<Begin Segment 1>

KN: So today is February 20, 2012, and we are interviewing Mr. Maurice Yamasato of Honolulu, Hawaii. So have a few questions if you do not mind me asking. So can you first introduce yourself and describe your family members and maybe the order of brothers and sisters in your family as well as your parents?

MY: Okay. I'll start off by saying I'm Maurice Yamasato, born in Lima, Peru. So actually, I was known as Manuel Yamasato until I became naturalized and naturally put on a so-called "American name." I have seven sisters, and I'm the only son. So in Japanese they would say kuroushita, you know, hard time. But anyway, my dad was... my mom and dad was born in Okinawa, and when my dad was seventeen years old, he moved over to Peru, immigrated to Peru to become a worker in a plantation, but he and four others decided they didn't want to work in a plantation. So as soon as they landed, they made their way to the city of Lima. And that's where they, I guess, worked, and later on he owned a restaurant and a dry goods store. So by the time he was thirty-one years old, he was very successful as a restaurant man and dry goods. So he decided to fly over to Okinawa and get married. So that's where he married my mother, who that time, he considered, when he saw her, which was the sister of -- I'm sorry, friend of his sister, the most beautiful girl he'd ever seen. And although she was eighteen, convinced her to marry him. And so she was eleven years younger. I can't do the math right away.

Anyway, so she, my mom didn't want to be married to a farmer in Okinawa, so (she) decided to go with this successful businessman in Peru. So they had two children in Okinawa, Kimiko and Eiko. And my mom and dad flew (...) to (Peru) and waited for Kimiko, Eiko, and Grandmother to fly over to Lima, Peru. Not fly, I'm sorry, sail over. Anyway, what happened is the war broke out, World War II, so my grandmother and the two girls were stranded in Okinawa and my parents couldn't see them until sixteen years later, after the war. So anyway, my two oldest sisters sort of went through the war, not good memories, hiding in the caves and all that. And later on they graduated from high school and then (sailed) over to Hawaii.

And in meantime, my parents was having a hard time going through the intern camp. What happened was you heard the story about how the Peruvian government made a deal with the American government to use the Peruvian Japanese as prisoner of war exchange for families in Japan. So anyway, the word was out that they were coming over. Americans were getting families from Peru. So my dad was hiding in a room or in an attic, but like my mom said, impatient guy. So anyway, he got caught and was kidnapped and taken to Panama on to U.S. as a, like a prisoner of war. And then they asked my mom (if she wanted to join him). And by then, there were three of us: Florinda, myself, Manuel, and Rosa, the three of us. Anyway, we had to join my dad, who was in Crystal City, Texas. So that's where my mom and the three of us sailed over, and then met my dad and we stayed there for three years. But we were fortunate that we weren't sent to Japan for prisoner of war exchange. In the meantime, I had another sister, Fumiko, who was born in Crystal City, Texas.

And then when the war ended, we couldn't go back to Peru. My dad lost his restaurant and store and a beautiful house. He had maids and everything, you know, kind of well-to-do guy. Then no place to go, so he was fortunate to have his sister living on Hawaii, you know, Kapaa, Kauai. So instead of going to New Jersey, Seabrook Farms, as the others, (...) they asked him if he wanted to go back to Okinawa, which was crazy, it's just war-torn, or Japan. So he opted to go to Kapaa, Kauai. Okay, he went there penniless. I still remember the only money he had was paper money, the currency that's used in the camp, which was worthless, right? So he had to go into pig farming like all Okinawans, they became pig farmers. And then he worked for the cannery as a janitor or custodian. He was the lowest person in the cannery, cleaning the yard, but he was very thankful he had a job at ninety cents an hour. Can you imagine? Ninety cents an hour. And he had to raise two more daughters. So there was two more that was born on Kauai, Margaret and Mary. So total of six in Hawaii, and two in Okinawa. He had a hard time meeting, I mean, having ends meet. So besides raising pigs, hog farm, he had a banana farm. Not a farm, actually, just an acre of bananas that I used for my college money.

But anyway, coming back to the pig farm, we had about, at the high peak, about fifty hogs, and I just hated being a pig farmer because ever since kindergarten -- I'm sorry, elementary school 'til I was in college, I used to go day to day, we used to go after school or late to pick up garbage.

KN: You were buta kau kau?

MY: Yeah, buta kau kau man. I don't know if you heard that buta kau kau man? I used to wear rubber boots, we had a pickup truck, and I had to run to the house and pick up this pail of garbage. This was prior to the garbage disposal days, so there were a lot of --

KN: How big was the pail, about?

MY: About...

KN: Like it could be a gallon?

MY: No, no, bigger. About three gallon.

KN: And people would put this... so how often during the week did you actually pick this up when they left it out for you folks?

MY: They left it out and every other day, two days. So by then... yeah, two days after. And of course I remember in high school, by then you notice girls, right? And I hated going to this certain girl's house because sometimes she'd be out in the back porch doing something, and I'd have to run over and grab the pail, but I would just dilly dally and fix my boots and bend over like I'm doing something, and my dad would just get upset. He'd say, "Nani ka? Hayaku, hayaku." "Hurry up, hurry up." So finally when I'd see her going into the house, I would run in and just grab the pail and get out of there as quick as I can.

