, shortly thereafter, Mr. Coverley was reassigned, and so he talked my father, walked up to his office, you know, and he said, "Mr. Coverley, I've come to wish you good luck, come to say goodbye." And Mr. Coverley talked, and he said, "Mr. Yamashita, while I was in camp, I made one big mistake." So my father said, "Well, what can that be?" He said, "That was in putting you in jail." Well, he said, "This is wartime." He said, "Mistakes are bound to be made. I have no bad feelings." And they parted. But I thought that was a good answer.

TI: Going back to the "loyalty questionnaire," was there lots of, I guess, confusion and anger about the questionnaire? Because your father was kind of in charge of other block managers.

EY: I don't think he gave any direction on that. He left it up to the family to discuss it. No, I think my father handled it properly, gave everybody the opportunity to discuss it within the family. And even in talking with Mr. Coverley, he told him that, and honestly talked about it. And so I think that was good. It was the proper thing to do.

TI: Now going back when your father was put in jail at Klamath Falls, what was the reaction of the other Japanese men?

EY: In the morning when they found out, everybody petitioned Mr. Coverley, and they told him that Mr. Yamashita wouldn't do anything wrong. And so, "Please release him." And so he came back home two or three days later.

TI: And how about you? How did you feel when they took your father away?

EY: You know, it was a very difficult time on all of... Dad, to see him arrested. And I was... I was swayed by these things, the emotions that were going on in camp. And you know at one time I requested repatriation, but later I reconsidered and I said, "I think I made a mistake in judgment, so I would like to cancel that." And I had it cancelled. I also had, I entered "no-no," and there was a lieutenant colonel from the Presidio of San Francisco that came to visit and interview me. So I told him that I felt that the government was wrong in doing the things they did. And so until the government corrects it, I think I will not change my answer. And to the very end, I said that I cannot change my answer from "no-no" to anything else, because it's the government that did the wrong thing. [Pauses] And the man, the lieutenant colonel that came to interview me, he said, "I don't blame you. I don't blame you." He said, "Any red-blooded American will be angry." But he said, "I want you to think about things after the war." He said, "The United States and Japan may be best of allies," meaning that what you do, your action, you will not be so blamed for what you say. But I did not change my answer; I kept my "no-no." And I said I would, it can't be done, but then I would keep it a blank. And the lieutenant colonel said, "I don't blame you," and he said, "After the war, Japan and the United States may be best of allies, and I want you to think about those things." And I think he meant to say that you don't have to fear adverse conditions or thoughts if you answer in a different way. But I said, I didn't change my answer. I kept it that way.

TI: Do you think he was trying to persuade you to change it?

EY: I think he was trying to say that you can... the thing that he was trying to do was trying to make me change my answer. He said, "I want you to change your answer." But he didn't find faults with me, and when I made application to go to Chicago to the Illinois Tech, I had no problem. My answer was still "no-no," but still they didn't keep me from going to Chicago.

TI: Okay, so now you went to Chicago. But going back to your original decision, "no-no," what did your father say? I mean...

EY: My father didn't say anything, but my mother was the one that said things. And my mother said, "Are you going to go and fight your mother's country?" And that was the real thing that happened, I think, a very difficult thing for, especially for Japanese children.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: Now after the "loyalty questionnaire" and you were, and your family stayed there, you started seeing activities like the Hoshidan and things like that. Did the family get involved?

EY: With what?

TI: With like the Hoshidan?

EY: Oh, Hoshidan, no, never did.

TI: But you saw that at camp.

EY: Yeah.

TI: So what did you think about that?

EY: I think it was no place to be doing things like that. You can keep your own opinion, whatever you want, you're entitled to your own opinion. But to influence other people, I don't think it's a thing to do.

TI: Now how about your father? Early at Tule Lake he was one of the leaders, the block manager leader.

EY: He resigned right away.

TI: I see.

