<Begin Segment 1>

MN: Today is Tuesday, February 7, 2012. We will be interviewing Setsuko Evelyn Izumi Asano at the Centenary United Methodist Church. We have Tani Ikeda on video, and I will be interviewing, my name is Martha Nakagawa. So Setsuko-san, I want to start with your father's name. What was his name?

SA: Kango Izumi.

MN: Now, which prefecture was he from?

SA: Yamaguchi-ken.

MN: Can you share a little bit about your father's early life? Like when did the come to the U.S., where did he land?

SA: 1919 is I think when he came to Hawaii, went to Honolulu. And he married there. From there he came to San Francisco.

MN: What was he doing in Hawaii?

SA: Working for the newspaper, Shingo?

MN: Hawaii Hochi?

SA: (Yes, it was Hawaii Hochi)

MN: (...) And then it was in Hawaii that he sent for a "picture bride," for your mother?

SA: Right.

MN: You said 1919. Was it 1919 or 1914 that he went to Hawaii?

SA: (...) So then he came to California in 1919 then. I don't know. I don't know why 1919 in my mind.

MN: It's okay. Yeah, I think he came to San Diego in 1919.

SA: Oh, okay.

MN: According to the book you put together.

SA: I did a lot of research.

MN: I memorized the book. Do you know what he was doing at this Hawaii newspaper?

SA: I have no idea.

MN: Okay. Let me ask a little bit about your mother. What was her name?

SA: (...) Hisa Wakimura.

MN: Now your mother was very unusual for her time. Can you share a little bit about her early life in Yamaguchi-ken? What was her education like?

SA: Well, she was well-educated, was a valedictorian in her class. She went to a nursing school, became a midwife. She came from a family of all boys.

MN: So she must have been a tomboy.

SA: I think so.

MN: Your mother was involved with the Russo-Japanese War. Can you share that story with us?

SA: According to her, she was... I have no idea, but around 1904. She liked gory things; it didn't bother her to see wounded soldiers. And she did share the fact that one of the soldiers, thinking that they would have a wound, instead it was a ruptured appendix. So she did help in that.

MN: So did your mother share that she actually went out into the battlefield or was she in the hospital?

SA: She was in the hospital as far as I know.

MN: So your mother is a very highly educated female. Did she share with you why she decided to get married to somebody in the United States?

SA: In those days, you did what the family said to do. She was called to go, and she was sort of an adventuresome lady. Decided, okay, I'll go. Not knowing who she was going to marry. She (was) a typical "picture bride," so she had a picture of him. And it's interesting, she'd tell me how he took his picture in his three piece suit in front of a beautiful house. She thought it was his house, and it wasn't. And he was very short. She imagined to see a taller young man.

MN: But those kind of things are kind of common during that time, huh?

SA: Common, right. I think so. Not knowing...

MN: Yeah, in front of somebody else's house, yeah.

<End Segment 1> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 2>

MN: Now, so when your mother first came over here, did she arrive in Honolulu?

SA: I think so.

MN: Was your father able to afford a wedding?

SA: Well, I guess so because they were married (at a Congregational church) and the best man (or baishakunin), or who was with him was from the newspaper. The general manager or the manager of the newspaper. (Shingo-san).

MN: They were married in a (Congregational) church? Were they Christian, your parents?

SA: I don't know. They became Christians for the service, I imagine.

MN: So your father was working for this Hawaii newspaper. What was your mother doing in Hawaii, do you know?

SA: I don't know.

MN: But I guess quickly she had three children in Hawaii?

SA: She had three children.

MN: Kazuko, Chieko, Yaeko.

SA: Right.

MN: Now these are your three oldest sisters who were born in Hawaii when it was still a territory of the United States.

SA: Right.

MN: Did they have any problems about, because it was not a state yet, were they given U.S. citizenship, do you know that?

SA: I have no idea. I'm just assuming.

MN: So what happened to your three oldest sisters? Did they grow up in Hawaii?

SA: No, she sent two... all three back to Japan for the relatives to take care of while she (worked).

MN: So then from Hawaii, your parents moved to San Diego in 1919.

SA: They went to San Francisco first (teaching Japanese school).

MN: Oh, San Francisco, pardon me, okay. And then they went to San Diego.

SA: Right.

MN: And that's where your two other sisters were born, Toshie and Masako.

SA: Right. Del Mar.

MN: Del Mar. What was your father doing in Del Mar?

SA: Well, at that time he was farming, but you know, I like to say he was a jack of all trades, because he was even in the soy sauce business. That was... I don't know where. Then Del Mar he was farming, that I know.

MN: You were sharing this funny story about how your father didn't like to go to the outhouse?

SA: He was sort of a scaredy-cat, and so my mother would go with him every time carrying whatever weapon, whatever at that time. That's how he was.

<End Segment 2> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 3>

MN: And so from Del Mar, your family moved to Los Angeles. Do you know what he did in Los Angeles, your father?

SA: He was, let's see. Going back to Del Mar, that's when my mother was a midwife, right, so she would be at midnight delivering babies in Del Mar. When they finally went to Los Angeles, I think that's where he could have been in the soy sauce business. Then he went into the newspaper. Oh, then he was teaching Japanese school in San Francisco, going back.

MN: Which Japanese school was he teaching at?

SA: I don't know. All I know is that he had my oldest sister help him. They were both teaching maybe on their own, I have no idea.

MN: So your mother was doing midwife work in Del Mar.

SA: (Yes), and in Los Angeles.

MN: Tell me her stories of, she's got all these young kids herself, and you said these babies were born at night. How was she able to...

SA: She had a car, Model A, I think it was. She'd drive and take all the children and they'd be sleeping in the car while she did her work.

MN: Your mother is unusual in that she knew how to drive a car. Who taught her?

SA: I don't know. I guess my father did.

MN: Did your father go on these trips with her to do the midwife work?

SA: I don't think so. Like I said, he was a scaredy-cat.

MN: But I imagine, I mean, this is late at night, it's probably lonely roads...

SA: Exactly. She was very brave. A lot of these mothers were farmers and they didn't have any funds. She'd tell me how they'd pay their fee with vegetables. So that's how it was in those days.

MN: Also it was during the Great Depression.

SA: Depression, exactly.

MN: You know, in later years, did you ever meet anybody who was delivered by your mother?

SA: No, isn't that strange? I wish I did. She has very interesting stories, too. I can imagine she had like one infant, she said it was the saddest thing. He came out without an arm. You know, and then she had the breech babies, I don't know how she did all that, but she did.

MN: I'm sorry --

SA: Breech baby was, they're born upside down, feet first. That's pretty hard.

MN: Usually now it's cesareans, huh?

SA: Right. In those days, they didn't do all that.

<End Segment 3> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 4>

MN: And then I guess your father, you said, was in the soy sauce business in Los Angeles?

SA: Right, and then he sold that to the Jan-U-Wine Soy Sauce. Very nice gentleman, Korean man by the name of Mr. Hyun. I met him, he was a very nice man.

MN: And then you said after that he went into the newspaper business?

SA: I don't know what sequence, but yes, he did work in the newspaper.

MN: Which newspaper?

SA: Sangyo Nippo. It was right underneath Yamato Hall on Jackson Street in Little Tokyo.

MN: Did your father take you to the Sangyo Nippo office?

SA: Quite often.

MN: What did you get to do there?

SA: Well, just like other kids, play around. But I grew up in that sort of atmosphere, and we'd always go across the street to the little candy store. Shall we go into that?

MN: Yeah, tell us about this candy store.

SA: There was a little man who had like a cigar store, and I'd take my nickels there and get my candy bar. He was actually a lookout. Shall we go into that? Okay. Well, Yamato Hall had a, like a pool hall, and it was hidden, the stage would turn around completely like you see in the movies. And when he would see any police coming, he would ring the bell, and that would warn them and they'd quickly turn that stage around. So it's sort of interesting, that actually occurred.

MN: So this man is sort of the lookout, the man at the candy store.

SA: At the candy store, right.

MN: What was this man like? Was he kind of rough and tumble?

SA: No, he was a very nice man. I imagine him to be sort of tall in those days, I was young. So nice gentleman.

MN: So I guess Yamato Hall didn't get raided that much for the gambling joint?

SA: I have no idea. All I know is that just really interested me when I grew up to hear that.

MN: So, I mean, when you just look at it, Yamato Hall is a theater. Did you go and watch anything there, performances?

SA: On occasion, yes, when they had programs.

MN: What kind of programs did they have?

SA: They had, like, dances, recitals, the different schools.

MN: And can you share with us a little bit about Sangyo Nippo? What kind of newspaper was this?

SA: It was really mainly for farmers. And it was the only daily newspaper that came out (during the) day, so all the farmers could look at the pricing. That was the most unusual part. He would make many trips to Oxnard area to visit the farmers because they were, of course, always soliciting for ads. And that's what I remember a lot.

MN: When he went out to places like Oxnard, was it just a day trip or did he have to stay overnight? Was he away a lot?