KN: So how many houses would you actually have to visit? This was after school, is that correct?

MY: Yes, after school. The neighborhood, so at least twenty. And then later on we had a good client, a restaurant, so it made it easier. We could get quantity at one crack. But still, it wasn't a fun job. So my dad said, "If you don't go to college, you'll end up doing this." And anyway, so my dad was a hard-working man. Very, very hard-working man from sunup to sundown.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

KN: Can you describe, first, what is your dad's name, your father's name, and can you describe, you said he was a very hard-working man, so I'm thinking and imagining him back in Okinawa and thinking, looking for opportunities. And why would he go to somewhere like Peru out of all the other places that he could possibly immigrate to?

MY: Well, from Okinawa to Peru they were asking for immigrants. And, of course, being seventeen years old, the excitement of traveling, too. And then of course, going to Kauai wasn't by choice, and he was poor, worked hard. But the nice part about it, he always said it's a blessing in disguise. And he really had a positive attitude, I mean, sense of humor. So I find that very, like our childhood was... although we were poor, but a lot of fun. He'd always joke around.

KN: Could you describe your father's family? Was he the only son, was he the second son? And sorry, what was his name? Sorry, I missed that.

MY: Oh, yes. Toshio. Toshio Yamasato. In Peru, he was called Alejandro.

KN: Can I ask why?

MY: Well, you need a Spanish name, right? So his name was Alejandro.

KN: Not Tomas?

MY: Well, there's lot of Tomas. But I wish he'd named me Alejandro instead of Manuel, but anyway... he had two brothers, and they also moved to Peru later. And they still, of course, lived there and died there, but they weren't shipped over to internment camp because they weren't married at that time.

KN: So your father, was he the eldest?

MY: Yes, he was.

KN: And his family, that's interesting that your, the family allowed him to immigrate as the eldest son. Usually, in many families, it's always the second son or the third son. So your father goes to Peru. Did he speak Spanish or did he take Spanish classes, language classes before he actually went, or he just, "I'm gonna go there and I'm going to make a living"?

MY: Yes, the attitude was just go there and make a living. And he spoke fluent Spanish. So he'd help me out when I took Spanish in high school.

KN: Really?

MY: Yeah, because he spoke fluent Spanish, and yeah, he could communicate with anybody in Spanish.

KN: So I imagine your dad, he's this Japanese immigrant coming from Okinawa, and then he's going to Peru. And he opens up, you mentioned, actually, a number of businesses, a restaurant and dry goods store. What kind of restaurant was it? Was it one that featured Okinawan delicacies or more Peruvian food?

MY: Yeah, it was more Peruvian, and it was a small restaurant, cafe, not a big restaurant. More like a, yeah, cafe.

KN: And the other store you mentioned was a dry goods store. So what kind of items were sold there and who did it cater to? Was it for Peruvians, was it for the immigrants?

MY: It was more for Peruvians, imported things, items from I don't know where. But I remember more fabric, dry goods. Interesting part was -- I'm sorry.

KN: No, go ahead.

MY: Interesting part was my wife and I went over to Peru twice. Of course, we went to see the place where he had his store, the dry goods. And right now it's like a ghetto. So like my dad said, "Oh, it's good that we came over to Hawaii."

KN: So here's your dad, a self-made man, and he didn't want to marry any of the Japanese Nisei women that were actually there, he said he wanted to go back to Okinawa to meet a beautiful woman. Why would he go back to Okinawa to look for a wife? Why not meet a nice Nisei that might have been born there?

MY: Oh, you mean something that I did? I mean, I didn't go to Okinawa to find my wife. [Laughs] No, anyway, that's a good question. I don't know, I should have asked him why. I think it would be exciting to see him marry a Latin American, right? But...

KN: So he saw your mother and did they know each other before? They were family friends...

MY: No, no, he didn't.

KN: And so your father saw this beautiful woman, younger than him. And he fell in love and he proposed. And he... how long did he, he must have stayed for quite a while actually in Okinawa. They had two children?

MY: Right, two children, right. He actually stayed there, must be about three years.

KN: And then he moved back.

MY: Back to Peru with my mother.

KN: Leaving the two children behind to be cared for by his mother-in-law.

MY: No, mother.

KN: Oh, his mother.

MY: Yeah. And they were planning to come over right away to Peru, to join them in Peru.

KN: And then the war broke out.

MY: Right, and they were so-called "stranded."

KN: So in the meantime, while this was happening, and few more children were born, including you and your other sister. So now there's four children. And you had never actually met your other two sisters.

MY: 'Til...

KN: Until after the war.

MY: Right. Until Eiko was sixteen and the other was eighteen, Kimiko was eighteen.

KN: So were you, as you were growing up, you knew you were the eldest and you knew you had elder sister. So did you see photographs of them? I'm trying to process it. I mean, how would you grow up knowing that there's actually more siblings, more sisters?

MY: Well, somewhere in my mind I kind of knew they were going to come over. And as a child, you don't think too deep anyway. I'm thinking about baseball or something else.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

KN: And so you're growing up, and how old were you when your father was actually taken away that you mentioned?

MY: I think I was about three years old. So my memories of the camp is just spotty. Nothing heavy.

