<Begin Segment 10>

PF: Can you tell me more about Hung Wai Ching?

TT: Well, Hung Wai Ching is, again, another story. A real, you know, a make or break figure. I think the Japanese in Hawaii were so fortunate that a man like Hung Wai Ching, with who he was, and his attitudes, and the positions that he was put in, that really, I think, changed the outcome. If he didn't have the idealism and the foresight to conceive of the VVV movement, in other words, getting these Japanese kids who were fired to turn around and offer themselves for some other service in wartime, at a time when the most critical threat of invasion from Japan, the first three or four months of the war, all this occurred during that time. And the fact that he did succeed, and the VVV was put into action, and among other things that happened, I think the VVV helped to prevent the evacuation. There was such a fear and distrust and animus directed toward the Japanese immediately after Pearl Harbor, and the fact that this demonstration by Japanese when there was so much question about the loyalty of Nisei. Lot of haoles felt that they were, that they couldn't be trusted, that they were incapable of ever being Americanized. And that kind of atmosphere this VVV took place, and Hung Wai is behind all this. It was a real, you might say, a stroke of genius. And the fact that here he's Chinese, there's people on the mainland that are so in wonderment that, "Who is this Chinese man that was willing to go out and stick his neck out and help the Japanese?" I've seen letters like that. They want to know more about Hung Wai Ching.

Well, Hung Wai Ching is a local kid. He was brought up in the slums of upper Fort Street, and he grew up with all the kids in Hawaii, and then he became YMCA secretary of Nuuanu YMCA, which was really the social hub of the slum area of Honolulu. And so all these kids and mostly Japanese, so he had no question or qualms about whether these Niseis are loyal American. And he insisted on verbally articulating that from his position, which was he was the liaison between the military governor's office and the rest of the Japanese community. It was a key role, and here he is, what good fortune... California never had anybody like Hung Wai. And, in fact, Hung Wai, he said he paid the price. He told me a lot of these Chinese come up and told him, "Why are you helping these goddamn Japs?" He didn't have to, he never got paid for it. He really died a poor man. He never made anything out of this. I delivered the eulogy at this funeral, I don't know if you've seen it, but it's some of the things I'm telling you now. In fact, I'll try to find it and send it to you. But he was just one of a kind.

PF: Tell me about Shigeo Yoshida?

TT: Well, Shigeo Yoshida was maybe a sort of a godsend, too. Because among all the Japanese leaders, they were maybe ten years older than we were, so they were already established leaders in the community, Japanese community. He was a very brilliant man, brilliant. He was articulate verbally as well as as a writer. You know, the VVV petition, that classic petition, was written by him. But he was also a visionary and an idealist, and one that also yearned for a new and better Hawaii. So he funneled and channeled all of that toward, well, during wartime at least, to try to first of all assure that the Japanese community was loyal, and secondly, to try to assure a better future for the Japanese. And so luckily he happened to be a classmate, a schoolmate of Hung Wai, so they were close. They made the team because Mr. Hemenway saw fit to appoint both of them. And Hung Wai himself says, "Hey, Shigeo was the brains, I was just the mouthpiece." And so although Shigeo kept a low profile, and also that's another reason. Hung Wai said, "We made a good team because Shigeo had the ideas and the brains, and I was the front. So I could go places and do things and say things that Shigeo could never say because I'm Chinese. I'm not under the gun." And so they made an ideal combination, and Hung Wai recognized that and he said so. It's all in that statement, "Shigeo was the brains and I was just the mouthpiece," he says.

PF: What was Shigeo Yoshida's profession?

TT: Well, he was an educator. He was the principal of Liliuokalani at that time. And for a while he was so good that they promoted him to administration of the Department of Education, but he didn't like that. He wanted to get back into the classroom, and so he went back. I think he was principal... well, December 7th, he was principal at... anyway, the department of education, the superintendent was Oren E. Long, who later became our delegate. And Oren E. Long realized that the service and the contribution that Shigeo was making during the war, and he said, "Shigeo can spend as much time as he wants." So I don't know who was running the schools, but he was doing so much work not only as the part of the three men in the military governor's morale section, but he was also, I think, secretary of the Emergency Service Committee, which was this committee of Nisei leaders, and spending all that time. And he was being paid by the Department of Education for his principal's pay. Hung Wai, I don't know who was paying him. I think the YMCA. So apparently the YMCA was tolerant about him spending all this time. The third one was Charles Loomis, who I think strategically was a good choice because he's Big Five, but he was head of the Institute of Pacific Relations, IPR, which was founded by the YMCA. And so he was like a representative of Frank Atherton. And Frank Atherton is one of the big figures in Hawaii who was very supportive of the Japanese during the war. Not much is said of him except he was there, and I think more and more credit should be given to Frank Atherton.