SA: No, it was probably just a day trip. Another... he had quite a few people working at the Sangyo Nippo. One was Don Nakajima. Most people (knew) of him, after the war he was in the real estate business. (He may have been a) typesetter, but probably not. In those days they had, did they call it typesetter? Linotype. (He very well may have been a reporter. Harry Honda must remember him.)

MN: There was another fairly famous person in the photo that you showed me of the Sangyo Nippo staff.

SA: Yes, that was his first job, and he was the English editor. He still remembers that paper. (Harry Honda of L.A.)

MN: Now let me ask a little bit about your mother. You said she was also, she was doing midwife work. In addition, did she do any other work?

SA: Well, yes. I think she even worked in a walnut factory where they cracked walnuts by hand. Then ended up, just prior to the war, she would be hemming handkerchiefs, we'd be taking it to Pasadena, you package them by the dozen. Hand rolled is what we call it, hand rolled handkerchiefs, I guess, in those days.

<End Segment 4> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 5>

MN: Now let me ask a little bit about your early beginnings. Where were you born?

SA: Boyle Heights.

MN: Were you born at home?

AS: (Yes).

[Interruption]

MN: Do you remember who delivered you?

SA: Dr. Tsuda. He was a nice-looking young man. Afterwards I saw a picture.

MN: So Dr. Tsuda came to your home and delivered you?

SA: (Yes).

MN: When were you born?

SA: Date? March 3, 1932.

MN: Girl's Day.

SA: Girl's Day.

MN: What is your birth name?

SA: Setsuko from Oseku.

MN: Because that's associated with Girl's Day.

SA: Exactly.

MN: You have an English name also, Evelyn. When did you pick that up?

SA: In camp. Because in those days, you know, you try to Americanize everything, even to our names, and that was suggested from my cousin who was in the army. He said, "You better have an English name," so that's when I picked it up.

MN: Do you know why he picked Evelyn?

SA: I have no idea. We did everything people said to do, we just did it. We were all "yes" people, you know.

MN: When did you go back to Sets, or when did you become Sets?

SA: It's very interesting. (...) When I came out here to California, (...) the people I worked with (...) didn't want another Evelyn in the lab. Okay, so changed it. But I went by both names in the South. (This person was no longer working, however, the staff elected not to have an "Evelyn" in the lab.)

MN: When you talk about the South, Louisiana?

SA: New Orleans, to be exact.

MN: New Orleans.

SA: (Yes).

MN: That'll be after the war and we'll get into that. Now, your parents, in total, how many children did they have?

SA: Total of six.

MN: Girls? Boys?

SA: All girls.

MN: Where are you in the sibling hierarchy?

SA: The last one. Post menopausal baby.

MN: The Long Beach earthquake happened on March 10, 1933. Did any of your family members get injured?

SA: No.

MN: What is the first language that you learned?

SA: Japanese.

MN: Now when you were two years old, you were hospitalized. What happened?

SA: I had diphtheria and landed in the County Hospital.

MN: Now, your first language you learned was Japanese. Were you able to talk to the doctors and nurses?

SA: No. I learned quickly. I could say "drink water," and that's about all I remember.

MN: Now how did you learn to say, "drink water"?

SA: I don't know. I guess they kept telling me.

MN: So then you were hospitalized and you went home and had this diphtheria.

AS: Right.

MN: What happened to your house?

AS: It was quarantined. In those days they had a yellow tag all around the house, very embarrassing for my mother. She was just devastated. The only two who could leave the house was my father and my oldest sister to go back and forth to work.

<End Segment 5> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 6>

MN: Now, by the time you started kindergarten, were you speaking English?

AS: Still Japanese. You were not allowed to speak (English) at home (...).

MN: Your father was very strict about that.

AS: Very strict; very strict.

MN: So how did you get by in kindergarten?

AS: Very difficult. The teacher even asked my mother if I had a bladder problem because I had to constantly go to the bathroom just to get away.

MN: Is it because you didn't understand what was going on and you just wanted to get out of the classroom?

AS: Probably so. I can't remember the ifs and whys. All I know is I asked to go to the bathroom.

MN: So did your parents take you out of the school or you continued to go there and you learned English quickly? Is that what happened?

AS: I guess so, eventually. I was held back for a year. I do remember that my mother was quite concerned, so she would always be there by the fence waiting for me when school was out.

MN: By the time you started grammar school, were you speaking English?

AS: I was in grammar school then.

MN: Oh, I'm sorry, kindergarten and then grammar school was the same?

AS: I guess so. It was on Breed Street School.

MN: What was the ethnic makeup of Breed Street School?

AS: Mostly Caucasians. I can't remember.

MN: What about Japanese school? Which Japanese school did you attend?

AS: Onodera (Gakuen), every day after school.

MN: How did you like Japanese school?

AS: I didn't like it at the time, but I liked my teacher, who was a (nice) young man. That's all I remember.

MN: That's why you liked him.

AS: (I guess so).

MN: Okay, on Sundays, which Sunday school did you attend?

AS: Nichibei Kyokai on Third Street.

MN: What memories do you have of Sunday school?

AS: My sister, my married sister at the time, lived across the street. Nichiren church, during the war, (kept) some of our furniture in storage for us. (It was burglarized).

MN: I was going to say, I've seen pictures of it being raided.

AS: Right.

<End Segment 6> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 7>

MN: Now, at what age did you start taking piano lessons?

AS: I can't recall, maybe eight, something like that, six or seven.

MN: Did the teacher come over to your house?

AS: She came to the house.

MN: You sort of said you didn't like piano lessons. Why not?

AS: Right. The teacher was very, very sweet. Watanabe was her name. But I had a real cute dog called Smoky. My mother, while I was taking music lessons, took it out to Hollenbeck Park and let it go. So ever since then I just didn't care to go to music. (...)

MN: What kind of dog was it?

AS: It was real cute. Tiny, tiny (charcoal, looked like a shitsu).

MN: So you were taking piano lessons. Did you have piano recitals?

AS: I recall when (...), probably because it was a big event, I had new clothes. New dress, new shoes, the works. We had a recital at one of the churches. (Tenrikyo?)

MN: So you got a brand new clothes, brand new shoes...

AS: Just for that performance.

MN: Did your older sisters take piano lessons?

AS: (No). I was a spoiled brat who came along late, you know.

MN: Now, when you were growing up, who were your playmates?

AS: I had neighbors.

MN: Japanese Americans?

AS: Both. Fourth Street house there were a lot of Japanese, and Breed Street was Caucasian. I still remember their faces but I can't remember their names.

MN: What sort of games did you play?

AS: Kick the Can. Or dolls, jumprope, hopscotch, the usual. (...) We did with what we had, (chalk on sidewalk).

MN: Now you said dolls, but I know there weren't any Barbie dolls in your era. What kind of dolls were these?

AS: (...) We had ("Betsy Wetsy" doll).

MN: Now you shared the story of how you were able to afford a candy treat every day. Your mother would...

AS: Gee, isn't that strange? She would put a nickel at the end of a handkerchief and tie a knot. That's what I remember, and that was my treat every day. And I was very spoiled. And after school I'd just go to the (...) little grocery store at the end of the block. I remember that very well.

MN: You also made this little playhouse underneath your staircase. What did it look like?

AS: Just a regular... a staircase (...) and my father let me put my (...) toys there. Being the youngest one and not (having) many playmates, I guess talked to myself and made my own friends.

<End Segment 7> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 8>

MN: Let's see, now. You talked a little bit about going to Little Tokyo and Yamato Hall. You also talked about how your father took you into Little Tokyo, you went to the Nishi Hongwanji temple. What did you do there?

AS: We would go see programs, dances, performances. We'd sit way up in the bleachers.

MN: What kind of performances are these? Japanese odori?

AS: Oh, Japanese (dances).

MN: When you were in Little Tokyo, did your parents take you to, like, China meshi?

AS: (Yes), to Sanko Low.

MN: Were there other, was there a lot of Chinese restaurants in Little Tokyo at the time?

AS: I don't recall. I just remember the Far East, (going) upstairs. (...) After funerals, they'd have lunches.

MN: You also mentioned like on Friday nights, your father took you to the movies.

AS: Yes.

MN: Where did you go and see these movies?

AS: Downtown Broadway, RKO Orpheum, I remember that very well. It's on the corner.

MN: Is this when you said they used to have intermission?

AS: (No, it was in) Boyle Heights, Meralta Theater on East First Street. And at intermission time they'd have like drawings. We'd just look forward to matching our numbers on these little tickets. And they had all different kinds of things.

MN: So you're going to like the Meralta and the RKO Orpheum, what kind of movies did you watch?

AS: I can't recall. Oh, maybe... oh, cartoons. I remember "Ferdinand the Bull," that's an oldie. And of all things, I remember Blood and Sand, Tyrone Powers, isn't that funny? That is an oldie.

MN: Now, today, you still have this cherished stuffed panda bear. Can you share with us how you got this?

AS: One night we were coming home (after a movie) and we stopped at a drugstore 'cause my dad smoked cigars. I think that's why we went in there. And I saw this panda bear and I wanted it. And like I said, I was very spoiled and he let me get it right away, and that was what I had when we went into camp.

