<Begin Segment 22>

SY: So just getting back a minute to the JACL and their stand on gay rights. Have they taken a stand on gay rights?

PS: Oh, yeah, back in '94 they were the first ethnic organization to come out in favor or in favor of gay marriage, and it was my understanding that at the national convention, Norm Mineta was very influential in causing us to support that, equal marriage.

SY: So is there anything that you feel needs to addressing by the JACL today? Are there any outstanding issues that you feel --

PS: Well, that's one. I think we need to get on board with Proposition 8, but I think more crucial is to do what the Japanese American Historical Society led by Iku Kiriyama is about getting people to talk with one another, getting generations to interact and that one crucial issue of course is the LGBTQ issue, crucial, I mean, it could be most helpful and most difficult too. But I think times have changed now. You look at the media and it's all over the media so it's pretty hard to avoid and I think the tide is positive for making social change and it's encouraging. So my original theme was this year because of Don't Ask Don't Tell being overturned, President Obama signed the bill, that we should take the cue from that and look at how we can overturn Don't Ask Don't Tell in our communities. It's going to take some work, we need some input. I think the most important input as always comes from the young, it doesn't come from the parents or the grandparents, it comes from the young. It's up to them to tell us how we should handle this. Do we want to be asked? Would we rather tell? How do we create the climate where asking and telling can take place? I think that's the crucial thing that we need to tackle.

SY: So your role in all of this is to just raise the issue. Is that what you feel? I mean, doesn't it warrant getting organization? Would you like to see something formed that you could work with? Or are you just doing this on your own kind of because you think it's important?

PS: Well, yeah I'd like to see something happen. I don't quite know which direction this will take but I'd like to see some progress. And that meeting in November, I think, November 5th, should be a good one. I talked with at that meeting with interesting fellow, Riku Matsuda, transsexual. He has an hour program on KPFK every Monday night at eight o'clock. I intend to listen to him. Interesting guy. I was so impressed because he's come through it so well. To face the kind of flack that he's faced and yet to be so... to lack bitterness but to be so, I'd like to say Christian in his attitude, so these people have said some very terrible things to him but he's willing to forgive.

SY: Is he a Japanese American?

PS: Oh, yeah, he's hapa.

SY: Oh, he's hapa, interesting. There are several Japanese Americans I know of who are transsexual.

PS: You know him too?

SY: Well, I don't know him but I do know someone else.

PS: Oh, really?

SY: Yeah, Michael Yamamoto.

PS: Yeah, he mentioned Michael Yamamoto. Yeah, I know his story. He used to be a roommate of my, Marion's brother-in-law at UCLA so that's how we found out about what happened.

SY: That's a very difficult --

PS: Talk about courageous people, but you know, yes, it's courageous and yet they gain a great deal from it, too. I mean, they do it for themselves basically so that they can live with themselves and hold their heads high, but they're doing it for other people too because this Riku that I just mentioned, looks up to Michael Yamamoto or Mia Yamamoto. And so we need more people like that to come out, people like George Takei. I mean, people who have some stature in the community plus everyday people, you don't have to be George Takei just people to take a stand.

SY: Clearly... it's funny because I think of you as one of those kinds of people that is willing to take a stand, it's not always easy and you don't have a lot of doubt about a stand once you've taken it.

PS: Yeah, right.

SY: You feel it's important enough that that's... so you can look back on your life with satisfaction.

PS: Yeah, and the older I get the more I'm willing to let it all hang out. I mean, I got nothing to lose.

SY: And your family goes along with it?

PS: Oh, yeah.

SY: They're very supportive.

PS: Yeah, except for my older daughter who goes to a conservative church but you can't win 'em all.

SY: That's true. And I think that's been another highlight, I mean, another key part of your life. You've been around people and you can't win 'em all.

PS: Yeah, so you just go.

SY: Well, I sort of think that's a nice place to end. Thank you very much for this.

<End Segment 22> - Copyright © 2011 Densho. All Rights Reserved.