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PF: So once you got back to Hawaii and you had started practicing law, were you involved or aware of the Democratic Revolution that was going on in Hawaii with the Democratic party and the unions?

TT: Well, let's see, I started practicing 1951, actually. And I guess I paid attention to my law work, and although my fellow veterans at that time were being, shall I say, "courted" by Jack Burns and maybe some of the labor union leaders to form a Democratic party, you know, the Sakai Takahashis and the Matsy Takabukis and that group, I wasn't... you know, I should have been part of that group but I wasn't. I guess very early I realized that I didn't have the competence or the talent to be a politician. And so I never got active. Although to get a job at the City and County at that time, we had to sign a Democratic party card because at that time, Mayor Wilson was a Democrat and all appointees, political appointees were, owed their appointment to a, at that time, a Democratic mayor, so we had to sign a Democratic card. But even then, I was never active in the Democratic party, like being a precinct leader or attending their meeting and so forth. Generally I stayed separated and aloof from politics. And so to make a long story short, I never ran for public office. I, again, realized that I wasn't made for...

PF: What were your thoughts about what was happening? Did you have...

TT: Well, I wasn't too aware, although certainly I was in sympathy with the fact that Hawaii needed to be changed. In fact, even throughout the war, whenever we talked about going home and all that, I remember many discussions with fellow veterans, soldiers at that time, from Hawaii, that, "When we get back, things got to be different. Hawaii has to change." In other words, up to that time, Hawaii was dominated by the so-called Big Five Oligarchy. And socially Hawaii was structured vertically with the haoles on top, and then all the other races were aligned along a vertical stepladder. And the Japanese were somewhere in that lower hierarchy. And before the war, it was, you know, the opportunity ceilings were, for Japanese was scarce. And even university graduates could only aspire to get a certain, achieve a certain level. And, of course, downtown, a university graduate could not expect or think of getting a job with Castle and Cooke or C. Brewer or any of the Big Five companies. They didn't hire Japanese, And actually, even after I got out of law school and came home, the so-called "Big Five" law firms that did all the work for the Big Five, they did not hire Nisei lawyers. For the first maybe almost a decade, from 1950 up to maybe the end of, before 1960, in that period, it was still hard if not impossible to be hired by a Big Five, what we called the Big Five law firms. So there were these ceilings. And we didn't think that was right. Every guy should be able to rise to the top of their ability.

So when you talk about whether we realized that change was needed, sure, change was needed. And those who were more indignant and active about it were willing to cast their lot in a path of political change. And as history has disclosed, that came when the Democratic party fielded enough candidates and the 1954 election is when, for the first time, the legislature came under the control of the Democrats. And it has been that way ever since. Yeah, we were aware of that change. I personally, you might say that I was on the sidelines. I was not in the midstream or mainstream of this political activism led by Niseis and labor in forming the nucleus of the Democratic party.

PF: You said that during the war, you and other soldiers had talked about how things have to be different in Hawaii. Was there discussions or thoughts about how it should be different and what you could do to change it?

TT: There may have been, but I guess nothing concrete, because it could be only, you know, aspired results rather than anything that was concrete, because that never happened.

PF: Did you think about your service in the military, how that was gonna impact what would happen after Hawaii?

TT: How do you mean?

PF: I mean, a lot of the conversations had been that by proving their loyalty and being successful, that when they came back they were in a position, they were in better position to influence what was going on in the community.

TT: Yeah, because to be a Japanese in Hawaii, going back two decades, back to the big sugar strikes of 1909 and 1920, from that point on where the militancy of the Japanese sugar workers, it put such a shock and scare into the establishment, that the Japanese, the whole population, in other words, not just the Issei, but even Nisei, were regarded... well, during the strikes they were labeled as agents of the imperial government of Japan that was intent on taking over Hawaii. You know, smearing it point on, the Japanese were, in terms of economic, but social and political, and of course, even military threats to the security and welfare of Hawaii and the nation. And so, you know, Niseis labored under that stigma and that burden really for the first two decades of their lives, all the way through the war. I remember, if you're talking about what we dreamed and aspired as we were soldiers, I remember just before coming overseas I wrote a letter which was maybe in the form of an essay or narrative, and I think it was called "Our New Hawaii." And there were two or three pages of my thoughts at that time, the basic theme being that we have, or we are and we will prove our loyalty as 100% Americans and that we deserve to live in a society that gave a square chance to everyone to be able to achieve the American way of life. I remember doing that, that's in black and white.

PF: Do you still have that?

TT: Yes, I found it, yes.

PF: You have to share that with me. I haven't read that one.

TT: Very idealistic. But yet, like I say, I think it reflected the yearnings of every Nisei from Hawaii who went out and was willing to serve his country.

PF: Do you think it came to pass?

TT: Yeah. I think it did. I think it did. I think the war, you know, was maybe, like some people have said, a blessing in disguise. As hard and bitter and cruel and tragic as it was, yet the ultimate result was it was a pivotal event, not only in history, but for Hawaii. I think, for instance, that the coming of war and the martial law broke the control of the Big Five over Hawaii. And that's why the Big Five fought so hard to remove martial law even from the middle of 1942. After the Battle of Midway, there was no danger of Japan invading Hawaii. There was no need for real martial law. Yet the military kept control for the next two years against the desperate objection and struggle of the Big Five to removal martial law so that Hawaii, both the government and the economic conditions of Hawaii were back in the control of the Big Five. It never happened. I think the war, one of the effects of the war as far as Hawaii's concerned is that it did change the face of Hawaii. Hawaii's never been the same since.

PF: What did you think about the move to statehood?

TT: Pardon me?

PF: What did you think about the move towards statehood in the '50s?

TT: Yeah, I think statehood was the tail end of that dream or aspiration that we deserve to be a part of the, integral part of the United States. And, well, I think that was shared by a greater majority of people in Hawaii. It was only a small minority that was, of course, afraid of the so-called "Japanese problem" or the "Japanese menace." They were afraid of the numerical and therefore political potential of the Japanese, that Hawaii would end up in the control of the Japanese, so to speak. I think there was a segment of the Hawaiian population that objected to statehood. But other than that, well, even the Big Five, maybe for practical economic reasons, favored statehood because that way they could get a voice, a vote in Congress so that they could do something about sugar quotas and legislation that affected the success and well being of the sugar industry. So even the powers that be did favor statehood. Of course, the everyday common citizen like us, why, we felt that that meant that was the ultimate status and symbol that we are now full Americans, not qualified or hyphenated.

PF: How do you think Hawaii was different after statehood, or was it different?

TT: Well, like I mentioned, first the economic control, and then of course the political control that affected the government. And although, I think the first governor after statehood was still a Republican, Quinn, starting from the election of Governor Burns, the political control, of course, has been dominated by the Democratic Party of Hawaii. And you can see by the type of political candidates from all the whole racial spectrum are now able to get elected. Maybe sadly, at least for the Republicans, Hawaii is... for instance, we're the leading state in the nation to support President Obama. Not just because he's considered one of us, but the people of Hawaii, I guess, with their basic racial tolerance, have no problems with having a President who's black. Although there's so many millions of Americans that have a hard time living with that to this point, and actively seeking to have him removed.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.