MN: Now, when you go to these movies, afterwards, did your father take you out to like an American restaurant?

AS: I just recall even my sister taking me to Clifton's restaurant on Broadway. And she'd take me to a department store, I mean, a dime store called Kress, S.H. Kress. And we would sit on the counter. I remember things like that. That was a treat (going) downtown. (We had roast beef, mashed potatoes and gravy).

MN: Because Clifton's was very famous at that time. All the politicians I think went there.

AS: Right.

MN: And Kress, K-R-E-S-S...

AS: Correct.

MN: We don't have that anymore.

AS: Oh, it's like Woolworth's. Do we have a Woolworth's yet?

MN: What about Japanese movies? Where did your father take you to see Japanese movies?

AS: I think that was on East First Street. We liked movies, so we did go to quite a few.

MN: So what kind of Japanese movies did you watch?

AS: Samurai movies.

MN: How often did you see Japanese movies?

AS: Oh, I have no idea as far as timeframe. It was always a treat. He did look after the family in that sense, took us out a lot.

<End Segment 8> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 9>

MN: Let me ask about the fishing.

AS: Oh, yes.

MN: Your father fished quite a lot. When you went fishing, did he take the family or just, did he go with his friends?

AS: Oh, he took the family, he would go to Brighton Beach. He'd do surf fishing, and he taught all of us, even my sisters were very good at it. Perch, surf fishing, casting, so we all learned how to cast.

MN: Did your mother make obento for this?

AS: Oh, yes, that was her thing. She'd be up 'til two o'clock in the morning making onigiri and had a little okazu and things like that, obento. And we'd pitch a tent, and that was her thing. And we would have our little lunch on the beach.

MN: So you said you pitched a tent. Did you stay there more than one day?

AS: No. That was just our shade, I guess.

MN: Do you remember what kind of fish you were catching, surf fishing?

AS: Perch. That's all I can remember, perch. And I remember my sister caught a little baby shark. That was a flat one, that's how I remember. That impressed me, I guess, that I can still remember that.

MN: Now, your mother almost died from an octopus.

AS: Right.

MN: Share that story with us.

AS: Like I said, (Dad) would bring home all these little weird (things). She had an octopus, so she would have to cook it. (They had the blue ink). She was tasting the soup, and she almost died then. But I don't know how she recuperated, but she did. She had nine lives.

MN: So aside from this octopus incident, what kind of food did your mother cook at home?

AS: Japanese, whatever we had, I guess.

MN: Tofu or vegetable... what do you call the food you ate at home?

AS: You know, I don't recall.

MN: Okay. Now, in '36, your father took the family to the World's Fair in San Francisco.

AS: Was that '36? I guess so. We drove up there. And I remember the motels were all filled, so he just begged one motel lady to please let us stay at her house because it was late. She let us sleep in her living room, and I remember she had a lot of cats. They were show cats. And she had more trophies on the mantle. (...) They were very nice to us. He would just ask them and it's unbelievable that she opened up her own living room for us.

MN: You slept with the cats?

AS: I don't remember that. All I remember is the gold trophies.

MN: Now, it sounds like your father drove the family to a lot of places. Can you share with us the special seat they made for you in the car?

AS: Oh. My uncle made that. It was a little stool that was the car seat. (...) We had a four door, but it would be like a bench-style, I sat right in the middle seat on the little bench. So I grew up in cars from way back. I still have it (painted over many times).

MN: Oh, you do?

AS: Painted over about five times.

MN: That's precious. Let me ask you about Christmas. Did your family celebrate Christmas?

AS: We did, and my mother would always, every Christmas Eve put a towel over her heard and she would clean out the fireplace. All those ashes came out because Santa was coming. And she just dutifully did that every Christmas Eve. That's all I can remember, seeing her cleaning that fireplace.

<End Segment 9> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 10>

MN: Now, let me ask you about your three oldest sisters. When you were growing up, did you know you had three sisters in Japan?

AS: I guess. I don't remember. We didn't discuss them, they were there. One passed away when she was sixteen with pneumonia. Another sister, to this day, she's still, I think she's still alive, living there with her grandchildren.

MN: Did you ever meet her?

AS: I went once to Japan in the '70s, specifically to see the family plot and to see her. But I haven't been in touch with her.

MN: So did any of the sisters come to the United States?

AS: She could have, 'cause she was born here, but she elected to stay in Japan. Everyone else came, and that was just my oldest sister. 'Cause the other two were born here.

MN: When did your oldest sister come to...

AS: She was nine years old. She was called to come back here to babysit, and she didn't know a word of English.

MN: Did she ever share with you how difficult the adjustment was?

AS: It was very difficult for her. She couldn't call my father Father, not Otousan, but she (called) him Ojisan for a long time... she couldn't get herself to call him Dad.

MN: And I assume she didn't speak any English.

AS: She didn't speak any English. It was very traumatic for her because she was forced to go to school, and she would go to school with all children who were much younger, four, five year olds. It was very difficult for her. She had a very traumatic childhood.

MN: And what about yourself? All of a sudden you have this new sister coming into your house.

AS: No, because by the time I came along she was already probably in high school.

MN: Now, this oldest sister, Kazuko, that we're talking about...

AS: She was the eldest, yes.

MN: She married in 1940. Can you share with us what her wedding was like?

AS: Oh, it was a very large event in our family. My father was so proud and had to have a big, huge wedding. And she had to wear the kimono for the reception, and we had the reception upstairs. I forgot the name. Sanko Low? It's upstairs. I remember the stairs, I don't know why. That was the place to go in those days.

<End Segment 10> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 11>

MN: Now, let me get into the war years. Do you remember what you were doing on Sunday, December 7, 1941?

AS: All I know is it was a lot of commotion and we were all in front of the radio, but that's all I recall.

MN: So what happened to your father shortly after Pearl Harbor was attacked?

AS: What happened? Well, like most of the Isseis, he was interrogated by the FBI, they did come. They did take him to jail, and they interrogated him there. But he even went as far as wearing that, he kept saying he just didn't like it, the prison garb. But he managed to get out that, without even spending the night. He came home. So we were very glad, thankful for that.

MN: Your father was a good talker.

AS: I think so, 'cause the FBI was very nice.

MN: Did you notice any change in your father after this experience?

AS: He was very Americanized, became very pro-American. And he wanted to do what the government said. He even wanted to take a group of people to resettle inland and try to gather a few people. 'Cause he was more of a, like a leader type of person. And it didn't pan out. So consequently he had go to along when we went to camp.

MN: Now, the next day is a Monday. Did you go to school after Pearl Harbor?

AS: Oh, no, I'm sure not. I can't remember, but... in those days, it was a blackout. We couldn't go out of the L.A. city limits for ten miles. And my sister was, I recall she was having, well, to a deliver a baby or something, a nephew, we couldn't even go see her. 'Cause the hospital was on Adams, White Hospital they used to call it in those days.

MN: So did your sister just have the baby by herself?

AS: (...) We couldn't go visit (due to zoning).

MN: Now, how did your parents prepare to go into camp? Did they buy new clothes or new suitcases?

AS: I can't recall. All I know is we were packed and had suitcases.

MN: Do you recall if your parents burned Japanese books?

AS: No, I don't recall that.

MN: You mentioned earlier that you stored some of the items at the Nichiren church?

AS: Nichiren church.

MN: Is that where most of your items were stored?

AS: I think so. (...)

MN: On the day that your family had to go into Santa Anita, where did you gather?

AS: I don't remember. I don't know.

MN: Do you remember what day that you left for Santa Anita?

AS: May. May 5th or something like that. 1942.

MN: If you went in on May 5th, that's two days after your birthday.

AS: No, my birthday's March.

MN: Oh, March, I'm sorry. That's right. Girl's Day.

AS: Right.

MN: But do you recall that your parents bought you any special presents or new clothes to go into camp?

AS: I don't recall.

MN: Your sister had this embarrassing incident with her suitcase going into camp?

AS: Oh, she told me about that many years later. Her suitcase all of a sudden flipped open in Santa Anita while we were all standing in line, and all her sanitary pads came out. She said she'll never forget that.

MN: You mentioned this earlier also, but I'm gonna ask you again. What did you carry into Santa Anita?

AS: My little panda bear, which I still have.

<End Segment 11> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 12>

MN: What was your first impression of Santa Anita?

AS: It was, it smelled a lot, 'cause we were in a stable. I remember Blue Mess Hall, because that's where we ate, always standing in line to have meals. And I remember seeing bees on the apple butter, and to this day I cannot eat apple butter. I still see 'em.

MN: Now, did you attend classes at Santa Anita?

AS: I remember classes, and I remember Sunday school of all things, and the grandstands.

MN: So you're having these classes in the grandstands, I'm sure there's a lot of distractions out there. What could you see out of the grandstands?

AS: Well, the older Niseis used to make camouflages. That was somewhat interesting.

MN: Do you remember which barrack you lived in there?

AS: All I know is Avenue 68.

MN: And you mentioned, of course, your little panda bear you had. And Santa Anita's very dusty. Didn't it get dirty?

