Densho Digital Archive - Mary T. Karatsu Interview

<Begin Segment 1>

SY: Today is August 24, 2011, and we're at the Centenary United Methodist Church in Los Angeles and we're talking to Mary Karatsu. I'm Sharon Yamato and Tani Ikeda is the videographer. So, Mary, let's start with talking a little bit about where your parents were from.

MK: My parents emigrated from Okinawa, Japan, many years ago. Do you want to hear about what happened? Where we settled and everything?

SY: Well, actually I'd like to go back a little and talk a little bit about why your father came to this country. Do you remember, do you know anything about how he came?

MK: Yes, my dad came quite early and was working on the farm. I'm trying to recall some of the things that I had heard in the past. I know my sister has covered this a lot. (...) He was working for this man, Mr. Miyahira (who) said he had a daughter that probably would be a good wife to my father but there was a big age difference. But then seems like my dad always had money and all so I think that he called her over and they got married.

SY: And so that's how your mother came here?

MK: That's how my mother came here.

SY: And your father's name was?

MK: Kamehachi Tamaki.

SY: And your mother's name?

MK: Hana.

SY: So she did not know him at all when they were in Okinawa?

MK: No, word of mouth I guess from her father.

SY: I see and she didn't even know the person that sort of arranged the marriage, his friend that he was working with, right?

MK: No, that was the father, my grandfather I guess it would be, and that was his daughter that he was giving to my dad.

SY: Right, okay so your mother came over... your father never went back to Okinawa to meet her? She just came here?

MK: Yeah, she came.

SY: Came here and they were married here.

MK: I guess there were several that came at that the same time.

SY: I see. So then when they came here they both worked as farmers?

MK: Well, at that time (due to) the alien land laws back in 1912, Japanese could not own land. So they leased ten, fifteen acres out in Covina and so it was like a truck farm where they (grew) vegetables and then every evening I guess they call it truck farming because the truck would come and pick it up and take it to the market.

SY: Right, so he basically settled in a certain area and then started having a family?

MK: Right.

<Begin Segment 2>

SY: And then tell me a little bit about your family then.

MK: I'm the third of six children. I have two older sisters and then me and then a brother, sister, brother. So we all grew up in the Baldwin Park, Covina area, went to school there.

SY: And so how many of you were born before the war?

MK: We were all born.

SY: All born before the war.

MK: Right.

SY: Now I understand so your two older sisters and you were the third girl, right. And your two older sisters have Japanese names, right?

MK: Yes, Sachi and Aki.

SY: I'm wondering why they named you Mary?

MK: I think they said that the doctor named me.

SY: The doctor named you, really?

MK: Because after that everyone had English (names), George, Dorothy and Paul.

SY: They all had American names. I see, so there was a point at which they changed over. You said you were born in Covina.

MK: Baldwin Park.

SY: Baldwin Park.

MK: We lived in Covina but I guess the hospital must have been in Baldwin Park. My birth certificate says Baldwin Park.

SY: I see, and what year was that that you were born?

MK: 1924.

SY: Okay, so you and your oldest sister was how much older than you?

MK: She was about five years older than I.

SY: Okay, and was it unusual for a Japanese family at that time to have so many kids? Do you know?

MK: Oh, no, I think all of our family friends all had five or six children at that time.

SY: Wow.

MK: And always hoping for boys 'cause they're working on the farm, they wanted to have boys.

SY: Just for that reason.

MK: I'm sure my dad probably must have been very disappointed when three girls came right off the bat. [Laughs]

<Begin Segment 3>

SY: Okay so, Mary, let's go way back and if you could tell me your earliest memories of your childhood. I mean, what you remember from the very...

MK: That goes back many, many years.

SY: Yeah.

MK: I guess I was always lucky because my mother really stressed education. She wanted to make sure that we went to Sunday school, I mean, we all went to public schools of course but then it seems like every time Sachi and Aki were working on the farm I got to go to some school event. But I remember that very distinctly and I used to participate in any sports that I was able to participate in. And my mother she was an amazing lady that was able to drive. I think she probably was the only Issei lady who knew how to drive there. And she would take off from her farm chores and take me and my friends to different schools so that we could play these intramural games. So that I remember very distinctly and I was always so grateful to her.

SY: Can you describe your mom a little more? I mean was she an independent woman?

MK: I don't know that she was so independent but I think that I don't know that she was not in a real happy marital relationship so all her focus was on the children. So whenever anything came up she was right there helping us. I remember when even (if) she had that language barrier but she was able to, whenever the PTA had anything she was right there helping.

SY: That's really nice and your father then what kind of --

MK: Well, he was a typical Issei man, it was up to Mama to take care of the kids but he provided okay for all of us as best he could. But I guess his way of showing us that he really cared about us was that weekends sometimes we'd go to cowboy movies or he would take us to the corner drug store to buy ice cream cones, that type of thing, strictly things like that but not any really close, close relationships.

SY: So you're real close to your mom then?

MK: Yeah, we all were.

<Begin Segment 4>

SY: Now I know there was an incident -- I think you were fairly young -- with one of your sisters and I'm wondering if you can talk a little bit about that?

MK: My younger sister, Dorothy, she was about a year old I guess and she was at home when she went out the front door and my dad was backing up the car. She was just there at the wrong time and he ran over her leg and so for many years even today she has suffered from that. But her attitude has always been so great too but the thing that comes to mind with her is that this Caucasian couple, we used to have a stand, a strawberry stand, they used to come every week and buy vegetables from us and they used to see Dorothy there very... they just felt so sorry for her so they took her to Dr. McDowell who was their best friend and he made all the arrangements for her to go to Children's Hospital and have many, many operations over the years. So she just lived with them. I don't know how we could ever repay them for their kindness.

SY: So she actually left your family? Your parents said it's okay for this?

MK: Well, of course they didn't know what to do but then they weren't able to take care of her so they said well, for a short time and it turned out to be many years until the time of evacuation.

SY: Right, so do you remember still seeing her?

MK: I was only a couple years older than her so I don't remember that much but I do remember going over name of the people were Lanphears, going over there and I just envied her because she... they just treated her like a little princess and the best food. Mrs. Lanphear was the best cook and she used to make these angel food cakes. I can remember funny things like that. But it was... we thought she was living the life of Riley but actually she suffered a great deal. I don't know how many operations (she) had. They just took good care of her.

SY: So she had a lot of medical care for this.

MK: And then they made sure that they came (over) at least once a week so that she would keep bonding with our family.

SY: Oh, how nice.

MK: But after a while Dorothy got to the point where she just was so involved with the Lanphears and their twin sons there that were much older that she just felt that she was part of their family.

SY: I see, wow, that's an amazing story.

MK: Even at the time of evacuation (when) she was in rehab, some kind of... she had just had an operation and they said when the rest of the family was ready to go to camp, they said that she didn't have to go. But the day before they were going to leave Pomona Assembly Center, here comes this ambulance, brings her up to the assembly center and just literally dumped her off there.

SY: So they literally picked her up in the hospital and brought her to meet your parents?

MK: Exactly, to this day I think she has blocked so much of this out of her mind -- but my older sister remembers a lot of this. And I think... because she had no real relationship with my folks by then and because she couldn't speak any Japanese. So it was a very, very traumatic time for her I know.

SY: Wow that is just amazing. And the Lanphears, how did they feel about it?

MK: Oh, they tried everything to try to keep her. They went all up the chain of command and promised one thing but it never worked out that way. They were just heartbroken I know.

SY: Wow, that's just amazing.

MK: You just don't find people like that anymore.

<Begin Segment 5>

SY: So you grew up in Covina. Can you talk a little bit more about what you remember from your childhood from before the war? Did you help on the farm?

MK: Yeah, whenever there was a job that I could do. I guess I wasn't too much of farm person. I was always out looking for something else to do, that I remember. But we all had to do our share but I do remember going to Japanese school every Saturday. And that was a good time for us to meet with other Nisei kids in the area.

SY: So Japanese was your first language though?

MK: Well, until we started school of course then after that seems like we completely forgot. I mean my Japanese now is almost nil.

SY: So Japanese school actually helped you with your Japanese then?

MK: Well, at that time yeah, but I think it was more of a social education because I sure don't remember any of the kanji or any Japanese, I have a hard time speaking Japanese now. But I do remember the wonderful bento that my mom made those rice balls and meat. I remember all the kids I went with and I remember the senseis. Mostly I guess they probably spoke English too.

SY: Right.

MK: But I remember Japanese school very well.

SY: And how about your regular school? Do you remember going to elementary school?

MK: Yeah, we went to West Covina grammar school. We walked a mile every day, mile and a half I guess back and forth and then right into Covina Union High School from ninth grade on. Those were good times for me anyway because I was able to participate in all the sports and I just felt I was accepted in some of those clubs.

SY: So it was sort of social clubs and athletic clubs?

MK: Right.

SY: And primarily what was the ethnic makeup of your high school?

MK: Well, I think that it was mostly Caucasian at that time. I know there was just one black girl and I didn't even know what Jewish meant at that time but there were very few, mostly Caucasian and then all of us that were raised on Japanese farms. There must have been ten, fifteen families there.

SY: I see, so those were all the kids from all the farmers went to the same school.

MK: Right.

SY: And did you hang out a lot with them?

MK: As I recall most of my friends were Caucasian when I was going to high school because I think I was the only one that stayed after school for those activities amongst the Nisei kids.

SY: And you had someone that was kind of a mentor to you.

