<Begin Segment 1>

TI: Okay. So Warren, tell me when you were born.

WS: I was born February the 27th, 1921.

TI: So that makes you ninety-one years old?

WS: Ninety-one.

TI: And where were you born?

WS: I was born in... let's see. 27-something, I can't remember the house number, but it's on Western Avenue.

TI: So were you delivered by a midwife or in a hospital?

WS: Midwife.

TI: So what was your father's name and where was he from?

WS: My father's name is Toshiyuki, and nickname Roy Suzuki. And what's that?

TI: And where was he from in Japan?

WS: Let's see. He was born in Kuwana. Kuwana, Mie Prefecture. Am I speaking too loud?

TI: No, this is fine. And what kind of work did his family do in Japan?

WS: Well, he was of samurai family in Kuwana, Mie Prefecture.

TI: And what kind of work, though, did he do? Was he a samurai or did he do other work?

WS: No, he was a samurai.

TI: So why did he come to the United States?

WS: Well, he was... let's see, it's kind of hard to say. But he finished Waseda University, and then he was sent over to the, to Seattle by his father, my grandfather.

TI: And do you know why your grandfather wanted him to come to Seattle?

WS: Not exactly.

TI: When your father came to Seattle, what did he do?

WS: Well, it's kind of hard to say. He worked as a cook, I guess.

TI: And do you know what year he came to Seattle?

WS: Probably about 1907 or so.

TI: So, now tell me, what was your mother's name, and where was she from?

WS: My mother? My mother was from a place called Kinomoto. Kinomoto, Mie Prefecture. But she was called over to Vancouver, Vancouver, B.C., by the name of Ogawa. Ogawa was also from... let's see, Ogawa was from Shingu, Japan, and Shingu, Japan, and she was called over to Vancouver to care for the children. So she came over probably about... probably about 1910, plus or minus there.

TI: And what was your mother's name?

WS: Haru, H-A-R-U.

TI: And last name was Ogawa? Was that her maiden name?

WS: No, Maekawa.

TI: Maekawa, okay. And so how did your father and mother meet?

WS: Well, my grandfather was sick, and my father wanted to come back to Japan to care for him. But then he was... let's see. When he went back to Japan, they were coming back on the same ship from the States going back. And that's how they met on the boat.

TI: Interesting. So was it a marriage of love?

WS: The what?

TI: Was it a marriage of love? Did they like each other when they first met?

WS: Evidently.

TI: But it wasn't arranged by families, it was the two of them?

WS: Yeah.

TI: That's unusual. Most Issei, I've heard, have always been arranged marriages. So this is different. Tell me first about your father. What kind of person was he like? Like personality, what was he like?

WS: Kind of hard to say, exactly. I can't exactly describe him.

TI: How about, were there any sayings or things that he would tell you when you were a boy that you can remember?

WS: See, in Western Avenue, they were staying in the same house as the Miyanaga, was the house they were living in there in Western Avenue. And my parents was living there. And when they came over, I think they went to, probably to Sumner and did some farmwork there.

TI: Good. Now, on Western Avenue, where on Western Avenue did you live? Was it by the market, Pike Place Market? More by the Pioneer Square?

WS: You know where the, used to be the armory?

TI: No, I can't remember.

WS: You can't remember? Anyway, it's kitty corner from the armory.

TI: Let me ask your son. Do you know where this was on Western? Okay. Because Western goes along the waterfront. I'm trying to figure out where that would...

WS: Not exactly. See, from the downtown and you come to Western Avenue, and this is Western Avenue, and then it's right there at the intersection where it meets.

TI: And what neighborhood would that be? What would you call the neighborhood?

WS: I don't know. I know exactly where it is. Been there several times, but I can't remember.

TI: Well, today, what's there? What buildings are around there?

WS: The house isn't there anymore.

TI: But today, is there like a building there? Like big buildings?

WS: No, it's a house, regular house.

TI: No, but today. Today in Seattle?

WS: I don't think it's there anymore.

TI: Okay. So for school, which school did you go to?

WS: Which school did I go to? Well, first of all, I went to Pacific School, and then I went to Bailey Gatzert.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

WS: And then I went to Japan in 1931, in December, November the 30th or something, I went back -- I won't say "back" -- but I went to Japan on Hiye. Hiye Maru.

TI: Now, why did you go to Japan?

WS: What?

TI: Why did you go to Japan? You're ten years old...

WS: I was eleven.

TI: Okay, eleven.

WS: So anyway, my parents wanted me to get the Japanese education.

TI: Who else went to Japan with you?

WS: My sister, my younger sister went with me.

TI: And what's your sister's name?

WS: Lillian. Lillian Toyoko.

TI: And how much younger was Lillian?

WS: One year younger than me.

TI: Before going to Japan, did you go to Japanese language school?

WS: Yes, I did. I went to the Japanese language school. I went up to fifth grade here, fifth year. But then I wasn't too good of a student, and I went to Japan and then they put me down to the third grade.

TI: How did you feel about being sent to Japan? Was that something you wanted to do?

WS: I don't know, not exactly. It wasn't my choice.

TI: And so when your parents said, sent you to Japan, did you argue with them?

WS: No.

TI: How about your friends in Seattle? Did you talk to them about going to Japan?

WS: Well, maybe. But then I can't remember too much about those, about those times.