AS: (Yes). I do recall one day my dad decided to wash it, and he hung it up by its ears on the clothesline, and I remember that vividly. Because it impressed me that he did it.

MN: Now, years later, after the war, you took a tour of Santa Anita horsetracks organized by George Yoshinaga?

AS: Right.

MN: How did you feel about returning there?

AS: It was very interesting. I wanted to see the barrack, and the bus driver would point it out, and it brought back many memories. And I did see the Blue Mess Hall which was now changed into (...) a cafeteria. We did go see the Red Mess Hall (...) where we took our shower, which was (...) still there. The horses are being bathed there. That's where we took a shower.

MN: You said a lot of feelings came back. Were they positive? What kind of feelings did --

AS: It's very unbelievable at that time, to think that we actually lived there. This was before the, I guess you would call barracks were built on the parking lot, and that's where the White Mess Hall was.

MN: Probably wouldn't smell as bad in that parking lot either.

AS: Parking lot.

MN: Okay, let's go back into the war years. When did your family leave Santa Anita?

AS: October 1942, right.

MN: Did you know where you were going?

AS: We had no idea. We just boarded the train and we were told to keep the shades down. Very, very long, it took us ten days. And I think the reason is when the other trains would come by, we would be on the side, waiting for the other trains to go through.

MN: Did anybody in your family ever try to get off the train?

AS: My sister tried to get a postcard, and she was not allowed. The soldier came with a rifle and made her go back.

MN: Now, you're a very young child. For you, what did this train ride, what was it like to you? Was it scary or was it more adventurous?

AS: It was adventuresome, but I remember walking up and down at night in the aisle. Very, very sad, it was quiet, that's all I recall. The shades completely down at the time, so it's always dark.

<End Segment 12> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 13>

MN: So the train gets to Arkansas. Did it go right up to Rohwer?

AS: You know, I can't recall. All I know is we stayed in a little town (called) McGehee.

MN: What was your first impression of Rohwer?

AS: It's adventuresome for me.

MN: How old were you when you entered Rohwer?

AS: Ten, probably.

MN: Do you remember your address there?

AS: Block 7, Barrack 12-A, 7-12-A.

MN: So you're ten years old, I imagine the barracks all looked alike. Did you ever get lost out there?

AS: No. You get acclimatized to it. The only thing that disturbed me was we did have a central washroom area, and we'd have to go... it gets muddy during the rainy season, so they made planks, I guess, out of wood, walkways.

MN: Let me ask you about your school situation at Rohwer. Did school start soon after you entered camp?

AS: I think so. That was one thing they kept up our education (...).

MN: What was the school called?

AS: I don't remember.

MN: Rohwer...

AS: Rohwer, I guess Rohwer, it was a grammar school.

MN: How far was it from your barrack?

AS: We walked, but it wasn't a big deal, but I can't recall.

MN: Share with us what the classroom situation was like.

AS: It was cold, and we did have desks made out of logs, tree logs. That was sort of interesting. The first time I saw so many Japanese, couldn't believe it, all at once, and classmates were all Japanese.

MN: Now your sister Masako was an assistant teacher at the grammar school. Were you ever in her class?

AS: Yes.

MN: What was that like?

AS: Didn't mean anything... it wasn't a big deal, 'cause our teacher was Mrs. Hatchett. I still remember how beautiful that lady was and very, very nice.

MN: So even if your sister was an assistant teacher, she didn't, like, be more strict with you?

AS: No, just go with the flow, I guess.

MN: Did your teachers have like a real strong southern drawl?

AS: No, not that I recall.

<End Segment 13> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 14>

MN: So when you were in Rohwer, what kind of games did you play?

AS: Oh, like I think of Kick the Can, because I remember the stump was out there and the can, (missing the can and kicking the stump).

MN: Did Rohwer have Girl Scouts?

AS: Yes. We had a very good group in our block. Very nice lady, her name was Mrs. Umezuka. I read of her name in one of the local papers, so she may have been active in the community. Very, very nice lady. (Her daughter's name was Cecelia).

MN: What did you do as a Girl Scout?

AS: I can't recall.

MN: Were you able to go outside, hiking, camping?

AS: No, oh, no. Just did things according to the Girl Scout handbook.

MN: Can you share with us what the Alpha 7 is?

AS: Oh, we had a little club of all girls, because we're in Block 7, we called it Alpha 7. And a young lady by the name of Gladys Nakamura led us. She was only fifteen, she was, kept us together and kept us busy, so it was fun. It was a fun time for me.

MN: What did you do?

AS: I don't remember. It was just a group to get together, I guess.

MN: Can you share with us how you learned to play the koto at Rohwer?

AS: Oh, it was very brief, but my mother insisted I get some kind of music lessons, and what impressed me was the koto was made out of an apple box, so it was very short, it wasn't long. But it had strings on it, and so learned the typical Sakura chords.

MN: Now the odori teacher, Fujima Kansuma was in our camp. Share with us how your father was connected to her.

AS: Oh, dear, he was the baishakunin. (...)

MN: Was your father really good at being a baishakunin?

AS: I think so. (He was instrumental to many couples).

MN: How many marriages do you think he helped to make?

AS: Oh, I don't know, quite a few.

MN: Now, you snuck out of Rohwer. Can you share that story about your friends sneaking out?

AS: Oh, there (was a) group of us, and we had some coins in our pocket, so we went underneath the barbed wire and walked to the local, like a, I guess it would be a little store, and we took an empty gallon jar, bought the 7Up and Orangeade (...) and we just poured it in there and came back. We were so scared, but we had fun doing it.

MN: If it's okay, I'm going to ask you a very personal question. You started menstruation in camp, menstruating in camp. When you started to bleed, did you know what was going on with your body?

AS: I would say in those days, Isseis didn't really explain. My mother, of course, never did really take care of me, so my sister did. But instead of talking, she handed me a booklet which was by Kimberly-Clark, making those sanitary pads, and it's called, "From One Girl to Another." It's very interesting how we're just brainwashed to start reading, you know. Until then, I had no idea, just was petrified, 'cause no one told me. I was a slow learner and didn't know a lot of things.

MN: Where did you purchase your pads?

AS: I don't know. Probably through the Sears-Roebuck catalog like we did in those days. We had the crazy old sanitary belts. It's amazing what we went through. It's comparable to the garter belts that we wore, wearing hose, nylon hose. We wore these long contraptions with little hooks, that's how we had stockings, we wore stockings. Well, it was similar to that. We just had little sanitary belts with little hooks on it.

MN: So, you know, I'm, like, I'm not used to this. Were they disposable or did you wash them?

AS: They were... not the belt, but the pads were. And of course we'd get it through Sears-Roebuck I guess. That's the only way we could purchase things. And I think they had a canteen, I don't recall that either. Those are necessities, I'm sure they had, they had other paper goods for us (like) toilet paper.

MN: Let's see now. Your father, what did he do in Rohwer?

AS: He was a block manager.

MN: What about your mother? What did she do?

AS: I don't remember.

MN: Well, your mother was a midwife before the war. Did she help out at all in, the pregnant women in Rohwer?

AS: I have no idea.

MN: I saw this photo that you had of, this looks like Girl's Day at Rohwer. Did you celebrate Girl's Day?

AS: Oh. In the mess hall we had, for any occasion we'd try to do things, and some people actually had dolls, beautiful dolls, and we had a celebration in the mess hall.

MN: Were these dolls made in camp?

AS: I don't think so. Not these, these particular ones, Someone must have had it.

MN: What about Boy's Day?

AS: I don't remember that.

MN: Was it at Rohwer that you saw your first snow?

AS: Yes.

MN: What was that like?

AS: It was very awesome. It was just interesting in the sense that, it was just a, made the ground white, that's about it. But it was very cold.

MN: How about the summers? What were summers like at Rohwer?

AS: Very, very humid. There were a lot of mosquitoes.

MN: You know, I've heard of people catching rattlesnakes and eating them. Did you ever do that?

AS: No.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 15>

MN: Now, when the war ended, your father went out of camp by himself. Was your mother worried about him being out there by himself?

AS: No.

MN: Where did your father go?

AS: Well, he decided to go to Chicago and New York, Washington, D.C. He was determined to see the Capitol. He went and asked the cab driver to take him on the Hill, he thought it was just a wonderful thing for him to see the Capitol. And he ended up in New Orleans, Louisiana, and then came back to camp to get us.

MN: So he went to New Orleans. Can you share with us the story of how your father found a job there?

AS: That was sort of an interesting thing. In camp, he noticed shredded shrimp which we would call oboro ebi, and he noticed the address was Gulf Food Products in New Orleans and he remembered that. So he went to see this man who was Chinese. He couldn't speak English, so they both communicated with writing kanji, and that's how they got to know each other. Mr. C.D. Hoy invited him to come to live in New Orleans, so he came home, got his family, and packed us up, went to New Orleans.

MN: What month and year did the entire family leave Rohwer to New Orleans?

AS: All I remember is October 1945.

MN: What did your father do at Gulf Foods?

