Densho Digital Archive - Mits Yamasaki Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

MN: Today is Monday, September 19, 2011. We are at the Centenary United Methodist Church, Tani Ikeda's on the video camera. We will be interviewing Mitsuru Yamasaki and I will be interviewing, my name is Martha Nakagawa. So, Mits which prefecture were your parents from?

MY: Hiroshima. Other than that I don't really know too much.

MN: Do you know anything about your parents' life before they had children?

MY: No, I don't know anything about them.

MN: How many children did you parents have?

MY: Three, three boys. I have two brothers.

MN: And then where are you in the sibling hierarchy?

MY: I'm in the middle.

MN: And where were you born?

MY: Caldwell, Idaho.

MN: And when were you born?

MY: February the 3rd, 1924.

MN: Now were all your brothers and yourself, were they all born at Caldwell, Idaho?

MY: Yes.

MN: Do you know how your parents ended up there?

MY: No. Like I say, I don't really know too much about my family history.

MN: Now before your parents moved to Los Angeles, they stopped in Salinas, is that right?

MY: Salinas, yeah.

MN: Do you know why?

MY: I think my father had a half brother, I think. I'm not positive. This is what I understand. Anyway, 'cause we met them eventually and they showed us pictures of us with the family, so I think, I guess he would be my uncle was farming there in Salinas. Eventually we moved on to L.A.

MN: Do you remember what year your family came down to L.A.?

MY: No, I don't know anything about that.

MN: Where did you live in L.A.?

MY: Originally I remember we lived in West Los Angeles, Sawtelle.

MN: And then how long were you there?

MY: I don't know.

MN: And from the Sawtelle area where did you go?

MY: We moved to Tenth and Central in L.A.

MN: Do you know what kind of work your father was doing at the time?

MY: I think he used to work for Yano Crate Company. That was in L.A.

MN: Now before your mother got sick, do you recall what your home life was like?

MY: Not really too much. I guess I was... before my mother got sick... she must have got sick in 1930. I was about seven years old, six, seven. Anyway, I don't remember too much. I remember we had a... it was a pretty good life. I mean, I remember my dad used to take us out, we took miniature golf... I think he was a good father. But after my mother got sick, then my dad... this was in 1932, he got laid off work at the Yano Crate because of the Depression and things. So one day we came home from school, the house had a padlock on it and we had no home, we had nowhere. We were fortunate that the people lived across the street had a couple of boys that was near our age. They took us in for a few days so we stayed there for a few days. Anyway, my mother's best friend, Mrs. Oda, I don't know if you've... but she heard about us and came after us and says, "No, you can't be... she made us live with them. My mother used to go to this L.A. Holiness Church and the reverend there was Reverend Kuzuhara. And then he found out about us so then he contacted Mr. Kusumoto who was a founder of the Shonien and asked if he could take us in. So we were really fortunate that we got taken there.

<Begin Segment 2>

MN: Now your mother, you said she got sick in 1930.

MY: Yeah, she had TB.

MN: And so what happened to your mother?

MY: She passed away in early 1933, I guess.

MN: But she was hospitalized first.

MY: Yeah, she was hospitalized... she was in General Hospital, she went to... we went to Sunland, there was a place in Sunland, she stayed and she passed away there.

MN: So while your mother was in Sunland and your father go laid off and then you came back one day and the doors in your house were padlocked, how did you feel?

MY: Not very good. Really feel lost, but fortunately the family across the street, they had a couple of boys that was near our age and they took us in for a few days.

MN: Was this a Japanese American family?

MY: Yeah, Japanese family.

MN: And how long were you with this family?

MY: I think we were there about a week or something like that.

MN: Now during this time did you have any contact with your father?

MY: I don't remember. I don't know where he was.

MN: And so eventually Mrs. Oda came?

MY: Yeah.

MN: And she took you in?

MY: She took us in so we were there for about a month or so.

MN: Now she had children of her own also.

MY: She had three, a boy and two girls.

MN: Now how did the other children treat you?

MY: Oh, I remember they were real, real nice to us.

MN: So how did you get to Mrs. Oda's house?

MY: I don't know. I think they came after us.

MN: So at this point were you still going to school or did you stop going to school?

MY: No, we were going to school and I don't remember what school we were going to, but we used to go to Ninth Street School in L.A.

MN: Now when you were with Mrs. Oda's place, did you see your father at all?

MY: I don't remember. I don't think I saw him. I don't know where he went. In fact, I don't know how we got to Shonien, I think... I don't know who took us, I don't remember. But when we got there, I was really happy because you have a roof over your head and it was a clean place. There was about forty other kids there.

<Begin Segment 3>

MN: So when they took you to the Shonien, how did they explain to you where they were taking you?

MY: I don't remember. I think just that they would take us in and I know I felt real relieved.

MN: What year did you enter the Shonien?

MY: 1932.

MN: Did you enter the Shonien with your two brothers?

MY: Yes.

MN: And when you arrived at the Shonien, where were they located?

MY: 1841 Redcliff Street. That's in Los Angeles near Silver Lake.

MN: Now do you know if the Shonien was built purposely away from little Tokyo?

MY: No, I don't know too much about it other than there were about three previous locations. I mean, Mr. Kusumoto started with two or three and then he got a few more then he got a few more. So he moved from one house to a bigger house to a bigger house, then eventually he decided, gee, he doesn't need four Shonien. Actually Shonien is, the real name was... official name was Japanese Children's Home of Southern California. So he had a place built, it included five city lots, and it was a big place, big building. It had a sick room, had an office, it had a girls' room, had a babies room, had a second babies room they called it, a little bit older. They had a boys' room, they had a dining room, they had a kitchen, they had a laundry and it was a big place. Eventually they built a playroom, it's like a big gym, like a regular size gym and we'd play in there most of the time.

MN: So when you arrived at the Shonien, do you remember roughly how many children were there?

MY: Yeah, I think there was, including the babies, I think there was about forty, thirty-five or forty.

MN: You know, for a lot of us who don't know what the Shonien is, can you explain to us what it was?

MY: Yeah, well, the daily routine was like we had a regular boy's room that we were in but a buzzer would ring at five forty-five so we'd get up, put our clothes on, get washed, and we all had small chores to do like sweep the hallway, clean the yard... different things. And then at quarter after six we all went to the play room and they had a chapel service just like a regular church service. You'd sing songs, one of the otonas or the elders that took care of it would give a short talk. It was like a small regular church service.

MN: Was it a Christian service?

MY: Christian service, so we'd sing a few hymns, then at a quarter to seven -- it lasted for half an hour -- at quarter to seven we'd go to the dining room and so we'd line up in the hallway and everybody, okay, we go into the dining room, girls go to their tables, the boys would go to theirs and the younger kids would go. The younger kids didn't go to the church service, it's just the older ones, so there was like maybe twenty of us.

MN: And you said you went to the service a quarter after six, so what time did you actually wake up?

MY: Quarter to six.

MN: You woke up at quarter to six?

MY: Yeah, they had a buzzer that would ring and they had a buzzer to all the rooms but they'd ring a buzzer and you'd get up. That was a quarter to six.

MN: And then by quarter after six you had to go to the church service?

MY: Yeah, we had to be in the play room they called it. But it was big like a gym.

MN: And was this seven days a week?

MY: Six days.

MN: Six days.

MY: The seventh day, as we got older, they used to send us to the L.A. Union Church. So we went to church there, the Union Church after we got older. But Sunday they had a service around ten o'clock, a church service before lunch, before noon. Ten, ten-thirty or, so maybe eleven, but it was like church seven days a week.

MN: So Sundays since you didn't have this service at the big play room, did you get to sleep in?

MY: No, every day it was the same, you get up at a quarter to six.

MN: And then after the service you went into the dining room.

MY: Yeah, well, it's pretty much like being in the army, I guess, you line up for everything. So we'd line up in the hallway, everybody get okay then we'd go into the dining room.

MN: And you had assigned seating?

MY: What's that?

MN: Everybody was assigned a seat?

MY: Yeah, we all had our own... the boys had their own dining room table, the girls had theirs, the younger boys and kids, they had their own.

MN: Did you have to say a prayer before you ate?

MY: Yeah, we said, "God is great and God is good and we thank him for this food." We'd sing it like every meal.

MN: So breakfast, what was breakfast like?

MY: We had cooked prunes or cooked apricots every morning, small dish. We had a bowl of cooked cereal, and we used to call it mush, but cream of wheat was Sunday. That was the good cereal. But then we had as much toast as you wanted and then we had a cup of hot chocolate. So it was plenty, I mean, we had a lot of food.

MN: Was there any occasion for a Japanese breakfast?

MY: Never. Never had a Japanese breakfast. Every day was pretty much the same.

MN: Now when you were living with your parents do you remember what kind of food you ate?

MY: No, I don't remember.

MN: Now after breakfast, what did you do?

MY: Got ready to go to school. We'd generally leave around... I guess it was a little after seven-thirty or so. 'Cause we walked to grammar school, we walked to junior high school, we walked to high school.

<Begin Segment 4>

MN: Now which grammar school did you go to?

MY: Micheltorena. It was on Sunset Boulevard and Micheltorena.

MN: So now you're starting a new grammar school. Was it difficult for you to adjust?

MY: No, I really liked it. In fact, I still remember the third grade teacher. But I was talking to one of the fellows that I met later that was in after I had left Shonien, and he says he had the same teacher. [Laughs] That was like fifteen years later.

MN: Why did this third grade teacher leave an impression on you?

MY: She taught us a lot about Hawaii. She loved Hawaii so lot of the... we learned Hawaiian songs and things like that, but she left a real impression on me.

MN: Was this a hakujin teacher?

MY: What?

MN: Was this a hakujin teacher?

MY: Yes.

MN: And what was the student demographics like at Micheltorena?

MY: Mostly I guess ninety-five percent Caucasian. There were a few Japanese there like myself only there was a few.

MN: And how did they treat you?

MY: Like anybody else. I think since I was one of the few Japanese in our class, I think I was treated like anybody else. I never felt like I was treated badly.

MN: Now for lunch did the Shonien provide you with a bag lunch to take to school?

MY: Yeah, we took a bag lunch to school. It had a couple of sandwiches like two piece of bread... I hate to say it, but it had oleo on it and it had a piece of lettuce, that was one sandwich. They had a peanut butter sandwich and no jam, just peanut butter, but they used to put... they mix it with like honey... what's that... it's like honey but anyway, they mix it with this and it was sweet. It was good, I liked that. And then they usually have an apple or orange. So we put it in a paper bag, we take it to school, and you couldn't throw the paper bag away, you had to bring it home. So when you'd come home, you go to the office, you take the bag and you say, "Tadaima, kaerimashita. Oyatsu kudasai." Oyastu is a snack so they give us a couple pieces of senbei or those yellow, hard yellow candy, but we would always get a snack.