TI: In Seattle before Japan, what kind of things did you do? Like for playing...

WS: Like what?

TI: Yeah, in Seattle, before Japan, what were some activities that you did besides school?

WS: I can't remember.

TI: Like play games? Do you remember any games you played?

WS: No, I don't think I was too active.

TI: How about like fishing or anything like that before?

WS: I used to go out fishing in the waterfront, but that was about it.

TI: So when you got to Japan, what are your first thoughts about Japan? What did you think of Japan?

WS: Well, kind of hard to say. Anyway, I did, they put me in the third grade, and took me three years to finish the elementary school. And then I went to -- this is the elementary school called Azuma, A-Z-U-M-A, Azuma elementary school. And after I graduated from the elementary school from the sixth year, I took the exam to high school known as the Kanto, K-A-N-T-O, Kanto Gakuin. This was also American founded school. It was also known as the Meibi Memorial High School. It was sponsored by some Christians in New York, and anyway, I went to this Kanto Gakuin for five years. Kanto Gakuin is a five-year high school. And I finished the high school, so that's three years in Japan elementary school and five years in the high school, making a total of eight years. And then I came back. And just about that time, there was talk about war between Japan and the United States. So this school, Kanto Gakuin, we had about three or four different teachers who were also, we had about three English teacher, and there were about three or four Japanese teacher who was graduated from the university and was teaching there. So anyway, I was told by these teacher to, better to go back to the United States before the war started. Because I was in Japan at the dormitory, high school dormitory. And anyway, I was told to go back in 1941.

TI: How do you think the teachers knew that there was going to be war?

WS: Well, there were talk about war between the United States and Japan coming up. Because at that time, at least Japan was quite, pretty aggressive in China. And China and Manchuria... Manchuria and, there were more or less going on between Russia and Japan. And so they figured that Japan and America will be in war pretty soon, so better to be with your parents. My parents was in Seattle and they were operating a hotel called the Wilson Hotel.

TI: For you, in 1941, did you think of yourself more Japanese or more American?

WS: Well, kind of hard to say which or which. But anyway, after I came back --

TI: Okay, but Warren, a couple more questions about Japan. When you first got to Japan, in elementary school, how did the other Japanese students accept you? Were they friendly or were you, did they think you were strange or anything like that?

WS: Oh, in the elementary school, there wasn't too much discrimination against me. And I graduated with honor in the elementary school. And then by the time I graduated from the Kanto Gakuin, I was number three out of 250 students.

TI: At the Kanto Gakuin, did you learn very much English going to high school?

WS: Well, they were teaching English, but then not too much.

TI: How about your sister? What was your sister doing during this time?

WS: My sister was in Japan for three years, and Mother came back to Japan and picked her up and took her back to Japan in three years, while I was there five years after that.

TI: So why did your sister go back?

WS: I guess she just wanted to go back.

TI: How about you? Did you have a choice? Could you have gone back also?

WS: Well, I figured that since I'm in the high school, I might as well try to finish it.

TI: And in elementary school, who did you live with in Japan?

WS: It was my cousin.

TI: On your mother's side or father's side?

WS: Mother's side.

TI: In Japan, in high school, did you have any really good friends?

WS: Oh, yeah, I didn't have no problem.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

TI: Now, did you keep in touch with any of your friends? Like after the war, did you ever get back in touch with friends?

WS: In Japan or what?

TI: Yeah, in Japan.

WS: Well, I don't know how you say that. After... anyway, after I finished high school, see, the high school was, I was supposed to graduate in June -- no, March. But then my teacher said, "We'll give you the certificate saying that you graduated from high school, high school, so we'll give you the diploma. So although you may be out earlier, you will be receiving a diploma." So, anyway, I came back to the States and then I went to the University of Washington right then. Now, University of Washington, they said, "You finished high school in Japan, but your English is not too good. So if you finish high school over here or if you get a diploma from the American high school, then we'll get you to the university." So I went to high school day school, and evening class, and then I got my high school diploma from Broadway High School. They didn't give me the certificate or diploma from Broadway High School until we got in... let's see, Puyallup. Puyallup at the... anyway...

TI: So why did it take so long to get the diploma? Because you then went to the University of Washington?

WS: Well... what?

TI: So after Broadway High School, then you went to the University of Washington.

WS: Yes, I did. But then that was, I went to the University of Washington...

TI: Like September? 1941, September?

WS: 1942.

TI: Oh, interesting.

WS: 1942, so I finished Broadway High School one year. And then I finished... then after I got the word saying that I am a graduate at the Broadway High School, then the university took me in.

TI: So you started the University of Washington after Pearl Harbor, the Pearl Harbor attack? So why did you want to start college after Pearl Harbor?

WS: Well, I didn't think it was going to be no problem going to the university. So anyway, I was attending the university, UW, and then that's when they sent me to Puyallup.

TI: When you were at Broadway High School, how did American, the other American students treat you? Did they accept you because you were educated in Japan, and your English wasn't as good, did they treat you well?

WS: Not exactly too well.

TI: Like what kind of things would they do?

WS: Well, they gave me a hard time, tough time going to the day school and whatever they... well, anyway, they taught me pretty rough in some of the class.

TI: Now, was that the Niseis also, treated you hard?