KN: So you remember your father leaving, then you and your family then reuniting with him in Crystal City, Texas.

MY: Uh-huh.

KN: And you were maybe about three or four. And although you say you have spotty memories, as a child, what do you remember from Crystal City, where you then make a voyage to camp itself.

MY: Well, actually in camp I remember, I could clearly see the barbed wire, you know, the fence, the high fence, and the mounted police behind the fence. But I didn't think we were inside a prison. And there was an incident about an armadillo that got into the village, I mean, the camp. And how everybody chased it down, and the men caught it and took it to the taxidermist.

KN: How big was the armadillo? I mean, you've never seen...

MY: Well, at that time, it seemed huge, yeah. I really don't know... not like a monster. I thought it was interesting and fun. And the other one was, traumatic incident that I told my wife was where they had a, so-called swimming pool, community pool, and they were cleaning that area because a lot of, what do you call that, moss, whatever. And I stepped into the pool and I just started sliding down toward the drain, and to this day it's a mental scar. The drain was huge and I felt like I was just going into an endless pit, 'til somebody, a hand grabbed me and saved me from that huge drain. It probably was a small drain, but in my mind...

KN: So the pool, was it just dug out or was it lined?

MY: It was lined, concrete pool, round. And I guess the community used it a lot, so it was fun to go there.

KN: So were there a lot of other children there? So you were with a number of your sisters. Do you folks remember playing with other children, or was it just you and your sisters?

MY: No, no, other children. So there was a roped area for the shallow where the younger children played. I don't think I knew how to swim then.

KN: Do you remember how... where did you live and what were the living accommodations? I mean, would you have to share a room with your siblings, your sisters, was it one large room? Do you remember any of that?

MY: It was, felt like it was a one-bedroom unit, of course, small. And even on Kauai we had a two bedroom house, and with six siblings we'd sleep in the living room and we had a futon in the living room and the bedroom. But you don't think anything about it when you're growing up. Everything is fun.

KN: And what language did your parents actually speak or teach you folks?

MY: Oh, yeah. My parents spoke Japanese mainly. And no English. So that's why I told my wife I was a kindergarten dropout because I didn't speak any English. So when I went to Kapaa Elementary School, kindergarten, and the teacher told the other kids to have Manuel join them in the Cowboy and Indians game, you know, everybody shooting up a storm. And they said they heard a funny-sounding gun.

KN: Do you know what it sounded like? Do you remember?

MY: I don't remember.

KN: You don't want to remember. [Laughs]

MY: But they all stopped playing to listen where the sound came from. And it was my gun that sounded so different. So they started laughing and started teasing me. The next day I refused to go to school, and for the next couple of weeks I didn't go to school, and I was a kindergarten dropout. And my dad, being a strict... you know, Japanese-style, you got to go to school, used to give me dirty lickings.

KN: "Rubber slipper discipline."

MY: Oh, yeah, whatever. Hand, whatever. But anyway, I refused to go to school. And interesting, later on I met my buddy who told me that story also. So I told him, "So you're the one that caused me to drop out of school."

KN: Mental trauma.

MY: Mental trauma, it's a mental scar.

KN: But he still remembers that incident, too.

MY: Yeah.

KN: Decades later.

MY: Yeah, but anyway, so the following year I did go to first grade, so kept on line.

KN: So camp was okay for you folks.

MY: Camp, right. You only remember good things. And plus, my parents were always positive. Even after, they don't talk about the hard times in camp, or about losing his business and why did this happen, he was always positive, always sense of humor. Kind of joke around. And like he said, yokatta, blessing in disguise. When he got his citizenship -- when I was in seventh grade, I still remember the photo they took with the American flag and all that, and they studied really, really hard to know the Bill of Rights and all these things that I don't know. But they did pass the exam, so we became naturalized, yeah.

KN: So I'm imagining your experiences in the camp, and there's a lot of good times.

MY: Lot of good times.

KN: And in the meantime, you're having other siblings being born. So your family is slowly increasing even in the camp.

MY: Right, right.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

KN: And so once the war ends, and do you remember anything else about your parents saying anything about what they were gonna do, what was gonna happen to you folks, what were the choices?

MY: No, nothing at all. It seems like we were just traveling. Maybe that's why I love to travel. [Laughs] But it seems like just an excursion going here and there.

KN: So there were other Peruvian Japanese who were there, and as you mentioned, many in fact did go to Seabrook Farms up in New Jersey. And your parents didn't want to do that because...

MY: Too cold.

KN: Too cold, because they had grown up in the temperate climate of Okinawa and Peru. And other people had gone to parts of Chicago and tried to make it to the West Coast. And so your parents, and they didn't have a lot, they didn't want to go back to Okinawa. So can you tell the story of why or how they came to Kauai?

MY: Well, actually, it's because of my auntie, Matsu Tengan, that's my dad's younger sister, lived in Kauai. And she told us to come over, and that's where we were so grateful for all the sponsors like Kuhio Grill, Charlie Miyashiro's family.

[Interruption]

KN: So I'm imagining... so you mentioned sponsorship. So to come, because your parents were technically characterized as "illegal aliens"...

MY: "Illegal aliens."