EY: He has a habit of doing that. When the going gets tough, he said, "I resign."

TI: And then after that, what was his job after that? What did he do?

EY: Well, you know, it was good that he went to say goodbye to Mr. Coverley. You can't blame him, you know. There's nothing that you can say, "Mr. Yamashita, you did something wrong." No, he didn't. And that was, I think, to his credit.

TI: But then what did your father do after that? Did he get a new job?

EY: No. He had ulcers or something, worrying about things. But he was more thinking about me, and so the attorney that he shared the office with in the Smith Tower, he was released from some other camp, and so he was, opened up a practice in Chicago. And so he went to see Tom for consultation, and he advised him that probably Illinois Tech would be a good place for me to go. And so I applied for five dollars. For five dollars they accepted me, but I didn't stay because we had to get back here and work.

TI: But what's interesting is even though you said "no-no," they let you leave Tule Lake to go to...

EY: They didn't restrict me from leaving Tule Lake.

TI: That's unusual, because part of that, the reason for that was to determine whether or not to let people leave the camp.

EY: Well, this lieutenant colonel I think had a greater understanding, and I think he recognized. I said, "It wasn't me that was wrong," I said, "it was the government that was wrong." That's why he said, "Any red-blooded American would be angry." He said, "I don't blame you."

TI: But then you also said earlier that you applied to renounce your citizenship?

EY: That's right.

TI: So tell me about, that's a big step, because to renounce your citizenship, it's more than just saying "no-no," this was a big step for you.

EY: Yeah. They saw the simple honesty in me, I was telling everything as it was. And I think the lieutenant colonel wanted to see me leave, not to be influenced by those people in camp, because they can't do that. And I thought that he was... because he said, "You know, I don't blame you." He said, "Any red-blooded American would be angry."

TI: But eventually you decided to take back that application. What made you decide not to renounce your citizenship?

EY: Well, as my explanation, I said that I was influenced by the mood of the camp. But I thought that it was a mistake, so I wanted to take it back, and I had no problem.

TI: And who did that? Was that the lieutenant colonel that you were talking with? Or who were you talking with?

EY: That's the explanation I gave him when I was interviewing him, he was interviewing me.

TI: I see. But then the interview, was that during that interview that you took back the application?

EY: Oh, I applied before that. Before.

TI: Before, but then I'm trying to understand when you took it back, though.

EY: It was not a bargain.

TI: But during the meeting with the lieutenant colonel, I realize it's not a bargain, but at that point, did you want to take back the renunciation, or did you want to keep the renunciation?

EY: Oh, no, I didn't. I didn't want to.

TI: Okay. And so that was part of the discussion with the colonel, he probably wanted to understand that.

EY: You know, the lieutenant colonel, the way I saw it was he always felt that I was not of the other, so he, I think, must have interviewed a lot of people, and he must have had an idea by the feeling, what my thought was. But I said, I did say that... I said that, well, my thought was that I think the fact that I said that the government was wrong, I think that really weakened the government's position.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: So then after that meeting, then you applied to go to Chicago.

EY: Yeah.

TI: So tell me about Chicago. What was that like?

EY: Well, you know, Chicago was... I goofed again, you know. While I was waiting for school to start, I was working at National Tea, a wholesale grocery store where some other Nikkeis were working, too, I didn't see any. And Tom Matsuda kind of helped me in the choice of the school. My problem with women is always there. So Tom and Mrs. Matsuda one day said, "Come over." But it was on a Sunday, and then I had, I think it was Thomasine Allen that gave me the name of a minister, Japanese minister. And so I felt that I was really obligated to go and see him. Well, in the meantime, the Matsudas arranged for me to meet a young lady. But I was, I was simply being honest, and not responding to what they were trying to do for me. And so I chose to go and see the minister rather than the young lady, and I think I made a faux pas, faux pas. [Laughs] But that was in my youth.

TI: Was it because you were shy, do you think?