WS: The Nisei didn't, but these Caucasians was kind of real tough on me.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

TI: So tell me about December 7, 1941, Sunday, the day that Pearl Harbor was bombed. Can you tell me about that day? Describe that day for me.

WS: That day, there were about... Imanishis, you've heard of 'em? Imanishi brothers, and who else was there? There were about three or four friends who were skiers. So we took a trip to Mt. Rainier for a ski trip. Then at Mt. Rainier, the people were talking about Pearl Harbor. And people said there's, Japan bombed Pearl Harbor. But then I heard the Caucasians talking to each other about the bombing of Pearl Harbor. But we got done skiing, and then we came back. But then that was about it.

TI: Now, what did you think when you heard that Japan bombed Pearl Harbor?

WS: Well, it finally came. Well, from that, end of November to December, first part, they had the envoy from Japan trying to settle the situation. But then evidently they were all ready to go to war, I guess. So it wasn't something that we just had to guess what was going on.

TI: From Mt. Rainier, when you drove back to Seattle with your friends, do you remember talking about what's going to happen?

WS: No, I don't remember talking. That's 1941 or '42. Yeah, 1942, and I can't remember any conversations in the car.

TI: Do you remember if people were worried, though? Were you guys worried or concerned, or did you think that this was not that big of a thing?

WS: I can't say anything about that.

TI: How about when you got back to Seattle? Do you remember your parents saying anything to you?

WS: Well, coming back, discrimination was real tough. And I was in Tule Lake from Minidoka.

TI: Okay, we'll talk about that later. I want to know about Seattle first, though. Like did anything else happen like discrimination in Seattle? Like in December or January, right after Pearl Harbor?

WS: I can't remember. It wasn't too bad, actually.

TI: How about your family? They had a hotel? Was that okay, did everything go okay with the hotel?

WS: Well, as far as the tenants at the hotel, there was no problem, actually. There were... there were military soldiers, they would come over, rent the place, and there was no problem as far as renting the room is concerned.

TI: And so where was the hotel located?

WS: It's where Uwajimaya is right now. See, it's the parking lot. Parking lot of Uwajimaya, and there used to be that Puget Sound Hotel. And across the street from the Puget Sound Hotel, there's that Wilson Hotel, and then there's a, where the Uwajimaya is right now, there's the Fremont Hotel used to be there.

TI: So your hotel was really close to the train station. So that was easy for the military and others.

WS: No problem, actually. But it's just that you had to give up everything.

TI: so what happened to the hotel? Did your father just walk away from it?

WS: Just about walk away.

TI: So anything else happen before you leave Seattle? Any other stories? Because from Seattle, where did you go next?

WS: When we came back to Seattle?

TI: No, when you left Seattle, where did you go?

WS: We went to Minidoka.

TI: Well, Puyallup first, right?

WS: Yeah, Puyallup.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

TI: And what did you think about when you went to Puyallup?

WS: Well, there was no choice. They just took us there. They had those four areas, Area A, B, C and D. And Area A was considered one of the largest, largest camp, and Area B, ours was medium size, and Area C was the smallest. And D was also known as the fairground, and that's where the, that's where people was more or less, was pretty free to roam around in the fairgrounds.

TI: But your family was in Section B?

WS: Yeah, I was in Area B.

TI: And so what kind of activities did you do at Puyallup? What did you do to take up the time?

WS: Take up the time? I was doing a correspondence course with the university.

TI: Okay. And at Puyallup, you met your wife, also.

WS: Yes.

TI: So tell me about that. How did you meet your wife?

WS: Well, I just happened to meet her.

TI: And where? Do you remember where you met her?

WS: What?

TI: Where did you meet her? Like was it in the mess hall or at a dance, do you remember?

WS: No, I can't remember.

TI: And what is her name?

WS: What?

TI: What's her name? What was her name?

WS: Kiyoka. Kiyoka Kinoshita.

TI: Good, okay.

Off camera: Teshima.

TI: Teshima.

WS: Teshima, yeah.

TI: Good, thank you. So Kiyoka or Kiyoko?

WS: Kiyoka, K-A.

TI: Kiyoka Teshima. And where was she from? Was she also from Seattle?

WS: Yeah.

TI: And so how did you, did the two of you go out on a date?

WS: What?

TI: How did you get to know her? Did you have a date or did you go for walks? How did that work?

WS: I don't remember.

TI: So any other memories from Puyallup that you can think of about Puyallup?

WS: I can't think of anything. They were giving twelve dollars a month, twelve dollars a month, and I worked in the Red Cross to take care of some of the persons who got, well, just repair of a small injury. It wasn't too bad, actually, because after all, I'm no doctor.

TI: Oh, so like first aid station?

WS: Yeah, first aid.

TI: Now, at Puyallup, was it helpful that you were bilingual, that you could speak both Japanese And English? Was that helpful?

WS: Well, in a way, yes it is. It was pretty helpful, I was able to speak both fluently.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

TI: So after Puyallup, then where did you go?

WS: After Puyallup, went to Minidoka.

TI: And what did you think of Minidoka? What were your first impressions?

WS: Well, in Minidoka, they were paying sixteen dollars and nineteen dollars for the supervisor. I worked in the hospital, in the warehouse.

TI: So in the hospital, what did you do? What was your job in the hospital?

