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KN: But you folks actually, your husband and you, actually knew each other before college.

EK: Oh, yeah. It's like camp is a small neighborhood, so was Seabrook. Everybody knows who you are, but you don't really know, I mean, you're not really friends. "Oh, yeah, that's the Nakamura girl, oh, yeah, that's the Watanabe boy," or that so and so. But you're not really, I mean... and he was a little older so he doesn't pay any attention. Either was I too young, but later, in college, then when he came back from the army and he said he noticed I had grown up. [Laughs]

KN: Because you folks had the same experiences in Peru.

EK: Yes, similar.

KN: Very similar.

EK: Not exactly the same. 'Cause they were more elite than my parents were.

KN: And then interestingly enough, you then saw each other again at Seabrook, but again he did pay attention.

EK: We were too little.

KN: Then he went off to war.

EK: Yeah, to the army.

KN: So how did he remember you and how did you folks --

EK: Oh, well, it's just by chance, life is a chance. And at that time, Mr. Kurotobi's son, my parents owe a lot to Mr. Kurotobi because he was like a second father to my mother in Peru. But Mr. Kurotobi was a contract worker who ran away 'cause life was so hard. I mean, if he stayed, maybe he'd die already, it was so primitive and so terrible. And so when he ran away from that plantation, my grandfather, who was liked by his plantation owner, he helped him escape. He ran away without shoes. I cannot imagine that atmosphere. But anyway, so he helped him. And so there's a lot of those kind of connections. So Mr. Kurotobi was always very, he treated my mother like a daughter. So before getting married, my mother was, my dad wanted her to take business courses, but it wasn't done in those days. They all said, "No, she needs to be a homemaker, so she has to take sewing and cooking."

KN: Home ec.

EK: Yeah, home ec. And so she stayed at Mr. Kurotobi's house in Lima and went to those kind of classes. And so his son had returned to Japan, and he was coming through on his way to South America. He wanted to see the Kudo family and my parents. And so my mother said -- oh, and he wanted to go to an American baseball. Now, don't ask me which one, I have to ask my husband. But so the boys from the Kudo side said, "Okay, we'll take him to the baseball game." And Grandpa -- my father-in-law -- Grandpa Kudo was an avid fan of any sports, especially baseball. So they all went to see the baseball game. And in the meantime, my mother and I cooked dinner for them. So by the time the game was over and they drove from Milwaukee, I think, to Chicago, we ate dinner together. And that was our first adult meeting. And when he asked me about Illinois, I said, "Oh, it is so hard." [Laughs] So he said, "Boy, you thought I couldn't make it." I said, "No, I wasn't talking about, I was struggling." Because we went to a very low-standard school, so I had all these bright kids from all these, you know, American homes, they knew everything, and I knew nothing. And so I said, it's a miracle that I even passed. And it was tough. Every week they have all these tests, every week I said, "Oh, I'm going to flunk." But somehow I made it. Education. There weren't too many chances in those days, this is the '50s. So either you become a nurse -- or at first you get married. Half of my classmates married already. So then you become a secretary, a nurse, and a teacher, that's it. Not much choices.

KN: And so you graduated with an education, and your husband was, because he had been in the army, was actually a few years behind you.

EK: Oh, yeah, many years behind. But he had the GI Bill, and because he had the military, he was able to become an American citizen and not have to pay those foreign tuition.

KN: Oh, and you still had, of course, had to.

EK: No, I didn't, because by that time that I went to Illinois, I already was okay. I had the green card, so it's okay. I wasn't a citizen until junior, but I had the green card.

KN: So were you working as a teacher?

EK: Yes, I did. In a sense, my husband was going to school so I went to teach in Champaign, Illinois, for two years, and Chicago one year. And then we started our family and then we had a lot of movement, like going to Japan and living there for three years and things like that.

KN: And as you were growing and creating your family, your father and the rest of your siblings were still in Chicago.

EK: Yes.

KN: So your husband because of his business was moving and you were moving to different areas and places.

EK: Well, actually, now, my husband's story is also very interesting because he went into the accounting, and he was with another Caucasian lady, young woman, one of the top in their classes, but neither of them had any offers. One because of gender, and the other because he's a minority. No one offered him a job in the big eight. And he really wanted to work for the big eights to get this big experience, but no one would hire him. So that the professors were really very kind and said, "Well, maybe... you're not going to get an offer, you know, so why don't you go for your PhD and become a professor?" So he said, "Wow, I guess I have to." So then by that time it was rather late in getting his application, but Penn State offered him a terrific, everything paid, a job for your wife, housing, etcetera, etcetera. And they were so nice that he was just about ready to accept it when this offer came from one of the big eights. See, life is very strange. Very, very strange. And so he thought he better take this because he could always go back into teaching if he had to. And besides, he needed money. And at that time, my teaching position was so cheap. It was before the union.

KN: It still is.

EK: Oh, it is, but it's much better. When I started, it was only like three thousand for a year.

KN: Right now it's about three thousand per class.

EK: Per class? Well, mine is elementary teaching, but it's for year-round. That's all you got. So we, when we were first married, we made a budget and we stuck to it. So it's hard for us to understand how young people now don't have a budget. It was before credit cards, too, so everything was cash or checks. And so we had like groceries, eleven dollars per week and those kind of things. Our recreation was beer for him and his buddies who were all GIs. And then the women, twenty-nine cent pizza mix that we all made our own way. That was it. But it was fun and we didn't think we lacked anything. We went to the university movies, that was twenty-five cents. But we only went when it was Japanese movie that was classic, like that.

KN: And so this was in Illinois, still?

EK: Yes, Illinois. Champaign-Urbana.

KN: So how long did you folks live there?

EK: Two years -- no, actually... well, two years. 'Cause he went two years in the Navy Pier, which was Illinois then, University of Illinois.

<End Segment 17> - Copyright © 2012 Densho. All Rights Reserved.