MK: During this time the Nisei, we would get together at Japanese school but then this Caucasian lady, Hazel Roberts, we called her Aunt Hazel, she and her husband owned a dairy farm there and she just took all of us under her wing. She had no children and her mother was like a schoolteacher and she taught English to our mothers, had little classes for them. And Hazel took, I think from 1929 the older girls in our Japanese group and formed the club then, they were called the Cherry Blossom Girl Reserves. And then my sister was in the second group and my other sister was in the third. I was the fourth tier Cherry Blossom but every week we would go to the Roberts' home, she would teach us how to bake, everything American she taught us how to bake, how to (do everything American)... she took us on field trips too. And now I remember going to the Huntington Library at an early age many times and being exposed to Pinky and Blue Boy at a very early age and looking at the wisteria there, those things still come to mind all the time but she was always there for us, remembered everybody's birthday with cards. Amazing lady and I think she has been a role model to me all these years and so I've thought of her so often. I think it kind of molded my life too when I started having children.

SY: That's wonderful. Now did she also befriend the parents? Was she friendly with your --

MK: Well, she gave milk to all... I think I was lactose intolerant but she used to give milk to all the families, free milk. And whenever any holiday or anything came she'd always have some kind of affair for everybody and she was so proud that we were Japanese. I mean, whenever there was a festival at Baldwin Park I remember always dressing up in kimonos and we'd go around that way and she would expose us and let everybody know who we were. Even at church she just made sure that... she said that we're all God's children but there were a lot of prejudiced people I know even in those days. I probably didn't realize at that time but when I think back now.

SY: So the church you went to, was that interracial?

MK: No, well, I went to... in the morning I went to this Caucasian church, United Methodist and they were all Caucasian. But one of the neighbor ladies down the street took my friend and I, Itsuko, every Sunday we would go there and Mrs. Roberts was there too. But she made sure that she wanted us to be known and be accepted. And then in the afternoons this big yellow bus... Mr. Yokoi from El Monte would come pick all the Japanese kids up and we'd go to Sunday school in the afternoon. I think now it's the Sage Methodist Church, a big church now but Reverend Yokoi and his wife are the ones that started it many years.

SY: So you had a very heavy duty Christian education.

MK: Aunt Hazel was such a strong Christian lady and such an influence on I know my mother.

SY: That was, do you think that was part of, kind of her mission?

MK: Well, it very well could be.

SY: But that's interesting because it's so unusual that she would take in a group of young, strictly Japanese American children, right? And all girls?

MK: All girls, always girls.

SY: That's wonderful, gosh it's just a great story. Did you ever find out what happened to her?

MK: Oh, she passed away.

[Interruption]

SY: I'm just curious what happened when you were all were sent to camp. When the Japanese Americans were sent to camps what reaction did you have from the Roberts family?

MK: Oh, they tried very hard but just couldn't fight the government, they and the Lanphears did all they could do but there was such resentment against all of us at that time that there was nothing they could do. Except she did, I understand, go to visit the camps whenever she could but it got to the point where she could not live in that community anymore so she moved to Carlsbad. And we did go to visit her several times after the war.

SY: So there was a lot of discrimination you think in Covina?

MK: There was discrimination even against her for befriending all of us I know. I'm quite sure she must have felt this but she always fought back. And there was discrimination because in the Covina swimming pool, I didn't think anything of it at that time, but we were not allowed to go in there swimming until I think it was the day before they cleaned the pool from what I understand.

SY: But as a child you didn't think about that but you look back on it and you see it. That's amazing.

MK: Talking about discrimination, my older sister, Sachi, was quite active and did very well in high school and she was sent by the DAR, the Daughters of the American Revolution a highly, highly prejudiced organization, she was sent to Sacramento as a representative for Covina High School so that was a precedent and really made the papers at that time. So I think probably that was the first time they ever did anything like that because even we knew that they were an organization that really didn't want to be associated with us.

SY: How was it that Sachi became such a...

MK: Sachi was, she was a straight A student. She was very quite unassuming but she became president of the girls' league and honor society.

SY: She was stellar.

MK: She was another person that really I looked up to because she helped me a lot along the way, always has.

<Begin Segment 6>

SY: So where were you when you heard about Pearl Harbor?

MK: Well, let me see, that was a Sunday morning and Sachi heard it on the radio but she couldn't believe what they were saying but then... we had a two story house, she ran downstairs and my folks had already heard about it from the neighbors but they didn't know what was going on either. And I remember vaguely Sachi coming to tell me about it but I said, "Where's Pearl Harbor? What's Pearl Harbor?" I didn't even know anything about it.

SY: So your reaction was not terror or fear?

MK: No, it was just, "What's happening?"

SY: And so you didn't get any reaction when you went to school?

MK: Oh, you mean after, of course yeah. I think probably much of that maybe we brought on ourselves. I think we tended to cling more to our own Nisei then because we didn't know what others were thinking. I was in high school then but then it was --

SY: You didn't get any reaction from the teachers? You don't remember reactions from the teachers or other students?

MK: No, not really.

SY: But you stayed within your own.

MK: Yeah, it seemed like we kind of started to stay with Niseis which I never had done before.

SY: Really, wow, and how about... were you able to be involved in any sports activities with other kids at that time?

MK: Well, let me see, that was... by then though I was... I just graduated from high school in 1941 so it was just before then. And I was very active up to that point but then when I graduated then I was lucky enough... Sachi was working with the California Department of Employment then 'cause she had graduated from UCLA at the same time so she had gotten a good job there. And I guess she must have applied (for me) the national youth, NYA, I guess it was at that time, they had that youth program, so I was able to go with her to the Department of Employment just for those few months. And I remember working for the head of the department, I mean the secretary to the head of the department so I really did enjoy that.

SY: And this was between the period of Pearl Harbor and the time that you --

MK: When I graduated and the time of Pearl Harbor. So I graduated in June, December 7th, there's a couple of months there.

SY: Oh, I see so what were your plans? Were you planning to work?

MK: I was planning to go to UCLA but I liked this program so much I was going to put it off until the next semester. And then the war started so there went my dreams to go to UCLA. (When) Sachi was going, she had gotten a full scholarship so during that time I went with her quite often to school and stayed with her at Hershey Hall with her and met a lot of her friends. And it was my dream to go to UCLA.

SY: So then what was your family's reaction to all of this when they heard? Did they have to pack? Did you remember the period of packing up and what kinds of things did they have to do?

MK: Their first reaction was burn everything that's Japanese I remember because all the people around there, they were taking things and if it was made in Japan you got rid of it at that time.

SY: I see. So how did they decide to... what did they decide about the family? I mean, they made a decision about splitting up the family. Were they thinking about Dorothy? What were they doing with...

MK: Well, we figured that Dorothy was safe, she was in the hospital and the Lanphears assured that the higher ups had said, oh no don't worry she'll be fine. This was before we knew about the executive order but then after that when they were told that they had to go to camp my sister and I were able to go to... there was a small window there where we could leave California and so I had an uncle, my mother's youngest brother who had a business in New York City, and he said (he would) sponsor two of us to come out there. So my sister Aki and I were told by my dad that we really should go (...) because Sachi has such a good job, they wouldn't touch the family. So that's when Aki and I left, that was in March of 1942.

SY: So that must have been odd for your mother to decide which two children because you had younger --

MK: Well, it was my dad's decision, that one I know.

SY: And you were how old? And how old was Aki?

MK: I had just turned seventeen and Aki was two years older than I was.

<Begin Segment 7>

SY: So kind of describe then what happened to you when they made this decision.

MK: When my uncle heard about all the problems, he said he'll send fare for two of us to come out there to work in his store and so I remember that day clearly when Sachi drove us to Union Station, Aki and I. We didn't know what we were going. I'm quite sure I was excited because I liked adventure and probably didn't know any better.

SY: Had you heard of New York? Did you have any idea?

MK: I was excited about seeing the Empire State building and all those things, Coney Island. And so we... Aki and I went and I remember that long, long train ride just seeing nothing but corn and wheat fields, acres and acres of that but I don't know how we ever got there because you know we were really country hicks, how we got out of Covina let alone going to Los Angeles and then going all the way to New York City.

SY: And you stayed on this train for must have been days?

MK: Right. It took five days.

SY: And never got off, you just stayed.

MK: Yeah.

SY: 'Cause you didn't meet any kind of problems along the way?

MK: I guess we just stood together. I remember going to the dining car, that I remember doing. And I remember pulling into Grand Central Station, oh, that was quite a feeling there. That huge, huge monstrous station and my uncle met us there.

SY: This must have been kind of scary, you were rather young?

MK: I can't imagine letting any of my kids doing what I did at that age. I mean, I would drive them everywhere but here we were just strictly on our own.

SY: Right.

<Begin Segment 8>

SY: And your mother didn't drive with you to the Union Station?

MK: Oh, she and my dad both did.

SY: And they were sad to see you go?

MK: Oh, of course, the look on my mother's face. But I didn't want her to be sad so I guess I probably put on a show like I usually do and so she said that was one of the hardest things 'cause she thought she'd never see us again. And she didn't have that much money to give us to go. But the only consolation was that her brother was at the other end to meet us.

SY: Now had you met her brother?

MK: My uncle was here... I was quite young when he left. He stayed, he lived with the folks I guess for a year or so. Then he decided (on) going to go to New York and make his fortune. So I'm assuming (I was) about four or five when he left, vaguely remember, but no, he was a New Yorker by then.

SY: And so how successful was he? What did he do in New York?

MK: He had an export/import business, nothing really spectacular but I guess made a good living. And so when we went there, oh, I have to tell you he picked us up in his old woody station wagon and said he had an apartment for us so we went and there's this old four story apartment building. We were on the second floor and the first thing we did we walked in there and there's a bathtub sitting right in the kitchen. [Laughs] And it was a one bedroom place but it was close to his store, walking distance to his store.

SY: So he really left the two of you completely on your own.

MK: Right.

SY: He just dropped you off and you had a little bit of money.

MK: My uncle?

SY: Yes.

MK: No, no, well, he had his business so we knew we were going to go over there the next day and start working for him.

SY: But set up this living situation where you were completely, you and your sister were completely on your own.