EY: Well, yeah, that could be one, that could be one. But I was then simply too honest. Simply too honest with my own belief or thought, you know. And so I should have taken up on her. [Laughs] But if I did that, why, then I wouldn't have this nice wife.

TI: So, but Tom Masuda was a very, I guess, helpful friend, I guess, for the family?

EY: Very... yes. Tom, like I said, Tom was an attorney that my father shared the office with. And my father helped him with his Japanese correspondence, and Tom, in turn, helped my father with legal matters, because it was difficult for him not to have citizens like having the right property rights and things like that. And so Tom found some legal ways in which he could get by temporarily.

TI: And so Tom was a, like, older Nisei?

EY: Yes.

TI: So that was a good combination for him, to have your father, yeah, that's a good combination. So you said that you were in Chicago just for a short time. Why did you leave Chicago?

EY: We had to come home.

TI: So the war had ended?

EY: Yeah. When I was in Chicago, the war ended, and everybody was happy and jumping around. So I was, I was worried, what am I going to do now? We've got to make a living.

TI: And so did the whole family go back to Samish Bay?

EY: Yeah. Whole family, we knew what we could do, so we bought a property on Highway 99 right close to Midway. And we thought that by shucking and selling oysters retail, and then any surplus we'd sell to the wholesalers, we could make it. We knew what we could do, so that's what we did.

TI: And where did you get the oysters?

EY: Hmm?

TI: Where did you buy the oysters?

EY: That was a stroke of luck. You know, in 1941, we had a tremendous set, and remember we cultched for seed? The 1941 set of oysters was all along the canal, from the mouth to the tail end. And so I went to Seabeck, and there was a postmaster. Postmaster knows everybody. So I went to Harold Altoff, and I said, "Harold, could you help me? You know everybody, could you help me get some people to sell me some oysters? And I'd be willing to pay you some small commission." I paid commission only once or twice, but other than that, the people came to us and made... with that wild set of 1941, we were able to survive and make it.

TI: So this is the Hood Canal, so that wild set, there were lots of oysters in Hood Canal.

EY: Hood Canal was all covered with oysters, all the way.

TI: And so you would buy it from all those people?

EY: I'd buy it from individuals.

TI: And then you'd sell it? I see. And were other people doing the same thing, or were you about the only one?

EY: No, it was new to people. There were people, there were people that did some, but I think we were the ones that did it the longest time.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: And so when did you get back into the oyster farming business?

EY: Well, we were doing that, buying from other people, we bought a piece of property out in Dabob Bay that had lots of oysters. And we also had the property that my father was leasing, you know, the Isseis were not able to lease. So Tom made arrangements so that, to form a corporation to get some people, Niseis involved in the corporation. And by doing that, he was able to... and then by that time, I was of age that I could buy and own property. And so then we were able to lease or buy the tideland that the Larabees had, which my father was leasing prior to the war, and I also was able to buy some tideland that was owned by a man by the, civil engineer by the name of Lee Berry. And Cliff Cassad, who was a chief of the water department of the city of Bremerton, they owned jointly, oh, gosh, maybe a mile of tideland and had about several hundred acres of upland. And so we didn't have money, but we managed to buy that.

TI: So if you didn't have money, how did you buy that land?

EY: Oh, I went to, my father went to Main Fish, Kiharas, and he said we've got the chance to buy a lot of oysters. And so we delivered the oysters, shucked oysters, then you can deduct it from, if you can arrange that. And they were happy to do it.

TI: Oh, so they loaned you the money to buy the land?

EY: Yeah.

TI: And you paid them back with oysters?

EY: Yeah. You know, it was good fortune, our good fortune that that year, 1941, we had a good set of seed. Somebody was looking out for us.

TI: And so it was just wild, it just spread.

EY: It was wild oysters. Just like what I...

TI: That you showed me before. And coming back, your old neighbors, how did they welcome you back? Do you remember how your old neighbors treated you when you got back?