WS: In the hospital, I was working in the... let's see. We made sure that the... how would you say that? It's an eight-hour shift, and had to, three different people was working three shifts. And I was in the boiler room, and I was making sure that the, well, the hot water was working as well as the, what do you call... anyway, some kind of a machinery, they wanted me to check the voltage so that it'll be working okay.

TI: When you were at Minidoka, did you continue the correspondence courses?

WS: The what?

TI: The University of Washington courses, did you continue?

WS: No, I didn't get that.

TI: At Puyallup you said you were taking courses by mail?

WS: Yes.

TI: Did you continue that at Minidoka?

WS: Yeah. After I went over to Minidoka, I did take a few courses. But then with nineteen dollars a month, I can't keep that up as far as the correspondence course is concerned. It was too much of a load for taking a course. So I wasn't able to continue.

TI: At the warehouse, what was your job at the warehouse?

WS: The warehouse? Well, after I worked at the hospital, I transferred to the administration office, and I was working pushing the paper, pushing the pencil, and I worked as the procurement officer. And that's where I was getting nineteen dollars. Well, anyway, the professionals were getting nineteen dollars, and common labor was getting sixteen dollars.

TI: Now as procurement officer, what kind of things would you buy? What would you guy for the camp?

WS: Well, buy anything from, well, the meal, different kind of purchasing. So I just, from the different departments, they were asked to order whatever, so we ordered it.

TI: And who would you order it from? Was it from the government or was it from companies? How did you find...

WS: That depends on whatever. But we were able to pick up practically everything, even the food and fish. Anyway, any kind of meal.

TI: Now, would you do this over the phone? Would you call people to order food?

WS: Yes, we talk about that, too.

TI: Now, did they know that you were Japanese American when you talked to them on the phone?

WS: Well, I guess so.

TI: Were they every curious, like, "Who are you?" and "What are you buying?"

WS: No, they never asked anything like that.

TI: I read that when you were at Minidoka, you were able to get a camera?

WS: Yeah. See, the block was 1 to 17 was in one row. And then from there on, all the way up towards the south, there was up to Block 30... almost 40, I guess. And then from there, they used to have the fence, barbed wire fence. But then in Minidoka, they were pretty lenient, and they removed the barbed wire. I was able to walk with some of the friends all the way over to Eden, E-D-E-N, Eden.

TI: So it's a small town.

WS: Yeah, it's a small town. And that was about six miles walk. Round trip would be twelve miles, and we walked all the way over to Eden and then we found a store there, and we went in there and we got the one dollar camera. One dollar camera like that, and film and all that, so even with nineteen dollars, I was able to purchase the camera as well as film, and I took some pictures.

TI: So what kind of pictures did you take?

WS: Barracks.

TI: And were these more of your barrack and family members and friends?

WS: Yeah.

TI: So now go back and tell me about your wife, Kiyoka. What happened with you and her at Minidoka?

WS: What happened to her?

TI: Well, to both of you, because you both got married at Minidoka.

WS: Yeah. So then it came to the point where they were recruiting the people to work as an interpreter, interpreter for the army. And they wanted me to join the army so that I'd be able to translate for them. Because after all, I did graduate from high school, and then also attended a university. So they wanted a person who'd be able to converse and interpret without any trouble. So I was proficient at that. And so I was able to, well, they wanted me to join, and I told them I did not want to join. And they kept on pestering me about joining the army and interpreter. So I said, "If it was not in the camp, I would be drafted, I would go. But then after being in the concentration camp, I don't think I'd want to join," so that was it.

TI: And who was the one pestering you? Who would try to recruit you to join? Was it a Caucasian or Japanese?

WS: It was a Japanese sergeant came over.

TI: And was he from, I guess, the Presidio or Snelling, Fort Snelling?

WS: I can't tell where it was.

TI: And so you said earlier, if it weren't for the, what you called concentration camps, if it wasn't for that, you would have joined? That it was because you were in the camp...

WS: If it was not in the camp, I would join if they drafted me. But then since I'm in the concentration camp, why should I join? So I told him I don't want to join at this time.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

TI: Okay. But a little bit later on, or at some point, the government came out with a questionnaire?

WS: "No-no."

TI: Right. And question 27 and 28, they asked, one of the questions was, "Would you be willing to serve?"

WS: I said, "no-no."

TI: And so did you talk to people about that in terms of how to answer those questions? Like did you talk to your parents or any friends?

WS: No, not exactly. But I decided that I'll answer "no-no."

TI: Now how about your... at this point, were you married, or did you get married before or after the "loyalty questionnaire"?

WS: Well, see, what happened was in the camp, they said, "Those who want to sign up to go to Japan, sign up for it." Now, and so lots of people decided they wanted to go back to Japan and sign up for it. And they're the one that was sent back to Tule Lake. And that was about... when was it? I can't recall. But they sent quite a few of the people who wanted to go to Japan, they were, a whole train full was shipped over to Tule Lake. And at the same time, from the Tule Lake, some of them came back to Heart Mountain and Minidoka and such. So they exchanged quite a bit of the people now. In my case, since I said "no-no," "Then we'll ship you to Tule Lake." "Well, if that's it, I'll go with you, go around with you."

TI: This is your wife?

WS: Yeah. And my wife, they gave me a permit to go down to Twin Falls. Twin Falls, and I went to the Twin Falls... what do you call that? Anyway, their courthouse, and I got the marriage license.