AS: That was the shrimp business, so packing, we were packing shrimp, and at the same time he would be communicating with (...) Japan and California in those days, to try to (sell) any kind of seafood. (...) I remember the last thing that he was doing was the oyster shells that they would get in the Gulf, he would use, purchase it, somehow send it to Japan for the shells to make buttons. Japan made buttons out of oyster shells.

MN: Now also, before the war, your father worked for the Hawaii newspaper and then the Sangyo Nippo. Did he write for any Japanese American newspapers after the war?

AS: Rafu Shimpo.

MN: Japanese section or English section?

AS: Japanese.

MN: Do you know what he wrote in his columns?

AS: I do not know.

MN: How often did he write?

AS: It came out periodically, and that's how a lot of people would communicate with him. And we had many, many visitors coming to New Orleans, 'cause we were sort of in a central focal point.

MN: Did he write under his real name?

AS: He had a pen name. I don't know where it is; written somewhere.

<End Segment 15> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 16>

MN: Now, when you were there in the 1940s, how many Japanese American families were in Louisiana?

AS: 1945. We were only about five at the time. We ended up, we were more, and as time went on, people in and out. A lot (...) didn't last very long; it wasn't for them. They'd go back to the West Coast.

MN: So there aren't too many Japanese Americans, but yet your house was always filled with Japanese or Japanese Americans. Who were these people?

AS: Because there was no consulate, I would say the consul general would have people come over to visit us. And then also we had a very close friend working for the JETRO, Japan External Trade (Organization), he lived there for about ten years. And we met a lot of representatives, we would call them consuls and vice consuls and their families, because they tried to have a lot of communication with the trades. We met a lot of people. (...)

MN: I'm going to throw some names at you, okay?

AS: Okay.

MN: You share with us who these people are. Tomiko Kanazawa.

AS: Oh, yes. She was from Los Angeles, very famous opera singer, and she happened to come to New Orleans to sing at the municipal auditorium. She sang Madame Butterfly and we were able to go hear her sing. That was in 1948, I think.

MN: You already mentioned this, but the Iimura family?

AS: Yes, he worked for the JETRO.

MN: Did he always come over to your quite often?

AS: Every week. It was a joy to have them. Well, they played Hanafuda, they call it, and then ended up with mah jong. Every Friday night they'd come. They looked forward to it, and my mother would feed them. They loved ochazuke. So it was very interesting.

MN: How about Ishida-san?

AS: Oh, yes. He was the vice-consul, he had two little girls. They came often, too.

MN: There was a kamikaze pilot who also visited.

AS: Yes. All I remember calling him was Yo-chan. He told me that he went all the way to the very bitter end to learn the rites, but when it came for his plane, he took off and decided, "I'm not going to go," and he (flew) to another island. They lost track of him.

MN: Then you had this entire crew of fishing, this fishing crew at your house.

AS: Yes, this company from Hokkaido came to the south to buy a fishing ship (...) from Mississippi. So the captain and the first mate, and pretty soon (all the) officers came to my house (...), our little apartment. They missed Japanese cooking, so they did come. They bought the ship and sailed it back to Japan.

MN: That must have been pretty crowded at your place.

AS: It was. Sat on the floor.

MN: And there was an artist that was going to paint Eisenhower?

AS: Yes. He was on his way to Washington, D.C. and then on to Paris. And he, I don't know how he heard about us, maybe through the paper, I don't know, but he did come and visit us and he was kind enough to give my father a painting, oil painting of Fujisan, which was an unusual one because it was taken from the back side and people just can't recognize it as the famous Mt. Fuji.

[Interruption]

MN: So you were sharing with us about Roku Sugahara.

AS: Roku Sugahara.

MN: Share with us, what was he like and what did he do?

AS: He was my mentor. Lived in Louisiana after the war when his wife decided she didn't like New Orleans and went to New York and lived right near Columbia University. And he decided to stay in New Orleans. He was in the real estate business as well as working for a bookstore. I don't know how he contacted my dad, but anyway, he came to our house every week. Talked to us, ate with us, and he, of course, played cards. But that was the early part, in the early '40s, and he really talked me into going to school, thanks to him.

MN: Now, you're very bilingual, more bilingual than your parents. What was your role when all these people are coming through your house?

AS: Well, my mother couldn't speak English and my father couldn't speak English very well. In order to have all these business contacts, he'd take me along, so I would have to translate for him. And he made a point to make me read the newspaper, because he wanted to know current events, and so I would have to read it and explain it to him. I think that's where I got my interest in reading the paper every day. And he brainwashed all of us, all the girls, "Before you go to sleep at night, you have to read the front page." To this day, we all do.

MN: So how did you feel about being able to meet some very important people, very popular celebrities?

AS: I enjoyed it. I really got my taste of how the other half lives. And we visited beautiful homes, met a lot of prominent people in the city.

MN: Now, when did the Japanese consulate open an office in New Orleans after the war? Do you remember that?

AS: I don't know. I think it's in one of my articles.

MN: Now, when they opened an office, how did it affect your family?

AS: Well, my father passed before they (opened, so) we were there (...) about ten, fifteen years when they didn't have any, consular corps, (...) but it was just on a small scale. But because of that, we had a lot of people probably contacting us.

MN: And then you also organized, or your father organized a banquet for Ambassador Sato.

AS: Oh, yes. (...) We didn't have any Japanese per se, consular corps, so we had a huge party at a huge (seafood restaurant), I remember that, we had seafood. And I just remember seeing the flag, both the Japanese flag and American flag in that restaurant.

MN: Now, all these people were coming in and (...) out of your house, did your mother ever complain about having to cook the meals, clean the house?

AS: She did that all her life. My father just was a very gregarious person, had more people come to our house for as long as can remember, they just dropped in. And, see, I don't know if I mentioned this, but many, many years ago in L.A., people would come 'cause they'd have to make a speech or something, and he would write it for them. Consequently, people just kept coming to our house. Piece of cake for her, she'd just have to entertain them and feed them. (...)

MN: But still a lot of work.

AS: She was good at that. Of course, being in the shrimp business, we had fried shrimp every (time).

<End Segment 16> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 17>

MN: Let me ask you a little bit about food. In New Orleans there weren't a lot, there weren't any Japanese vegetables?

AS: Not at that time, early part. Well, he decided one day he had to have otofu, so he asked our friend, Mr. Yenari, to (...) an actual box. He got the soybeans and everything, and you had to have calcium chloride, and I was elected to go to a pharmacy and ask them for calcium chloride. He wanted to know what I was going to do with it. I told him, and we were able to make tofu. I remember going through the whole motion by hand, with the cheesecloth and everything. It was really a luxury for us, but we missed it so.

MN: Did you share the tofu with other Japanese American families?

AS: (...) We probably did.

MN: what about like a garden? Did your family have a...

AS: Oh, yes, he loved that, too. We used to call it a victory garden in those days, and we had all different kinds of vegetables. He did plant... (...) sato imo?

MN: There's sato imo, yeah.

AS: Uh-huh, that's what it was. And so we just had them by the buckets. And so it was such a treat for us, he would ship it and mail it to his friends in Ohio, Cleveland, Cincinnati, because they didn't have any. (...)

MN: And you're also trying to rebuild your life after the war and everything was very tight. Can you share with us what kind of material you used to make dresses out of?

AS: Oh... chicken feed. And they were pretty nice prints. Made clothes with that, dresses.

MN: And when you say prints, were they different colors?

AS: Different colors like flowers.

MN: And they weren't rough?

AS: It was cotton. You couldn't even tell it was chicken feed. It's actual chicken feed sacks.

MN: Where did you get these sacks?

AS: Well, we knew a friend who was a chick sexer.

MN: And who made your clothes?

AS: We learned. I went to sewing school. That's another thing. I went to a sewing school in the city school system at night, so my parents could study English. They didn't know a word of English, and they went to school, and then that's how they became naturalized, 'cause they had to pass that test.

MN: Let me ask a little bit about the weather in New Orleans, especially the summertime. Was it like Rohwer?

AS: Worse. It was very, very humid, because it's surrounded by water. It's very unpleasant. Nighttime was just like ninety degrees. The humidity was ninety percent, it was very, very high. And, of course, we didn't have air conditioning. We had window fans. Are you familiar with those? You open the window and then there's a fan, put a fan in a box-like thing, it just goes into the window and the air will circulate. That's how it was.

MN: So you have this humidity problem, did you have mold problems?

AS: Oh, yes, mold growing, I'm telling you, we had to clean our closets every week, 'cause it was so moldy. That was the one thing I thought it was just terrible. Green mold growing everywhere.

MN: Now what about insects, mosquitoes and chiggers?

AS: We had mosquitoes, roaches, you name it. Chiggers, mosquitoes, a lot. Very unpleasant.

MN: And of course New Orleans had hurricanes. When did you experience your first hurricane? What was that like?

AS: 1946 I think it was. There was a river in front of our house, the street became a little river. The police came in little skiffs, rafts, to see if we needed any help, but we didn't go anywhere, we just went upstairs. We lived upstairs and went downstairs where our owner lived, and she just told us to come where she was so that's what we did. It was so funny because my dad, so crazy, made us wear our best shoes. I'll never forget those saddle Oxfords that we used to have. Dressed up, because that was it. Goes back many years.