KN: They really had kind of a limited areas or opportunities where they can actually go. So your father's sister was already here in Hawaii on Kauai. And she organized sponsors, sponsorships?

MY: No, she had to find somebody with money, financially stable condition, to sponsor us. So the Charlie Miyashiro family of Kuhio Grill became our sponsor.

KN: So they were willing to sponsor two adults and six children.

MY: Right.

KN: Oh, no, wait. Four children

MY: Four, that's right, four.

KN: Because two were later born on Kauai.

MY: Right, right.

KN: And so imagining your aunt, and could you explain again how she came to Kauai because in your family, she was actually number four out of five?

MY: No, she was the second oldest.

KN: Oh, okay, so she was in between.

MY: Right.

KN: And I guess I'm amazed that so many children actually kind of immigrated to different places.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

KN: And so your aunt is there with her husband, they have arrived because they wanted opportunities or possibly jobs. And they went to Kauai, sponsored your folks, and you moved to a certain location on Kauai. Can you tell us about that and describe it?

MY: Kapaa?

KN: Where is that?

MY: Kapaa, Kauai. Yeah, very good memories, and I still have ties to Kauai, Kapaa, I'm proud of that place. There were very supportive families there to help my parents. Okay, the one that comes to mind is the Furugen family, Minoru Furugen family. They owned the Quality Market at that time, and they gave credit to my parents who couldn't pay for groceries, but they gave them credit. And I remember they're telling my dad that they know that the kids will pay the, what do you call, the debt later on. So they had confidence in my dad. And come to think of it, the Quality Market right now is the Big Save shopping center in Kapaa. So we have good memories of that family, and to this day feel very grateful, how they treated my parents and us.

KN: What part of the town did you actually live in? I mean, it's small, but it's big. There's different areas.

MY: Yeah, the area that we lived was called, by the rubbish pile. That sounds funny but it's close to the dump. Oh, they call it landfill now or what other nice terminology, but those days, "Where do you live?" "Oh, by the Kapaa rubbish dump." We had a big farm there, close by, bananas.

KN: So your parents didn't work on the sugar plantations there, but they did work in the canneries.

MY: Right.

KN: So your father, you mentioned, worked for ninety cents an hour and he did various jobs. And still, though, I mean, your family was pretty busy because you had to support so many family members. Did your mother work?

MY: My mother was a seasonal worker, where when they had a pineapple season, she worked at the cannery. And then come home and do the farming also.

KN: What kind of job did she do at the cannery, do you remember?

MY: Yeah, she was a packer. (...) After Ginaca, you go down and the trimmers and then the packers. I worked in the cannery also on a Ginaca machine.

KN: Okay, so what is a Ginaca machine for people who are not familiar with that?

MY: Oh, yeah. That's an interesting invention where it's a core, it peels the pineapple and cores it also, (to get it ready for the "trummers.")

KN: So you just push the pineapple in the machine.

MY: Yeah, right. There's a conveyor belt that goes through where you push the (pineapple on to it). Very, very boring, but yet, I think it helped me because I did a lot of daydreaming, so I used to dream about good things, and all those dreams came true.

KN: You mentioned you either -- how long, by the way, were these work shifts?

MY: Eight hours.

KN: Eight hours, so you were just packing, just feeding in pineapples. You mentioned you either become a good dreamer, but you also said that you could also become other things. Do you remember what you said to me? You could be a good singer?

MY: Oh, yeah. Or people who sing, love to sing, we have to sing loud and strengthen your voice. Yeah, so there are a lot of good singers from Kapaa from the canneries. But I was a dreamer.

KN: So you were doing this from how old?

MY: I started working in the pineapple field from, was fourteen years old.

KN: What was your job then?

MY: That time picking pineapple, or they called it hoe hana, but basically picking pineapple. Fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, and then later get elevated to work in the cannery.

KN: I've talked with different people who actually worked in the fields and the cannery, did they separate men and women? Because sometimes they said, "Oh, you could meet people in the cannery," the girls I think worked there.

MY: It was separated. The girls worked where, you know, the trimming, (the) guys were in the dirty areas or stacking cases.

KN: So were your sisters, you said you were working, so maybe after school during high school, were your sisters also employed or did they also help out or maybe do some chores around the house? Because both families, both parents were actually working.

MY: Right. So the ones that could work in the cannery started working at the cannery. I remember my sisters, the older ones, worked as waitress. The younger ones, I don't know. I already left for college, so I don't know what they did. [Laughs]

<End Segment 5> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

KN: And so by the time you folks had arrived in Kauai. Then you actually met, for the very first time, your two older sisters and your grandmother, who had moved from Okinawa. Can you describe their reunion and how did that happen? I mean, I don't think it could be that here's your father, "Oh, here are your two sisters and your grandmother that you've never seen before." Do you remember that?

MY: We knew we had sisters and (...) had photos of them, so it wasn't a surprise. The only thing, my sister Eiko (from Okinawa) was bossy and would... I don't know why, she got into this cleaning the ear thing, and she'd just clean our ear 'til it's, I felt like it was raw. And to this day, she's still... what's a nicer word for... I guess bossy. But we're on a good, loving terms.