MK: Yeah, we were on our own.

SY: So do you remember how you felt that first night with the bathtub?

MK: I just thought it was the funniest thing I've ever seen but then I figured that's New York. But there were some really nice neighbors there, they were all Italian folk and they welcomed us and so I felt really good about that. And then the next day they came and asked us if we would like to be air raid wardens... didn't know what that was but it meant that we get to carry a flashlight and patrol the streets at night I guess in case anything happened on the East Coast. They had no idea what we were going through as far as Japan being at war with us too. I don't think they even knew there was a war going on the Pacific side.

SY: And was this common for everybody to be involved as air raid wardens? Or were you chosen?

MK: Young people, they were all young people.

SY: All young people, oh I see.

MK: Good looking Italian boys, I said yes right away. [Laughs] But we made good friends there.

SY: That's great, you made good friends among the Italians in your building and then you went to work every day at your uncle's?

MK: Right and that was a couple of blocks away on 28th Street and he had an import/export business but he also made a lot of shadow boxes they call them pictures where you put the straw flowers into... now I think about it, it must be very sacrilegious... pictures of Jesus carrying straw flowers and I guess Mother Mary, wherever we thought flowers should go we put flowers. [Laughs]

SY: And he sold them?

MK: They sold well because I guess there were a lot of Italians in that area, all Catholics. They thought they were beautiful.

SY: So he sold mostly to non-Japanese clientele?

MK: Oh, yeah, they were all non-Japanese.

SY: Amazing. And the area that you lived, was it kind of... can you describe the neighborhood?

MK: I would consider it lower eastside, what you would think of lower eastside.

SY: And so was it scary?

MK: No, not in those days. I don't ever remember being scared.

SY: You would be okay going out at night?

MK: I don't know that we would go out that much at night but then the only thing I was scared of when it really started snowing hard and the streets got so slippery just make sure that we didn't fall. Other than that that was just for about a year, year and a half that we did that.

<Begin Segment 9>

SY: And can you sort of talk a little bit -- it was just you and your sister living alone in this one bedroom apartment. Like what did you do? What was your typical day like?

MK: Well, we'd go to work during the day... I don't know if you ever heard of the Horn & Hardart but that was my favorite place, restaurant where they had a lot of cubbyholes where you put a nickel or quarter in and you get your food out that way, I was fascinated by that. But they had good food there and I don't know if they still have that or not but that was a very popular place. But then we started going to movies and then eventually I... well I guess Aki went too... we went to the Japanese 108th Street Methodist Church. And we were the first ones to go there from the West Coast.

SY: First Japanese Americans and it was a Japanese American church?

MK: Yeah, it was a Japanese American church. And they're all New York born and bred Niseis there, didn't feel welcome at all at the beginning. They just did not like the evacuees, but little by little we got to know them.

SY: Do you think it was because you were strangers or just because you were from...

MK: They were wearing gloves and hats and looking so spiffy and we were from the West Coast. But then Reverend Akamatsu who was from I think formerly from Seattle, Washington, he was the pastor there and he and his wife did welcome us. So eventually we just stayed there and then as more evacuees started to come we got very comfortable there -- in fact we started what we call the camp dance down in the basement of the church. And it became the social hub after a few months so I met a lot of West Coast people at that time because they all heard about that church and it was a good thing there.

SY: And this was something you sort of did on your own, you and your sister you just decided there was a church nearby or did your uncle...

MK: Well, my uncle sent us first to the 57th Street Church but it was so uncomfortable for me. They were... I don't know, they didn't welcome us at all. But then I heard about the Methodist church and Reverend Akamatsu so that's when I switched over and it was much better.

SY: Oh, I see.

MK: There's still some, there were a few people from Seattle, well, not Seattle, I remember Mas Toyotome who was head of JEMS, he was going to seminary there and he became a good friend of mine.

SY: So you socialized mainly then with other Japanese Americans in New York?

MK: Yes, in New York.

SY: It was pretty, kind of a closed, as far as your social life, it was a very closed Japanese American community?

MK: Yes, it was. Well, it got better as the West Coast people started coming in but at the beginning we did start to meet New York people. When they got to know us they found out that we were human too so it was better. [Laughs]

SY: Like was it a small group of people? It obviously grew over the years but when you first got there, how many families were there?

MK: You mean at the church, the New York people?

SY: Right.

MK: I imagine there must have been about twenty, twenty-five, it was a small group still 'cause there weren't that many Japanese in New York even at that time.

SY: So it was also a gathering place too for young boys going off to serve in overseas?

MK: Right, because New Jersey was one of the training stations where the 442 left from so we did meet a lot of the guys from Hawaii. In fact, they heard about my uncle's store too so a lot of them came on their furlough so we met, in fact my sister met Ray Nosaka who they became... they fell in love and they got married in New York.

SY: That's nice. Now tell me how was your sister handling all of this? You were always very positive but was your sister as...

MK: She was on the quiet side and not that adventuresome but she was always there for me when I needed her.

SY: So did you two hang out always together?

MK: Well, whenever we went to shows and things like that we'd do things together but toward the end after she met Ray and started... she didn't want to go out, all she did want is to write letters and wait for him to come back.

SY: But by then you had developed a lot of friends?

MK: Yeah.

SY: And these guys who would kind of just... can you describe sort of the scene? What kinds of things did the young people do?

MK: I guess there were the socials but I don't really remember. I didn't get that involved with --

SY: 'Cause it must have been exciting for all the young people then, right? Especially these young men who were going off to --

MK: They appreciated that they had a place that they could socialize and meet other young people.

SY: Do you remember talking to them about camp?

MK: Yeah, well, see, I never went to camp.

SY: But they had obviously, many of these kids who were going.

MK: The first group were all from Hawaii so they had just come over. I guess they were the 100th Battalion that came over first and then the 442 started coming. I not going to camp, didn't have as much to talk to some of the new people but I learned a lot from them.

<Begin Segment 10>

SY: Now in the meantime what was happening with your family back at home?

MK: Well, Sachi was working like I said with the Department of Employment and then I think the WRA or the... anyhow, some group that they had formed to inform all evacuees as far as the timeline was for the evacuation of the West Coast. So she said that she had to give out permits if people wanted to go out of the area that type of thing. And then her friend, Maki Ichiyasu who was head of the YWCA was in charge of getting a group together to go first to some of the camps to set it up. And so she asked Sachi if she would go with her to Poston and so there were a group of them, I think about ten or fifteen people who went on the bus to Poston to set that one up.

SY: All young people.

MK: All young people, right. And so Sachi (went) with the condition that (...) they promised her that the family would all get together -- but they were sent to Pomona Assembly Center.

SY: The rest of your family.

MK: Yeah, the rest of the family. And that's when Dorothy had to join them there and my two younger brothers were there. And then the day before, like I said, when they were going to be sent to Heart Mountain that's when Dorothy arrived just to catch the train to Heart Mountain.

SY: So she never stayed at Pomona? They got her just in time to go to Heart Mountain.

MK: Right.

SY: And then in the meantime Sachi was at Poston.

MK: Poston, right. So we were split three, four different ways, the family was at that time.

SY: Right, and so then how did you keep in touch with them? What did you do?

MK: Sachi used to write but I couldn't write back, I didn't know address so just waited 'cause I didn't know when (or where) they were going... when she left California to go to Poston I didn't know where she was in between. And then I knew that she was at Poston for a while but then every day she's saying, "I'm going to go to Heart Mountain any day now," so it was a real rough time.

SY: And you lost track of your parents?

MK: Right.

SY: Because they couldn't write, they didn't correspond with you?

MK: My mother wrote to my uncle so we got the information.

SY: In Japanese.

MK: In Japanese, yeah.

SY: I see, so you knew that she was at Heart Mountain and that's about it. And then what happened with Sachi?

MK: Eventually I think it took her nine months to... or maybe even longer, for them to okay her going to Heart Mountain. So she did go there and stayed there for a little while and then she was able to by then they were releasing people from camp to go to different areas. So she did come to New York at that time.

SY: I see, and so she joined the two of you and then it was three of you living in this little one bedroom apartment.

<Begin Segment 11>

MK: By then Aki and I went... my uncle he was paying us I think twenty-five dollars a week, all of us, that was lots of money then so we went to look for a new apartment. So we got one on 80th Street I think it was a two bedroom, 80th and Amsterdam, and that was a good beautiful place compared to downtown. But then Sachi came and then shortly after that I wanted to go to camp just to see what it was like so I went to Heart Mountain.

SY: You took a train to Heart Mountain.

MK: That was in 1945, yeah.

SY: Toward the end of the war.

MK: Right, and I think it was 1945 (...) I was able (...) to stay there a week and I asked... I went to administration office and asked them if I could take my brother and sister back with me to New York. I didn't think that was possible but I was just trying to find out what was going to happen. And they said, yeah you can take them so I took Dorothy who was I guess fourteen and Paul who was four years younger... he must have been about ten.

SY: You just picked them up.

MK: Picked them up and took them to New York.

SY: And you were only by that time...

MK: I was (eighteen) and Sachi and Aki they said, "Why did you bring them?" We had no room for them or anything but we managed. I guess I had to be the parent then I enrolled them in school I remember Paul went to PS100 and Dorothy went to Julia Richmond Junior High School.

SY: Do you remember what was going through your mind though because if you had to obviously talk to your parents about it right?

MK: Yeah.

SY: Picking up your two...

MK: I didn't know what was going through my mind, I often wonder myself. But I just couldn't see them just staying there... I was just going to inquire and they told me to go ahead and do it so I had no choice but to bring them.

SY: And they were fine with it, your mother and father?

MK: They wanted to get out too but they couldn't.

SY: They couldn't but somehow you were able to pick up.

MK: The younger ones were able to 'cause I told them they were going to go to school and I don't know how I could be so credible and told that I would make sure they went to school and this and that. But they released them.