MN: Did they serve milk with the oyatsu?

MY: No, just get the snack, that's it.

MN: And I guess they wanted to conserve on the paper bags. Is that why?

MY: Yeah, until it got pretty raggedy, well, we'd take it. No matter what it looked like, you still had to bring it home.

MN: How long did you have a paper bag? Like did you get a new one every month?

MY: Well whenever, I don't know, every now and then you'd see a new one but you used it for quite a while.

MN: So you know in your sandwiches you mentioned the oleo with the lettuce and the peanut butter and I heard also about the beets.

MY: We used to have beets once in a while, sliced beets they would put in. Sliced cucumbers... but whatever they could use. But I remember the beet sandwiches. In fact, when I was going to school there was this one Japanese fellow that became one of my real good friends and he'd look at my sandwich and he'd say, "How can you eat that?" And so from then he used to have his mother make me one of those and it was ham, bologna, cheese, lettuce, and tomatoes, I mean... anyway, he used to have his mother make me a sandwich every day. And every day he would bring an extra nickel for me and we'd go get an ice cream. And I'll never forget him. He used to have a bicycle that he used to ride to school so he would go home with me from school, I'd ride his bike, he'd walk and I'd ride all over. And I would never forget him so he was one of my friends from the third grade 'til I left Shonien. I left when I was eighteen.

MN: Did he visit you at the Shonien?

MY: What?

MN: Did he visit you at the Shonien?

MY: No, he didn't visit me but he would walk up to Shonien and I'd ride the bike and from then he'd get on his bike and go home. I guess his family wondered how come it take him so long to get home. But he knew that I didn't have a bike, he just wanted me to enjoy a little bike ride.

MN: What was his name?

MY: George Ishitani. So later we both got in the service and ended up in Camp Holabird in Baltimore. So every month when we get our paycheck, first thing is I'd take him out go have a little chop suey dinner, but I never forget him. He was such a good friend.

MN: So going back to your routine at the Shonien, you came home, you said, "Tadaima, kaerimashita. Oyatsu kudasai." So you got your oyatsu, what happens after that?

MY: Well, we got to play until suppertime.

<Begin Segment 5>

MN: Did you have to go to Japanese school?

MY: Yeah, we did. They had a Japanese school that we went to for about an hour or so. And it was good except, you know, we never spoke Japanese so I could read and write, in fact, I could read and write up to the Book Eight which had a lot of kanji in it. But I never understood what I was reading or writing. So I was sort of sorry that we never spoke Japanese because before when my mother was living I know we used to speak Japanese.

MN: So at this Japanese school, did they teach you like Kimigayo, did you celebrate the Tenno's birthday?

MY: No, not really, just more or less reading and writing and trying to understand.

MN: So you had about an hour of Japanese school, and then what happened?

MY: Well, we could play for a little while. I don't think we ever studied but then we'd have supper.

MN: When you say play, though, what did you play?

MY: Oh, we had different things we could... I remember when we were real young we used to play marbles and see how much we could get from the other guy. [Laughs] But we played, as we got older we played a little baseball, we had a pretty good size yard. In fact, later as the years went by, Shonien acquired three or four other lots next to the Shonien so it encompassed like ten lots and we took a lot of the trees out and made one big yard, we used to play baseball there. 'Cause it was like about ten of us plus a couple of the neighbors used to play with us.

MN: What did you do when it rained?

MY: We played in our play room. We'd take off our belt and we'd have a little puck, we used to play belt hockey. [Laughs] But we all had something to do. I mean, better than being in a home where you didn't have nothing, no friends, I mean, there were always plenty of kids.

MN: So what time was dinner?

MY: Dinner was around five.

MN: And what sort of meals were served at dinnertime?

MY: They were adequate. I mean, we had plenty of food. I mean, I liked when they used to make spaghetti. They used to make it in a big pot and a lot of water, tomatoes and things like... I remember we used to get a little pile of rice and then put spaghetti on top of it so it's like eating... it's one thing I really liked. We used to get a lot of different okazu I guess... there was very few foods that I couldn't eat and one of them was cooked turnips. I couldn't fathom that so I used to put my turnips in a napkin and put them in my pocket and flush it out in the toilet, so that's one thing I didn't eat. But that's the only thing I couldn't eat everything else was edible, I mean, I could eat it, it was good for me. I liked their stew, I liked the spaghetti, Sunday was sort of a special day. We'd have, I guess we'd have a hamburger and a pile of rice, some vegetables. And we always had jell-o for dessert, so Sunday was a special day.

MN: You know when you were mentioning the spaghetti, you said they put it on rice? So you did have Japanese food?

MY: Oh, yeah, we had rice every day.

MN: And you said you had different okazu also?

MY: Yeah, different... mostly okazu I guess.

MN: And then you mentioned the cooked turnips. Now did you have to finish your meal?

MY: Yeah, you had to keep the plate clean before you took it up. We didn't just leave it on the table, we had to take it up to the kitchen.

MN: So what happens if you didn't finish your meal?

MY: Well, I don't know, I always finished mine. But like I say, I just couldn't eat the cooked turnips so then I put it in a napkin, put it in my pocket, take it to the bathroom, flush it down the toilet.

MN: So if kids didn't... let's say they got in trouble, for example, they didn't finish their meal --

MY: I don't know. I don't remember anybody really getting punished for not... I think most everybody finished their meal.

MN: Now was there corporal punishment at the Shonien?

MY: Not that I know of. I don't think they ever had such a thing as corporal punishment. I don't ever remember getting spanked or anything. I think they more or less maybe talked to you, but I don't remember everything.

<Begin Segment 6>

MN: Now I'm going to go back to a little bit about when you first arrived at the Shonien. Did the staff make you feel welcome?

MY: Oh, yeah, the staff was really almost like your own mother or father. Well, they were all mothers, mostly ladies. There was one handyman but they were all different... I mean, they were all really nice. I don't remember one that was mean or anything. In fact, I can remember most... a lot of them that were there.

MN: How about the children who were there? How did they treat you when you first came in?

MY: Oh, just like... very good I remember. I don't remember ever having any bad feelings about going there.

MN: And then when you arrived, were you able to share a bed with your other two brothers?

MY: No, my younger brother was in the second babies room they called it because he was six years old. And I was eight so then I made the boy's room, me and my older brother, and they had one room in the corner of the bedroom that had one of the otonas, the workers, that would stay in one of those rooms. All the otonas or workers are volunteer, they were all really nice.

MN: Now were all the children at the Shonien Japanese?

MY: There was three, one was a... his name was Gene Thompson but he always considered himself Japanese, he looked more like a hakujin but then he considered himself... in fact, when his daughter got married he lived in Lake Tahoe and he invited us up so we went. And when we all got there they took a family picture and he said, "Come on you guys," and considered us part of his family 'cause he didn't have any other family. Then there was another family, they were Bobby and Ira Iwada, they had a Caucasian mother. Well, she passed away in childbirth so the father couldn't take care of them and he sent them to Shonien. Other than that they were all Japanese.

<Begin Segment 7>

MN: So when you were at the Shonien, were most of the children actual orphans or did they have one parent?

MY: I'd say ninety percent of them had a parent. Very few or maybe even more, 'cause I only know a couple of families that was there as long as I was, I was there for ten years. And it's like I was an orphan because after my mother passed away I never saw my dad, I never saw him for nine years. So, you know, I just figured I didn't have a father, nobody in the Shonien knew where he was, they couldn't contact him or anything. So it's like I never had a father.

MN: But your father visited you one time, is that right?

MY: Yeah, he visited us, picked us up and took us to visit our mother. Other than that I never saw him.

MN: So when you went to go see your mother, she was at the Sunland Sanitarium.

MY: Sunland Sanitarium.

MN: How was her condition?

MY: You know, we couldn't go in. We had to stay out and she had to stay in by the screen door and we could talk to her and things. Other than that we couldn't see anything so we went to see her and that was the last time I remember seeing her.

MN: But was she able to see you boys?

MY: What's that?

MN: Was she able to see the boys were there?

MY: Yeah, she knew we were there. I remember, I guess she was sort of sad but then she was glad to see us.

MN: And then you mentioned your mother had passed away 1933. How did you learn that your mother had passed away?

MY: Well, I was in Shonien and then they took us to a memorial service. I remember this Reverend Kusuhara had the service and that's the last time I know we saw my mother.

MN: How did you feel when you found out your mother had passed away?

MY: Well, I don't know. I guess like any other kid that loses a parent.

MN: How about your other two brothers, how did they react?

MY: Gee, I don't remember. I think my younger brother was too young. My older brother was probably similar to myself.

MN: And after that you never saw your father?

MY: Never saw him.

MN: What were your feelings towards your father at that time?

MY: At first it sort of... I guess it didn't bother me, but as time went by I really felt bitter toward my dad because the other kids had a mother or father that would usually come once a month or something. They'd take them out for lunch, take 'em to a picnic or a park or something and I resented the fact that my dad never came. And as time went on I grew more bitter. In fact, as I got older and I realized I could take care of myself, when I got out of school I figured I don't need him. But I would have never seen him again if it wasn't for different circumstances.

<Begin Segment 8>

MN: You mentioned that Mr. Rokuichi Kusumoto is the founder of the Shonien. Did you have any contact with him?

MY: Not really personal contact with him. He just more or less oversaw, I guess, getting financing and things like that because it took a lot of money to run that place.

MN: Do you know how he raised money for the Shonien?

MY: Oh, yeah. Well, he had a board of directors, I guess there was like maybe ten people on there like influential people in the Japanese community. Like Mr. Fukui, Fukui Mortuary, Mr. Tsuchiya he was a very influential in Glendale, Reverend Yamazaki, St. Mary's Church, you know, a lot of influential people that he had on the board of directors and they would meet every so often. Later they had another board of directors, a younger group, 'cause like Mr. Fukui and Yamazaki, they were all pretty old, but then he got this younger group, Dr. Ishimaru, Nob Kawai, Pasadena, Miss Bessho, Montebello, Lillian Matsumoto and Harry Matsumoto but... Mrs. Sue Ando. There was a lot of people that I guess they wanted to get involved with the Shonien. And they helped to raise funds for him so he was smart in that way that he more or less got influential people in the Japanese community to get involved, and I'm sure that's how he... because I know that it took a lot of money to raise that many kids.