KN: So here are your sisters coming over, and your grandmother, and now all of you are now a family of eight, plus your grandmother's nine. And you folks were all in a sense working or going to school. And your father, you mentioned, was insistent on you guys doing well in school. He wanted you to go to kindergarten. And you mentioned something about the first grade, you just automatically went into first grade, or you did actually return to school. But your father was very interesting in the fact that he encouraged you, as you mentioned, all of you to do well in school. Can you describe, why did your dad feel this way? What was the system that you folks had set up that one would go to school and support the others?

MY: Oh, yeah. My mother graduated from high school in Okinawa, which was equivalent to college. She went to an all-girls school. So it was kind of automatic, after we graduated we'd go to college. But the way they did it was interesting because we thought everybody did it. All the money that I earned, I was a newspaper boy delivering newspaper, all that money, cannery money, went to the family kitty. And when the oldest one went to college we would help. I was in the middle, so they helped me going to college. And when I graduated from college, I sent my money to the ones below me, the two youngest. And we kind of, like a leapfrog. And it worked out really good. We all managed. Of course there was, one sister was a smart one so she had scholarships. So that helped. But we kind of played leapfrog.

KN: All eight children graduated from high school?

MY: Right, right.

KN: As a Nisei family.

MY: Yeah. That was kind of automatic that we did that.

KN: So what, can you describe what your siblings or sisters did, so they go on to college, and what did they become or what did they do?

MY: That was interesting. Because my mom wanted everybody to be schoolteachers. To this day -- I'm sorry, she passed away, but she wanted me to be a schoolteacher. So the oldest one, Kimiko, is... what was she?

[Interruption]

MY: Yeah, so she became a part-time, well, she graduated from La Sierra University.

KN: Where was that?

MY: La Sierra University in California. And she became a schoolteacher basically. And the second one, she worked for TRW, a computer company in California. And the third one graduated from Chico State college, became a teacher. And I went to University of Hawaii, then Rosa attended University of Kansas and is an occupational therapist. And the next one, University of Hawaii med tech. Second from the last, Margaret, Washington State University, schoolteacher, and the last one, University of Hawaii, schoolteacher. (Three) married schoolteachers.

KN: Fulfilled your mother's dreams.

MY: Right, right.

KN: And was your wife a schoolteacher?

MY: That's right, she's a retired schoolteacher. So I made my mom happy.

KN: So imagining, looking at your family, that's so impressive. Your mother and father must have been so proud by the accomplishments of all the children. I mean, they went to high school, they graduated from college, they've done well professionally, and you were describing their names, that's so interesting. Some of them had Japanese names because they were born in Japan, and then there's a middle group of you folks that had Spanish names, and then the last two that had more American, Mary and Margaret.

MY: Portuguese names.

KN: Portuguese names. And you said your name was...

MY: Manuel.

KN: Right. And how did that change to Maurice?

MY: Well, that's a little touchy story, but...

KN: Oh, sorry, sorry.

MY: No, no, no. Basically, they said if I go to California, I had an uncle, so-called "Americanized uncle," American uncle, that gave a scary story to my dad that if I go to California for college or work, they would consider me a "wetback." At that time I didn't know what was a "wetback." And I wouldn't be able to get a job, this and that, so put an American name. So I had an uncle Morris Shinsato who was judge, who was a lawyer and became a judge on Kauai. So my dad said, "Oh, so change your name to, like Uncle Morris and change to Morris so you become smart like him." So I didn't want to spell it M-O-R-R-I-S at the time, had Morris the Cat, you know, TV commercial?

KN: Yeah, the black and white cat.

MY: So I changed the spelling to M-A-U-R-I-C-E, Maurice, which I think got more laughs from my classmates: "Maurice, what kind of name is that?" But anyway, so that's why my dad changed it to Maurice.

KN: But does he call you Maurice or Morris?

MY: Oh, Morris. Actually, it's Morris.

KN: He does call you Morris?

MY: Yeah.

KN: Okay, so you folks are living on Kauai, and then eventually, you mentioned that every so often, though, because you folks were considered "illegal aliens," you had to check in?

MY: Every year we had to come to Honolulu, which cost my parents money, and we had to register in the immigration office and then fly back to Kauai.

KN: And eventually, though, your parents adopted or embraced American citizenship?

MY: Oh, they were very, very proud to be American citizens. And like I said, they always said, "blessing in disguise," and they've been to Peru a couple of times.

KN: And have the rest of you also returned?

MY: Well, I've been there twice, I'm very glad.

KN: How was it?

MY: I'm very glad I live in Hawaii. The more I travel, the more I enjoy Hawaii. How was it? Interesting because the country, (Peru), the rich are very rich and the poor, very poor. And the poor population seems to be growing. I hope it turns around, it should be turning around.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

KN: So you've traveled to different places, and in part because of your job. So can you describe, so here you are going to University of Hawaii, and why did you become an architect?

MY: I guess I wasn't smart enough to be an engineer, and I wasn't free spirit enough to be an artist. I was a so-called, I felt like I was an artist in school, I would do the murals and design our senior prom program or whatever. But I couldn't picture myself being an artist. You know, those days, the hippie days, you've got to grow long hair and beard and all that. And there's no architects on Kauai, but I just happened to ask the counselor, "What's an architect?" and he said, "Oh, draw houses," or something. So I said, "Oh, that should be fun." So I tried it, and that's the best thing I did. To this day, I'm very glad I became an architect. It's fun.