SY: Wow, and it didn't take long.

MK: I was scared when I went back (wondering) how we're going to take care of them.

SY: Right, because you not only had to enroll them in school but you had to feed them.

MK: Feed them and house them and everything but they were good kids.

SY: And do you remember what your apartment life was like when they came, when they arrived?

MK: It was pretty crowded but then shortly after that when my uncle said that my folks were going to come out, he rented like a boarding house on Lexington Avenue, there must have been ten rooms or so there and so the purpose was to have the folks run it. And as some evacuees came, they rented and that was a good place for them. And by then George came and Dorothy and Paul, they all went back to Lexington Avenue so the three of us kept --

SY: The apartment. And your mother and father were there by then?

MK: Yeah, they came and my dad ran the... took janitorial work there and my mother did some of the cooking for some of the people.

SY: And so it was really your uncle who made all these arrangements?

MK: Yeah, for the folks to come and they started to work for him there too so it worked out fine.

<Begin Segment 12>

SY: So talk a little bit about your uncle. Did you have a very kind of... did you have any relationship with him? What was he doing there that he was able to sort of take care of all of you?

MK: He had the New York attitude but then he felt very responsible.

SY: He was close obviously.

MK: He took us to a lot of places. He was very close to us.

SY: And to your mother.

MK: My mother, right.

SY: And was he the only sibling?

MK: No, she had two older sisters that were in South America but my mother and uncle I guess they were the closest in age, so they always kept in touch.

SY: That's great. And did he like oversee anything? Did he make sure you were okay or were you sort of on your own that whole time?

MK: I think we were more or less on our own. I could talk to him and ask him for things and he would always come through financially I know he helped us quite a bit.

SY: And he never worried about you or was concerned?

MK: I guess not. Hopefully he had faith in us. He probably thought well, gosh maybe that's the way they're supposed to be acting.

SY: And the younger ones too never had a behavior problem or school issue... issue with school or when they came over and you had to sort of take care of them?

MK: Well, no, I did feel like a parent I think there for a while to make sure that they did their homework and stuff like that but they were both very good students.

SY: They were really kind of on their own too a little bit?

MK: Yeah, they were.

SY: Because did that deter you from having your own life like going out social events and things like that?

MK: Yeah, that time went fast though I think and I don't regret any of that. It brought our whole family together.

SY: Eventually, right?

<Begin Segment 13>

SY: Tell me a little bit about what your reaction was when you went back to camp though. When you saw how they were living, what was your reaction?

MK: I went to see my best friend that I used to go to Sunday school with all the time and I don't know if I had changed or she had changed but we had nothing in common anymore. And I just couldn't believe the living conditions we thought our apartment was bad but to have five, six people in one little unit, that was something else. I guess that probably prompted me more than anything else to make sure to try to get them out of there. I think that I felt like my younger brothers were pulling away because the kids all ate... they didn't eat at the same mess hall and my folks had nothing to say about what they were doing because they were always outside playing. In fact George I think was fourteen, fifteen, he was working in the fire department at Heart Mountain. I don't think they had anything to do but the environment itself was not... all the guys were so much older than he was so I know that concerned me.

SY: And Dorothy, you had never really had a relationship with Dorothy, so how was that? What was that like to be reunited with your sister?

MK: I think she was so thankful to have someone to talk to all the time in English because she was pretty much confined with the folks at Heart Mountain and just speaking Japanese all the time. I think we bonded very fast there and she enjoyed going to school and she met a couple people right away so she had some good friends when she went to New York.

SY: So you never really got any resistance from them, the young ones to go with you?

MK: No, they didn't. I think they were happy to go.

SY: And from your perspective, your life in New York was way better being on your own like that than had you --

MK: Had I been in camp, for sure.

SY: Definitely. It was that much of a difference. It's amazing to me and so your... they developed their own friends once they got to New York?

MK: Yes, they did, especially Dorothy, she met a couple of really good friends there.

SY: Did she ever talk to you about this whole adjustment problem with getting back into your family?

MK: No, even today I think she's blocked so much of that from her mind that it's amazing that she turned out the way she did because I don't know, it must have been so hard for her to go through all that. And she of all people, she was on her own to cope with all those things (after) Sachi (left and) not speaking a word of Japanese.

SY: Also so Sachi who had graduated from UCLA who worked in Poston I guess, she must have had a job in Poston while she was there.

MK: Yeah, she was I think in the personnel department or something she was saying.

SY: How did she adjust to New York?

MK: She came to work for uncle (...) right away... in the meantime I got another job after a few months with H.A. Johnson Company which was a baker supply (firm), one of the baker supply houses in New York with headquarters in Boston. But then I became assistant to the president there and so I'd learn so much... oh I had gone also to Merchant and Bankers Secretarial School so I learned shorthand and I wanted to be a good secretary and so I really applied myself. So I went to H.A. Johnson and then called Sachi and she went there too, she went in the finance department though.

SY: So you both managed to get an education on your own?

MK: Well, UCLA was my number one choice but then I (decided) I'm going to be a good secretary. I think the NYA time changed my mind a lot about (that)... I was going to be a school teacher at one time. I had all kinds of thing in mind but I wanted to be a school English gym teacher but then I worked for this wonderful lady at the Department of Employment and I said I want to be like her. And so that's when I went to Merchant and Bankers Secretarial School. Of course nowadays no shorthand, doesn't do any good, don't need it anymore.

SY: But that training was probably really important.

<Begin Segment 14>

SY: Okay, so we were talking about your going to school in New York and enrolling at the secretarial school, so that really enabled you to get your first job then. I mean aside from your uncle's.

MK: Right, my first secretarial job.

SY: What was that like? What was your first job like, well, your first secretarial job?

MK: I was scared I know but then I worked hard and tried to learn what the business was all about and the boss was so nice to me.

SY: So you really didn't encounter much discrimination in New York City?

MK: No, I really didn't. I don't know if I avoided it or what but then I really can't say that I did.

SY: Even though the war was going on how about your friends? Did you ever talk to them about incidences or things that they might have gone through?

MK: No. Well, a lot of them were having difficulty finding jobs there but I think eventually most all my friends ended up with pretty good jobs in New York when I think back on it now.

SY: And how about your sisters? What did they end up doing once they stayed with your uncle?

MK: Aki in '46 left to go back to Hawaii to live. And then Sachi came to work with me at H.A. Johnson and Company.

SY: So you kind of paved the way for Sachi then to work there?

MK: Yeah, I think she probably could have gotten a job. I mean that's really not her field at all but it was, at that time we thought it was a pretty good paying job.

SY: I see. And then were they active in the social life, the same social groups... your social life really centered on this church.

MK: I guess I would say that, right.

SY: That's how you met most of your friends.

MK: But we had other good friends that we met along the way. I know this friend from Salt Lake and we used to do things together, go mostly to shows and plays, things like that.

SY: Mary, you never had trouble finding friends, huh?

MK: Yeah, I'm very fortunate that way.

<Begin Segment 15>

SY: Eventually, though, you met your husband?

MK: Right and George was one of those evacuees. Oh, he just hated that term with a passion but he came to, like everyone else, he came to the Methodist church and we all formed a whole group there. In fact we even started a girls' club out of New York now that I think about it, I forgot what the name of it was but there was a mixture of New York girls and West Coast people.

SY: You don't remember the name. And what was the club? What kinds of things did this club do?

MK: It was a social club I think that... I don't know what we did. I remember meeting... I'm just thinking about that now for the first time and I'm thinking, yeah we used to have a good time. I think it was mostly social though.

SY: And the boys, did they have a club too?

MK: They didn't form there but all the West Coast guys that came were probably in sports before then so a lot of them knew each other. So they formed their own little cliques too.

SY: And did you stay active in sports when you were there?

MK: Yeah, we went to the Church of All Nations every week for swimming and basketball. As a matter of fact we formed the New York Bears, the boys did and the girls had a club too. And we travelled to Boston and to Canada. Now that I think about it we did. We played in tournaments I remember going to Toronto and Montreal and that's when I learned about the Canadian people, their camps that were so different from ours here. Went to Chicago, we weren't good (and) I don't know how we got invited to these different things.

SY: And they were all sort of Nisei...

MK: Yeah, it was a Nisei leagues type that they had here and there.

SY: Amazing. And how many people were in these?

MK: There was about ten of us so we travelled that way.

SY: Ten girls who travelled?

MK: And then the guys went... my brother went with the New York Bears too.

SY: Wow, that's amazing.

MK: But most of the guys that played, they played with some Nisei team before the war so they were all good basketball players and my husband was playing with that group too.

SY: I see. So you kind of got to know Nisei in all these different areas?

MK: Yeah. You're bringing those things back to my mind now. It's been a long time since I even thinking about that.

SY: And so your husband was someone who was just passing through?

MK: Yeah, when he got out of Amache I guess he was just going to go as far as his twenty-five dollars fee was going to take him. So he came to New York and he stayed there.

SY: He stayed there for the duration.

MK: And then he got drafted into the 442 so he went overseas.

SY: So he was in New York when he was drafted?

MK: He had to go back to Denver, I guess, Amache, that's where his draft board was but that's where he went out of. But when he got the notice and then he was sent to Fort Blanding Florida and then overseas.

SY: And what was your relationship with him when all of this was going on? Were you just corresponding?

MK: We were just good friends and then I guess through and just corresponding when he went overseas I guess he started to kind of like me. [Laughs] So then we got married in 1950.

SY: So it was way after the war was over he came back to New York? Did he resettle in New York?

MK: No, he came back to California but I came to California for a short time too and then went back to New York. And we got married at the beautiful Riverside Church in New York City in 1950.

SY: So how much did he write to you about his experience while he was overseas and going through training and all of that? Did he provide much detail?

