<Begin Segment 23>

SY: And then so when the hostel closed were you, did you...

YM: We were still not married. We were married right after the hostel closed. So it was so funny, when the hostel closed, this lady I'm telling you about that was a missionary, she was married, she married a Japanese fellow and they had bought a house, so they used only the upper unit so the downstairs unit was open and she just had stuff in there that, nobody was living down there. So she invited us to live there, so here was this one hakujin couple and Rick and I, and then Nicky and her husband, who, she was Japanese. He was Japanese, she was... I thought it was kind of unique to be in the same house together. So we took all our meals and whatever upstairs with, Nicky and Eddie is the people who own the house.

SY: So you were, you and Rick were just sort of, by that time you were still not married.

YM: No, we were not married. Yeah. So I keep thinking, did we have separate bedrooms?

SY: You don't remember that. [Laughs]

YM: All I know is it was downstairs and everything, meals and everything else we lived upstairs 'cause downstairs was not livable really. It's just full of stuff. But so when we married, we married out of that house and so we had the little reception in that house.

SY: In that house.

YM: Uh-huh.

SY: So you were, there were a lot of people who kind of, non-Japanese people who really were very helpful during that period when you, in Cleveland, when you were in Cleveland. There were a lot of non-Japanese that kind of took you in?

YM: Well...

SY: Sort of helped you?

YM: Yeah, well, this lady that we lived with, she's the one that had the co-op house and so she invited us there, but other than Nicky I don't think there were any other Caucasian --

SY: The Franzens.

YM: Except the Franzens, yeah. We got to know them very well. They were --

SY: But they were, they were doing it more for money. In other words, they were, they were, it was their employment.

YM: Right. I know Nicky was from Indiana originally, I don't know about -- the Franzens were living in Washington, D.C., before they came to Cleveland for this particular job, and I don't know how they got the job or why or what their qualifications were to run the place, but they were very nice people.

SY: And then what was, what was Rick doing when you first met him?

YM: Let's see, I don't know if he was employed at the time, he started out working at a bakery or something like that, so that's probably what he was doing when I met him. But later on he and a group of about five fellows from Topaz, they all lived together, and at one time they were all working at Cleveland Hotel in the dining room, restaurant or whatever, in the kitchen. They were all, had some kitchen talent, I guess. But actually one of the fellows really, he became a chef at St. Francis in Chicago. He was head chef there, so he really pursued that career.

SY: St. Francis Hotel?

YM: Uh-huh. The rest of them did everything else besides work as a chef or, in the food business.

SY: Right. So they all had kind of, I guess you'd say menial jobs.

YM: Whatever they could get, but it was available. There weren't too many unemployed. There was some, something to do. And I think once one Nisei was hired there would be quite a few more, if one opened the door to one place there'd be quite a few there.

SY: And you didn't have to pay very much for living expenses.

YM: Yeah, that's one thing I never did 'cause I never lived alone. I did domestic, then I went to the co-op, then I went to the hostel, so I didn't, so then I was married so then I just never lived alone. And this, when you have room and board you could save a little bit of money, you know. It's not like having to rent an apartment. And there were so many people living in converted space because housing was so hard that everybody that had a larger house would make a rental out of their extra rooms or whatever.

SY: I see. So you managed, everybody managed to survive.

YM: Right.

SY: And then, I mean, was living in Cleveland a nice place to live?

YM: It really was. I think people were very friendly there, you know? I don't think, I don't think we heard of anybody getting any kind of a bad time, given a bad time.

SY: Being called a...

YM: Yeah, it was, they were very cordial, 'cause I had coworkers that worked together and nobody never felt anything. It was really, to me, I didn't anyway, and I never heard anyway, firsthand or any hand, where anybody was, felt any prejudice.

SY: Had you experienced that before, any kind of prejudice besides getting fired from your job?

YM: No, not really.

SY: So you were lucky.

YM: Yeah.

SY: You managed not to --

YM: Right. I don't remember.

SY: And then --

YM: Yeah, except when my, I remember my older brother saying, how come they -- the swimming pool used to be called Plunges, okay? -- and he says, "How come they won't let us in the Plunges? My skin is as white as..." [Laughs] But there was, so my older brother's era, maybe they, they might've found a little...

SY: That was back in Uptown area?

YM: Yeah, that was way back in the '20s, late '20s and '30s, so they might've felt more. I don't remember anything.

SY: But you felt, by then, even with the camp and everything, you didn't have too much problem?

YM: Yeah. I didn't. And in Cleveland it was really, it was a nice place to be.

<End Segment 23> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.