MN: When you mean "that was it," did he think you were going to die?

AS: (Yes), he thought if this is it, the floodwater's coming down, we're gonna be inundated. That's how they tell you on the radio. It was very scary, but there was a river in front of our house. It's not a street anymore. But we experienced two of those. 1948 was another one it was very bad, where we couldn't even go out to the next block. And to get our groceries, the grocery store came to our house on a skiff to deliver the groceries. I don't know how many days it was, but water didn't recede for some time. That's when a lot of our things got wet. All my dolls got wet.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 18>

MN: Let me ask you a little bit about segregation in Louisiana. When you rode on the public transit system, which section did you sit in?

AS: They made us sit in the front because we were considered white. This is before Rosa Parks.

MN: So how does this, on the bus, do they have like half saved for white and half the bus saved for blacks?

AS: They just had a removable sign that said the coloreds were sitting in the back. And if you were sitting in the front, you would make sure that you're sitting in front of that sign, just move it. It had little holes in the seats and you just move this little sign.

MN: How much interaction did you have with African Americans?

AS: Very little, 'cause we were with the whites. But we had some blacks who worked with us in the shrimp business, nicest people. And I did, at one, I'll never forget, my friend, we used to call him Carter, he came to pick me up, gave me a ride home. He had a car, actually, and I got in, and everyone was just shocked that (...) I actually got in his car and sat in the front seat with him. But that's the only incident that I recall. Other than that, I didn't have anything to do with the blacks because we were segregated. And school was all segregated. It's really old fashioned in New Orleans. I went to an all-girls high school, so very interesting.

MN: What did you think about this whites, black system?

AS: (...) All I know is we were sort of put into this position, and it was just the way it was. In those days, you did what they said, and that was, I think we were very fearful at the very beginning and just do. You don't buck it. And I think that's the mentality that we all had.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 19>

MN: So let's talk about your school. Let's go to your grammar school first. Which grammar school did you attend in New Orleans?

AS: Jefferson Davis elementary school.

MN: And what grade did you start at?

AS: (...) It was the seventh. (...)

MN: And was that the grade you were supposed to be in?

AS: Yes.

MN: So the camp education didn't affect your schooling?

AS: No. It was just a few months. We just went along because it was all recognized in the American school system.

MN: And you mentioned early that school was segregated. But were there any other Asian Americans in your class?

AS: No.

MN: So how did the students and the teachers treat you?

AS: Very well. I didn't feel any animosity.

MN: And then at this school, there was this routine eye exam. Can you share with us what the ophthalmologist found out?

AS: That I had a lazy eye and I couldn't see. But that's when they really welcomed us and they treated us "white," very exceptionally kind to us. And this ophthalmologist (...) was very good to me. She ended up hiring me as a caregiver for her daughter. And I would take her on the streetcar to her music lessons every Saturday. I don't know how that came about, but it did.

MN: And then she also introduced you to Dr. Althea... is it Mayer?

AS: Mayer, uh-huh. They were her friends, and she was a pathologist, very interesting. She had a laboratory in the city of New Orleans, right in a downtown office building. So as I went to school, I'd work there on Saturdays cleaning glassware. That's how I got exposed to laboratory work.

MN: How did you start with that? Did you show an interest in science?

AS: Probably so, in high school, when I went to high school.

MN: So you had a part time job at the lab.

AS: On Saturdays.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 20>

MN: Now let me go back to your grammar school days. From Jefferson Davis Elementary, did you go straight to high school or was there a junior high school?

AS: No, I went straight to high school. (No middle school).

MN: What was your high school called?

AS: McDonough High School. That's where they had the riots after that, a few years ago in Louisiana. And it was one of those... it's changed. The whole area has changed.

MN: Is it still unisex like when you were going?

AS: I don't know. Probably so, the whole area's completely different.

MN: So you mentioned, of course, earlier, that it was all girls. Were there any other Asian Americans?

AS: Oh, no, none. In fact, I don't even remember a Chinese. Strange.

MN: How did you get along with the students and teachers?

AS: I got along very well.

MN: Did you have a favorite subject?

AS: English and science. I don't really recall. I was in the student orchestra, I remember that.

MN: What did you play?

AS: Violin.

MN: What were some of the highlights of being part of the orchestra?

AS: Highlights?

MN: Did you get to go to other schools and perform there?

AS: (...) We did perform in the all-city concert. (...)

MN: What year did you graduate from high school?

AS: 1950.

MN: What was your graduation ceremony like? Did you wear a cap and gown?

AS: Well, because I was in the orchestra we had to play and all the girls wore evening gowns. (...)

MN: Do you regret not being able to march up the aisle?

AS: No, it didn't bother me a bit.

MN: Where did you get your evening gown?

AS: Well, that's another thing. My sister in Buffalo made it for me, and I just looked in a magazine and I said this is what I wanted. I sent it to her and she did it all by mail. I don't know how she did it, but she got the material, exactly what I wanted. So it was pretty good.

MN: I want you to brag a little bit, and can you share with us what award you received at graduation?

AS: In high school?

MN: Uh-huh.

AS: I don't recall.

MN: The Bausch and Lomb award?

AS: Oh, that's a science award. (...) I received a plaque, I remember, a little tiny plaque.

MN: What kind of graduation present did you get from your family?

AS: I don't know.

MN: Your brother-in-law James Fujitani?

AS: Oh, he sent me a ticket to Los Angeles.

MN: What was that trip like?

AS: It was interesting, just like (...) in the movies, I was able to sit in the dining car. I'll never forget that little red rose on the white tablecloth, and being waited on by a black conductor. That was very interesting. Because (if) you see (it) in the movies, (now riding), but it was (forty)-eight hours. (...) Forty-eight hours. The ninety-eight was the name of the train, I think. I was eighteen then (...).

MN: Big difference from when you were sent to Arkansas.

AS: Oh, (yes). (...)

MN: Going back to New Orleans, New Orleans is of course known for Mardi Gras. When did you attend your first Mardi Gras party?

AS: When I was in school, my friend (...), she came from a French family. (Her) grandmother was the sweetest (...) thing. They (made our) costumes. We were Pirouettes and both of us went (to) Canal Street. In those days it was very safe, and we had lots of fun. Of course I met Hedda Hopper, and I took her picture. And people said, "Well, who's Hedda Hopper?" But it was a thrill for me. (Hedda Hopper was a Hollywood movie columnist).

MN: You also got to see your first opera there. What was that like?

AS: Yes. I saw Carmen, and I saw real live horses come on stage, (which) impressed me. That was our one and only auditorium, which we called the municipal auditorium (...). I was really sold on opera then.

MN: And you got to meet Eugene Ormandy. How did you get to meet him?

AS: (...) I was listening to the radio, and (the station) wanted people (and) students, to write in about whatever we felt listening to. So I turned it in, and came up with the second prize. We (were able) to meet Eugene Ormandy.

MN: What was he like?

AS: (...) I was just impressed with the fact that he was a great conductor.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 21>

MN: Now let me ask you about your college life. After you graduated from high school, was it... your parents (who encouraged you to go to college). Was it hard for you to kind of figure your way around the college system?

AS: I had no idea (...) about college. Thanks to dear Roku who told me, "No matter what, you go." And I just went, primarily because of Dr. Mayer, who encouraged me to go on to school and told me where to go. And that was it, I just went without knowing anything about it.

MN: Which college did you...

AS: Loyola.

MN: How did you afford...

AS: Didn't have a cent. In those days, (...) you enrolled, (filling out) all these long application forms, (which they called) railroad tickets, and they're reams of paperwork. After you fill it out, you (stood) in line to pay, and I didn't have a cent. This man, I still remember him, had on glasses and (asked for a check). I said, "I don't have any money," and he just looked at me. He was just, he couldn't get over it. He said, "Well, now, have you thought about a loan?" I said, "No." He said, "We'll you'll have to fill this paper out." To this day I can't get over how, the way the young students have to go to school and have to have so much, I didn't have a cent, and I did it. All due to Roku, who said, "If you have a will, you can do it." My parents had no idea, no concept of what you had to do.

MN: Were you able to get scholarships also?

AS: The only way was after the first year, which I borrowed, and after that I got scholarships every year, and then I paid off my loan in one year after I got out. That's a long time ago.

MN: Can you share with us the significance of the Beta Epsilon Honor Society pin you got?

AS: Oh, my gosh, that's an honor society for the med techs. They actually had a school called Medical Technology at Loyola, and that was one of the reasons why I went there, 'cause that's the only school that offered it.

MN: You graduated in three years. How were you able to do that?

AS: At that time, the Korean War was starting, and they decided to have an accelerated program. So we went through the whole summer to get out in three years; they wanted us to get out fast. I'm very thankful for that.

MN: Now I'm gonna go back a little bit and ask about your working life of when you were back in your teenage years. Now, how old were you when you started to look for a part-time job?

AS: Part-time job? Well, I first started when I was fourteen. I just walked into a florist. I'm not artistic at all, I lasted twenty-four hours and I was fired the next day.