MK: Not that much. They couldn't write that much, I mean even at that time with mail and all a lot of it gets censored. But afterwards found out a lot of what those guys really went through.

SY: You must have been concerned. Did he express any like imminent danger?

MK: Well, at that time I wasn't that involved with him so it was only after he came back and he was safe and sound.

SY: That you talked about it, I see. So a lot of the guys that you met the ones that were from the West Coast, did they eventually end up in serving or did a lot of them just stay in New York?

MK: The ones that evacuated to New York, some of them were, I guess they were drafted because they eventually went in but not that many when I stop to think of it now.

SY: But Aki's husband, he had enlisted.

MK: Well, he was already in the service.

SY: In Hawaii.

MK: He was with the 100th already, right. They were the first group that went.

SY: So was it that you reunited then with George?

MK: Through mail, I guess.

SY: Through correspondence. And so at the time that he arrived there you were still just with Aki or was the rest of your family there?

MK: When he arrived?

SY: When he came from Amache, when he actually came from Amache.

MK: That was before.

SY: It was just the two of you?

MK: Yeah, a lot of his friends were there too, I remember. He was with the Shamrocks you know the boys' basketball club that was very popular before the war so a lot of those guys came by.

SY: Oh, that was the Shamrocks from camp?

MK: No, before the war.

SY: Before the war. And where did he grow up?

MK: In west Los Angeles, Seinan area, very much where we live right now.

SY: So he stayed close to the guys he grew up with and then they all or many of them ended up in New York.

MK: Right, a lot of them did.

SY: And then after the war, how did that exactly happen? He went back to the West Coast and you decided to go back to the West Coast too?

MK: Well, I came back on a vacation I remember.

SY: So it was just vacation.

MK: Yeah, right. And then I guess that's when he proposed so I went back and then he came back to New York and we got married there.

<Begin Segment 16>

SY: So did you feel at this point that New York was really your home?

MK: Well, I was getting to that point although I did eventually want to come back to the West Coast but I got very used to New York and their ways, the fast pace that we were going.

SY: You stayed there until what year?

MK: Ten years.

SY: You were there for ten years?

MK: Let's see, I went in '43, came back in '50, no seven, seven, eight years.

SY: So as soon as you were married you came back?

MK: Right.

SY: And why did you choose to get married in New York?

MK: Because all my friends were there.

SY: And your family had already moved back?

MK: No, my family was there still.

SY: They were still there.

MK: After I came back here then they all started coming back here.

SY: So it was you who were the first one to move back to the West Coast?

MK: Right. Sachi I think had gone to Hawaii to help Aki when she had her first baby so she stayed there.

SY: And you were --

MK: I was in New York then but then came back to Los Angeles and one by one they all started coming back to Los Angeles so that's where we all ended up.

SY: That's amazing. So your family all eventually wanted to end up back in --

MK: I think we all wanted to come back to California at one time but Aki of course had to stay in Hawaii. And my brother, George, worked for Hewlett Packard for many years and he settled in New Jersey so it's hard for him I guess to come back. We want him to come back and I think he would like to because he's retired now and he and his wife, no children so we'd love to have him back here.

<Begin Segment 17>

SY: And tell me what happened with your parents when they first arrived in New York. Do you remember that? How did they react to this?

MK: I'm sure they were overwhelmed but thank goodness for my uncle. He really took care of them and then when they got this apartment house I think they felt really good about that having a place to stay and a place that they could interact with other people because all the young people started to come and so my mom took them all in. I don't know how many rooms there were but --

SY: She kind of managed this boarding house?

MK: Yeah.

SY: So that was her job?

MK: Yeah.

SY: And your father, what did he do?

MK: He did all the janitorial work so it was good for them to have something to do.

SY: I see.

MK: But I know he was dying though to come back here. He wanted to go back to the farm.

SY: And how long did they end up... they were there for five years?

MK: Close, maybe not that long.

SY: If they came after the war.

MK: They probably came back about '52, '51, '52.

SY: So they were there a good number of years.

MK: And it was good because my brother Paul came back and he took a gardening route so that my dad could have something to do. So he went with him on that.

SY: Once your family was all in New York then how did your, what was the living situation? Did the younger kids end up going back with your...

MK: Yeah, they were in that boarding house, they had rooms there. And then Sachi and I were in the apartment and by then Aki had gone back to Hawaii.

SY: So Dorothy and the two boys were with your parents by then and they stayed in school and got their education. Did your siblings all end up, besides you and Sachi and Aki, did they end up staying in school? Were they able to?

MK: Yeah.

SY: They went through high school.

MK: Yeah, they all graduated high school.

SY: Graduated.

MK: George went special, I don't know, NYU or somewhere. I mean, he learned his trade there and so he got a good job with Hewlett Packard.

SY: And Dorothy, what happened with her?

MK: Dorothy graduated from high school and she took a nurses course. She wanted to be a nurse so that's what she did. She was a nurse for this doctor for many, many years.

SY: Here.

MK: Here in Los Angeles, right.

SY: And your other brother.

MK: Paul, the youngest, went to work for the city and so he just retired recently.

SY: So he had kind of an administrative job?

MK: No, he actually worked with water, was it Water and Power. Well, they took care of the yards here and there I know. I don't know exactly but he was out in San Gabriel Valley way.

SY: So he managed to get this job right from high school?

MK: No, only after he did gardening for a while with my dad. And then I guess after my dad passed away then he applied for this civil service job. He was very... has the benefits now so that's good, that worked out good for him.

<Begin Segment 18>

SY: And your dad, did he have a hard time? He obviously had a hard time working as a janitor.

MK: Yeah, well, before the war he was always in charge type and what he said went, but I think camp life really broke him and so many of the Issei men. So they didn't know what to do, they weren't qualified to do anything in camp being farmers so it was sad to see them deteriorate. But it was good for the women, I guess they got stronger, so I guess there's pros and cons about life in camp for the Isseis. But our dad, we could see that he really had a hard time.

SY: So he never was able to go back to farming?

MK: No, never. Closest he got was to doing gardening.

SY: Gardening. So he was able to do that for very many years?

MK: He lived to be ninety-two, something like that so he lived a full long life.

SY: And he worked as a gardener to the end of his life?

MK: Well, he was just only helping out by then, just to keep him busy.

SY: As long as he was active he was gardening or trying to work.

MK: And they had a little patch in the back yard where he would grow little vegetables and stuff. So I think that was good enough for him.

SY: And your mother never, when you came back from New York and lived... when they came back did she end up working?

MK: Yes, she became a seamstress. She always did sew for us, we had a lot of homemade clothes but she got a job on Wilshire Boulevard somewhere, men's shirt place. So that gave her her independence there too, she made her small spending money and all so she was really happy doing that.

SY: So did she talk about that whole transition?

MK: Never said too much, no she I think she just accepted everything, shikata ga nai attitude always.

SY: And as far as her relationship with all the kids being separated, did that change your relationship with your parents?

MK: No, I think it probably made it stronger. And the relationship they had with all the grandkids, they all just love her.

SY: That's great. So she stayed close really with the family.

MK: She was strictly a family person.

SY: And she eventually retired from working.

MK: She passed away in 2002. She was 101 years old but she went through Keiro, she went through, first the retirement home and then the ICF and then the nursing home.

SY: So she was in Keiro from the time she was in her nineties? Maybe talk a little bit about Keiro, it was a good experience for your family too?

MK: Oh, yeah, I think she participated in a lot of the activities that they had there which she wouldn't have been able to do otherwise. And being in a retirement home she had her own independence there.

SY: I see.

MK: Of course we were always able to go visit and take her places so I think she was very, very happy. At the beginning she didn't want to go in but then she found out it was the best place for her and she didn't ever want to be dependent on anybody, that I know. So she just did her own thing made a lot of good friends there.

SY: I see. That's nice. It was nice that you had that, huh?

MK: Oh, I should say, we were very indebted to Keiro.

<Begin Segment 19>

SY: Now once you moved back to California from New York and you were now married, so where did you settle and what did you and your husband do when you got back here?

MK: He had four units I guess on Tenth Avenue and Jefferson, that's just where the J car used to come and turn around there. But anyhow there were four units there and they were rented out. We took one unit there after we came back, made good friends, Takahashis (and Fujimatas) and his brother, all lifelong friends (...).

SY: So by this time in Los Angeles, what was the atmosphere like in the 1950s when you came back here? Was it open to Japanese?

MK: I felt it was. I got very, very busy I guess raising the kids. My husband worked for the post office for thirty some years before he retired. But I was very fortunate getting a job with the YMCA.

SY: Very early on? After your kids had grown up?

MK: After my kids... the youngest one was in junior high then.

SY: And how many kids did you have?

MK: Three, a girl and two boys.

SY: And when was your first child born?

MK: She was born in 1952 and Rob was born in '55 and Wayne '57.

SY: And so you spent how many years raising them at home?

MK: Well, Wayne was in junior high by the time I went to work for the YMCA and worked for them for twenty-eight years. Started out at the Crenshaw branch and then we moved to the Westchester branch and then I went to corporate headquarters. Because I started out at Crenshaw with John Ouellet who was the young executive there and then he was promoted to Westchester as their executive there so I went with him there. And then went to corporate headquarters downtown eventually became president of the YMCA all metropolitan Los Angeles so I became his assistant there so had a good, good working experience all those years.

SY: That's wonderful.

<Begin Segment 20>

SY: And maybe we should back up a little bit. I want to go back the Y because raising your children... was that a wonderful experience for you? Did you wish you were working?

MK: No, I felt I was working because with my daughter we started the Camp Fire Girls so I was a Camp Fire leader 'til they went to almost high school. So eight years I was a Camp Fire leader for this group of girls, there were about ten or twelve of them. I'm still in touch with most of them to this day.

SY: And now this was an interracial Camp Fire Girls troop?