TI: Okay. So let me make sure I understand this. So it was after you decided that you were gonna go to Tule Lake, then Kiyoka said that she would come with you, and that's when you got married.

WS: Yeah.

TI: I see. Did you talk to her about your decision before...

WS: Yeah.

TI: And she just wanted to go with you?

WS: Yeah.

TI: How did she answer the "loyalty questionnaire"? Do you remember what she wrote in hers? In terms of question 27 and 28, was it "yes-yes" or "no-no"?

WS: I didn't ask her that.

TI: How about your parents? What did they do?

WS: They said they'll come with me.

TI: Okay. So it was like you were kind of the leader in some ways. It was your decision that really brought the family to Tule Lake. And how about your sister? Did she also go to Tule Lake?

WS: Yes. She decided that she'll go, too.

TI: Now when the army sergeant kept asking you to join the army, to join the Military Intelligence Service, did you get angry at all at him?

WS: No.

TI: So it was just that you just said no, you just won't do it.

WS: No.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

TI: So tell me, when you went to Tule Lake, how was Tule Lake different than Minidoka?

WS: Well, Tule Lake was, they got the barbed wire all the way around, they got these tower with the soldier there, and anytime a soldier was up there with their guns pointed towards the fence all the way around, there were quite a few, what do you call, tower. And if he comes close to the fence, they'll holler on that megaphone and tell him to, "Get back in."

TI: So for you, did this make you more nervous, being at Tule Lake than Minidoka?

WS: Oh, yes. Minidoka, they got all the barbed wire all the way around, they took 'em all out. They took 'em all out, and people were free to go all the way into the sagebrush area and walking around, do whatever they want. So that's when we were free to go all the way over to Eden. And then on top of that, people would be given a pass to go to Twin Falls.

TI: So at Tule Lake, people weren't allowed to go to, like, Klamath Falls or anywhere around there?

WS: No, don't allow to go anywhere.

TI: And so did that surprise you, when you went to Tule Lake, how much more security there was?

WS: What was that question?

TI: Were you surprised that Tule Lake was so different than Minidoka?

WS: Yes?

TI: Were you surprised about that?

WS: Not exactly. They had the riot and all that, and so the people were kind of, pretty much concerned about that Tule Lake. But at least they were not allowed to go anywhere you want.

TI: Now were you at Tule Lake when they had the riot?

WS: Yes. They had the, they had the riot, but then I did not join 'em. Anyway, they were pretty careful about people going out anywhere.

TI: Now, did you ever participate in any meetings or discussions with people who wanted to go back to Japan? Like the Hoshidan or people like that, would you get involved with those groups?

WS: No.

TI: Now, why didn't you? Because again, they probably were interested in you because of your Japanese education and language. Did they ever try to make you become like a leader or anything like that?

WS: Well, now, the block manager, block manager was constantly saying, "I don't see any report from you that wants to go to Japan." I said, "I don't want to go to Japan at this time."

TI: So did you change your mind? When you were at Minidoka, were you thinking maybe you would go to Japan, and did you change your mind at Tule Lake?

WS: No.

TI: And so did you want to go to Tule Lake, or would you rather have stayed at Minidoka if you had your choice?

WS: Well, they didn't give you no choice. They more or less forced you go to. Like the people who went on a second trip to Tule Lake, they were, there was only two carloads, two carloads that went to Tule Lake.

TI: You mean from Minidoka? Only two train cars?

WS: Yeah, two train car was for the Tule Lake, and the one that went out first was from Japan, wanted to go to Japan was, they must have had about six train to take them over to Tule Lake. But the Tule Lake group that we went, the one that we went was mostly "no-no" group or the, like the Mr. Seko, you've heard of him. Mr. Seko was interned over to... where was that, anyway? In Montana.

TI: Missoula, Fort Missoula, Montana?

WS: Yeah, Fort Missoula. Lots of the Seattleites, the government leaders and such, was all picked up and taken over to Missoula, Montana. And after they'd been hearing various explanations, they figured that Mr. Seko and such was not dangerous character. And then they shipped him back to Minidoka, but then they didn't want to keep them there, so they had Mr. Seko and his family was also shipped over to Tule Lake.

TI: And when you were at Tule Lake, you mentioned your block manager would always ask you, "So when are you going to decide about going to Japan or not?" Was there lots of pressure or tension about that question?

WS: Well, in a way, he was looking at all the mail, everything that comes in. That goes over to block manager, and that's where they look at all the letter that comes in. So the block manager was kind of nosy.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

TI: So I want to go back to your family, because you and your wife had a baby at Tule Lake?

WS: Yeah.

TI: So how was it having a baby at Tule Lake? Was that hard to do?

WS: No. Let's see. There was the doctor, doctor from San Francisco area. And I can't remember the doctor's name, but anyway, the doctor was available.

TI: Okay, so the health facilities, the health care was pretty good to have a baby for your wife and child. How about taking care of a baby? Was that hard to do in the barrack or anything like that?

WS: No problem.

TI: At Tule Lake, what was your job at Tule Lake?

WS: [Addressing son off camera] He is the first baby --

TI: No, your daughter was born, right?

WS: Yeah, first daughter, yeah. She was born in Tule Lake. And my son was born in Seattle, weren't you?

TI: Right. And so what was your daughter's name? What's your daughter's name?

WS: The what?

