<Begin Segment 19>

MN: Let me ask you about the Commission on Wartime Relocation and Internment of Civilians, the CWRIC. Did you testify before the commission?

TN: No, nobody heard of me.

MN: Did you go to any of the L.A. hearings?

TN: Well, at lunchtime I went to one of the L.A. hearings and Rose Matsui, Matsui Ochi was testifying. She made some joke about she adopted the name Rose, and good thing her name was not Petunia or something, I don't know, some joke like that. And then just after I left was when Lillian Baker came in and tried to, got into a scrap with a little veteran guy, tried to take away his papers or something. I think when I was leaving I saw that little white lady coming in, but I thought, "Oh, I have to get back to work."

MN: Can you share with us who was Lillian Baker?

TN: She was this white lady from Gardena who seemed to hate Japanese, and really was against redress, saying that the Japanese people were the enemy. She was really dead set against redress and said the concentration camps were not concentration camps, they were relocation centers "for their own protection." "And they don't deserve redress."

MN: I know there's some use of that term, "concentration camp" and right now we have this controversy about "relocation camp," "internment camp," "concentration camp." How do feel about a lot of people, a lot of Nisei still use the word "internment" or "relocation camp."

TN: I think those are euphemisms that the government created just to soften the blow, make it seem like they weren't such bad people, that they weren't such racist pigs, putting us in concentration camps. That's like the Nazis called their camps "concentration camps" when they were really "death camps." Hitler's final solution to the Jewish problem, "final solution," same thing. Just euphemisms. Franklin D. Roosevelt called them concentration camps in his memos to his secretary of war. Back then they called them what they were, "Secretary of War," not "Secretary of Defense."

MN: Now, you know, during the redress movement, how important do you think the Nikkei papers were in assisting the movement?

TN: Pretty important in getting the word out. Letting people know where things were happening, what was happening, and how to get involved and how to send their letters and phone calls to their representatives, let all the congresspeople know that they wanted redress and they wanted it now, and how they were the victims of racism and government hysteria. And things needed to be remedied.

MN: Now you've been with the Rafu Shimpo how many years?

TN: Thirty-six years.

MN: Over those thirty-six years, how have you seen the Rafu change?

TN: Could you kind of explain what you mean?

MN: Have you seen the Rafu get better or get better and get worse, or editorially...

TN: Oh, it really got better, better and better. First it was just community news, a little bit about JACL and a few other things like that, in the '60s and '70s started to have some stories about pressing for redress and reparations, and then Dwight Chuman ran this long questionnaire in the Rafu about how the community felt about redress, what they should do, how much they should get. I'm the one that linotyped that part. So that was a big effort.

MN: Actually that was a very important survey also.

TN: Yeah.

MN: I think it put to rest what Commissioner Dan Lungren said, that the Japanese Americans did not want redress.

TN: The survey showed that most Japanese Americans wanted it, never mind what certain leaders of the community said.

MN: So you've been at the Rafu for thirty-six years. What were some of the memorable personal stories from there?

TN: Personal stories?

MN: Oh, that were personally memorable for you.

TN: Going to Washington, D.C. for the awarding of the first redress checks to the oldest qualified recipients. I think the oldest must have been about 107 years old, and there were quite a few other centenarians there. That was very satisfying just watching that. And I got to meet Senator Daniel Inouye, Senator Akaka, and of course Congressmen Mineta and Matsui. And I also got to interview this Republican congressperson from Hawaii, Pat Saiki. And I also interviewed William Hohri at the time. Got some words from him, but part of the interview was hard to hear when I typed it, I mean, when I recorded it, because all of a sudden this bugler started playing in the background, was practicing. But it came out okay. But I didn't get to meet Mike Masaoka. Earlier I had tried to get an interview with him when I was going to be in Washington, D.C., but he said he was too sick to be interviewed, but there he was at the ceremonies. So I don't know. It was a miracle.

MN: What did William Hohri have to say about redress?

TN: At that time, I don't know. I could barely hear the tape.

MN: That photo that you took at the ceremony in Washington, D.C. also was used quite often. I see it a lot at the community events.

TN: Oh, which events?

MN: Day of Remembrance events and programs at the museum. And I always know it's your photo. Sometimes you get photo credit, sometimes you don't.

TN: That's okay.

MN: Were your parents alive to receive an apology and redress check?

TN: My mother was. My father died back in 1976, I think, or '75, '76, somewhere around there. '75.

MN: What was your mother's reaction to receiving it?

TN: Good. It took a long time.

<End Segment 19> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.