MK: Well, we had one black girl and one white girl and the rest were all my kids' friends.

SY: So that was sort of outside of the school. She went to a school where it was probably very mixed.

MK: Right, it was. Coliseum Street School at that time became I would say almost seventy-five percent Asian. Everyone started to move into this Crenshaw area. So her friends, amazing, being Sansei, her real close friends are still Sansei kids.

SY: And so when you started this Camp Fire Girls troop, was it just, you just said brought all her friends together?

MK: Yeah, all her class anyway. So we only lived a half a block from the school so everyone, they came to my house after school once a week. And then when my two sons, Rob, joined the Cub Scouts and then Wayne also so my husband got involved in the Boy Scouts. So I had to become a den mother for the two of them for one year before the fathers took over. And at that time (I) also was PTA president for two years so I'm glad I got involved in all those things 'cause I think later on the kids said they really appreciated it so it was kind of nice to know that.

SY: So your volunteer life began with your kids pretty much, although back in New York you did a lot of volunteer kinds of things too, right?

MK: Not that much, I mean that was more for, just for my own sake, just to make friends and things. But over here it was strictly for the children.

SY: For the kids.

<Begin Segment 21>

SY: And did you have, at the same time, were you involved with other social groups?

MK: Well, at that time the 442 club started I think that was probably the very beginning and then became very involved with G Company of 442 'cause there were a group of us here then at that time. So we met socially quite a bit then.

SY: And how exactly did that start? It was just sort of guys getting together?

MK: Yeah. Well, we had the 442 clubhouse at that time so that's when we used to have these annual meetings and different events there. They were quite active at the very beginning when the children were small. We used to have all kinds of socials at the clubhouse. And then of course each company had their own activities and G Company became very, very active.

SY: And that was in the '60s then?

MK: It would be '60s, right.

SY: And it was mainly social.

MK: At that time, well, yeah.

SY: It was just a way for the guys to kind of get together?

MK: I think so, yes. I'm sure that they tried to keep up the legacy, keep it going and that was the very beginning of it.

SY: And at this time, so during this period then your husband must have been pretty involved?

MK: Yeah, he was involved. In the Scouts he was cubmaster and things like that. So we both got very involved in kids' activities.

SY: It's interesting to me that when the 422nd guys get together they tend to talk more about their experiences, is that true?

MK: At the beginning they did not talk about any of their experiences. It's only recently (it seems) like, I guess they're trying to get these oral histories out... then they're starting to talk. But at the beginning I don't remember any of them ever talking about their experiences. George would tell me some things, but then I don't think they'd ever say it out in the public how they used to go rescue the dead soldiers and things like that.

SY: But he did open up a little bit to you?

MK: Yeah, about some of the things that they did over there.

SY: How did you feel when he would talk about it?

MK: I felt that these stories should get out but they didn't want to talk about it. And I noticed that with all the guys when we used to get together I used to ask questions but nobody would ever really (say anything. There are) many stories now that are untold that should have been told many years ago.

SY: And did you feel that it had an impact on your husband in terms of his... how he dealt with things?

MK: I don't know. With Nisei guys it's really hard to tell. I mean, they still have that attitude, (...) the shikata ga nai attitude always comes out I think and gaman, those things really come out in all of them. But I wish some of those stories could be told.

SY: So he never shared about it with the kids?

MK: No, that's why I'm saying that I think we as Nisei parents I think we failed our kids by not getting them involved. I imagine Sansei kids are probably the most ill-informed about what their dads did. They just need to know the story.

SY: Do you think it had any psychological effect on your husband? Did it change do you think the way he related to other people?

MK: That I don't think so.

SY: You never noticed anything.

MK: I never noticed it. He was easy to get along with.

SY: He was the same, the war didn't change him too much as far as his personality. Since you knew him before and then you knew him after.

MK: Right. Maybe some of the guys that went really deep in battle, I'm sure it had to affect them. But I do know that when he used to say that one of his details was going to pick up the dead, I know that that must have... 'cause some of the guys he knew. But still wouldn't talk too much about it even then.

SY: And he was really someone who saw a lot of action.

MK: He started to and then his brother was killed, his younger brother was killed in the battle over there in France. And so at that time if someone in the family was killed they sent them back, the other siblings back. So he was sent back earlier than he was supposed to have been.

SY: So how many months or years did he serve totally? Do you know?

MK: I think it was a couple years. I don't know. I have to look up the records.

SY: But he felt strong enough about it that this group was important to him?

MK: Yes, I think there's certain camaraderie there whether they think or not. But when they tell them they're going to get together the guys come out.

<Begin Segment 22>

SY: So how did you feel having not been in camp and most of the people I imagine you socialize with were in camp?

MK: Lots of times I regretted not going to camp, 'cause sounds like they had a really good time at times. 'Cause when you're sixteen seventeen they had all these camp dances and meet all the other kids your age, things like that. And just have to get up in the morning, no responsibility really. But then other times I'm glad I didn't go to camp, I got a small taste of it when I did go back.

SY: I would imagine that the groups that formed in camp, the social people who became friends then were still friends after camp, was that difficult for you to be among... I mean, did you have trouble?

MK: No, because I go to these Amache reunions, I wasn't in camp but, he was in Amache so they had Amache reunions. I went to a couple of those and I had a great time 'cause I knew most of the people by then anyway. So those reunions are wonderful things for them to do but I don't think they still don't talk about what happened there either, just happy to see one another.

SY: It's just a reunion kind of thing. But even though you weren't there it doesn't make you feel uncomfortable or you enjoy it?

MK: Yeah.

SY: And the people that were your closest friends when you relocated here in the Crenshaw area, they were all people who were in camp?

MK: Yeah, I'm sure most of them were in camp.

SY: But never talked about it.

MK: Not very much, no.

<Begin Segment 23>

SY: So the women, did you have a... were there clubs here that formed for women?

MK: I belonged to the Maharanis, so we used to call them... (...) we adopted a boy from Japan and we used to have all these fundraisers. I remember packing senbei and stuff like that, we'd send money to them every month. I remember his name was Ma-chan and to this day I'm wondering what happened to him. I wish we could trace him. For all we know he could be prime minister or somebody. [Laughs] But we sponsored him for many years.

SY: And this was like young adult women. So it was kind of like all housewives kind of that got together and decided to form?

MK: I think the Maharanis probably formed when the girls were single but by then, when I came in I was married but couple of the friends asked me to join. I was already married then.

SY: And you would get together and talk? What else did they do besides sponsoring?

MK: We used to do social things but most of it was fundraisers.

SY: It was mainly fundraising.

MK: Fundraisers just to have enough money to send to this orphanage in Japan. We did that every month.

SY: Wow, that's amazing.

MK: We still have this scrapbook here about it (and) I would love to... I wonder if there's some way we could trace it.

SY: And really it's sort of a kind of a volunteer group that all the women in it were happy but it was also kind of social group.

MK: Yeah, it was. We did things like having dances and stuff like that.

SY: Oh, you still had dances even though everybody was married.

MK: Yeah, in fact we sponsored dances. (...)

SY: At the time do you remember there were a lot of these clubs?

MK: I'm sure that there were.

SY: All JA women?

MK: JAs are good at that.

SY: Different areas of the city had different groups so it wasn't unusual and you never kind of all did things together. It was more you formed your own little...

MK: Yeah, we'd get together and at that time that's when we socialized and that's it.

SY: That's great.

MK: A couple of the (ladies) like Chris Ichikawa (...) from Go for Broke, we still keep in touch.

SY: And she was an original of one of those groups?

MK: Yeah.

SY: And then the guys when they would have their meetings or the 442 guys, then were the women involved in that too?

MK: Yes, always. I don't think the guys could have a meeting without the women.

SY: So you would be involved in both of those. So you would go to those meetings and then you'd be a part of the Maharanis. And then you did all your kids' stuff and this was all outside of your regular job.

MK: Well, I guess when I was doing Camp Fire and that... yeah, I guess I was working, I was thinking maybe I wasn't.

SY: Part of that time.

MK: Yeah.

SY: So it was a way of... you must have been very busy I was thinking.

MK: I'm thinking now I must have had a messy house.

SY: With your kids, did they... they didn't get involved with all these other social activities, did all these people at that time did they have kids?

MK: They all had their own little groups of friends too. Because they were all were in the same class most of the time, school. Because even now my daughter is always talking about the kids that were still in that group.

SY: Really?

MK: They get together, well now with email and Facebook or whatever, they're closer together than ever and all the guys too.

SY: So they managed to stay in touch with the people you met back in the '60s here.

MK: Yeah, well, it's actually their classmates. I guess my group is mostly gone now.

SY: The people that you were with.

MK: The parents and all.

SY: So did they become lifelong friends then? Or did you lose touch eventually?

MK: You mean with...

SY: People from the Maharanis.

MK: A few of them I'm still in touch with but most of them I think have passed on now.

<Begin Segment 24>

SY: So then after the kids, your youngest was in junior high school, then did you make a conscious decision, "I'm going to go back to work"? How did that happen?

MK: I think someone said that there's an opening at the YMCA down the block so I went down to apply and that started twenty-eight years of YMCA work.

SY: And you basically had these secretarial skills.

MK: That was helpful.

SY: That was helpful.

MK: And the organizational know-how, how to get these... (there were many clubs) as far as the Y was concerned. And Centenary Methodist Church had many, many groups there so I got to know all those people.

SY: I see. But the Y was a very national group. I mean, there was no Japanese American focus to the Y.

MK: No, except with our Centenary group there was.

SY: It was all Japanese American.

MK: Yeah, and they eventually came to join the Westchester group so that's when we became real active.

SY: What were some of the Y activities at that time?

MK: Well, mostly sports, I think most of it was focused on sports.

SY: So you had teams?