MN: Were a lot of the food donated?

MY: Yeah, a lot of was donated because I remember going to the Ninth Street Market with them. We had a truck, Shonien had an old Model T truck and we'd go down to the Ninth Street Market, park there, and I'd stand in back and all these people would be bringing vegetables. And they knew because I guess he had gone to these different places, and as soon as we parked the truck here comes all these different vegetables. I'd stand in the back and stack 'em up, so we always had a lot of vegetables and we always had fruit, apples and oranges. I don't remember things like watermelon, honeydew and cantaloupe and things like that, but we always had plenty of vegetables.

MN: You also mentioned that there was this program he would do bringing the children to go see movies?

MY: They used to... you mean us children in the Shonien? No, I don't remember going to too many. We did go to a few. There was a movie house on Sunset Boulevard called the Vista, it was a theater, and I remember going there a few times but we didn't go that often.

MN: Wasn't there an event though that he would show the Japanese movies?

MY: Yeah, Mr. Kusumoto used to, had a projector, and I don't know where he got these Japanese movies, these films, but I remember going with him to like Montebello. I guess he knew this Reverend Fukushima there and they would sell tickets and he would get all the proceeds from it and he'd show these Japanese movies. But I remember going with him and showing movies at different places, mostly churches.

MN: Did you understand the movies?

MY: No, I just went there just to help him set up the projector and things. But he used to go. Every once in a while I'd go with him.

MN: Were you the only one that went with him?

MY: Yeah, 'cause I was one of the older ones.

<Begin Segment 9>

MN: So you graduated from Micheltorena Grammar School?

MY: Yeah.

MN: And then which junior high school did you go to?

MY: Thomas Starr King.

MN: What was the student demographic like there?

MY: Pretty much the same. There was... I guess ninety percent Caucasian and the rest was a few Orientals, a few black people there. Few, not many, but there was a few. But I'd say ninety percent Caucasian.

MN: So at Thomas Starr King Junior High, did you start getting involved with sports?

MY: What was that?

MN: Did you start involved with sports?

MY: Yes, I guess I was pretty active in sports and played basketball, played softball, and we'd have like football, flag football and things. And I guess I grew up early so I was one of the bigger, and so I enjoyed Thomas Starr King.

MN: What other memories do you have of junior high school?

MY: I remember a lot of the teachers. [Laughs] Our math teacher was Miss Dumas, my homeroom teacher was Miss Hickey, my print shop teacher was Mr. Bishop. I remember a lot of the memories of junior high school was very good.

MN: Were these your favorite classes?

MY: Pretty much, yes.

MN: Math and print shop?

MY: [Laughs] Yeah, I think... well, I always liked math so this Miss Dumas was a pretty older lady and very strict. But I guess she must have took a liking to me because she always called me on to do different... like when she'd have problems on the board she'd always call me to... and somebody couldn't figure it out she'd call me up there. But I liked it because I could do it. Like Mr. Lober was my gym teacher, Mr. Hunt was another gym teacher but they were all really good for me, good to me, and so I never felt because I was Japanese that it was a disadvantage.

MN: Now you're getting active in sports, but did Shonien have a policy that you had to return home after school?

MY: Yeah, pretty much, we couldn't fool around too much. The only thing is since I was one of the older boys, Mrs. Matsumoto was the superintendent there and she was really good to me as far as being active in sports and things at school, so when they would have different activities at school she would let me stay. And I was really thankful that she was there.

<Begin Segment 10>

MN: Well, let's go into your high school days. Which high school did you go to?

MY: I went to John Marshall High School and I graduated there.

MN: And it was at John Marshall that you started to play football?

MY: Yes.

MN: And you mentioned Mrs. Matsumoto?

MY: Uh-huh. She was really good to me. I mean, she let me... because you play football you got to practice after school and I would get home late. And she would allow me to participate in things like that and I was really thankful that she was there.

MN: Did you make it onto the varsity team?

MY: Yeah, eventually my senior year I played. Even when I earned a letter she took me down to... not Silverwoods, but they used to have these lettermen sweaters... and bought me a sweater. I put a stripe on there with a bit M on, I was really proud of that. So when I think of it, I was really fortunate that she was there because who knows what would happen if somebody else. Maybe I couldn't have been able to participate in sports. Since I participated in sports I think that the kids in school treated me like anybody else. It's not like I was some minor or whatever, but in fact when I was a senior in high school, I had fairly good grades. I had a B plus average and stuff so in order to become a senior class officer you had to have a 4.5 or 3.5 GPA and since I had it, well, they put my name on the nominating list to become senior class treasurer. And I said, "No, I don't want it," but since the other person was not as well-known as myself, because since I participated in sports, but he was in my class really smart and everything. But I became senior class treasurer because they knew who I was; they didn't know him. And so I never felt that I was looked upon as being an orphan or being a Japanese. I always felt an equal to anybody that was in my class.

MN: So when you were senior class officer, were you the only Japanese American?

MY: No, there was a senior class secretary was another Japanese girl, Emiko Higuchi.

MN: So as part of your duty, what did you have to do?

MY: They had a class pin. I have to go around to each homeroom, senior class homeroom, go collect money for the pin. Somebody would give me a list and they'd give me the money and I'd have to take that to the office, and they have a senior class sweater, I'd have to go around collect money for that. I guess those are more or less the main duties.

MN: Did you have to go to the prom?

MY: Yeah, I went because I didn't have a car or anything. I just told this Emiko that since we both have to be there, we're supposed to be on the receiving line, so I says, "Okay, I'll meet you there," and that was my date, I guess.

MN: But why did you have to be there?

MY: What?

MN: Why did you have to be there?

MY: Well, they said class officers have to be in the receiving line, so one of my friends picked me up and we went. I didn't have to walk to school but she lived right near school so she had one of her... I guess her mother or her father must have drove her there.

MN: Do you remember what you wore?

MY: I don't remember. I remember I had a jacket, I guess. [Laughs]

MN: Do you think you wore your letterman jacket?

MY: No, wore like a... I don't where I got it but I think I had a, sort of like a suit like.

MN: Going back to your football, were you the only Japanese American on the football team?

MY: No, there was three of us I guess. Well, that was on the B team, it's smaller. And I know there was three of us, Tad Horino, Yosh Kubo and myself.

MN: Now when you got onto the varsity team...

MY: Then I was the only one.

MN: And then how many letters did you get in total?

MY: Three.

MN: What where they in?

MY: What?

MN: What did you get them in?

MY: I got them only in football.

MN: All of them in football?

MY: Yeah.

<Begin Segment 11>

MY: [Holding photograph] This is shaped like a big U, starts here in the front, goes up the hill and across again. But the first room was the sick room, then they had the superintendent's office room, then they had the office, then they had the girls' room on the end. And it consisted of like ten beds or twelve beds. The sick room had like about a half a dozen beds, and then from the girls' room it would go up, but they had a big hallway outside the room. The hallway was about as wide as this, maybe seven, eight, feet, and as you go up they had a hallway, you have to go upstairs because it was on a hill so you go to the baby's room next and then next to that they had what they called the second baby's room, and you go up some steps and go down the hall, and the next one they had a boy's room, they had like ten or twelve beds in there. Then they had, one of the otonas, they had a little room there for them. And then you go up a little bit more and then you make a left turn and then they had a hallway and then a dining room. Then the dining room, they had a kitchen next to it, next to the kitchen they had the laundry room way at the end, had two big washing machines, and, well, you can see it's on the end, and then from there on the outside they had clotheslines that we'd hang the clothes on. In fact, when I got older that was my job to do the laundry. Every night I'd go to the laundry room, they'd pick up all the clothes, put it in a sheet, haul it up to the laundry room, I'd separate it the night before. The morning... I guess when I was about sixteen, seventeen, then I couldn't go to chapel service, I had to go to do my laundry. So I would do the laundry for... I'd get up about five-thirty and go up there and I'd do about two or three loads and hang it out, then I'd go eat breakfast, but that was my job.

MN: You did laundry every day?

MY: Yeah, I'd do the laundry every day.

MN: Thank you.

MY: See that building itself was probably like three lots.

[Interruption]

MY: You just take it out of the washing machine, you put it in a wringer and it goes to the next machine, you rinse it out, when it gets through there you put it through a wringer, put it in a basket and take it out and hang it up. They had a clothesline outside there and I used to do the laundry every day for a couple years.

MN: What's a wringer?

MY: What's that?

MN: What's a wringer?

MY: Oh, I guess, yeah, nowadays they don't have it, but you know a washing machine has a tumbler, a big tumbler, and when it gets through, on the side they had a couple of rollers. You put the clothes through the roller and it'd dry it out, take most of the water out, and that would go to the next washing machine, you'd rinse it. And then when you get through rinsing you put it through the wringer again, a couple of rollers, right? And you put it through there and when it gets through there you just take it out and hang it up. But instead of spin dry it was a roller. [Laughs] That's right, today it's a spin dry.

<Begin Segment 12>

MN: So you know Shonien had this policy that when you turn sixteen you had to go to work?

MY: Yeah, they would send, when you turned sixteen they would send you out. I guess they called it a schoolboy... go to a private home, somebody that's looking for cheap labor I guess but you'd live there and they'd give you a room and things, but you get up in the morning, you got a few chores to do, you eat breakfast and you go to school. Well, you can't participate in any sport because you had to come home after school, like my brother was like that. And some of the older kids before me had gone out like that. Well, I was fortunate because Mrs. Matsumoto was there and she asked me if I would stay and sort of help some of the younger kids, and so I was lucky that I didn't have to go out and work like a schoolboy. So I went to Marshall High School and participated in sports and I graduated from Marshall High School, yeah, I was really lucky.

MN: So Mrs. Matsumoto asked you to help with the kids?

MY: Pretty much, yes.

MN: Was it difficult to supervise so many kids?

MY: No, not really. I just... there was one bully there that I sort of took care of. [Laughs]

MN: Tell us the story.

MY: Well, you know when you come home from school you get oyatsu. Well there was this one Japanese kid that came from Japan, spoke very little English and he was crying out there. I said, "What happened?" his name was Kikuo Kuge, he says, "Oh, Sam beat me up, took my oyatsu." So I went and got a hold of this fellow and I says, "What's the big idea taking his thing?" Anyway, we had a little fight and I beat him up pretty good, so he never bothered the other kids after that. But he was sort of like a bully and he'd pick on this kid from Japan, but he never bothered him after that. In fact, some of the younger kids that I've seen since, that I've met, they always considered me like an older brother that looked after them. Like this Ira Iwata's in Denver and he's about five years younger than I am, and he remembered that. And then there's another fellow that I just met recently that remembered me that way. So it made me feel pretty good that I sort of looked after the younger kids.