EY: I can't...

TI: Yeah, so how did your old neighbors treat you when you came back?

EY: Oh, they were happy to see us. You know, if we were competitors or something, maybe it'd be a different thing. But we helped them, and they in turn helped us. There could have been nothing any better than that.

TI: And then ever since then, you stayed in the oyster business?

EY: Yes.

TI: And so tell me about the oyster business. Has it grown, is it a good business to be in, or what do you think?

EY: You find maybe it's difficult to really believe, but the people in our industry, they help each other. Because we found that without a strong organization, and we're sharing our problems and our benefits, we are dependent on each other. And I think that's been the nature of our business. Everybody when they have a problem, when they need help, everybody needs help. Yeah, so it's been a good industry, and we're all friends, no enemies.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: I want to now talk about your brother and sister, because I haven't really talked about them. So first your brother. What happened to him during the war?

EY: Who?

TI: Your younger brother.

EY: My younger brother?

TI: Yeah, so what did he do during the war?

EY: Oh, gosh, you know, I owe so much to him, because he gave his life to help me. And it just makes me sad that he wasn't able to live long enough to enjoy things. But my brother was about five years younger than me, and right after the war when we were working, he would always try to help me. But it made him kind of sad that he wasn't always able to help me, because he had school to go to. He was a high school student. So he was getting close to military age, and so he joined the... he joined the National Guard. National Guard during the Korean War, and being in the National Guard, he wouldn't have to necessarily go, leave, he could help me during the week, because he was a weekend warrior. And when he graduated from high school, then he would help me full-time. Well, Thanksgiving always was a very busy, busy time, because it was general knowledge that people used oysters for turkey stuffing, and they always ran short of supplies. And so it was our practice to try to build up a supply beforehand. So on that particular year, I think it was 1958, my brother, he had just started going to Olympic JC. He said, "I've helped the family, but from now, I want to help myself." And so he got a trailer court and he was going to live there. He wanted to get married, and so he got married.

And from there, a little before Thanksgiving in 1958, he said to me, he said, "Eiichi, I will go and work, take the crew, and get enough supply of oysters built up so that you don't have to run out." And so he let me sleep that night, and he volunteered to take the crew and go and harvest the oysters for me. Then around two o'clock in the morning, I had a call from his wife. He had gotten married, oh, I think it was few weeks before. And she said Masao had gone out to bay, but he hasn't come back. And I found that they had a boat, and had a big, about thirty-horse motor on it, but it didn't start, so they changed the motor, took the big one off and put a smaller one in. And then, I think, he had about a crew of three. Well, but they forgot, they had a particular way in which they seated everybody, so that when the boat took off, why, then it would plane rather than plow. But that morning they forgot about that, and so they had the same seat placement on the, with the small motor. And when that happened, the bow didn't uprise, but it plowed, and we lost three lives, two of them brothers, and my brother. And you know the thing... he thought so much about trying to make things easier for me, that he gave his life. And it took us about three or four days to even find them, but I did find them. But, you know, it makes it very, very difficult, because he was trying to help me, and he, in the process, gave his life. Yeah, such... you know, you really get an appreciation for a brother like that. But you can say sometimes life is pretty harsh. So he wasn't able to enjoy any benefit that we have through our effort over the years.

TI: I mean, such a family tragedy.

EY: You know, my sister, too, even my sister, she's always thinking, always thinking that I've had a hard time. But no, it's not. It's the family that looked out for each other and helped, and tried to make life a little bit easier for each other.

TI: And how about --

EY: I really wish that I could have done something more. But I guess maybe I didn't do enough. But it really was my good fortune to have such a great family.

TI: So I can tell it was really hard for you. How about your parents when they found out?

EY: Yeah, well, my parents, you know, really have an appreciation for the children. She appreciated my brother, my sister, and me, but all that thanks should go to my brother. He was such a person that he was always thinking, always thinking of trying to make things a little bit easier for me.