MK: Yeah, they played against each other and we also were involved with the CYC, the Community Youth which many of the same kids were involved in that too. And we got very involved with the Red Sox.

SY: So you mean sponsoring a team?

MK: No, my husband's the coach and the kids played. That's CYC, they play against all these different (teams). They had the Red Sox, they had the Giants, they had even to this day they go to Las Vegas to play tournaments. It all started way back then.

SY: And it was all Nikkei, Japanese American kids' basketball?

MK: Sansei kids now.

SY: And it was strictly basketball, right?

MK: Yeah, I guess basketball. In older days it was baseball too but then when the younger kids are involved it's all basketball.

SY: And so I'm not sure how the Y and the CYC were...

MK: They were two different organizations but many of the kids that played in the CYC also played, belonged to the Y groups.

SY: 'Cause that's not true any more is it?

MK: Well, Centenary doesn't have those clubs anymore.

SY: I see, it was church --

MK: Now the YMCA is strictly school clubs that they have.

SY: I see. But at that time it was primarily the sports activities that was fostered in the Japanese kids.

MK: Right, and Centenary had many teams at that time.

SY: I see.

MK: In fact a lot, most of the kids that I know now who were one time involved in some of those sports activities.

SY: I see. And so your job though, talk a little bit about exactly what your job was.

MK: At the YMCA?

SY: Yeah, at the YMCA.

MK: I just worked with the director when I was at Crenshaw and then when he moved to Westchester as executive I went with him there. I was just his secretary and then when we moved down to corporate headquarters which encompasses all the YMCAs, there were twenty-five branches at that time. We were the headquarters there for that and he became president so I became his assistant.

SY: So what was he like? What was your relationship with him like? He obviously trusted you, he took you.

MK: When he started he was a young kid that I think he was twenty-two or something like that, became the executive director at Crenshaw, very bright young man. And we just got along really, really well. And so when I retired in 1993, he retired the following year and he became president of the Weingart Foundation.

SY: Which is a foundation that gives --

MK: Money.

SY: So it's sponsored by Leonard Weingart?

MK: Ben Weingart.

SY: Ben Weingart, sorry. And so his job was to be in charge of this big foundation.

MK: Giving out all kinds of money.

<Begin Segment 25>

MK: And I guess he got so used to me by then that when he went to... I was strictly retired but I used to go and help at Weingart Foundation. But when the... can I talk about the museum? When the museum started forming...

SY: The Japanese American National.

MK: Japanese American National Museum started fundraising. The Weingart Foundation was the first corporate to give a million dollars for that and that set a precedent for the other corporations (and) foundations to come in. So we were really proud about that.

SY: And how did you secure that money, I mean, what were the steps that were taken?

MK: It's all who you know I guess. I knew the board at Weingart. Of course, John Ouellet being the president there he did most of the work.

SY: So you talked to John about hey, we've got this --

MK: Fred Hoshiyama and Florence Ochi came and we all approached the Weingart Foundation at that time.

SY: So you spoke or you presented this proposal to the board.

MK: They approved the million dollars so that's why I was really lucky I got to choose what room the Weingart gallery was going to be down at the museum now.

SY: So it being the first corporate sponsor it was... do you remember the year?

MK: Was it '89, '90?

SY: So the museum was still in the old historical building?

MK: Yeah, right this was the fundraising for the new pavilion but the new pavilion opened in 2000, right, so it must have been just before that.

SY: So now when had you started your involvement with the museum? When did you start getting involved?

MK: George started first and when they were still in the warehouse downtown because I was still working at that time. In 1989 Florence and Fred Hoshiyama asked me to help with the first grassroots campaign that they wanted to do for the museum based on YMCA method of raising funds. And so I helped out in 1989, we were the (...) first group, Westside grassroots campaign.

SY: And what did that involve?

MK: We had a goal of I think it was a $100,000 and we raised $150,000 at that time. So that set the model for all the other campaigns that they conducted throughout the whole (community).

SY: And how did you raise the money?

MK: We went out and solicited funds. We had teams, I think five different... in fact, I have a picture of the original group that I had with me just the other day. And we had different teams and we had good fundraisers.

SY: So you had to approach people on your own that you knew?

MK: I think my biggest thing was to the donor wall, approach them, brand new building and get your name up there for three thousand dollars, five thousand dollars. And that was an easy sell.

SY: So why is it that you took on this job of raising money?

MK: Probably 'cause I don't know any better. [Laughs] No, I really feel it's payback time for me to try to help wherever we can.

SY: But there are many organizations that you could be supporting. Did you choose the museum?

MK: Well, for sure I know that our story has to be told and I just... the museum I think covers all facets and I was hoping that it would cover the military portion of it too and then all the Niseis. Just all-encompassing of our whole story so I feel that it's important that it keeps going that way and I hope that with a new generation we can keep it going.

SY: Did you feel the strain of it based on what your parents went through?

MK: I'm sure that has a lot to do with it because the Isseis are the ones who really suffered so much and it's their story too.

<Begin Segment 26>

SY: Because really, I mean, you have always taken this very upbeat attitude about your own life, that you've been very lucky.

MK: But I definitely feel that way, I think that I have been very lucky.

SY: But they're obviously things about your life that were very difficult or do you feel that way? Do you feel that there were things that because you were Japanese American that...

MK: I'm sure life could've been a lot easier, not just only socially but other ways, job wise maybe but I think all and all just try to do the best we could with it. I guess that must be the Japanese heritage too.

SY: I guess at a certain point after you join, after you started working for the YMCA you took on other volunteer things besides the museum, and do you remember what prompted you to do all...

MK: I guess anytime fundraising, I did it for Keiro.

SY: And how did that start? Was it before your mother became...

MK: I think it was during the time when she was still there.

SY: I see.

MK: And then we, my sisters and I, still try to volunteer whenever we can. I mean, no brainer type of jobs but then at least we try to help if they call us, which is two or three times a year.

SY: So Keiro really is a... I mean, maybe you can talk a little bit about what Keiro does. I mean, do you think that it's going to be an ongoing thing for Nisei to have a place always?

MK: I've been visiting friends there and surprisingly every time I go there I see another Nisei friend that I know. So slowly it's being transitioned into all the patients being second generation, very few Isseis left now.

SY: So a good proportion of them are Nisei.

MK: Yes, it's English speaking now more than before my mother's time it was all Japanese speaking people.

SY: It's a place where they feel comfortable?

MK: Oh, yeah (...)... my friends are saying that it's one of the best things that happened to them. Almost everyone's reluctant to go the first time but then once they get there, especially the fellows I notice, my friend the other day said that, gee I don't have to worry about what I'm going to eat next and things like that. And he says there's always someone there if I want to talk so it's a good thing.

SY: And that started way before you... I mean, how did you first hear about Keiro besides your mom being there?

MK: I guess when they started that fundraiser way back.

SY: Early on.

MK: Right, but mostly after my mother went in there that we became active.

<Begin Segment 27>

SY: So then what other organizations are you... do you feel are important for your time?

MK: Well, right now I'm concentrating on Go for Broke. Want to buy a raffle ticket? [Laughs] But I think that is another thing that is important for... if it wasn't for these guys, the veterans, none of us would be able to do what... you know, a lot of the young people don't realize it but they owe it to their dads and grandfathers for having the doors opened to them for whatever they want to do. They can succeed anywhere like I said. Who would have thought that a Nisei would be third in line to be president of the United States right now? So I think it's important. But that's why I have to make sure our kids know this.

SY: I see, and so the Go for Broke foundation really, it started back with the 442 organization?

MK: After the 442 started first and somewhere along the line the Go for Broke organization came up with that monument there behind the museum.

SY: And your husband and you have been active from the time that it transitioned over to Go for Broke.

MK: Right, and at the same time the wall at the JACC building came up too.

SY: So they managed to --

MK: Yeah, there was a little bit conflict there but then still I think both of them are very important.

SY: And so I guess for you, the importance of the Go for Broke educational foundation now is to keep, is education.

MK: Education, yes, teacher training that's a big program that they have going and it takes funding. And they're doing a lot of oral histories, it's pretty late in the game now but I wish we could have started a long time ago but they have seven, eight hundred oral histories of our vets. But when you figure that there was seventeen, eighteen hundred who were in there, it's a small part of it.

SY: And your husband did he have his oral history taken?

MK: Yeah, but very late in the game so I never brought myself to even look at it yet.

SY: Really?

MK: I wish it was done much earlier when they could remember things.

SY: So did he become more and more able to talk about it as he got more involved?

MK: I guess with the guys toward the end I noticed that they were... at G Company we had (reunions) every year for almost close to thirty years now. And I noticed that every time they'd have a panel, the guys (...) started elaborating on each other's stories and they added on. And so the last few years have been really good but now it's kind of late.

SY: They're starting to forget.

MK: Not only forget, they're not here anymore.

SY: They're not here, that's right.

MK: Just heard the sad news that G Company in Hawaii is probably disbanding because they have nobody to take over the leadership. The main guy there just passed away last year so that's really sad.

SY: Yeah, that is sad. I know you know a lot of people who --

MK: We became really close to all those people because we met every year. And now we know all the children too.

SY: So that was something that continued, the G Company stayed close.

MK: Right, we had these reunions in Las Vegas, it's a good place to have it. People came from Hawaii, oh, we used to have three hundred or so but now we're down to about eighty.

SY: But they still go on.

MK: We've still been doing it. I don't know, we plan one again this next year but we'll see how it goes. But it's the children that are doing it. They want to keep it up now.

SY: I see. So can you talk a little bit about when you husband passed away? Was that a... I mean, did that change the way you felt about how you stayed involved with all of these organizations like the --

MK: No, it seems like I got more involved 'cause I guess I don't know, I didn't take over some of the things he was doing but then I just did whatever I can.

SY: So you both felt pretty much the same about the work that you were doing?