MN: So were the girls easier to look after than the boys?

MY: What was that?

MN: Were the girls easier to look after than the boys?

MY: I don't know. I didn't have any problem with the girls. I mean, we really didn't do that much together with the girls, played mostly with the boys. I know all the girls that went through there. In fact, I showed you that picture, the picture was taken in 1935 and I guess I can still remember sixty percent of them I guess, or more. In fact, one of the fellows that I just happened to get in contact with, his name was Smokey Sunahara, he lives in Sunnyville, well, he was in contact... or his son was in contact with this Louise Sakamoto and they were emailing each other, and he had heard I had made a DVD about Shonien and he wondered if he could get in contact with me. Well, this Louise knew who I was so she gave me that email. And I don't have no email, I don't know anything about it, so my niece was reading this letter that the two had been communicating with each other and she says, "This is his email address." I said, "Well, I don't know anything about it. Can you email him and tell him that, yeah, I am here and you're my niece"? And I sent her... I got a copy of the picture, the group picture that we used to take... it was I think around '35 or '36, I had it reproduced and then I listed forty of the sixty names that was on there. And that was taken in 1935 or something, so this son sent me a real nice thank you letter thanking me for it and saying that his dad was there and he remembers. So it makes you feel pretty good because they realize what I did. I mean, that's just the way I was, like an older brother.

MN: Well let me ask about your older brother. When he turned sixteen he had to be a schoolboy?

MY: He went out to a schoolboy, he was living with a family that lived out in Beverly Hills. And yeah, he would come to visit us every so often, when he'd get a chance he'd come. But I know it wasn't that good a life because from what I was doing and what he was doing I didn't really want to do what he was doing.

MN: What did he share with you about living with this Beverly Hills family?

MY: Well, it's just that he couldn't... like he loved to play basketball but he couldn't play basketball. He just lived with them, had chores to do, and went to school, came home, had different things to do. He couldn't participate in any school activities. So I was really thankful that I was still in Shonien.

<Begin Segment 13>

MN: Let me ask you a little bit about the holidays at Shonien. What was Christmas like at Shonien?

MY: Very good. The Japanese Christian Church, Reverend Unoura, they had a group that would collect... make Christmas gifts for must have been about twenty of us that would go down to the church. They would pick us up, take us down to the church, and they'd have a program set up for us. A few games, I remember this Reverend Chuck Severens to tell us different stories, and then they would give us, each one of us got a gift there. At Shonien we had a Christmas program. A lot of the parents would come, we'd have it in the playroom, they'd have chairs set up and then we had a program like made up of the nativity scene and things like that. They had a little program and the Elks Club in L.A., they would send a lot of gifts and things so we all had Christmas presents from different things. That was one of the nicer holidays.

MN: This Elks Club, was this a hakujin club?

MY: Yeah, hakujin club in L.A., but I remember they used to send us Christmas gifts every year.

MN: What kind of presents did you get?

MY: I don't know. I don't remember too much about 'em but I remember we got different things. I think mostly clothes but they must have got a list of all the kids that were there and the age and size and things or whatever, but I know we all got something. We had a big Christmas tree there, we'd decorate it and have a Christmas program and sing some songs and things and then they had a short program, but that was one of the nicer holidays. New Year's was nice. Helm's Bakery used to send us a bunch of sweet rolls so New Year's day we always had sweet rolls for breakfast. You never forget those things. Fourth of July, this one Chinese Restaurant, Sanko Low on First Street, they used to send a bus, pick us up, take us out to Brighton Beach. They'd have a box lunch packed for all of us and so we'd spend the day there, then we'd come back, feed us supper at the restaurant, and put us in the bus and take us to the Coliseum for Fourth of July, the fireworks show they had there, then they would take us home. And I'd think, gee, you know, you never forget things like that. So whenever I would go... if you're going to go to chop suey place that's where I would go, but it's Sanko Low.

MN: Did you know that the Sanko Low owner was married to a hakujin before the war?

MY: No, I don't know. I just knew that they did all of that for us, and you know, when you get a nice box lunch like they'd fix up and nice chop suey dinner after being at the beach and then going to the Coliseum for the fireworks show, boy, they really went out for us. So it's one of the real nice holidays.

MN: When you were at Brighton Beach, did you have any contact with the Terminal Islanders?

MY: No, we just pretty much... more or less day at the beach.

MN: Now you mentioned for New Year's the Helm's Bakery. Was there any mochitsuki?

MY: No, we never had any mochitsuki. I never knew about that until after the war. One of my friends used to do it all the time so we did it for like forty years. Every year he'd set up and we'd go over to his place and pound mochi. But in my younger years I never heard of such a thing.

MN: So they didn't serve mochi either?

MY: No, I never had mochi until after the war.

<Begin Segment 14>

MN: Now I'm going to get into the war years. You were still at the Shonien when Pearl Harbor was attacked?

MY: Yes.

MN: How did you hear about that news?

MY: I guess we must have heard it on the radio. But when I went to school, nobody would consider that I was a Japanese. They considered me an American citizen like anybody else, so I never felt prejudiced because I was a Japanese.

MN: What was your reaction when you heard that Pearl Harbor was attacked?

MY: I thought, "Boy, they're stupid." I mean, how can they possibly win against a country like the U.S.? But I don't know if they were provoked or whatever but I mean actually we thought, boy, how stupid can that be. I imagined most people probably felt that way.

MN: Did the FBI come to the Shonien after Pearl Harbor?

MY: Yeah, the first thing they did was picked up Mr. Kusumoto and took him in that December 7th. That night they came, picked him up, took him in, and I never saw him after that. He was taken to a camp in Montana, I think. I'm not positive, but he was there and he got sent back to Japan and I never heard about whatever happened. I just know because when he was in Shonien he adopted a girl that came because she had malformed fingers. So he adopted her and she... I saw her later after the war, after she came back. She went to Japan eventually and went to China and started orphanage and things because of the father, I guess. But she got married eventually, came back to the U.S., so we would go visit her. So I remember she must have passed away about ten, twelve years ago.

MN: And you found out from her what happened to Mr. Kusumoto.

MY: Yeah, pretty much.

MN: Did he pass away in Japan?

MY: He passed away in Japan, yeah.

MN: How did you feel when you saw the FBI taking Mr. Kusumoto away?

MY: We really didn't see him. They came at night and we were pretty much unaware of it. Just the next day we heard that he had been picked up, taken away.

MN: Did the atmosphere at the Shonien change after this?

MY: Not really too much. I guess we... pretty much innocent. It's not like I wonder what's going to happen.

MN: And you mentioned that the next day on Monday, nobody treated you differently at school?

MY: No, I don't think they treated me any different.

<Begin Segment 15>

MN: When did you graduate from Marshall High?

MY: February the 3rd, 1942. [Laughs] 'Cause I graduated on my birthday.

MN: And then is this when you also left the Shonien?

MY: I left shortly after that. I talked to Mrs. Matsumoto about what's the best plan and she says, "Well, we're probably going to have to evacuate." I guess she must have heard about it. And she suggested that I join or volunteer for the CCC, Civilian Conservation Corps, and so I went there and I was there for two or three months. And then when we had to get off the coast, I left the CCC and went to live with... one of the kids that was in Shonien had an older brother, Yukio Fujikawa, and he took us in we stayed with him until we had to evacuate. So we evacuated with them.

MN: Before we get to Yukio's place, can you tell me, was it difficult to join the CCC?

MY: No, just went there and they took me right in.

MN: Were you one of the few Japanese Americans?

MY: I was the only one that was there.

MN: How did everybody treat you?

MY: No different. I guess as long as I spoke English and acted... I don't think I felt any different.

MN: So as part of the CCC, what did you do?

MY: You know, their job is to... you know, like these forest trails, small dams, beaver dams, things like that I guess, pretty much.

MN: And as a CCC worker you were not restricted by the curfew or travel restrictions?

MY: No, no restrictions or nothing. But then when it was time to... we had to get out, then they told me that I'd have to leave the CCC.

MN: And then that's when you went to Yukio Fujikawa's house -- I mean farm?

MY: Yeah.

MN: And where was this farm at?

MY: He had a little farm in Downey, California, so like he had two... well actually, had three brothers and two sisters. But he took us in and we'd just sleep on the floor but we stayed there for about a month or so before we had to evacuate so we evacuated with them.

MN: Now the three brothers and the two sisters, were they all in Shonien?

MY: Yeah, they were in Shonien.

MN: So Yukio took them out of Shonien?

MY: Yeah, he took... well, when they had to get out, evacuate, well then he took them out. But he couldn't take care of them at home while he'd work and had to come home and do things himself, but he took care of all us after we had to evacuate.

MN: And then what about your two brothers?

MY: Yeah, we both went there too.

MN: So there were Yukio --

MY: Hiro, Isao and myself, and then he had Toshi, Chuck, Pat and Yuri and then he had another brother, but he was already inducted into the armed forces. Older brother.

MN: So that's a lot of people on this farm.

MY: There was, yeah. I mean, it wasn't a very big house but then I know we all slept on the floor.

MN: Did you have to help out on the farm?

MY: He'd send us out to this... one of his friends had a strawberry farm. We'd go out there and pick strawberries for about a month or so. So we earned a few dollars before we went to camp, but that's about what we had. It's not like we had a whole bunch of stuff when we went to camp.

<Begin Segment 16>

MN: So how did you prepare to go into camp?

MY: Just took what few possessions we had, few clothes is about it, 'cause I don't remember had anything else.

MN: Do you know what Yukio did with his farm?

MY: Gee, I don't really know. I don't have any idea. I don't know.

MN: So how did you know what day to gather to go into camp?

MY: He just told us, well, we got to leave, we're going whatever, and so we just all got together and we all went to Santa Anita.

MN: Do you remember how you got to Santa Anita?

MY: Yeah, I think him and a friend drove us out to Santa Anita. I don't know what he did with the car but he took care of everything pretty much so went to Santa Anita.

MN: How much older was Yukio than you for example?

MY: What?

MN: How much older was Yukio?

MY: He must be... let's see, I was eighteen... he must have been about ten years older 'cause he had a brother Hiro that was about four or five years older than me. Then he was six, seven years older than I was, I guess.

MN: Now going back to Santa Anita, what month did you enter Santa Anita?

MY: I think it was April or May, something like that.

MN: What was your first impression of Santa Anita?

MY: We had a horse stall and we had to go pick up our mattress, and there was a couple of other brothers that was in Shonien that came with us and they stayed with us so there was five of us in one stall.