MN: What did you do after that?

AS: Starting soliciting on the phone, selling photos.

MN: But then you eventually, you ended up with Dr. Mayer?

AS: (Yes). I don't know how that -- well, like I said, through word of mouth and following through from this ophthalmologist, I guess, with introductions. I guess that's how we did it.

<End Segment 21> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 22>

MN: Now, your first full-time job out of college was with the Louisiana State Department of Health. Were you the only Asian American woman working there?

AS: (Yes).

MN: What was that like?

AS: I loved it; I really did. Because I had my internship at a public health (hospital, federal), and then I had connections, but then I went to, I went to the State Board of Health, and in those days, you know, were very, financially not well-off at all. And so I just got the first job that paid the most of all the offers that I had. There were other jobs in hospitals. I went to the public health, state. And in the state of Louisiana, (two) public health (lab) is in New Orleans, whereas in California it's in Berkeley. So I was very fortunate in that respect, and I was able to work there, worked in the microbiology department which I loved to this day. And I worked in parasitology, helped them out there. And then we had to rotate on weekends, so we'd have to work on weekends. I even ended up making my own media, so I'd have to bleed sheep. And so we had a sheep pen on the roof. Public Health was right in the city, right next to city hall, and it just so happened we had sheep pens upstairs on the roof. I was scared to death of them, but then these little black boys were so cute and they would run after the sheep and grab 'em and then I'd just put this huge needle in the jugular vein and I'd get blood out of sheep. That had to be done on weekends because we had to rotate (the) shift. And I worked with little baby rats. I hated rats, but I had to work with them for rabies. I had to knock 'em out with ether, and then inject the brain. This is what we did, but I loved the work.

MN: So you're working with all these kind of microscopic organisms. Did you ever get infected at work?

SA: Oh, yes. (...) One day I became seriously ill, and the doctor I went to, 'cause you know, he was sure he knew what I had, but I knew it had to be something else, and definitely told my boss on the phone, "I can't go to work and I think I have it." So I collected my specimen, my mother took it to the lab, and sure enough, I not only had one, but I had a mixed infection of two organisms. One was a Salmonella and another was a Shigella, which, you know, you hear food poisoning due to salmonella? I had one of those bugs, a bad bug. And it was because I was trying to make a vaccine at that time, the antisera, and I guess I was careless. So I'll never forget that, and it can be devastating. But I managed to get well. In those days, recuperated, so... but that was the only incident I had.

MN: You also discovered a new strain.

SA: Oh, that's... I was very excited, but I was sure, this is sort of strange, I better check it again. And I took... it takes, in those days, organism takes twenty-four hours to grow, to incubate, so I had to waste another twenty-four hours but I had to confirm it again, and that was confirmed, so we sent it in and I missed it by twenty-four hours. And another New York state (lab), they got the same organism. It just so happened, it must have been the season. And they named it after their Public Health doctor. So they said I almost missed having a bug named after me. That was an exciting event.

MN: Now, within a year that you worked here, you were promoted to supervisor. Did anybody have a problem, like, working for a Japanese American?

SA: (...) There's no discrimination in the South as far as Asians. They were very good to me; I loved it there. I wish I could have stayed there longer.

MN: Let me change the subject on you right now and ask about your dating life. Did you date a lot of people that came to visit your home?

SA: Oh, I wouldn't say a lot, but I did.

MN: I guess nothing serious happened.

SA: Nothing serious, but I think most of them were from Japan, so very interesting, and I really was able to rub soldiers with the nightlife, the fine things. Benefits, parties, operas, the works. I really enjoyed myself in that respect.

MN: And, of course, Camp Shelby in Mississippi is fairly close to New Orleans.

SA: Biloxi.

MN: Did you have a lot of Nisei soldiers who'd come visit?

SA: They came in and out.

MN: But you never dated any of those soldiers?

SA: Oh, couple of Air Force people. That's as far as it went.

MN: Did you ever think about, like, dating outside of your race?

SA: Never. No... that thought never occurred to me, probably because I had so much contact with the Japanese nationals.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 23>

MN: Now I'm gonna change the subject again and ask about your parents becoming naturalized U.S. citizens. You mentioned it earlier, and I think you said they went to special classes?

SA: It was at night, it's English for the non-speaking, I guess. And they both (went), we drove at night. (...) While they went (to class), I took sewing classes (so) we would (all be together).

MN: Now, after they became naturalized citizens, did they adopt English names?

SA: No.

MN: Did you attend their naturalization ceremony?

SA: I can't remember. (...)

MN: Can you share with us when your parents became naturalized U.S. citizens, and then you visited your sister in Buffalo, New York.

SA: Right, right.

MN: What was that like?

SA: Oh, it was very exciting because we had just bought a car, a '55 Chevy, and we decided we're going to go visit them. That was the focus, to go visit them, and the main thing was they wanted to use that little green card, oh, they loved it. So we went back and forth on the Peace Bridge every day for over a week.

MN: Your father said, "I'm an American citizen."

SA: (Yes), he just loved that. They were so proud of it. It was such a ninety degree turn that I was amazed. His attitude completely changed. Well, he was that way, pro-American, from the very beginning. So it was easy.

MN: Now, your father passed away in New Orleans. How old was he when he passed away?

SA: Sixty-eight.

MN: And do you remember what year he passed away?

SA: 1957.

MN: Now, when he passed away, did you have a Buddhist or a Christian funeral?

SA: Buddhist.

MN: How did that come about?

SA: It was strictly all my decision. And when I think back, I said, "How in the world did I do this?" but I just wanted the service to be in Japanese. That was the focus. And in the past, (...) he was like a leader. So (for) all the people who passed, he made arrangements to have Buddhist service in New Orleans. He had a contact with (a) Buddhist priest in Chicago. So he would come on the train and stay at our house, so that's how I knew of him. We contacted him again, and this time he came to officiate.

MN: Now your father was cremated, but can you share with us why he couldn't be cremated in New Orleans?

SA: Louisiana at that time had a law that (stated) "no cremation," because it's ninety-eight percent Catholic at that time. So I had to have his remains shipped by train to Memphis to have it cremated. And I'll never forget, it was very costly. I just couldn't believe it. They said, "Well, it's a body; it's a person." So I had to pay full price. I'll never forget that. And we had him cremated. That was after the service was done.

MN: What was the service like?

SA: It was Buddhist, so typical Buddhist service.

MN: Did a lot of people turn out?

SA: The people in the city, I mean, the few we had. We all supported each other very well.

MN: But once again, I was going to ask you, New Orleans didn't have a Buddhist temple.

SA: No.

MN: Where was the...

SA: At the mortuary.

MN: And where is your father buried today?

SA: Evergreen Cemetery in Boyle Heights.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 24>

MN: So why did you and your mother decide to move back to California after your father died?

SA: Well, that was the main thing. Before he passed, many of his friends were in L.A., and he wanted to come visit. He came about two or three times to visit them, and to go visit them at the cemetery. For some odd reason, he was impressed with the street signs. I understand that's so in every cemetery, but we didn't know that. And he thought, "You know this is really nice. It's a little town with the little street signs, and know where your address is." So he always said he wanted to go -- well, he didn't really physically state that, but he mentioned that. So to such an extent that after he passed and he was in the mortuary, we had him at the top shelf of the mortuary, my mother was very upset that she'd have to see him way up there. So we decided the time has come where we had to bury him. So my sister had to go to Evergreen and look around, and she said, "I found the perfect spot under a magnolia tree, reminding him of Louisiana, right near a street sign." And so she bought a plot. In order to bury him, I had him shipped (...) there, but we had to come out here. That was a deciding point for me to bring him here, bury him, and get a job at the same time.

MN: And for you, how difficult was it for you to leave New Orleans?

SA: I was very unhappy, 'cause I had made many friends, very close friends, and I was very happy. I had dreams of going to the Peace Corps or doing all these different things with my life, and my life just completely turned over because I was absolutely responsible for my mother now. So we decided to pull up stakes and left. But I had very good friends who helped me make a decision and move. I don't know if I wrote about it (but) the Yenaris, (my) very close friends, (were) so good to me. He had a jewelry store and helped me really make the final (decision) to come out here. And I drove all the way with my mother.

MN: So how long did you live out in New Orleans?

SA: Thirteen years.

MN: So when you moved back to Los Angeles, you were able to find a job in Lynwood at the St. Francis Hospital, you were a microbiologist. As a microbiologist, what did you do there?

SA: Well, we work in a laboratory. We examine specimens, patient specimens to find organisms. Because I was a microbiologist, I was hired primarily to help set up that department which needed a little shaping up. But I hadn't worked in a hospital before, I'm from the state health department. It was a new change for me, but I managed, and we had to rotate to all the departments so that you're able to work all shifts every day of the week to rotate. I went back to the whole thing, learning, retraining, to be able to work in every department. But we have a license to do that anyway. It was primarily to set up the microbiology department.

MN: When you were there, how many Asian Americans were working there?

SA: None. But there was a Nisei (female) pharmacist, and I met her at the hospital. None in the laboratory.