TI: Your daughter, what is her name?

WS: Hiroko Grace.

TI: Now, when you're at Tule Lake, what kind of work did you do at Tule Lake?

WS: At Tule Lake I was in the electrical department and the warehouse.

TI: And what kind of work is that? When you're electrical department, is that like fixing things, or what do you do?

WS: I really don't know what to call it. But anyway, the warehouse job was taking care of the electrical, and the electrical part was also a climber, there was a person that climbs the power pole and all that. And now whenever there's any problem, they'd call in and we'd dispatch the climbers to go out there to check it.

TI: Now were you one of the climbers, too, did you climb?

WS: No, I didn't climb.

TI: So you were more of a dispatcher?

WS: What?

TI: Were you then, were you a dispatcher, or what was your job?

WS: I still can't get that.

TI: What was your job? If you didn't climb, what did you do?

WS: Pencil.

TI: [Laughs] Okay, good.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

TI: Any other stories about Tule Lake that you can remember that stand out?

WS: Well, I was winding coil for making the Tule Lake, or the Japanese broadcasts come in and receive any kind of radio. So that people would ask me to make their radio so that you could hear the Japanese broadcasts.

TI: So you had coil that it was like an antenna that you could attach to radios, so they could get a better signal? Is that what you were doing?

WS: Yes.

TI: And so people with the coil could hear broadcasts from Japan.

WS: Yeah.

TI: And so I'm curious, I mean, at the end of the war, when Japan surrendered, there were many Japanese at Tule Lake that didn't believe that. They thought that Japan was going to win the war. So what did the broadcasts say? Were they listening to Japan and that's where they got that idea, or what were they listening to?

WS: Well, there was that emperor's broadcast which was giving out the surrender word.

TI: And so when people in Tule Lake heard that, what was the reaction?

WS: I don't know. "That's a lie."

TI: Oh, so many people thought that it was not the emperor, it was a hoax or a lie?

WS: Yeah.

TI: What did you think when you heard that?

WS: Well, I was hearing all kinds of things coming through, so I figured that whatever, it's the truth, so there wasn't anything to dispute what they were saying.

TI: Because I interviewed some people, and they talk about how their parents all the way up until they got to Japan, so they went back to Japan, and it was when they got to Japan, they realized that Japan had lost. And many of them were just so grief-stricken, they were so sad. Up to that point, they thought Japan had won the war.

WS: Yeah.

TI: Interesting. How about the administration, the U.S. government administration at Tule Lake? Didn't they announce that the war was over, and didn't people believe them?

WS: Yeah, after the war was over, so as of September the 3rd or the 5th or somewhere around there, we were free to go anywhere.

TI: How about the news of the atomic bomb?

WS: The what?

TI: The news about the atomic bomb, Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

WS: Oh, yeah?

TI: How did people react to that news?

WS: Well, as far as that word was concerned, our electrical department supervisor was a Caucasian with the name of Roper. Roper, and he was the electrical department supervisor, and he was naturally listening to these broadcasts, too. And he says, "Well, after all, the atomic bomb and all that was, it's true," so what could you do?

TI: But were the Japanese sad about the atomic bomb?

WS: What?

TI: Were people sad when they heard the news, or were they happy because the war was over? Because pretty much everywhere else --

WS: It's kind of hard to say what they were thinking.

TI: So people didn't really say, they just listened.

WS: Yeah.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

TI: So with the war ending -- it's now over, the war is over. So September 1945, what did you do next?

WS: The first thing that I did was I went back to Seattle and anyway, I made about two or three trips to Tule Lake.

TI: So explain that. Why were you going back and forth from Seattle to Tule Lake?

WS: Well, see, going back to Seattle, there was no, there was no open job for a Japanese. So people would have a hard time finding a job. And I had a hard time looking for a job to do something. Well, in the hospital, like the Providence Hospital, they wanted a janitor. They want somebody who'd be able to take care of the surgery room immediately after operation. And they had to clean up the mess, and anyway, they couldn't find any appropriate worker who would be able to do that kind of a work. So I guess they just wanted to push that out to the Japanese that was returning without any job.

TI: And so is that what you did when you came back to Seattle?

WS: Yeah, I had to work the janitorial work.

TI: At Providence Hospital, okay.

WS: Yeah.

TI: And so when you came back to Seattle, where did you live?

WS: We moved into the Japanese language school.

TI: And so tell me about that. So did your family, who in your family lived at the Japanese language school?

WS: Yes.

TI: So who else besides? It was you, your wife, your daughter, how about your parents? Were they with you?

WS: Yes.

TI: And your sister also, was she there?

WS: Yes.

TI: How about your wife's family, where were they?

WS: Wife's family, they were there at the... well, they got the name of all these people at the Japanese language school. The list of people there... don't you have that list?

TI: No, I do, so I want to understand. So was your wife's family also staying at the language school?

WS: Yes.

TI: Okay, so it was your family, and then your wife's family, did they have another room then?

WS: Yes. Some of 'em was segregated with a curtain.

TI: So in your room, how many people were living?

WS: I can't seem to recall.

TI: So it was you and your wife and your daughter, you had your parents, your sister, so that's six right there. Were there more people living there?

WS: Yeah, more people. It was her parents. [Indicating videographer]

TI: Her grandparents?