PF: Did you know of him or did you meet him?

TT: No, I've never met him personally. But Hung Wai, of course, knew... Frank Atherton was very strong as a, I guess, missionary descendant, Big Five, yet he was practically, I guess, one of the founders of the YMCA here. Very strong backer of the YMCA and therefore... you know, the YMCA, for instance, offered its facilities as a, I guess, the home and headquarters of the Emergency Service Committee. They were totally dedicated to supporting and helping out the Japanese in Hawaii during the war. Of course, Hung Wai was there. John Young was another, he's a haole, old time secretary of the YMCA. And there were others, but I guess when you tell the story of the YMCA in Hawaii, most of its contributions all flowed out of the normal YMCA, not the Central Y. It was sort of segregated. Central Y was for the haole kids predominately. And Nuuanu Y was for the slum area kids. Not so subtle form of segregation. But were we on the subject of Hung Wai yet?

PF: Yes, you can still continue if you more to stay about him.

TT: Well, yeah, I think somebody said it pretty clearly: would there have been a VVV without Hung Wai? I don't think there was. And if there were no VVV, how much would the course of history, war history in Hawaii taken place? Without the VVV happening, which VVV occupied the eleven months, the gap between the Pearl Harbor attack and the formation of the 442. Otherwise the VVV was like holding the fort, keeping the situation stable. When you look at the overall picture, that's, to me, the significance and importance of the fact that there were this bunch of university kids who gave up their education to do this kind of labor work ostensibly to serve their country, but you know, basically as a demonstration of showing that Niseis were loyal.

PF: Who was in that group with you under the tree at the UH campus?

TT: I don't know. I can't remember any specifics, and so far I've met nobody who was there with me. But I was one of eight, nine or ten people that Hung Wai Ching addressed. I remember pretty vividly what Hung Wai said and did to inspire these very downhearted, dejected guys to turn around and go volunteer.

PF: Do you remember who else was with you in the ROTC?

TT: Oh, yeah. That one is, I can trace that very clearly, not only a big group photograph of Company B of the ROTC, which became Company B of the Hawaii Territorial Guard, it was just the wholesale transfer and transformation of ROTC to HTG. And through recent research, we've uncovered a list of all of the Nisei who served in the Hawaii Territorial Guard, and ninety-nine percent of them are university ROTC kids. And so all the names are there, and so I can tell you.

PF: Name a couple.

TT: Who was in it?

PF: Yeah, name a few.

TT: Well, like Edward Nakamura was one, Herbert Isonaga...

PF: Herbert's family was the family your grandfather came over, or your father...

TT: No, no, Herb Isonaga.

PF: Oh, you said Shimo, I'm sorry.

TT: Yeah, Harry Tanaka, oh, just the whole slew of them went on to, they were the 160 or so that volunteered, signed the petition for the VVV. But they were all in the HTG, and a lot of them were in Company B, which happened to be the ROTC company that I was first sergeant of. So I knew them. All the names are there if you want to know.

PF: So going back to Hung Wai and Shigeo Yoshida and Hemenway, when you came back after the war, did you keep in touch with them, did you stay involved with them?

TT: Oh, yeah. Hung Wai Ching, after the VVV disbanded to go volunteer, then the 442 became his baby. And you've read and heard about how he even went to Washington, D.C. to see the War Department to try to move the 442 training out of the South into a more racially tolerant area. He didn't succeed in that, but... and then he'd come home and he'd go to all these gatherings and talk about how the boys were doing in Camp Shelby and all that. And then after the war, he headed movements... besides personally helping guys, he also formed the scholarship aid groups to help the veterans continue their education, which, of course, combined with the GI Bill of Rights, was just a boom. That was a real game changer if you're talking about the postwar impact of the Nisei experience. He helped guys get jobs, and he just, yeah, his name is a household name among the Nisei. And all of this, he never benefited financially. He did it 'cause that's what he wanted to do. And even to his dying day, his closest associations were with the VVV boys.

PF: When did he pass away?

TT: Oh, it must be at least ten years ago.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.