MN: How did your coworkers treat you?

SA: Fine. Except for the name Evelyn, they didn't like it, but other than that, they were very good to me.

MN: So your coworkers were all Caucasians?

SA: Right. Back in those days, right.

MN: And this is back in the '50s, what was Lynwood like?

SA: Oh, very nice. Clean city, ninety percent Seventh Day Adventists, very, very nice. The physicians on the staff were extra nice to me, very, very nice.

MN: And you were sharing about what happened to your husband's cousin?

SA: Right. She was a social worker working for the L.A. (County). She had a case, and (she had to go) to the city at about five-thirty, she was stopped by the police and was asked to leave because no Asians were allowed in the city of Lynwood. That was in the '50s.

MN: Was it just no Asians or no minorities were allowed after dark?

SA: I would say, well, she stuck out because she was an Asian, but it was all minorities. It was really a Caucasian, white neighborhood. And, of course, I mentioned Seventh Day Adventists because they had an academy right on Imperial Highway.

<End Segment 24> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 25>

MN: Now, in the '60s, the area is changing, and you experienced the 1965 Watts Riots. What was that like?

SA: Frightening, very frightening. No freeways at the time. I was on Imperial Highway not knowing that the riot was going on. And that morning, (I work) an early shift, so I'm on the streets at about six o'clock, all of a sudden by Willowbrook I saw a fire in the canal, then next thing you knew there were cars all (...) upside down in the middle of the street. Then I saw shirtless black men on the streets. They stopped me for a while then let me go on to the hospital. As soon as I passed Alameda, the police were there with the barricade and they were closing it off, I just made it under the wire. We were forced to stay at the hospital for forty-eight hours to be on call for emergencies. I remember that (year) very well.

MN: Now you lived through the 1992 riots also in L.A. What was that like?

SA: It was similar in a sense, but I was on the freeway, on the 710 freeway at that time. And I saw (...) the National Guard with rifles, and that's what alerted me that they were going through that again. It was a little bit different, but at the same time, definitely frightening episode to see the militia there is sort of frightening. Though not as scary as the '65.

MN: Why wasn't it as scary as the '65?

SA: Well, (in '65) I was the only one, no one around. And out of the element, and it was flames, fire. I mean, when you see fire all around it's like what you see in the news today, when you see cars absolutely upside down, (a war zone), then you're in an area that you know you're not, you're in the minority. It's very, very frightening.

MN: You mentioned that you got stopped by these African American men. How were you able to get out of there?

SA: I can't recall. All I know is I just told them I had to go to work in the hospital. They let me go because I wasn't a threat to them at that time, and it was just beginning, the riots. Early the next morning. And that's why I'll never forget that year.

MN: You had another frightening experience when somebody robbed you from your car?

SA: Oh, that was awful. It was a crazy thing, I had a '72 Buick and I was coming home at three-thirty on Imperial Highway. For some odd reason I didn't want to put the air on and I had the windows open. And I stopped on Willowbrook again, an intersection in the center of the street, stoplight, a little boy around seven came in and grabbed my purse which was sitting right next to me, passenger seat. I wasn't thinking, made a beeline to follow him, going through a red light, followed him all the way into that housing project right there, and then I was in another country. It was frightening. This was at three-thirty, and all of a sudden, every project door was open and all these women came out with pink curlers and it was frightening. I just had to get out again. Somehow I managed to get out of the area and back to the same intersection where there was, must have been a Texaco gas station. Well, there was a man there, black, of course, and I said, "I have to make a phone call," and I had no money, so he gave me a quarter to make a phone call. In the meantime, the police came and they were in a black and white, and they're both, one white and one black police officer. And I said frantically, "I have to call my husband," and they said, "What for? He can't do anything." And I told him what happened. They took me back to the project and all the people were there. They told the police that they think that this purse is somewhere back there, wherever, and sure enough, they found the purse empty, prescription glasses gone, sunglasses gone, wallet. And of all things, that was before the time of Mastercard and Visa, so I had thirteen credit cards, thirteen credit cards from every gas station (...). That was the most frightening experience, but it happened right here.

MN: You know, I wonder also, because of all the racial tension that was going on at that time, had you been white, I wonder, do you ever think about how the experience would have been different?

SA: On this occasion, the robbery occasion?

MN: Yes. And if you had gone into the projects.

SA: I probably would be a statistic. But they let me sort of scoot out. When the police came, they sort of stood back. They told me that I was so fortunate, that I would not have been out if I'd... and I almost didn't make it. So they were honest about that, both of them told me that, "You were very fortunate to get out of that area." So even here in the city of Los Angeles, to think that I was just doing my job, and here, a little boy could get my purse. But that Texaco station, they were all part of it. And so now, looking back, I think I was just naive. Frightening, frightening.

<End Segment 25> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.

<Begin Segment 26>

MN: I'm going to change the subject on you and I want to ask a little bit about your late husband Koichi, Koy Asano. He was incarcerated during the war at Santa Anita and then at Granada, also known as Amache. Then he was drafted into the 442nd. Now, how much did your husband share with you about his army experience?

SA: Quite a lot. He used to dream a lot, had nightmares. But he became a real Christian after that, because he kept a little New Testament in his pocket, and I think that's what made him turn around. Of course, he was going to Holiness Church before the war, so he did have a good Christian background. But I think after he came out, he realized that he had to give something in return for his life. Because he was not wounded, he was not scratched; it was a miracle. All his friends passed. He did tell me lots of stories that... it changed him completely. He became a different person after that experience.

MN: You know, you mentioned that he had nightmares. Did he have nightmares until the day he died?

SA: No, it gradually went away. He gave his whole... well, more or less to the church after that. He was at the church before, but himself, he really felt he had to return. And he did help the church, Centenary Methodist Church, he helped the youths, the boys. I think he did a lot for them at that time.

MN: Now, as a widow of a 442nd veteran, were you able to participate last year in the Congressional Gold Medal ceremony?

SA: Yes, I was very fortunate to go to the White House, to the Capitol, to partake in that as a widow. We were right there, so it was memorable.

MN: When you think about that, when they announced that they were going to give the Congressional Gold Medal to the 442nd, what are your thoughts on that?

SA: I think it was long overdue, and I'm glad that... there were quite a few still veterans remaining who were able to witness it. But it was a joy for the widowed women to experience that.

MN: Now, even people who were in camp have lingering effects, and I wanted to ask you about, you have this need to have paper goods? Can you share with us...

SA: I don't know where I... that's the strangest thing. I do hoard, and it's paper goods, all different kinds. And I can't figure out why. I think it's because in camp, we did not have paper goods. I can't ever recall, and if we had toilet paper that was... we were lucky. I think that's where it's coming from, I'm just trying to analyze it myself.

MN: Now when people started to talk about redress, did you think that redress was possible?

SA: I did; I was all for it, and I was hoping that it would come through.

MN: What did you think when the redress bill was passed?

SA: I was elated.

MN: Was your mother and your husband alive still?

SA: My husband was, but not my mother. It was really for them. The Isseis are the ones who suffered the most, and that's the most unfortunate part. We're just the recipients in their name is the way I look at it.

MN: I've asked my questions. I don't know if there's anything else you want to share with us?

SA: Not really. I think it's great that you're doing this so that we can share some of our thoughts and our lives. It's just interesting because just the other night, I watched the Channel 4, NBC's news broadcast with Brian Williams, and he brought out about sixty people who wrote a book on their lives during the war. Quite a few were veterans. One was, I guess a Sansei girl, her name was Noda, last name, and talked about her parents. So even today, in this day and age, we're at that point in our lives where we have to share, and I think it's remarkable that the Yonseis, especially because I think our ethnic group is very unique in having gone through what we have, and we need to share it to let others know. So I really commend the young people, because they have the courage to do it.

MN: Since we have a little bit of time, can I ask a little bit about your father and his love of art? Can you share with us some of the antique pieces he had before the war?

SA: That's very interesting about him. He loved Japanese art, and someone he inherited a Korean vase because his brother in those days lived in Korea. And he had this and carried it with him everywhere he went. I didn't know what was in this little case. Even in camp, I don't know, this was his cherished thing. So after he passed, I found out what it was, and then I had it appraised and realized that it was valuable, that it was a Korean vase from, well, 1500s or 1400s. And so I donated it to the L.A. County Museum of Art, and made a point to ask them when they had it on display, that I would like to see it. So they made a point to write me a letter and said they were going to have an opening. I was able to go view it, and it was very nice to see that display in the Far East section, art pieces.

MN: That's amazing it didn't crack in all the travels...

SA: There's a little crack on the lid, the lip of the thing. And it has a funny lip, so we think that there's a cover that's missing. But that's about the only thing. But it's very nice.

MN: But it survived L.A. to Arkansas, to Louisiana...

SA: All over. He carried it, he treasured it, so I knew it was valuable. I didn't know what it was, but then because it was in our family, and my feeling was the only way to share it was not for any one of us to keep it, but for others to enjoy it, and that was what we did.

MN: Thank you very much.

SA: Thank you.

<End Segment 26> - Copyright &copy; 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.