WS: Her parents was in the same room with us, too. See, because I guess the room wasn't enough for everybody, and I think they had to double up and triple up. So that was the best they could do, for people to stay in the area.

TI: And how long did you stay at the Japanese language school?

WS: About a year or so maybe.

TI: So it was a long-term housing place for people. I mean, some people stayed there for even longer, for years. And how would you compare the living conditions at the language school with, say, the barracks?

WS: With the what?

TI: How would you compare the language school with, like, Minidoka? Was it easier at Minidoka or easier at the language school?

WS: Well, Minidoka, they did all the cooking for us, and they gave us the room. So it wasn't too bad of a comparison. But then as far as the Japanese language school was concerned, I don't think they'd have a chance to compare it equally. Because it would be, you'd have to be doing your own cooking, which makes lots of difference.

TI: And so where would people cook at the language school?

WS: Where was that, anyway? Was that on the first floor?

TI: Yeah, the first floor there's one kitchen I know of. Did everyone just use that one kitchen?

WS: Yeah.

TI: That's pretty small for all the people who lived there.

WS: Yeah.

TI: I interviewed people, and they talked about that some people were pretty depressed after the war, and that there were maybe one or two suicides at the language school. Do you remember that?

WS: No, I don't remember.

TI: Okay. They said, I think it was some Issei men who, and a couple of them committed suicide.

WS: Oh. I don't remember. I was looking at the list of people in a different part of the house, the room, but I don't recall lots of the names.

TI: Now at the language school, were there ever any... I guess events or parties?

WS: The what?

TI: Did you ever have any parties or anything at the language school or festivals to celebrate like Oshogatsu, things like that?

WS: No, I can't remember.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

TI: Now, you're back in Seattle, did you go back, did you start going back to school when you come back to Seattle?

WS: No, I can't go back to school, there's no money.

TI: And so were you ever able to go back to the University of Washington?

WS: I was barely making any money to be able to support the family.

TI: Okay. So you never, so once the war started, that really stopped your whole university career?

WS: Yeah, in a way. But after I came back to Seattle, step by step I changed the job. And at one time I was working at the Seattle Lighting and Fixture company, that's on the Second Avenue and Main Street. I was working there for about a year and a half or so, and then I was offered a job to work in the Seattle Engineering Department. And the wage was much better than working in the janitorial work. So anyway, I started working for the city, and worked in the... let's see. I worked in the Seattle Lighting and Fixture company for also about a year or so.

TI: So you first worked at Providence as a janitor, and then from there you went to Seattle Lighting and Fixture?

WS: No, before that, in between that, I was working at the St. Vincent de Paul. I was working in the electrical part, which people would donate electrical goods, and some of 'em are broken and some of 'em are just a simple repair. Then they sell those, so I was...

TI: When you worked there, I remember talking to some people, and they said there were other Japanese and Japanese Americans who worked there also?

WS: Yes.

TI: That they worked, I think, in like the sign shop and different places?

WS: Yeah, that's how my brother-in-law, Mr. Tokita, he was, he had a sign shop before the war. And he was doing the sign painting and all that for the St. Vincent de Paul, and on their truck, they have the sign: St. Vincent de Paul's truck.

TI: Now, did you know that he was also an artist, that he did paintings and things, Mr. Tokita. Did you ever see his artwork?

WS: The what?

TI: Did you ever see Mr. Tokita's artwork? Like he was an artist and did paintings?

WS: Yes.

TI: Did you see that also?

WS: Yeah. I had known my brother-in-law... 1930. I think 1931.

TI: Okay, so before the war you knew him.

WS: Yeah, before the war. He got married to my older sister.

TI: Okay, and what was your older sister's name?

WS: Haruko.

TI: Haruko.

WS: H-A-R-U-K-O, Haruko.

TI: And tell me a little bit about the artist Mr. Tokita. What kind of person was he?

WS: Kind of hard to say.

TI: [Laughs] Why do you say that? Was he quiet or was he funny, or how would you describe him?

WS: I can't say.

TI: Okay.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

TI: Going back to your life, you said you stayed at the Japanese school for one year.

WS: Where?

TI: The Japanese language school, you lived there one year. Where did you go after that?

WS: We bought a house, bought a house on Sixteenth Avenue.

TI: Over by Providence Hospital, nearby there?

WS: Yeah, fairly close.

TI: Good, okay. And so you worked as a janitor, then you worked at the St. Vincent de Paul, then you worked at the Seattle Lighting and Fixture, and then the Seattle Engineering Department, those are the jobs?

WS: Yeah.

TI: Okay. And how long did you work with the City of Seattle?

WS: Thirty-five years.

TI: Besides work, what other activities did you do after the war? Things like, did you do things like fishing or what other hobbies did you have?

WS: It's kind of hard to say.

ES: Dad, you were always building boats, remember, your own boats?

WS: Yeah. I built about three different boats.

TI: So, Warren, tell me about boat building. This is from scratch, you would build a boat?

WS: Yeah.

TI: How did you learn how to build a boat?

WS: Read the book. [Laughs]

TI: [Laughs] And were these boats, you used these boats by yourself? So would go out in the Puget Sound with these boats?

WS: Well, put it on the trailer and then I went out fishing with it. And I would go fishing over to Seque and Neah Bay and also Westport. Also I made myself a canoe out of a wood strip, that thickness about that, pull 'em together like that.

