<Begin Segment 14>

SY: Yeah, but he, but because, I guess, a lot of, there were a lot of Japanese Americans in Denver, but you, is that, that's when you started feeling a little bit of, feeling a little different?

PM: No, no. When I came out and I went to go eat at a restaurant, actually a coffee shop, and I didn't get waited on and I didn't get waited on, so somebody said, oh, because that waitress has somebody in the service and doesn't like Japanese. See, but I'm Japanese American, but she didn't know the difference.

SY: I see.

PM: And so after that I hesitated to go into any coffee shops, especially, I don't know why I went there by myself, but I was and I remember that pretty distinctly.

SY: So that was the most, I mean, do you have, remember other experiences, similar experiences?

PM: Not really, but just inside of me I didn't feel as good as the Caucasians for some reason, thinking that we're second rate citizens.

SY: And that was, that was maybe --

PM: In Denver.

SY: In Denver, so after leaving the, did camp, how was camp as far as how did you feel about being in camp with all Japanese Americans? Was that...

PM: Because I wasn't that old we actually enjoyed, we had a good time in camp. But it was harder for our parents, of course, but for us I think we were okay.

SY: But for many years you just didn't want to talk about it.

PM: No. This is very unusual to start talking about it now, so it's kind of become a blur in our minds. It's just something that happened, and we don't think anything about it.

SY: Yeah, that's so, I'm so happy that you're talking about it because, is there a reason that you, you can remember?

PM: No reason at all. I actually have the problem of forgetting things that are not so pleasant, and I tend to remember the good things, which is good, but then it's hard to remember.

SY: Right. That's very common, I think.

PM: Is that right?

SY: Yeah, a lot of people completely block out certain things about --

PM: Also happens in my business. If something had happened I tend to block it out after a while, so when people say, "Don't you remember when we had all those problems?" No. [Laughs] Then it'll come back to me, which is good for me 'cause it's not good to dwell on bad things.

SY: So that's why you, that may have something to do with not talking about...

PM: Yes, probably.

SY: Because do you remember our family talking about camp, or people --

PM: No.

SY: You remember asking them or, nobody said anything about it.

PM: No, we just didn't talk about it.

SY: So it was just a, sort of like it didn't happen.

PM: Right.

SY: And then when you, you never talked about it with your friends, obviously, either?

PM: No.

SY: Because most of the people you knew in camp, right, were, became, did they become your friends afterwards?

PM: Yes, yes. I have many people that I still communicate with from camp, which is kind of unusual. Not too many people keep up, but I have kept up with many of them.

SY: With a lot of your friends. And they are, are they like you? Do they not, do they prefer not to talk about it, do you know?

PM: We haven't even mentioned it at all. We just talk about our daily lives now.

SY: I see. So most people just don't even talk about it, which is -- so anyway, but that's, and there was no, do you remember any kind of anger that our dad felt about camp?

PM: No, I don't. 'Cause we just didn't have that kind of personal conversations in our home, and then at dinnertime Dad always said don't speak, so we had to just be quiet and eat. [Laughs]

SY: Was that only true for the women in the room, or just was he...

PM: That's all we had, besides... [laughs]

SY: Besides our brother. He didn't want anybody to speak.

PM: Yeah.

SY: He liked the peace and quiet, was that the reason?

PM: He just didn't think that we should be talking when we're eating.

SY: I see.

<End Segment 14> - Copyright &copy; 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.