<Begin Segment 18>

SY: So if that had not happened to you, say you had stayed in Chicago, do you think that would have changed the way you felt about yourself or would it have affected?

TF: Oh, yeah, because I think every new experience has impact on your life. I don't know, I mean, if there had been no war I would have been married to some farmer, I'm sure, from that area unless I went off to college.

SY: But it had its, it left a very strong impression.

TF: Yeah, but then it wasn't... also when I was there, the second year I was there, I started going with a fellow from New England. That was a disastrous marriage that I had. But I think it was the first time where I felt chemistry, and it was not, it was just then all of a sudden it's the sexual chemistry. And he was blond, blue-eyed, and his parents, his mother was from the Mayflower ancestors, and it's like so American. But if I had been more a whole person, I would never have married him, because I would have known it's a disaster. I was just too swept up by the... and I'm sure it all had to do with trying to fit in, trying to be accepted. His father had, was a well-known architect, he had done the beautiful cathedral at Rollins. He was the architect doing all the renderings for all the fixing of the cathedral, St. John the Divine. And when we were engaged, I should have known then. They said -- and he told me -- "Just 'cause you're engaged doesn't mean you're gonna marry her."

SY: This is his father who told you.

TF: It was the father or the mother, I don't know which one said it. And then just within the past year, my son, who's in his fifties, late fifties, said to me, "Gee, if I weren't the grandson, my grandmother would never care for me." 'Cause he's half Japanese. And my youngest one, when she told me years ago, she was crying, she said her grandmother always used to say to her, "You're the lucky one. You're the lucky one, 'cause you can pass. But your poor sister, she looks so Oriental." And so how... and so I often used to think, I think he probably was crazy about me in some way, but he was getting back at his parents in another way. 'Cause he felt superior, and he felt -- because in those days, it wasn't legal in some states to marry an Oriental, and he would remind me. And he would feel, if he said something, I should do, but I was trying so hard to be engaged. I was trying to be like my mother, whatever my husband said, not to have the thought. And I learned, I learned then, too late, you'd better have a mind of your own. But I was trying so hard, being brought up with all this being a geisha, playing these roles and trying to play another role, you can't play a role. You got to be, you've got to know who you are, and you've got to be able to stand up for who you are. But that takes growing up, and I was still... it takes time to grow up, that's all.

So that was not the best. And so I remember the concern probably my parents had at the time, and then so when my mother saw my second happy marriage... 'cause when, I thought I never wanted to be married again. I never, I couldn't even go to a wedding, I was so disillusioned about marriage. I didn't have the children. When we were divorced, the children went off to camp, and he was fooling around. He always told me who he was fooling around with, and oftentimes it's always people that I knew. One of 'em was a girl who helped me, actually, after, when I was having a very difficult time. But the children were gonna go to camp, we were gonna get divorced, everything was all set. So I went off, and then the minute I went off to New York, then he charged me with abandoning the children, and so we were in court for years. And then every time I tried to get a lawyer, his father was very wealthy, and the lawyers would say, "Don't even tell me what the problem is, it doesn't matter."

So I had a hard time, and then I -- for someone who likes to eat like I do, when I was in camp, I ate to survive. And now, today, I think I eat for the enjoyment, for the pleasure. I was down to about eighty-something pounds, 'cause if I just heard his voice, I would just get so nauseated, I would just, because he made me feel like nothing, and taunting me that I'm not going to get the children. And, "you know what people think of you," and just saying terrible things. I remember the Boston Strangler, the man who gave him a lie detector test gave me a lie detector test to see if what I'm saying... it was just an ordeal. And in the end, I didn't get the children, and I was like a visiting father. So just... and if I tried to get the children to take them to see my parents, it would be, "No." We'd have to go to court 'cause he'd say, "This is too hard. The children, it's a whole different culture, they're Japanese," and so there was a lot of prejudice attached to it. And so the children have a lot, I think, of difficulties. Fortunately my youngest one has a very wonderful relationship, but it leaves scars. And for me, the holidays were never... I just knew I couldn't be with them. So it's not like my life is always so wonderful. I've gone through difficult times.

SY: Yeah, in some ways it's character building, no?

TF: Yeah, but I didn't want to build my character. [Laughs] Enough of that.

SY: Yeah, strong, strong.

<End Segment 18> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.