TI: Well, I'm glad you had a chance to talk about him.

TI: Let's talk about your life. Now, when did you get married?

EY: Well, I goofed up, I guess. He always said, "You know, you're good at talking with people, and so I will do this if you will do that." He was always directing me, you know, trying to make things easier for me. I was the luckiest person in life, and I was the most unfortunate person in life, too. So I have to take the place of my brother in regards to my mother and father.

TI: Well, thank you for sharing that.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So I want to now go back to your life and ask, so when did you get married?

EY: Oh, the same year.

TI: So 1958?

EY: Was it 1958?

TI: And how did you meet your wife?

EY: Oh, my family friend, my family friend got married, and my friend's new wife knew this lady. And she was instrumental. But I was very fortunate, she's been great.

TI: So that year was a very, both happy and sad year for you.

EY: That's right, that's right, yeah. I remember, I remember my brother helped us move, and he was teasing her about all the shoes she had. [Laughs] [Referring to wife].

TI: And what happened to your brother's wife? You said they were married for weeks before he died?

EY: It was just, she was married just a very, very short time. And I met her just once after that, and I never got to find out about... she had, I think, she had two daughters and a boy. And her mother was working for us as a packer.

TI: So it sounds like she remarried someone else.

EY: I'm sure she has, because... but I met her only one time, downtown Tacoma. One day I was walking downtown, and somebody dashed out of the entryway to something, and it was Grace. But that was that one time only.

TI: Now, Eiichi, you're ninety-one years old? How old are you now?

EY: Ninety-one.

TI: Ninety-one. Now, are you still involved with the oyster business?

EY: Well, nobody allows me to be involved with oysters, but when I go and walk the beach and see something like that scene, you know, I want to get involved.

TI: How about the family? Do you have any family members still involved?

EY: Yeah, the family, we lease the property out to Taylor's. My daughter's doing most of it, she keeps track of things and keep in touch with the Taylors.

TI: And so how many children do you have?

EY: [Asks wife] How many do I have?

TI: [Laughs] Four.

EY: Four. [Laughs]

TI: Okay. So the oyster farming, the family business continues on, that's good.

EY: Yeah.

TI: So I'm going to ask Yoko, is there anything else I should ask him? Any other questions? I think we covered quite a bit. So, Eiichi, is there anything else you want to say?

EY: Hmm?

TI: Is there anything else that you want to talk about? This was a really good interview.

EY: Gosh, I can't think of anything.

TI: Yeah, I think this was a pretty fabulous interview.

EY: Well, you know, I wish, I wish I was a little bit older, I wish my father got married a little bit sooner, that I were in a position to help my father in business. Because I can see now and I can remember what my mother used to say, always finding that he was too busy to help my mom. And really the reason for my father being, not being so very, very successful, was he needed another hand. And not to say that I'm a good hand, but a family member sometimes is very helpful. And I think in so doing, I could have made my mother's life a little bit easier, make my father's life a little bit easier, and perhaps not being involved in the real heavy oyster business, probably my brother would still be alive today.

TI: Well, thank you. Thank you so much for the interview.

(Narr. note: The oyster growers had more than one problem. The sulfite liqueur from the pulp mill was one. It killed the Olympia oyster larvae during the spawning season. Those that survived were stunted and did not fatten. The Department of Fisheries in their annual drill inspection trip to Japan sought out the Kumamoto oyster as substitute oysters for Olympias. But initially it did not succeed because it was a larger oyster but years later, today, it is gaining acceptance in the marketplace. The Olympias have yet to regain their prominence.

As the years go by, the market will decide which oyster will fade and which will survive, and we as growers will have the opportunity to determine where to grow what. And that has been the job of the marketplace, to choose the product. Little by little we are finding oysters that fit the needs of the current market.)

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2014 Densho. All Rights Reserved.