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TI: So going back to that, if there were other medical facilities available, like a hospital, whether it was Emanuel Hospital or Salem, would the treatment have been different? Would the outcome have been any different?

ES: Oh sure. There was other things that they could do. They, all they could do is just put a tent over her for oxygen, for the mother, and they could give her, and they could've helped in a lot of other ways.

TI: So if, if this, in this case, if there were, I guess, just regular, current technology available, this could've been prevented?

ES: I think there was other things that they could've done while, during her pregnancy. But see, this was towards the end of her pregnancy and her heart was real bad, I think. Wasn't...

TI: Was it hard for you? Because here you had worked in a professional hospital with better facilities, better trained staff, better equipment, to have to be in this situation?

ES: Yes, not enough, and not enough medication and not enough research being done on any of these patients. And so it's sad to think that we were there at that time, but maybe it could've been the same. But then the family just, because she was suffering so much, the family, we didn't practice euthanasia that much then at that time either, but --

TI: As a medical professional, was there, I guess, who would counsel the family in this situation in terms of what to do? I mean, was there anything else that you or the doctors or anything could've suggested, or do you think that was the --

ES: Well, the husband was there to ask us for different things and we just didn't have anything. Yeah, it was, I look back on it so many times, but I don't know, it's just not anything you can answer. But I heard the daughter that was delivered before she died has been in Seattle, but I never did meet her.

TI: So let's... it sounds like it was in some ways very difficult, and in many ways Tule Lake was fortunate to have you, especially in the OB area.

ES: I think so. Well, I was fortunate that we didn't have a serious case of deliveries.

TI: But I'm guessing you were able to provide professional sort of, professionalism that they perhaps would not have had if you weren't there.

ES: That's right, that's right. A lot of times I think that too.

TI: Hopefully that avoided more problems for other people.

ES: Probably. Well, I thought I was doing my share, what I can do.

TI: So are you ever, in hearing what you just said, I guess, do you ever feel anger about what, what kind of position you were put into? I mean, knowing that it could've been much better but, how do you think about the position you were put in?

ES: You know, it's one of these things that you just have to live with. You just can't look back on it anymore. It's, some people have asked, "I'm surprised that you're not bitter, more bitter." I think yeah, but what do you do? You have to live your life, so you just keep on. But I think these things have to be brought out. Sometimes maybe this same kind of thing has been happening again in this world, what's going on with this world right now. Yeah, you wonder, with Arabs.

TI: Now, were there other kind of examples like, like the Sato case that, was that a very isolated case or were there other examples like that where perhaps people did not receive the care --

ES: Muslims, you know.

TI: No, but I mean back at Tule Lake, or Minidoka, later on you went to Minidoka. Were there, again, cases where you would think, if only we were in a real hospital these people would've, would've been served better?

ES: Oh yeah. Yeah, well just like that, when he swallowed the mercury, that could've been avoided. There's things like that that I think it's too bad, because they're working on epileptics even now, trying to find different things that they can do for epileptics. It's the time that we lived in then.

<End Segment 20> - Copyright &copy; 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.