TI: Oh, so you kind of weave 'em together?

WS: Yeah.

TI: Interesting.

WS: I still have that in my garage. And then anyway, I used to go fishing quite a bit.

TI: Okay. And I just want to finish off kind of, or talk about your family. So you mentioned, I think, your oldest daughter was Grace?

WS: The what?

TI: Your oldest daughter was named Grace or Hiroko?

WS: Hiroko Grace.

TI: And then you had a son?

WS: [Points to ES off camera] Masaru, Ed.

TI: Okay, and any other children?

WS: And then my present... Kiyoka passed away, and then I got married to this present wife. And my present wife's name is... what's her name now?

TI: We can have Ed help.

ES: Kanemi.

WS: Kanemi.

TI: And children with the second wife?

WS: Yeah. The boy's name is... what is that?

ES: Koji.

WS: Koji. And then my daughter, the youngest daughter's name is Junko.

TI: Good.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

TI: So I'm going to ask -- Ed's here with us in the room -- any other questions I should ask your dad? Any other stories?

ES: Well, he actually led a much more colorful life in that he was a ham radio operator. That was one of his main hobbies in his free time. But he also didn't have a lot of free time after he purchased an apartment on Fifteenth Avenue and he did all the labor for that himself. Fairly laborious because he didn't have to take off the wallpaper, strip the walls, paint them, patch them, do all the electrical. And he did that for just about every unit that became vacant. So he basically put his, after he moved to the apartment, spent most of his life working that apartment.

TI: Okay, so I have a question, Warren. So you worked really hard in your life, it sounds like.

WS: The what?

TI: You were a really hard worker in your life. Why do you think you worked so hard?

WS: Well, I did different kind of work actually. I did TV repair, and then when the TVs start getting bad, then I quit that job.

TI: But even, so you always had your regular job, but then even your free time, you would have apartments, you would do ham radio, you would always be busy. So why do you think you were always so busy?

WS: I don't know. I keep myself busy so that I'd be able to occupy myself. And then, anyway, after I started working for the city, I would do, let's see... I would go part time to some of the civil engineering work type, which I would be using for my job. I have taken up quite a few different kind of work such as survey, survey work and also the work to be done in the water conservation and things like that. So anyway, I kept myself busy trying to learn something better all the time. And so by the time I started, I was just a senior engineer's aide. Then I was... then I would take the civil engineers, the city job exam, and I would build myself up to a senior engineer. And from regular junior engineer's job to a senior engineer's... let's see, goes from senior... senior aide to a junior aide, and then associate, and then I become a senior engineer. So by the time I finished the course, I was in the supervisor's job as the senior engineer of the City of Seattle with thirty-five years of engineering.

TI: That's an amazing kind of progression. So you started, really, at the bottom and went all the way to the top of this organization. Did it ever slow you down or hinder you because you didn't have a college education?

WS: Well, I did try to pick up the college courses, which is helpful for my job. And I kept on studying in that course as well as... let's see. I got my University of Washington honorary degree in 2008.

TI: Now, how did you feel about that? When you got your honorary degree, how did that make you feel?

WS: Well, I got my college degree, but that was after I finished the... well, after I retired from the city.

TI: So after all these years, after you retired, the University of Washington gave you an honorary degree along with other Japanese Americans who were at the university at the same time during the war and were stopped. But when you received that degree -- I was at the ceremony -- and the president of the university handed it to each person.

WS: Yes.

TI: How did you feel about that? What did it make you feel?

WS: Well, at least I got my degree.

TI: Were you pretty happy when you got it?

WS: Well, I guess so. I was happy to see my son get his PhD at the Oregon State.

TI: No, it's an amazing story because in some ways, I look at your life, and I wonder what your life would have been without the war. Because you would have been at the university, you would have received a university degree, and I wonder what your life would have looked like.

WS: Well, I would be... I would say what? If the war did not interrupt me, I would probably have my degree without too much difficulty. I was working at the Alaska cannery. Lots of the cannery workers were in the same boots as I was doing the cannery, salmon cannery work. And the salmon cannery work was a real good pay, although work about twelve hours a day, and it was a real hard work. But after getting lot of those degree, I noticed that my tuition at the University of Washington was only twenty-five dollars per quarter. And I was able to work that without any difficulty.

TI: But I was just wondering in terms of where your career might have gone. Because back in Japan, you were a really good student. You were number three in your high school.

WS: Yeah.

TI: And so it's clear to me that you had a real good aptitude for school, so that's what I was wondering. If you were able to finish school, what degree would you have gotten, do you think?

WS: I was trying to get a Boeing job, aeronautical engineering. I was signed up for the aeronautical engineering course when I first started at the university.

TI: Now, do you ever have any regrets or bitterness about not getting a college degree?

WS: Well, I wish I could have gotten it, but, well, that's passed now. I think about it now and then, but now I don't know what to say about it.

TI: So I have finished my questions. Ed, anything else that you think I should ask?

ES: No, I can't think of anything.

TI: So, Warren, you did a wonderful job. This was a really interesting interview. Because you have memories from way back, which was really helpful. So thank you for the interview.

ES: I don't know how long I'll be living now, but I'd like to keep it up for another nine more years. [Laughs]

TI: Well, when you reach a hundred, we'll do another one of these, okay? [Laughs] Okay, good. Thank you.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.