KN: What do you love about your profession? What is the best part about it for you? When you say you love it, is it visualization, it's just imagining and creating that kind of vision that you have? If someone said to you, "Why should I become an architect?" and you had to sell them on the profession, what do you love about being an architect?

MY: Helping people fulfill their dream house. The fun part, I would say, makes you travel, you can travel a lot. I mean, which you're supposed to, to learn. I've been fortunate enough to have my clients take me to Dubai, Europe, it's all paid for... to riding the yacht. And traveled to, you mean the remote parts of the (world) doing military projects. I've been to Diego Garcia, a small little island off India and Africa where you can walk from one end to the other end in one day. But anyway, travel opportunities, creative, think creative, and well, the bottom line is you're helping people fulfill their dreams. And I get to be my own architect for my own house.

KN: So can you describe how you went from young architect to an established professional right now? Was it an easy path, did riches come quick and easy? I mean, I hear, I have an uncle who is an architect, and he said, "You do it for the love." And a lot of people have this misconception that you start off very wealthy, you work your way through the profession, you develop these skills. Is that true, can you describe how you grew in your profession?

MY: I guess you just have to, like your uncle said, love your work. And that's the advice I would give to young kids, I gave to my son and my daughter. Get into something that you just enjoy doing for free, and if somebody starts paying you because you're good at it, it's double the pleasure. It's twice the fun when you get well-paid, but (at) start off, nobody pays you because you're not good (vet), right? So for me, I feel like, number one, I enjoyed doing it.

KN: So how did you start your own firm? Was it something that you always dreamed of being your own boss or how did that come about?

MY: You know, I never thought of being my own boss. I just felt like I would be a valuable right hand man to my boss who was an architect. And this person, Thomas Wells, and Norman Lacayo, my mentors and my bosses. Anyway, like Tom Wells, when he moved to the mainland, to Aspen, he wanted me to go over. But then I just got married and I just loved to live in Hawaii. So he gave me a job that he needed to complete in Hawaii. So I thought I'd just finish that job and then work for another architect. But then once I did this house for this attorney and it turned out nice, somebody else came to see me, and then another commercial job, and it slowly just grew. And, of course, you grow, I mean, you climb up and then, boom, there's down because of economy situation. And then you climb up again and then down. But each time when you come down, you bounce up higher. So right now in this stage of life, in my professional career, I feel comfortable, and I would encourage people to go into architecture. And in our office we always have students, and we try to mentor them or they can see what we do, and if they like it, they can stay. If they don't like it, they can become a neurosurgeon and get to the next level, be a doctor. But architecture is fun. Basically it's fun.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

KN: You love your job, and as an architect, you mentioned that your wife's a schoolteacher. Would you mind describing how you folks met? That's two different professions. Were you folks introduced?

[Interruption]

MY: Well, actually we had a friend. When I say "we," my roommates and I, Alvin Tanaka and this guy Dennis Isa, okay, we rented a place and we had Dennis Isa go to a Japanese evening class to meet girls. And there he met this girl whose friend happened to be Jeanie, and that's how I got to meet her. So Dennis did a good job. [Laughs]

KN: Going to Japanese school for the rest of you folks.

MY: For us, just so we could meet good girls.

KN: I hate to say this, that strategy is still going on right now.

MY: Really? I thought we were original.

KN: Well, you folks may have been the groundbreakers, but I guarantee, there are young male students who specifically go to Japanese class, yeah.

MY: And one thing about Jeanie, I got to, so-called, give her credit, from a professional career, although we were, I had down times, she never told me to quit and get a real job. And like I say, she always was encouraging and she had her teaching job, which brought food to the table. Whereas mine was just up and down. But she never told me to quit. So that's where I got to be thankful, very supportive.

KN: And you folks have two children. Can you describe their names and something about them?

MY: Oh, good you mentioned because they always say, "Hey, Dad, we have names, you know." [Laughs] Anyway, Aaron... we have two, Aaron and Aolani. They're really, really good kids. Aaron, he did what he totally enjoys, he became a filmmaker and he went to Cal State Northridge. As soon as he came back, he had a short film -- not short film, a regular film, Blood of the Samurai, and it won a HIFF award.

KN: Hawaii International Film Festival.

MY: Right. And it sort of encouraged him to continue, and right now he's got projects going. He did Ninja EX, and he's been to Hong Kong, Japan, and he's got a lot of connections. I mean, very low key guy and a fun-loving guy. I wish I was like him, he can talk. I cannot talk. He's articulate. But anyway, my daughter, Aolani, of course, she got her master's degree from University of Washington in planning and landscape architecture. So I'm very happy that she got into a field that I'm in. So that means I was in...

KN: Do you folks work together?

MY: She's got her own company.

KN: Okay.

MY: Yeah, we work together, close together. And somehow she's smarter than I am. I'm more experienced, but yeah, nowadays, kids, they're smart. She's got two kids, Haley and Mia, and my son's got Lia and Sophie. Four grandchildren, great.