MN: That sounds really crowded.

MY: Yeah, we just put the straw mattresses on the floor and I guess we got like an army blanket or whatever and we'd all sleep on the floor there.

MN: How did you feel about being put into Santa Anita?

MY: I don't know. I thought it's pretty sad that they had to take us from the coast. What did we do? We didn't do anything wrong. But it was just a government edict we had to get out. When we went to Santa Anita, this Oda family that took us in, the mother knew that my dad was there, so she, I guess her son or something told us that my father was there. First thing I felt was, "So what?" I mean, because I was pretty bitter and I felt I'm old enough to take care of myself, I don't need him. And when we get out of camp, I can go to work, we can take care of my younger brother, he can go to school, so I didn't really matter whether I saw him or not. But my older brother and the younger brother, they wanted to go see him so we went to see him. And he wanted to get together, and so they asked me what I thought and I said, "Gee, I don't know. I don't feel like I want to, what do you guys think?" But they didn't matter either way. I said, well, he has to go... by then it was determined that he was going to go to Poston. He wanted us to go together. I wasn't of the opinion that I really wanted to go, so I told him, "You go to Poston, send us a card, let us know where you're at." Well, we never got a card, we never got anything. We didn't know where he was. Well, we got sent to Rohwer, Arkansas, so we were there for about six months, then four of us decided, well, we got a chance to get out of camp and go to work so we left and went to Chicago.

<Begin Segment 17>

MN: Before we get to Chicago, let's stay in Santa Anita. And this visit with your father, did you discuss this situation with anybody?

MY: Yeah, I went to talk to Reverend Yamazaki, John Yamazaki. I knew him real well because for him to become a minister, he had to do one year of social service work and he did his in Shonien so I knew him real well. So after my dad came and wanted to get together, I really didn't want to so I went to see this Father John. And I was talking to him and he knew my situation and he knew how I felt so he says, "You know, Mits, I know how you feel and things, but don't forget he is your father and one of these days he's going to really need you." I said, "Yeah, okay, I'll keep that in my mind." But he says, "In the meantime," he says, "he can go, but keep in contact." Well, he never kept in contact so I thought, "Oh well, that's alright. We can go our own way."

Well, I left Rohwer, went to Chicago, he left Poston and went to Chicago and we ended up in the same hotel. He was going to work one day, he was a maitre d' in one of the hotels. He spoke real good English and he was going there. So I got off the elevator, I was going east, he was going west. So I got off the elevator, went to the other side, says, "Dad where you staying?" He said, "I'm staying at the Congress Hotel." I said, "Well, I'm staying there too." I said, "But I have to go to work now and I come home about..." we were working swing shift so I told him, "I'll go to work, I get home about midnight or so, eat, take a shower and stuff, I go to bed about one, one-thirty, and then I get up about nine o'clock or so." I said, "When I get up I'll come down and see you." So I went to work, came back, got up in the morning, went to see him and he wasn't there, he had checked out. He didn't go to work, he got off the El, went back to the hotel, checked out of the hotel and took off and went to New York. I thought, "Well, okay." I mean, you know, he doesn't want to face the fact that... didn't want to see us anymore. So I thought well, that's okay. I mean I'm old enough to take care of myself.

But eventually one of the Fujikawa boys was in New York and saw my father and so he says, "Hey, your dad's here in New York." I said, "Well, so what?" but he sent me his address and things and we sort of lost contact for a while. But after I went to the service and came back and eventually I got married to this girl. Well, she found out that my dad was in New York, so she would send him Christmas presents and talk to him on the phone and things, send him Father's Day gift. And after we had two sons, she said, "You know, you got two grandsons. Why don't you come out and visit?" Well, this was in 1957, so then after she kept calling him and things, he finally came out. I went to pick him up at the airport and the first thing he says was, "I'm really sorry for the way I acted all these years and things," he says, "I'm sorry." I says, "Dad, you know, it's all history now." I says... "we can still go on." Well, you figure he was only fifty-seven years old then. And I says, "That's alright." I says, "You're not that old," 'cause he was born in 1900. And I guess he appreciated the fact that my wife really took good care of him, I mean, she really catered to him. So then she'd tell him, "Why don't you come out and visit us every once in a while?"

Well, we moved to Gardena and for the last fifteen years of his life or so, I guess we sort of reconciled and he would come out every year for about a week or ten days. He'd stay with us and the wife really catered to him so he really liked that. But you know, he'd come out and I always wanted to know about family, and I kept asking him about different things but he was pretty closemouthed. He wouldn't say too much about family. And I guess I found out that he had a younger sister and I says, "Gee, I never knew we had any relatives." And she says when she found out that my mother had passed away, she looked all over for us, she wanted to take us in. She couldn't contact my dad, she didn't know where we were, and eventually, I still don't know how we got in contact with her but she would go to Japan to go visit my grandmother and her mother and my grandmother, my mother's mother. They were living together in Japan before they passed away, so she would go visit. But in the meantime, when my younger brother came out of the service, he was working in a nursery and one of the fellows that was working there turned out to be his cousin or one of our cousins. And so he says, "What's your name?" And he told him Isao and that he had two brothers. And this guy says, "Wow, I think you're my cousin." So he went to his mother and his mother says, "Yeah, that's your cousin." And so when my aunt would come out she would... you know, it's her brother-in-law or sister-in-law, she'd stay with them. And she found out where we were and that's how we got in contact with my aunt. So in the later years, my father was living in New York with a Caucasian lady, well, eventually she passed away so then after she passed away, my aunt told my dad, "Why don't you come live with me in Chicago?" So my dad went to Chicago and he was living with her 'til eventually he passed away, but he was living with her. So I would have never known I had an aunt, but it just happened that my younger brother was working with this guy that happened to be his cousin... we would have never known.

MN: How did you feel when you found out that you had an aunt and how did that first meeting go?

MY: It was really nice because she had come from Chicago and I guess my uncle and aunt, they were living in Long Beach. So when my aunt came, they called us and we went down to see her and I thought, "Wow, here we got a nice rich aunt and uncle and we didn't have nothing." And she was looking all over for us but I was really thankful that we got to meet her. She was a real nice lady.

<Begin Segment 18>

MN: Now before the war, when she found out your mother had passed away, where was she living?

MY: She was in Portland, Oregon, but she says, "You know, I didn't have too much then." I mean, times were hard, but still she wanted to take us in and raise us as her kids. Because she had one son that she lost early and she wanted to take care of us.

MN: After you reconciled with your father, did you two ever visit Hiroshima together?

MY: No. Before he passed away he used to come out every year, and I told him me and the older brother Hiro was going to go to Japan on a tour. "Don't you want to come?" I says, "We'll take you to Japan." "No, I don't want to go." He refused to go and I found out that my aunt was saying something like to the effect that he was sort of like a black sheep or outlaw in the family, but he never wanted to go. I thought maybe if he went with us he could take us to show us different places, but he wouldn't go. Yeah, I wanted him to go but he wouldn't go. This was in about 1980 so we went on a tour to Japan but we didn't know anything.

MN: Did you ever learn about your mother's side?

MY: Yeah, I had a cousin that was... this must have been about 1960, I guess. Anyway, after I found out that we had an aunt, she sort of kept in contact with us. And this cousin was in New York with her husband and she was pregnant and wanted to have the baby in Japan. So then she was talking to my aunt and my aunt says, "Yeah, you know, you have a cousin in California. When you go there, I'll have him pick you up, you can stay with him." 'Cause she had talked to me earlier. I said, "Yeah, if she wants to stop by I'll be glad to pick her up." So I went to the airport and picked her up, but it's tough being... conversing in Japanese when I can hardly understand myself. And I learned a few things about my mother's side. She came from a big family. I think there was something like eleven or twelve siblings, and she told me they were all real well... did real well in Japan. Like one was a mayor or something, another was a ship builder, but when she came she stayed with us for about a week and we had her address and everything, but we never kept in contact. Well, when we went on this tour, we had lost the address, we couldn't find anything so we didn't know anything. And it was too bad because if we would've known I would have looked them up. I'm pretty sure she was telling us quite a few of my mother's relatives were in Osaka. And we had gone through there, but like looking for a needle in a haystack, so I never got in contact with anybody. It's too bad because my dad, I mean, he knew everything but he wouldn't say too much. And my aunt, when we'd see her, she'd tell us a few things but we didn't see her that long.

MN: Now your mother died in 1933?

MY: Yeah.

MN: When did you locate her ashes?

MY: After we came back from... after I got married and my dad came out. Yeah, after he came out and we went to the Fukui Mortuary, and my mother's ashes were still there. So then we got the ashes, we bought a little plot in Evergreen Cemetery and we buried her there. And we had a little service there. This was... must have been around 1960, somewhere around there. So she was at Fukui Mortuary for quite a while.

MN: How did you know her ashes were there?

MY: My dad knew. We would have never known, 'cause Memorial Day they used to take us to Evergreen Cemetery and I guess some of the other kids had relatives... somebody that was there. But I'd go there and I'd get a few flowers and I thought it was my mother but it wasn't. Because I found out later that my mother's ashes were at the Fukui Mortuary. And I remember when I was in Shonien they used to take us to Evergreen once in a while, Memorial Day.

MN: So was your father paying Fukui Mortuary to keep her ashes there?

MY: I don't think so. I really don't know.

MN: So when you had the burial at Evergreen, was your father present?

MY: Yeah, he came and that's when we buried her there.

MN: And she's still buried at Evergreen?

MY: She's still buried at Evergreen. And so when my father passed away in Chicago, we went to Chicago. In fact, when he was sick, he had a brain tumor and he passed away from a brain tumor. But my aunt called and says, "Hey, your dad's pretty sick," so we went to visit him and things and then not too long he passed away. Well, we went for a funeral service and then had the ashes, we brought it back and buried him in Evergreen with my mother.

MN: Your experience with your father, has that affected your... how you raised your children?

MY: I guess so because I don't think I would have ever, even if something happened to my wife, I would have never let them go. I would have kept them with me as long as I could. In fact, one of my friends lost his wife very... when the kids were real young and that's what I told him. I says, 'Don't ever let your kids go." I said, "It's not a good experience."

<Begin Segment 19>

MN: Mits, I'm going to take you back to Santa Anita.

MY: Yeah.

MN: Did you work in Santa Anita?