MK: Yes, we supported each other as far as seeing where we could help.

SY: That's really amazing.

<Begin Segment 28>

SY: Okay, so you're also very active in the church still?

MK: Well, we belong to the West Adams Christian Church but we're ready to close down because of the lack of membership.

SY: Is it because the neighborhood is changing?

MK: Well, not only that, it's because we don't have the people anymore and so I think we're just about ready to go into escrow to sell the church now so that is very sad.

SY: And how did you start your involvement with the church?

MK: Well, I used to belong to the Westside Church of Christ but they closed. I hope I'm not the bad one to close all these churches. [Laughs] But anyhow, so went to West Adams because George Sato, I don't know whether you know him but he was the reverend, he was also the manager at Casa Heiwa and Sachi was staying there at that time. They became good friends, he and his wife, Carol. And so we decided well, we'll go to West Adams, (...) I think it was the second time I went there, George, Reverend Sato approached me and asked me would I just help out being a treasurer because the treasurer, (...) wasn't able to do the job anymore. And he said just for a year or so and I said, well maybe for a year. It's been ten, eleven years now and I'm still treasurer. [Laughs] But a good group of ladies there, we had a real successful CWF women's organization.

SY: And your job is raising money for that too?

MK: No, we just count the weekly offering. No, but the women's club have been making bibs and other things for Keiro for, oh I don't know, twenty, thirty years now. And so that's one thing yearly that we would do for them. But as far as the church goes --

SY: So, it's the same families who have been involved all these years?

MK: Yes, right, and zero growth because of that. All the children have moved away but now the young people, it's amazing, there's about five or six of them have come back to help us try to wind up everything. And so they've taken over as far as the sale and everything, they're going to be taking care of that that is a good thing.

SY: So they feel it an important part.

MK: Right, they still... they were all Sunday school kids at one time so we call them the kids now.

SY: So as far as their religious education, was that important? Is that something that's always been important to you? It's a Christian Methodist church, West Adams?

MK: (...) I've always been Methodist until I went to (Westside) Church of Christ. (West Adams) is a Disciples of Christ. I figure one church is as good as another as long as they teach the same thing, right?

SY: And why do you find the church to be important to you?

MK: I think it still goes back to Aunt Hazel in those days and she instilled in us so much about being good people. She didn't say good Christians but just being good people and good people that go to church. So I think that probably has a lot to do with it and I just felt all my life I had to go.

SY: So it's not so much the religious part of it in terms of --

MK: I'm not a real good student of it, I'm sorry to say, but just the idea there is a spiritual thing there that I think that I need anyway.

SY: So the importance of... it is amazing to me the importance that you place on how you say giving back. Almost to the point where that becomes your life is giving back. So is that...

MK: Yeah, now that you say it.

SY: Is that something that --

MK: I always feel it, it was given to me I should pass it on.

SY: You think that that started with this Hazel, do you think that whole idea of giving back, or was it your mother? How did you come to place such an importance on that?

MK: It must be a combination. I think in my own mind I just came to that conclusion. I've been fortunate.

SY: But is it something that because you have always been very active in Japanese American organizations, always been involved in some sort of volunteer thing, do you think that it has some sort of --

MK: Cultural significance? Yes, I think so.

SY: So all the women and all the people you've been involved with over the years, they feel a similar...?

MK: I'm sure in the back of their mind everybody, all Nisei have, I think our parents all taught us the same thing.

SY: So Nisei in particular you think?

MK: Nisei, yes. 'Cause no matter who I talk to they all say the same thing. My parents always say shikata ga nai so they have to just grin and bear it.

SY: Right, but not everyone... or do you feel like a good portion of the people you know volunteer as much as you do? I mean not everyone does that. I don't know what makes they people who do that different.

MK: That I don't know. I try to get people involved. It's my fault if I can't get them involved and if they're not involved.

SY: Yeah, 'cause your strength is really fundraising it sounds like it.

MK: Sounds like it, doesn't it now?

SY: And what's your secret? How do you do that?

MK: Well, now that I think about it, I ask the same people in my family and I imagine they hate to see me coming nowadays. Maybe I won't have any more friends to pass it on to. [Laughs] No, but I think I keep telling myself I'm not doing it for me, I'm doing it for Go for Broke, for the organization. That's the only way I can ask people.

SY: And the response you get reflects that.

MK: Yeah. And most people say thank you for doing it, probably better you than me type of thing.

SY: And you never feel like you're overdoing it?

MK: I do. Lots of times I do when they overlap especially.

SY: So then you have to back down a little?

MK: Yeah, I do. But if the opportunity comes I'll pounce on it.

SY: Just kind of closing up, what's your life like today? So you obviously still are very busy doing all these things for Go for Broke and tell me about what you do at the museum now.

MK: Well, now I've slowed down quite a bit now because these old legs don't want to stand for any length of time.

<Begin Segment 29>

SY: Over the years, what was your role at the museum?

MK: At one time -- can I say it -- I did get the (Miki) Tanimura Outstanding Volunteer Award but that's because I chaired the making of two cookbooks there, for there, was a big fundraiser there. And I headed several committees there.

SY: And the Tanimura award is the top volunteer award. And it's given to a volunteer every year for the past...

MK: Probably past twenty years now.

SY: And then you still had other jobs at the museum besides that? Besides doing the cookbook so what other kinds of things do you do for the museum?

MK: Well, let me see, like I said, the cookbook was one thing I think that was really good. I chaired the committees for dress code, that type of thing.

SY: Dress code?

MK: Don't see it too much now but then at that time when we first started we had a dress code.

SY: Among the volunteers or among the staff?

MK: Volunteers.

SY: I see.

MK: And then I was on events and recognition committees and that type of thing for different volunteer recognition events, whatever the opportunity came up I had a chance to do it I would do it.

SY: And this was after you retired that you started doing all this work?

MK: Right.

SY: And ended up taking up how much time of your...

MK: Well, I became a regular Friday volunteer. We'd go all day but meetings in between sometimes I'd go once or twice a week. But for over twenty years I've gone every Friday, I think just about every Friday and still continue to do that. And now we have tour groups, the school tour groups that come in and most of the time they're 100 plus kids that come in. We teach them origami or show them around some of the exhibits and all so there's still plenty to do. I love to work the front desk there because that way I can see people as they come in, so I volunteered to do that a couple hours during the day.

SY: So that's a big part of your week and your life too. And then what exactly are you doing now for Go for Broke? What kinds of things are you doing?

MK: Well, like I was saying, they need funds so we're selling these tickets for opportunity drawings so I'm just going out trying to do what I can (...).

SY: And you're obviously good at it.

MK: No, I don't know about that. I have a lot of friends... or ex friends.

SY: You know a lot of people, Mary, you have a lot of people to go to for, to sell these tickets.

MK: Try to go to different people for different organizations.

SY: And how about your family? Do you still stay really in close touch with most of your family?

MK: (Yes), we still have... like my sisters Dorothy and Sachi we're just within three blocks of each other so hardly a day goes by that we don't contact each other there. And then on George's side we have a very close knit family too so I'm very fortunate.

SY: So you have lots of people.

MK: Good support.

SY: And Sachi, I want to mention Sachi, your sister Sachi actually wrote a book about your family.

MK: Right.

SY: And how did that come about?

MK: On her eighty-eighth birthday my daughter published, I guess we call it self-published a book. So many people have asked for it we've had to re-order several times now.

SY: And what kinds of things did she talk about?

MK: She talked a lot about her camp life. She had a lot of experiences when she went to camp and she talked about the family too.

SY: Right.

MK: She should keep writing. She has a lot of short stories. A couple that were in the L.A. Times so she had some good stories there. I think she writes very well.

SY: You have a creative side to your family.

MK: She took a creative writing class so that's when she started.

<Begin Segment 30>

SY: And your children are all...

MK: I'm proud of them. They're all doing well.

SY: You put them all through school and so they're all living in different parts of the city?

MK: Well, my daughter lives in Dallas, Texas, but they have a condo here in Huntington Beach so I see them about once a month and then my son is director of the Rancho Cucamonga Libraries there and my other son works as a chemist down in Santa Clarita so they're all doing okay.

SY: And do have you noticed that they have the same value of the importance of volunteering?

MK: Sometimes I kind of doubt that but when I ask them to buy something, they'll buy tickets and things. I think my daughter would really get... she can get really involved in something (but) she is in Texas I know (she volunteers for) different types of things.

SY: Not so much the Japanese American story?

MK: No, right.

SY: And do they ask you about that? Do you talk much about to them about that?

MK: I think they get more and more interested now 'cause when they call they ask where I am and so I have a chance to say what I'm doing. But I don't know, I think the young kids, they live in a different world than we do. Oh, I must say that I have a brand new great grandson.

SY: Great grandson.

MK: Great grandson.

SY: So it's your...

MK: Granddaughter's.

SY: One of your son's...

MK: My daughter's daughter.

SY: Your daughter's daughter's son.

MK: I just had to mention that.

SY: So the family is growing and what would you like, how would you like the Japanese American story, what would you like it to be after you're gone? What would you like to see in terms of community, all of the things that you are involved with?

MK: I just hope that the organizations continue to grow, if not grow, at least tell the story because it's going to get lost and I think it's part of history here, we need to have everyone aware of it. Especially our own children, I think it's so important for them to get involved in this and I will tell them buy this tape. Get involved, kids.

SY: And hopefully your great grandson will get to know about you through this.

MK: It's amazing. I have one grandson who is interested in all of what I'm doing. I'm pretty sure he is, and I think more so than (my) children.

SY: Skipped a generation.

MK: Yeah.

SY: That's good so you have to keep talking, Mary.

MK: They're all hapa kids but you know, they're proud to be Japanese too.

SY: That's great. Well, thank you very much I think that was a wonderful ending to this.

MK: Thank you.