KN: So what is the best qualities that you love about your family members? You speak so highly of them. What is something that maybe you want to say to them?

MY: Keep their sense of humor. They really have got good sense of humor. I mean, somehow I'm always at the end of the what do you call?

KN: The butt of the joke?

MY: Yeah, right, right. [Laughs] But they keep things light and they love to have fun.

KN: How is it being a grandparent?

MY: I always kid her, I said, gee, if I knew there was such a thing as grandchildren, I wouldn't have children." Only joking. [Laughs] No, because grandchildren are a lot of fun. I mean, you don't have to discipline them, just do things, like if the parents tell you, "Don't give 'em chocolate," you can sneak them a chocolate.

KN: So it's the best thing because you can spoil them and you don't have to discipline them.

MY: That's right. And they're so loving. And right now, I don't know if I can say this, but my daughter and her family lives two doors away from us, so we're close. Two bedroom doors. Two bedroom doors, we live in the same house. So we get to see our two, Haley and Mia every morning, and they make my day.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

KN: So you're very blessed and you have so many wonderful things going on. You have a wonderful wife and great career and children and grandchildren. And you just kind of briefly referred to a number of your jobs that you've done. What are some of the jobs, maybe you can say, that you are the most proudest of in your career that you've done?

MY: I would say... well, my first commercial job which was the Hi Hing restaurant, they call it Diamond Head shopping center. I thought I put a lot of effort and it came out really good. But the one that I'm most proud of is the Hawaii Okinawa Center. It's for the community, and I did that pro bono. Like I said, from the heart, and I still look at it and I'm proud of it, and I'm very happy that I could have done that, I could have spent the time doing it.

KN: It's a beautiful building.

MY: Oh, thank you.

KN: And the amazing landscaping, it's such a great, practical... can you describe what it took to create that and what the building is supposed to symbolize?

MY: Oh, yeah, that's a fun one. No, it's really a community effort. We had a great committee, HUOA, and the committee raised ten million in two years at that time.

KN: And this was when, about...

MY: 1986. And I got to say, Ed Kuba, he did a great job in fundraising, and it was a lot of fun. And it was effortless, and actually, the whole idea was, it's sort of like a design like a turtle that represents long life. And Okinawans are known for longevity. So the design somewhat came out looking like a turtle, and of course, one building's supposed to be a little taller, so that's supposed to be the tsuru, the crane. So tsuru and the kame. And then, of course, the garden. I really wanted the garden to be, so-called, the focal point and inviting. So this good buddy of mine, Koichi Takakura from Okinawa, donated about four hundred thousand dollars to build that.

KN: I mean, it's a gorgeous garden. There's a waterfall and a koi pond, people go there to get their wedding photographs there.

MY: Right. And I had my son... got married there. The nice part about that garden, there's a bonsai plant, Okinawan pine, that my dad grew on Kauai. And we were able to ship it over and place it right in the center. And that's something that he wanted me to do because I was designing the center when he was alive, but he didn't get to see it completed.

KN: So the Okinawan center, it's really filled with meaning. And when you look at the symbolism of the various buildings and garden, and what's really also very wonderful, the front area of the entranceway, you also see the names of the peoples and the families that were so integral and part of it.

MY: Right.

KN: And the Okinawan community is so active. So are there other activities that you supported or have done for the community itself? Part of the festival that they have every year at Kapiolani Park?

MY: Oh, yeah, I was chairman way back when we had it at Thomas Square. And I still try to keep active, because it's a great organization. And nowadays you don't find any pure Okinawans, or there's a lot of Okinawans at heart. I mean, you can see it's growing, and main thing, it's part of the community and we have great leadership. Good training grounds for young people to see how working together, you can accomplish things. It's fun. And also, do it for fun. If it's not enjoyable, don't do it.

KN: Don't do it anymore.

MY: Yeah. But the main thing, it's enjoyable.

KN: Because it's gotten incredibly large. It used to be in the old town center, the craft fairs, and then it was at Thomas Square, and now it's over in Kapiolani Park. It's this huge community event with so many people involved in it every single year. It's impressive.

MY: And it's fun, exciting.

KN: It's fun.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

KN: Besides the Okinawan community, if you don't mind me mentioning this, you also showed me that there was a reunion book that you showed me for Japanese Peruvians?

MY: Oh, right, right.

KN: So what kind of community is that here in Hawaii? Is it a large community? Do you folks get together, are there reunions?

MY: Well, actually, it's a small community. But we have a reunion, this was, now we go to every four years -- two years, I'm sorry, two years. And we're having it this year over at San Francisco. And it's Peruvians that were incarcerated in Crystal City, Texas. And most of them kind of passed away, so it's more the second generation, but we just get together and maintain, well, fellowship, and see what we can do for others to have whatever... what do you call, like Grace Shimizu, she got her story to tell. But I'm sure, sooner or later... not sooner or later, but someday, the younger generation, I hope they'll remember what we did or what we went through. Like I said, so it doesn't happen again.

KN: So how many families are there now that come to these reunions? I'm thinking, I mean, it's been years. How many people do you approximately see at these?

MY: About fifty, at least fifty. And it's bigger, getting bigger each year.

KN: These are people that come from different places, Hawaii...