MY: Yeah, I signed up as a policeman. I was only eighteen years old but I guess I was pretty big for a Japanese, so one of my friends says, "Hey, let's sign up for the police department." He was about three four years older than I was so we went, signed up, and we used to walk patrol and stuff. I used to walk with this one fellow Shig Chikami, and when they had this sort of a mini riot in Santa Anita, they fired all the policemen. So then we all... I don't know if you ever heard of the Exclusive 20 that used to be sort of like a, I guess yogore type gang or something. But anyway, most of them were in the police department and this Shig was part of that group, so we all signed up as dishwashers in one of the mess halls. So we went to work in the red mess in Santa Anita. But it was sort of fun working with all those guys. I mean, they may have had a bad rep but they were all really nice to me.

MN: How did you get friendly with the Exclusive 20s? Because they were pretty cliquish and they were --

MY: Well, see this Shig knew quite a few of the members there, I guess. He was real close with most of them. So then I guess he introduced me to a lot of them and that's how I got to know them, and I never really what you call associated. I mean, I never was really that friendly with them but they accepted me as just another person. And so we used to work together in the red mess but I remember people treated them with respect. [Laughs]

MN: And I know a lot of the Exclusive 20 boys used to lift weights at Santa Anita. Did you do that also?

MY: No, I didn't. At that time I wasn't interested in that.

MN: So when the riots broke out, where were you?

MY: Gee, I don't remember. I don't know, I forget. I didn't even hardly know that there was a riot myself.

MN: Why did they fire the police department?

MY: I don't know, but I know they got rid of all the police department. They figured police department didn't do any good in the riot so I know they fired all the police department. So we all went to work in the red mess.

MN: Did you get into any fights?

MY: No, never.

[Interruption]

MN: Talking about how you got fired from the police department in Santa Anita, so other than that experience, what did you do on your free time at Santa Anita?

MY: I got to be friends with this Shig Shiroishi. He was a weightlifter; he used to lift weights. I mean, he weighed about 135, 140 pounds, but boy, he was strong. I used to do a little bit of weightlifting with him there. Then when we went to Rohwer he got into Rohwer, too. And I became real interested in lifting weights with him so I did a lot of that in Rohwer. I didn't do that much in Santa Anita.

MN: Did you do any work at the camouflage net?

MY: No, we used to go visit every day. One of my friends had a girl that he met from San Jose that he liked and we used to go visit every day. And I'm sure they would eventually got married, but I know every day we used to go there. "Come on, Mits, let's go," and we'd go up there and go visit 'em at the camouflage nets. So this girl had a girlfriend they figured that I would eventually end up with her, but I wasn't just interested in girls. I didn't want to get tied up with any girls at that time, so we went to Rohwer and his girlfriend went to Heart Mountain, Wyoming. Well, I know he used to write her... she used to write him a letter every day and I'd go up to his... he lived in a different block than me. He lived in Block 4, I lived in 16, so I'd walk up to his place every day and he's in a room there writing a letter, pretty soon he'd crumble it up and he'd throw it away, but he never wrote her a letter. He just thought that the letters he was writing was no good so he'd crumbled it up, had a wastebasket full of paper. So they eventually split up but I'm sure if they would've continued, they probably would've got married, but he never wrote her a letter. I know every day I used to go there. [Laughs] It was funny, so I would go see him and him and his brothers lived in one room, his sister and the folks lived in the next room. So then I'd go see him and he's writing and I'd say, "That's okay, you just keep writing. I'll go visit your folks." So at first his folks used to think, "Man, how can my sons go around with this kind of a yogore?" I guess that can't speak any Japanese. But I got to know them and they really treated me good. They treated me like their own son and when I was in the army I'd go visit and I'd stay with them. They really treated me good.

MN: Did you dress up in a zoot suit kind of style? Did you dress up in a zoot suit?

MY: No, I just had regular clothes. [Laughs] I was never one of them, really, so to speak. It's just that because I was in the police department and because the fellow that I used to walk the beat with knew... I guess he was maybe one of the members of the... but he knew all of them. He was good friends with like Bud Mukai and Kuma and Yami. So I got to know them, but to me they were not zoot suit yogores. I mean, they were just regular people because they treated me like a regular person. I don't know, before the war, they may have been sort of a different group or an obnoxious group, but when I knew them they were just treated like regular people.

MN: Did you go to any of the dances at Santa Anita?

MY: Not really. I never went. I know my dad, well, see, he was only... when we went to Santa Anita he was only forty-two so he used to go dancing, he loved dancing. But I never learned how to dance 'til later, and I didn't know any girls anyway, but the only ones I knew were like Toshi's two older sisters. But at that time we never danced or anything.

<Begin Segment 20>

MN: So how long were you at Santa Anita?

MY: For about six months.

MN: And then from there you were sent to Rohwer?

MY: Went to Rohwer, yes.

MN: What do you remember of the train ride from Santa Anita?

MY: Yeah, it was shades down, you don't see anything. It's just a long ride, pretty dreary ride, I guess. All you did was eat and sleep.

MN: Where did you eat?

MY: Huh?

MN: Where did you eat?

MY: They had a dining car, we used to go to eat. They'd tell us lunch time or dinner time, they'd call you by the car.

MN: Who served you?

MY: I don't know. I don't remember if we just served ourselves or whatever. But I remember we used to go to a dining car to go eat.

MN: So it wasn't African American porters that served you?

MY: No, I don't remember.

MN: Now it was a pretty long train ride.

MY: It was a pretty long train ride, yeah. You figure from Santa Anita... you had, every so often you had to stop and pull off to the side and things like that. It was a long ride. But then in Santa Anita I made friends with a few people and, I mean, that's how I guess we sort of got through it.

MN: Now I imagine there was no beds there, you had to sleep.

MY: No, you just sit in a chair.

MN: Now did some people just sleep on the floor?

MY: No, I don't remember. I think pretty much just sit on your bench like a bench seat, wooden bench seat, but it was a pretty boring ride I guess.

MN: Did you get any motion sickness?

MY: What?

MN: Motion sickness?

MY: No, I've been pretty lucky that way, never get sick on a boat. Like when I was in the service, went to Japan, never got sick.

<Begin Segment 21>

MN: Now the train, when it arrived at Rohwer, do you remember what time of the day it was?

MY: Yeah, it must have been afternoon when we got there. Well, see, this Yukio, he took care of everything. Went up got us registered or whatever and told us, "Okay, we're going to Block 16," and so we really didn't have to do too much. He did everything.

MN: What was your first impression of Rohwer?

MY: A lot of barracks. I guess it's sort of like an army camp. But I guess at that age you figure I was eighteen and it wasn't too bad because by then I had made quite a few friends that I got along with real well.

MN: So how many of you lived in one room at Block 16?

MY: Well, actually, it was supposed to be three of us, but then four others moved in with us. So we made bunk beds alongside the wall... I don't know where we got the lumber but we made bunk beds alongside the wall and had seven of us in that one little room. So we'd put the mattresses on the floor and wrestled at night and when it was in the wintertime we had a big pot belly stove. Nighttime, supper, one of the fellow's mother worked in one of the mess halls so she'd bring home bread, peanut butter and jam, and we'd put the toast up against the pot belly stove and that was pretty good. But there was seven of us that lived in one room.

MN: All bachelors I'm assuming?

MY: Yeah, all bachelors.

MN: And then your two brothers, right?

MY: Yeah, my two brothers and four other people.

MN: So now you're living with your brothers in one room. Did your relationship with your brothers change?

MY: No, pretty much the same.

MN: It didn't bring you closer together?

MY: Yeah, I guess in that way it did. But we pretty much all had our own group, 'cause I had made friends with a few people that I met from Santa Anita. And every morning after breakfast I guess I'd take off and I'd go visit my friends.

MN: Now at Rohwer, what kind of work did you do?

MY: Originally I guess I joined the fire department, but you don't really do anything.

MN: Why did you choose the fire department?

MY: One of my friends was there. [Laughs] So I went there but I guess one of my friends was there that's why I went. That's why two of us... well, three of us went, signed up there. All we do is go up there and sleep. At night they used to play mahjong had these little gambling games, but we never joined in we never play. All we did was go up there and maybe read a magazine or whatever but we didn't do any work.

MN: You didn't put out any fires at Rohwer?

MY: They had one that I slept through. [Laughs] But I never went. One of the mess halls that had a little fire on the roof. By the time they jumped on the fire truck I was still just getting up. I didn't make it.

MN: You know, when you joined the fire department, did you have to go through any training?

MY: No... yeah, we did do a little bit like how to take the hose off, roll out the hose and that's about it. I mean, we never really did that much. We didn't like polish the trucks. I mean, it was an olive gray green like kind of truck. It wasn't red, but it was a fire truck.

MN: So you mentioned earlier that at Rohwer you started to go to the dances.

MY: Yeah, I did.

MN: Who put on these dances?

MY: Well, these different, like the people that I met, my friends, they were all mostly from Hawthorne so they called themselves -- they were the Hawthorne Y group they called them. And it was a group of people, must have been fifteen or so in there, so every once in a while they'd say, "Okay, we're going to have a dance." I'd say that, "Okay, I don't know anybody so I won't be there," and my friends would all say, "No, no, it's okay. I'll fix you up." So this one dance one day, I had one of my friends... next day he comes over, he says, "Hey, Mits, I got you a date." I said, "Okay," and pretty soon one of my other friends comes over and says, "Hey, Mits, I got you a date." I said, "I can't take two girls." [Laughs] So he took the one that he got for me, but I didn't know any girls in camp. But I had learned how to dance... this Yukio had a sister and she was real... she learned how to dance so she was teaching us, but it got to be fun. I used to go, and I got to know a few different girls and eventually I would go to a few dances. But I never really got involved with girls 'cause... I don't know. At that time I just, I guess I wasn't ready to get involved with girls.

MN: So Yukio's sister taught you how to dance?

MY: Yeah.

MN: What kind of dances did she teach you?

MY: Waltz and swing, we used to do a lot of jitterbug in them days.

MN: Now at the Shonien you were going to church service in the morning every day, every morning. Did you go to church at Rohwer?

MY: Yeah, we used to go to church.

MN: What was that like?

MY: Reverend Sakauye and we would go there. I guess it's just out of habit. I guess you go to church every day for ten years, it's just in your system. In Rohwer I remember we used to go to church service. I don't know if we went every Sunday but we used to go quite a bit.

MN: How about sports? Were you active in sports in camp?

MY: Yeah, our club, the Hawthorne Y Juniors had formed a little football team we used to play against some other teams but it wasn't that big a thing. I think our main activity was lifting weights. I knew quite a few of the fellows that used to lift weights, and those are pretty much my main activities in Rohwer.

MN: Now when you're lifting weights, if you don't know what you're doing, you can injure yourself.

