<Begin Segment 15>

TI: So we've been doing this for two hours, and so I want to just come back to you. Any reflections? When you think about your life, your career... and I do mean it, I am in awe of what you've worked in, how did that happen?

SA: Well, if I look back, I would never replace this with anything else. I mean, I think a lot of it is timing and being at the right place at the right time, because I don't think I'm any smarter than anybody else.

TI: But there were other men and women who were at the right place at the right time, but they chose you. Why you? What happened? What was the dynamic that made you sort of the key person in so many places?

SA: In a way... in a way I was a rebel. I was always looking for a change. And companies need to make changes, and if you don't make changes, you can fail; you'll go out of business. So I guess I chose to always try to be on the leading edge of change. And I had the vision, I was able to get the vision to do that at the right time.

TI: Interesting. When you said that, it reminded me of some of the high tech experiences I had. So I was at Microsoft when it was a small company, under a thousand, and when you talked about people who like change, they were there. But then corporations change, and at some point when they get really large, that ability to innovate and change really is harder.

SA: Yes.

TI: Did you see that in your industry in terms of places like Lockheed?

SA: Yes. In fact, the companies that couldn't change begin to fall down.

TI: You see it in the high tech especially. But I don't see it as much in the big aerospace.

SA: Well, let me tell you something. Aerospace has gotten so bureaucratic, it's in bad shape. But it's not just the industry, it's the government. The industry and the government all work together, and the government has become too bureaucratic. I mean, you could see it today, it's just totally bureaucratic. That's why we can't get anything done. We developed those systems in the early days, the most complex system, in three to four years. Now it takes over ten years. And what happens is, when you have... see, in order to do something in two to three years, you put together the best team you can and you hold them to the fire and say, "You're not going to leave this program until you're successful." But in three to four years you can do that. You can hold the team together. You stretch it out ten years, guess what? You got three generations of people. Every time you change people, you got to relearn. Not only that, but they want to reinvent again. You'll never get through.

TI: So there's almost like this magic time...

SA: And you can see that with our internet explosion that occurred in Silicon Valley, same thing.

TI: So it's almost a myth to have a five year, ten year plan...

SA: You don't want to have a ten year, five, ten year.

TI: You need more like a nine month or eighteen month kind of time.

SA: I mean, we did a lot of things, anywhere from two years to four year period. There were major breakthrough programs. I mean, we went from a mechanical system to a total electronic system.

TI: What's interesting in the high tech area, two to four years is too long now. The cycles are now, they talk about three months.

SA: Well, you know why it is. I've gone through three levels of integration. We started at mechanical, electrical integration, where we integrated mechanical devices and electrical devices. Then we went to a digital software world, and we integrated at the digital level and at the software level. We went then to the information level, and we now integrate everything at the information level. And when you do that, you can do things much faster. Every time you go up this ladder, you do things faster. Now, however, to get to that information level, there is an infrastructure under there.

TI: Right, exactly. And people don't understand that.

SA: And if that infrastructure doesn't get improved with time, you won't be able to do the integration at the information level. And that's where we're going to begin to fall down.

TI: And that's where my career was, in more that software level.

SA: See, what's happening here is I look at the whole economic failure that occurred with the financing world. People built algorithms, built complex computer programs, and the people that run the computer programs have no idea how it was built.

TI: Yeah, I know that for a fact. I've talked to some of those people. Interesting. At the beginning of this interview, I mentioned, I think I noted that you were eighty years old.

SA: Yes.

TI: And during the break you mentioned that you have, like, a new venture you're working on?

SA: Yes, yes.

TI: Tell me about that. What's your mind thinking about right now?

SA: Well, you know Ko Nishimura?

TI: Yes, I know Ko.

SA: Okay. Ko and I founded a company, and what we're doing is revolutionizing farming.

TI: So how are you going to revolutionize -- or how much can you tell me? Some of this might be proprietary, but tell me what you can.

SA: Well, let me tell you, we're doing everything indoors.

TI: So like hydroponics?

SA: No, no. Soil.

TI: Indoor...

SA: Soil.

TI: Indoor farming.

SA: So what we have done is we have developed a multidiscipline team of farmers, engineers, biologists, and we have synthesized the art of growing plants with lights, soil, and controlled irrigation, and this is a living soil system.

TI: Interesting.

SA: So we're bridging physical science and biological science together. And if you look at the academic world today, biological science and physical science are still very stovepipe.

TI: Interesting. Well, off camera I'm going to ask you more about this. So, Sam, anything else? We covered a lot, and there's a lot more, but we're now past two hours, so I want to end this for you. So any last words for this interview?

SA: No... I've had a very interesting life. It's been a very rewarding life for me, and I guess I would never trade it for anything.

TI: Very good. Well, again, thank you so much for doing this interview.

SA: Well, thank you for being able to work with me, and hopefully this will do, be of benefit to other people.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.