MY: Yeah, interesting. Yeah, from Okinawa, from Japan, mainland Japan, of course, mainland USA, and from Peru. That's it. Nobody from Africa. [Laughs]

KN: At this point, before I ask if Brian has any questions, is there anything that you want to share that maybe we haven't touched on or you'd like to bring up for future generations or maybe your family members, or just to say just for yourself at this point?

MY: Only thing... only thing is maybe attitude. Your attitude about life, thinking positive. We all go through hard times in life, but looking at the positive result, I mean, what can come out of it. Like, okay, for example, raising pigs wasn't fun, but I think it developed a lot of character in me and kept me humble. I mean, humble not by, not by choice, you know what I mean? It's just, can't help it. But attitude and kids' education is very important, travel.

KN: What are some of the best places you've been to? How many times have you been to Japan?

MY: Only sixty-nine times. [Laughs] But going to... funny, when you're young, you love to go to so-called "third world" countries. But as you get older, you like to go to nicer parts in the world. But that's all part of learning. So I think traveling is very important for young people.

KN: What's the best place you've been?

MY: Outside of Hawaii?

KN: Where is the best place? You've told me so many of these amazing travel stories.

MY: Well, places that's very different. I would say it was Machu Picchu, very spiritual, and very opulence to the max would be Dubai, and of course Europe, Italy, spent a month there, one whole month. The arts, like Venice, and you just, Europe is exciting.

KN: And it inspires your work.

MY: Right. And Japan is sort of, it's a different feeling. Not totally opposite, but it compliments Europe.

KN: Have you been back to your family's hometown in Okinawa?

MY: This last year, October, went there again. And kind of pictured myself running around there, but I'd rather run around here on Kauai.

KN: How come? I've never been to Okinawa.

MY: No, it's really, I would encourage or tell everybody to go to Okinawa. You got to see, it's similar to Hawaii, but people are, somebody when you look at them, they could pass for somebody's uncle or somebody's cousin. They look like very Hawaii people, local people. And very aloha spirit, or you could call it the Okinawan spirit.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

KN: And you still have fond memories of Kauai.

MY: Oh, yeah, Kauai, that's where I grew up, from kindergarten to... even now, I'm still part of it.

KN: Do you think Kauai has changed?

MY: Kauai? Of course, yeah. Whether the change is good or bad, but it changes, so you just got to accept it. And I have my thoughts of how to, sort of how to "improve" it, but...

KN: That's for a bigger story.

MY: Yeah. [Laughs]

KN: And you mentioned right now that you're building your dream home.

MY: Oops... no, no, it's...

KN: So you're still keeping active in your projects.

MY: Yeah, it's getting there, and I hope it turns out as so-called my "dream home."

[Interruption]

KN: I'm just so curious since everyone's story is so different. Because you're one of the few people that I've met... would you describe the Nakamura store? I've never seen it. You said you could picture it, but I've never... in Kauai. I've never seen it, and evidently it was this store that everyone knew about.

MY: Okay. Like the town of Kapaa and architecture on plantation days, it's almost like a western cowboy movie. There's a flat facade, but actually behind it is a sloped roof made out of corrugated metal. But the front is flat with a big sign, "Nakamura Store," I picture white trim. You walk in, it's almost like a (typical country store), very interesting to look at the shelves and you have all kinds of stuff.

KN: So it's like a dry goods or grocery store?

MY: Everything.

KN: Everything? So it was a true plantation store that had everything in there.

MY: Yeah, right, right. You know, (like Hasegawa General Store). That's a nice song, you probably can write a song like that of Nakamura store.

KN: How were the proprietors.

MY: There were nice.

KN: Oh, you don't have to say that. [Laughs]

MY: I mean, Paul, like I said, Mel... well, I didn't know Mel too much, but... well, I didn't know Paul, he was older. So (when you are young) you look up to older people. I thought because you admire the older guys, I thought he looked like maybe Clint Eastwood. I'm only kidding. [Laughs] Or Kevin Costner?

KN: No, he's definitely not Kevin Costner.

MY: But (Kapaa) was a nice town.

KN: We had to move because there was just, my grandfather felt there was opportunities beyond plantation work, work there. And then he moved to Hawaii and then he found real hard work. He also, someone had owned apartments, so he also collected...

MY: Oh, rent?

KN: Rent and also the pig slop. And you said you were doing that, my father remembers that, too. And you folks never got paid, it was just chores.

MY: But Kapaa town, everyone was really old fashioned. They didn't give (you a pain) shot when they pulled out teeth, and just chew on this gum and yank, just yank it out.

KN: So are all of you folks here?

MY: The what?

KN: Most of you folks are here, your brother and your sisters?

MY: No, I have... let's see...

KN: Some are, you're scattered.

MY: Two on Maui, Kimiko and Mary, there were two on Kauai, Florinda and Margaret, then let's see... three here, or four. Wait, that's nine. Yeah, four in Honolulu. (Eiko, Rosa, Fumiko, and myself). [Laughs]

KN: but it's such a blessing that you have your grandkids living with you folks.

MY: Oh, yeah, that's hundred percent. Like today we had breakfast with them. Yeah. And they, these kids are smart. Smarter than my days. [Laughs]

<End Segment 11> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.