MY: Oh, yeah. This fellow Shig Shiraishi, he was almost like a pro lifter. I mean, he was good. He'd teach you all the proper techniques and things and he was really good. So that's how we learned.

MN: Now in 1943, the "loyalty questionnaire" came out.

MY: Yeah.

MN: Did Rohwer have meetings to discuss this?

MY: No, I don't remember. I never went to a meeting. I don't remember that too much about they say "no-no" or "yes-yes" or whatever. I never realized that there was so many people opposed to it that answered "no-no" and that. I don't remember myself being that way.

MN: Did anybody pressure you to answer a certain way?

MY: No, I just, pretty much your own conscience I guess.

MN: Did you discuss it with your brothers?

MY: No, never. Just automatically... I would never think about putting "no" on there 'cause I don't think I was ever pressured that way or whatever. Some people had that conviction and that's their priority. They can do what they want. I never even thought of it until after the war and I heard about so many people that resisted and got put in jail and things. I never even thought about it, just that I heard about it later. And in fact I met one of them that was one of the resisters, and I thought, yeah, I guess he had his own way. I mean, that's the way he felt. But I never thought of it I just heard about it later. So it wasn't that big a thing for me.

<Begin Segment 22>

MN: Now while you were in Rohwer, did you have opportunities to go out of camp?

MY: Well, we'd sneak out, but I remember we used to go... about four of us would sneak out, we'd go swimming in a couple swimming holes. And we found out that there were snakes and stuff in there and then we said, "Oh, that's it," and we never went again. [Laughs] But we used to go out once in a while. Just sneak out when we had a chance.

MN: Did you get chiggers?

MY: No, I guess there was a guard tower there but I never noticed that they would ever shoot at us or whatever. But I know we used to sneak out every once in a while.

MN: So like you didn't get an opportunity to go visit McGehee or any close...

MY: Where?

MN: McGehee, the town of McGehee?

MY: No, never went.

MN: Or Denson.

MY: Yeah, I never went. I guess some of the people that used to work in the warehouse, I guess they'd get on a truck I guess they would go out once in a while, but I never went out.

MN: Do you think living in Shonien helped you prepare for camp life?

MY: Pretty much. I think I... when you're sort of restricted, like you can't just take off and go when you want to, then I guess it makes life easier and camp like that than some of the people that weren't. Because like in Shonien you can't do whatever you want, you can't go out, say, "I'm going to go to the beach today," or, "I'm going to go visit my friends today," or... it's pretty much like army life I guess. So that way I guess it helped.

<Begin Segment 23>

MN: How long were you at Rohwer before you got a leave clearance to leave?

MY: We were there about six months and then we went to... about six of us signed up and went to work on the railroad in Kansas City. Not Kansas City but it's Wellsville, it's about fifteen miles from Kansas City. And we lived in one of these little boxcars, in the morning we'd get up, eat breakfast, they'd put us on a little trolley and we'd go out and fix the rails. Pretty much you just get like a small hedge hammer and you pound in these stakes... they'd come loose. That's what we did there, but I mean, we were there with about another six of us, I think, so it wasn't that bad. First few nights couldn't hardly sleep because trains go by right next to the track, but pretty soon you get so tired you just go to sleep. So we went there, we worked there for about six months and then we went back to Rohwer. Then we had this opportunity to go to Chicago. Well, it's not really Chicago, it's a nursery, Premier Rose Garden wanted some people to come work there so about the same six of us signed up and we went there.

MN: Now the six of you, were they including your brothers?

MY: No.

MN: What happened to your brothers? Did they stay in camp?

MY: Well, my older brother had volunteered for the army but my younger brother, he was still there with like Yukio and his brothers, so I went out by myself. He came out later with them.

MN: Did your older brother... did people in camp give him a bad time for volunteering?

MY: No, I don't think so. He just volunteered and before you know it he was gone. He volunteered for the 442nd and he was one of the original members I guess of that group. But I didn't want to go volunteer for the service then. I figured well, I got to look after my younger brother. So I went to Chicago, I figured I could go work there and make a few dollars and when he gets ready he can come out, 'cause he was still going to school then.

MN: So you went to the railroads, came back to Rohwer, then went to Premier Roses in Illinois?

MY: Yeah.

MN: What did you do at Premier Roses?

MY: Premier Rose Garden, they had about a dozen greenhouses. Then they assigned two of us to work with one of the persons that was more or less in charge, so we'd water all the plants, we'd fertilize the plants, we'd syringe the plants, you know they never sprayed the roses with fertilizer, I mean, spray to kill the bugs. It's like a spray you put on the end of a hose and you wash the under leaves and you put a raincoat and stuff on. He's on the other side, I'm on this side, we're washing but we would syringe they called it, and we'd wash all the roses but that was pretty much our job there. When you're first there, you don't go around just cut the rose and flowers, you have to learn how to... you can only cut 'em at a certain place and you have to be so long and you have to cut it in a place that the next bud can come out and things like that. First, before you even start to cut them, all these little buds, you pinch them off, you break them off so that another stem would come out and shoot up, it would make a longer stem. You know, they're looking for long stem roses, so that's what we did then. So we worked there for about, must have been about a year or so, then we heard that in Chicago if we went to Chicago we could make a few dollars more, so then we took off from Premier Rose Garden and went to Chicago.

MN: And this is when you met your father again?

MY: That's when I met my father. My father had come out from Poston and I couldn't believe it. My friend said, "I think your father's here." I said, "Oh." Didn't even think about it then. One day on the Elevated going east, he's on the other side going west. So I got off, went over and talked to him and asked him, "Dad where you going?" He's says, "I'm going to... I'm a maitre d' in one of the hotels," so he's going to go to work. Well, I went to work and the next day I came back, went down to see him, and he had taken off. He didn't want to have nothing to do with us so he went to New York and I never... see, that must have been '43, 1943.

MN: When that happened to you, how did you feel towards your father?

MY: I figured, well, that's okay. He can go his way I'll go mine. I mean, I can take care of myself, I don't need him. So I figured that was it. I figured well, I guess I'll never see my father again. But it didn't bother me in the fact that you lose a father or mother. Just that I never had one. So it didn't really bother me. It's just that if I never got married I would have never saw my father again. [Laughs] It's just my wife was so concerned that I have a father and he's out there by himself. But you know, as I think about it, 1950 when we got married, he was only fifty. And I think about it, fifty, gee, my kids are older than that. So he was well able to... 'cause when he came out in 1957 I had gotten married, I had been married already seven years. And I had done fairly well financially and so I had my own house, I had my own car, I had two kids, I had a good job. But I says, "You know, Hiroshi and Isao," I said, "Both of them don't have their own place, they're not really that well off," the older brother had a son that had problems physically, had to have operations and things. And I says, "It's not too late to help 'em." "Well," he says, "but I've been living with this lady for a lot of years. I can't just leave her." But I think to myself, I says, "Gee, you mean we don't mean that much to you?" Well, he went back to New York, and since my older brother was sort of like a mechanic, he wanted to start a garage and have a gas station and stuff. You know, Dad could have came out and helped him, but he chose to go back to New York. So I couldn't tell him, no, you can't do that. He's got his own life to live. But I sort of felt bad that he didn't want to help my two brothers. 'Cause after I got married, for me, life really turned around. I guess if it wasn't for my wife it would have been a lot different.

<Begin Segment 24>

MN: Let's talk about your wife. How did you meet her?

MY: Well, one of my friends that was in, he was one of the Hawthorne Y Juniors, he went to Colorado to work for a family and I guess he got to know them real well, eventually he married one of the daughters. But while he was there, they wanted him to come to Chicago to buy a truck, a used truck, so he came to Chicago to buy a truck. Well, he got the truck and he was going back to Denver. Well just about that time I had got my notice to... or induction for the service. So he says, "You ain't got long to work here, why don't you just quit your job and come with me out to Denver? You could have a little good time for a while and then you can come back and go back to the service." He said, take a month. So then I went back to Colorado with him and then he knew my wife so when they would go to dance in Denver... they used to have a YMCA there that had dances, I think it was Wednesdays or something. He'd go pick up Mary, the one I eventually got married to, so I met her about in 1945 and we didn't get married until 1950. But, see, I had gone to the service, I came back, I was working for a while. Eventually they moved from Colorado and came to L.A., then I got together with her again and we started going around and then we got married. So I was really lucky that I came back with my friend, went to Denver, and got to meet her. And it's not that we wrote to each other all the time, we did write once in a while but it's not like we were... it's just that they came back from Colorado and I had... my friend was in L.A. so eventually I was working on a fishing boat and come into town and I'd visit. And we'd go out every once in a while and he said, go. So he called up my wife, so we'd go out a few times and then after that when I'd come in town I'd call her up and we'd go out, but it's not like she was there all the time. I figured that's the kind of girl I want for my wife, so that's how we got married.

MN: And did you tell her about your life at the Shonien before you got married?

MY: She knew about it after a while. I didn't tell her right away. But I guess like when we got married, her folks wondered, how come this guy is such a poor man. He doesn't have all the money that he'd want for a son-in-law. Well, it's just that when I came out of the service one of my friends was farming, the Chino family was farming, so I went to work with them and we all farmed together. Well, we didn't make anything. Well, one of the brothers that was my best friend, they had a cousin that had a fishing boat. And it was a small fishing boat, and the cousin had told, "Come on. Why don't you guys come out?" So we went out fishing with his father and it the boat was too small to really make a lot of money. So we'd go out fishing and things, but I never did anything that was financially that great, so when I got married I was a very poor man. In fact, for our reception, my buddy, my friend, paid for the reception. We weren't even going to have a reception.

MN: Where did you get married?

MY: Las Vegas. Went to Vegas, my friend that was in Denver was out in L.A. and we drove to Vegas and got married and came back. See, he had a four unit apartment, and he was going to Colorado... back to Colorado with him in-laws and they wanted him to run their farm. So he said, "Why don't you stay in our apartment, take care of the apartment?" I said, "Oh yeah, that's great," and that's how we started out in life. That was in 1950.

<Begin Segment 25>

MN: I'm going to take you back to Chicago, okay?

MY: Yeah.

MN: You met your father there, but what kind of work did you do in Chicago?

MY: Different kind of work. Worked in a place that made license plates for the state of California, but I didn't work there that long. So me and this other fellow went to work for Illinois Meat Packing, we used to carry all these cows, cattle after they cut 'em in half. And we'd take it, and the only thing was we were only there for about a few months. I guess somebody from this Great Lakes Naval Station came down and saw us working there and here they're having a war against Japan and Japanese working for our... you know, they can poison our meat. So we got kicked out of there. We couldn't work there, we didn't have no, I guess, clearance. So then I went to work for... it was a warehouse for like a Safeway market except they had a warehouse in Chicago. I worked there for about a year I guess and then I got drafted into the service.

MN: And so this was in '45 that you got drafted?

MY: Yeah.

MN: Was the war still going on?

MY: Yeah, after I got through my basic training I think that was August, early August, and I was going to Fort Snelling, Minnesota, because I was supposed to be an interpreter or translator. I can't even speak Japanese. But we were on the train going to... when VJ day was announced, and that's why I knew that the war was over. So I went to Fort Snelling, you know, that's a translator and interpreter school, and here I can't even speak Japanese. How am I going to interpret? So I stayed there for a while, they didn't let me go to school 'cause I couldn't speak Japanese, then they sent me to... transferred me to Camp Holabird, Maryland, that's a CIC school, Counterintelligence School.

MN: Going back to your basic training, where did you do basic training?

MY: Camp Maxey, Texas, it's about fifty miles from Dallas.

MN: Now was there segregation in Texas?

MY: What was that?

MN: Segregation?

MY: No, not at that time. There must have been about six of us in one group, but I don't feel like we were discriminated against. In training you have a platoon leader, and then sergeant appointed him platoon leader and then he appointed me platoon guide, you know you walk on the side you carry a flag. I was lucky because I didn't have to carry a backpack like they go on a fifteen mile hike or whatever, I just carried the flag. I was fortunate. I guess I could walk straight. [Laughs]

MN: How did you get picked to go to MIS school?

MY: 'Cause I have a Japanese name. You have a Japanese surname, automatically you go to Fort Snelling. So when I got there, one of the teachers or something or whatever, they talked to you. I don't understand nothing. I couldn't speak hardly anything. Well, after fifteen years you don't speak any Japanese, you forget everything. The only thing is I remembered a lot of the kanji and stuff. I could read and write it still, but I just couldn't speak it, I still can't speak it... very little.

MN: So that's why they sent you to the Counterintelligence Corps?

MY: Yeah.

MN: And what was the CIC training like?

MY: It's like, I guess pretty much like... well, counterintelligence. You pick locks, you're supposed to feel the pulse of the nation. I guess that's what it is, but they teach you... you got different classes that we used to go to pretty much like secret service class that you would go. They were all Japanese there, but that was good. I really liked it there because Friday after class we could take off. And first week we'd go to New York because we just had our paycheck, and the next week we'd go New York. I mean, the train is free, hotel is free, all we have to do is eat. So I had, one of my friends had a sister that was there and I'd call her up and we'd take her out to chop suey and that, but I'd go to New York... we always went to New York first weekend 'cause you could go to the USO and get tickets for shows. The only thing you had to do was eat. Then as it got later we would, pretty soon we'd run out of money so then we'd go to Washington, D.C. and they had a USO, we'd go to dance and all that. But it was fun in Baltimore. At that time it was 'cause you didn't have to pay for any train fare, you didn't pay for any bus, you could go wherever you wanted. We used to go to Seabrook, New Jersey, you know, where they had Japanese, and they used to have a dance there Saturday night. So one of my friends that we'd go with to Seabrook, he knew somebody there so then we'd go there. But it was a good life for me. I liked that.

<Begin Segment 26>

MN: When did you ship out for Japan?

MY: We were there for about three, four months, I guess, then we got shipped out to Seattle. Then we were in Seattle for a little bit, then pretty soon they put us on a boat and went to Japan. Well, when I got to Japan after being in, I was in the service for quite a while without really doing anything because when I went to Fort Snelling I didn't go to school for about two, three months. All I did, they gave me a job as a janitor in the theater. That was the best job in whole camp 'cause I'd go there early and I'd lift up all the seats and I'd pick up all the change. So I always made a few dollars every day and the new recruits... Fort Snelling was a recruit station, and the new recruits, they'd send me a half dozen guys and I'd give 'em a broom and I'd say, "Okay, you sweep it up." But all I did was go lift up the seats and pick up the change and I was the theater janitor. So when I went to Japan, I already had fourteen months or something in service, and they were letting out servicemen after eighteen month or so. So when I went to Japan, they had a school there in Tokyo and they looked at my record and they said, "Gee, you're going to be released in four months. We have to go to school here for two months and then you can only go out for two." They said, "You have to sign a waiver." I said, "No, I ain't going to sign no waiver. I ain't going to sign nothing." So they kicked me out of the CIC and sent me to an MP battalion in Yokohama. I went to Yokohama and I go to this MP station and I think, man, this is the worse job in the world. So they had a CIC office there, that's a criminal investigation division, and they needed a company clerk, somebody to do a morning report, payroll and stuff like that. And since I had on my thing that I had typing, I could type 'cause I had learned that in high school. When I was a senior I had everything completed and so I just did it just to learn something. Anyway, that was on my MO so this CO says, okay, got me transferred to a CID office. That was really good so I stayed there for a year 'cause I really liked it there, and they made me from a buck private to a staff sergeant in about six months. [Laughs] And I had some friends in Tokyo, so every weekend I'd get on a train and go to Tokyo. And so I said, okay, so then I stayed there for about a year. So I was in the service for about a little over two years.

MN: Did you ever get to visit Hiroshima?

MY: No. See like the CO that I had there was really good. He knew I was Japanese and he said, "Don't you have any relatives here?" I said, "I do," but I said, "it's like looking for a needle in a haystack." I said, "They're in Hiroshima," but I said, "it's like coming to L.A. and looking for somebody, you don't know how to look for them. No use for me to go there." But he says, "You know, if you want, just make out one report for payroll and you can go... make it out for a week." And he gave me the option to go but I figured it's no use going, I don't know where to look, so I never went. But this lieutenant, he was really good.

MN: When you first landed in Japan, did you land in Yokohama?

MY: Yeah.

MN: What was your first impression of Japan?

MY: Well, you're in an army camp there, so it's nothing like that. But once I got to Tokyo I sort of looked around and gee, it's just like a big city. 'Cause when you first go to Japan you go to this Camp Zama, everybody goes there first I guess. And it's just like army camp, but once you get out in the city it's just like any other big city. Big tall buildings and stuff. And then I had these friends that was in Tokyo that had been there and they were signed up as civil service workers after they got out of the service, so they were still there. And first thing, you think, gee, you don't have any yen so you're going to have to go buy some cigarettes and go take it out and sell it on the black market. And my friend, when I went to see him, I said, "Hey, I'm going to go buy these cigarettes. Where can we sell 'em?" "Oh don't worry about money," he had a whole bunch. He had a satchel full of money. "Oh, here, take whatever you want," and he gave me a couple of bundles of whatever so I never had to buy on the black market.

MN: Did you see a lot of orphans in Japan?

MY: No, I never noticed that. I guess there were because when I'd go from Yokohama to Tokyo, the train stations, a lot of people, destitute people, and I used to think, gee. So I remember one Christmas when I had bought a bunch of candy and as I would go from the station, after I got off the train, I'd see these kids and I'd give 'em something. Oh, you should see the smiles they give you. It makes you feel so good. I don't know how much I gave out but it really... you'll never forget the experience like that, 'cause when you're in a situation like that you realize how destitute some of them people were.

MN: And by the time you arrived in Japan, Yokohama, Tokyo area, it sounds like it was built up already?

MY: Yeah, it had been built up quite a bit. You could see where there had been destruction and things, but basically it wasn't that bad.

MN: And then what year were you honorably discharged?

MY: 1947.

<Begin Segment 27>

MN: Now, years later you connected with a lot of people from the Shonien. Now in the Japanese American community, there's a stigma associated with being an orphan or staying in an orphanage. How did you feel about being in the Shonien?

MY: Originally you sort of feel... I don't know... you feel like you're inferior maybe. But as I got older, I realized, man, I'm a regular person. I mean, they ain't no better than I am. And just because I lost my mother and I didn't have a father, that's no stigma. And I realized yeah, they're no better than I am. First you may feel like that when you go out into the community, but because of the Shonien, I was really thankful that there was such a place.

MN: What are some of the reaction that you get from other Shonien people you meet?

MY: One of the friends that I met... this goes back years ago 'cause my younger brother and he both, they were real close. But when he was talking to some people, he'd ask them if they ever heard about Shonien and he was proud of the fact that there was Shonien that he could tell 'em about. And I thought, yeah, that's good. I mean, he was proud of the fact that he was in Shonien. And I've seen a lot of people that since Shonien has been left, and there's only one person that I know that doesn't want to be associated with Shonien, and that's a girl that I used to see at the bowling alley. Years ago I used to bowl quite a bit, and I used to see her at Holiday Bowl and I'd say, "Hi, Sachi," and she didn't want to be associated with people from Shonien, so I thought, gee, too bad I mean, she's the only one. She's the sister of this bully that used to be at Shonien. [Laughs] To me it was no loss, but she's the only one I know that was ashamed of the fact that she was in Shonien. I figure it's not your fault that you're there. Just be glad that there was such a place.

MN: I've asked my questions. Do you have anything else you want to add?

MY: No, I think I've said pretty much what I wanted to now.

MN: Do you think the community should recognize Mr. Kusumoto?

MY: Oh, definitely. I think as far as I'm concerned he was the greatest Japanese of all. If it wasn't for him, there would be hundreds of us that didn't have a place. Because I was there for about ten years and every couple of years I guess it would change... different people would come. And if there wasn't such a place, where would they go? So I know that in my mind he was the greatest Japanese person that I know of. I mean, there have been others like Mr. Fukui because he established a mortuary. But I know there are other people that contributed to the Japanese society, but as far as I'm concerned he was the greatest Japanese.

MN: You have this very extraordinary memory of the Shonien staff.

MY: No, I remember all of them.

MN: You remember Ei Yoshinaga?

MY: Yes.

MN: And she is the sister of Aiko Yoshinaga Herzig?

MY: Yes.

MN: Can you share that story how you met with Aiko?

MY: Well, Aiko Yoshinaga Herzig was very active in this redress movement and she was giving... I think there was a forum that she was giving a speech about the redress and things. So when I went, I took my wife I said, "Let's go see," 'cause I want to hear and we were sitting in the second row and she sat right in front of me. So when she got through I tapped her on the shoulder and I says, "Do you have a sister named Ei?" And she looked and she couldn't believe that somebody would remember her sister. This was not too many years ago. You figure this is 2011 and I don't know how many years ago, but when I knew her sister it was in 1932. So she looked, she couldn't believe somebody would know her sister. I said, "Yeah.